clickable cockpits, what's the appeal?

[BraveSirRobin]

28 minutes ago, Enceladus said:

Wow, you don't understand the fact that I was just being rhetorical in my statement.

 

lol  Go ahead and explain how your statement was "rhetorical".  This is an open book test, so you'll be allowed to Google what a rhetorical statement is.

[Eisenfaustus]

10 hours ago, Enceladus said:

Back in May 2017 if you asked the devs where they were going after BoK, they would probably still have said Pacific. If you asked them where they would go if they couldn't do the Pacific, they would most likely say that they would go to an area with planes that most people would be familiar with -- late war Western Front. If you asked them their thoughts on doing a module dedicated to making 10 playable tanks and made to higher standards than the 2 previous tanks, and rebuilding RoF in this game engine, they would probably say that the former is more likely to happen.

I fear @LukeFF might be correct about the fools errand but I‘ll give it a try as well:

Firstly the devs underestimated the difficulties of a pacific and Jason was very honest about this. Other stuff was stuff is usually declared as „not now - maybe in the future“. Clickpits - if I remember correctly was declared as „not our business model“. So it’s a no instead of a not now. 
And what other WWII sims do have clickpits?

DCS where one warbird costs as much as 8 warbirds plus map plus campaign plus assets plus career.  The only DCS productwith a similar business model is flaming cliffs - without clickpits…

CLOD where the devs - even though now officially- develop the sim in their freetime while the bills are paid by their daytime jobs. You can’t compare that. 
So bottom line - the only comparable product doesn’t have clickpits as well. 
 

and for the record - I like clickpits. They just aren’t worth their price tag to me. So fully agreed with GB‘s approach. 

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Eisenfaustus

[Enceladus828]

On 8/11/2021 at 5:35 PM, AndyJWest said:

You aren't going to get them free. The world doesn't work like that.

Just like we aren't getting Battle of Normandy or any other installment, collector planes/vehicles and campaigns for free, we all have to pay for those if we want them, which I'd pay for because I have fun with them.

 

On 8/11/2021 at 5:35 PM, AndyJWest said:

Paid for how, exactly? 

 

If you want such features, fine. They can be provided, if a developer choses to do so. At the prices the developer sets. 

Being legitimate, and not rhetorical as I was before, if BoS and BoM sales were very poor, then the devs would have packed it up after BoM, but no, the sales have done very well which has enabled them to develop many installments.

All the income that the devs have received over the years have enabled them to add features that they probably wouldn't have been able to, such as Pilot Career (like the one in RoF), pilot physiology, new pilot models for specified nations, as well as female pilot models, drop tanks, AQM, Summer Velikiye Luki map, etc.

Also, sales for BoN may have been higher than anticipated which enabled the devs to make the C-47 flyable and add the Li-2 to the game as well.

 

Overall, the devs aren't going to charge us for making the clickable cockpits an option, how well the future sales are will determine that.

 

Cheers.

 

[BraveSirRobin]

2 hours ago, Enceladus said:

 

Being legitimate, and not rhetorical as I was before

 

You don’t even know what “rhetorical” means.  And they’re not adding clickpits.  Jason has made that quite clear.

[Enceladus828]

10 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

You don’t even know what “rhetorical” means.

Neither do you.

[BraveSirRobin]

5 minutes ago, Enceladus said:

Neither do you.

Yeah, I actually do.  I’d give you a relevant example of a rhetorical question, but it would get me banned from the forum.  In any case, Jason has said that clickpits are not happening.  Anything else is just wishful thinking by you.

[unlikely_spider]

On 8/11/2021 at 7:28 PM, BraveSirRobin said:

  

So you're not getting clickpits.  Sorry.

 

In a few months it will be 2022.  And this game still won't have clickpits.  It's not crazy at all.  Clickpits are a money sucking waste in a game like this.  It does not need them.

 

40 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

And they’re not adding clickpits.  Jason has made that quite clear.

 

20 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

In any case, Jason has said that clickpits are not happening.  Anything else is just wishful thinking by you.

I wonder if this game is getting clickpits

[BraveSirRobin]

Excellent example of a rhetorical question.

 

11 hours ago, unlikely_spider said:

 

 

I wonder if this game is getting clickpits

 

[Sturmalex]

I would like to have clickpits or at least some callable clickable overlay as suggested earlier. 

Since I am using VR for flying only (VR has spoiled pancake mode for me  I just don't get any excitement out of it anymore ) its hard to hit the right key and putting everything on the HOTAS is not ideal either.

[sledgehammer2]

I have seen it mentioned that Great Battles does not have clickable cockpits. Watching some of the aircraft tutorial videos it looks like every lever or switch that is mentioned is movable...  are all the instruments interactive like that? Is it only buttons, switches and knobs that mapped to a HOTAS or joystick? I guess I'm not understanding how so many of the instruments seem reactive when I heard it said there are not fully clickable cockpits in BoX. I hope my question makes sense. As I have said in another post I have been away for quite a few years.

[ACG_Bobo]

There are no clickable controls in BoX. 

All the instruments and switches/buttons/etc. are fully animated. 

Yes you keymap them to JS/KB controls but you can tell the status by looking at it in the cockpit.

Cheers!
 

[sledgehammer2]

That seems really cool... if I remember correctly from the old 1946 game only certain things were actually animated. So BoX is a major step forward in this area? And in so many others too obviously. If the cockpits are fully animated then why are people lamenting that they are not clickable. 

[Hoss]

That's easy to remedy, the P-51, P-47, Bf-109, Fw-190 are clickable in another sim, I'm sure they fly there too, but keep coming back here for the Multiplayer or Single player environments, all the different maps, Campaigns, Careers, PW's campaign generator, Vanders generator, and other things besides playing with all those clickable knobs, dials, and switches. On IL2 your death will be quick and decisive while you fiddle around with switches to arm this, un-cage that, most of us have it mapped to a HOTAS set up and do everything on the fly so to speak...................  I'll bet most over in the other sim have a truck load of assignments on their HOTAS too...........  

    Oh, one more thing, Modules over there cost you an arm and a leg for just one plane (it may have a map to fly on and it may not) You can get the whole "Battle" over here for the same price... oh.. oh.. and at least eight planes to fly with it.. not counting the two collector planes for the premium edition. So, relevant map, relevant planes, all packaged up for your entertainment.  This is an entertaining Sim, I believe the other is called a "Study Sim"..  Studying makes my head hurt...

 

Cheers, and happy flying

Hoss

[LukeFF]

21 minutes ago, sledgehammer2 said:

If the cockpits are fully animated then why are people lamenting that they are not clickable. 

 

There are pages and pages and pages old discussions here about it if you you're interested in some good drama. ?

[=621=Samikatz]

Tbh it feels more immersive to press a button on my throttle versus reaching over, grabbing my mouse, putting a floating cursor on an object while holding my head perfectly still, then clicking it

 

I do wish there were more things we had manual control of (fuel tank gauge indicators in RAF planes, for example) but I would also bind those to my HOTAS rather than clicking them

[PatrickAWlson]

I wish I was not doing it blind, but there is nothing like the feel of actually flipping a physical switch.  I use VoiceAttack for many things (it's a life saver IMHO) but not for things that actually control the plane: gear, flaps, trim, engine management, etc.  For those things I want to actually play with knobs, levers, and switches.

 

One saving grace is that every plane does not use the same controls.  This allows you to overload some of the physical switches.  So Gw190 cowling controls can be oil radiators for a different plane.  It gets confusing switching planes, which is why I try not to switch planes too often.

[sledgehammer2]

3 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

There are pages and pages and pages old discussions here about it if you you're interested in some good drama. ?

OK. I would like to check some of that out. I realize most questions I ask are probably long since beaten to death and I apologize to one and all if I bring up things people are sick of hearing about. I've been away from the IL2 world since like 2010.? As I remember it from being on the old IL2 FB/1946  forum folks around here don't suffer fools gladly. ?

49 minutes ago, =621=Samikatz said:

Tbh it feels more immersive to press a button on my throttle versus reaching over, grabbing my mouse, putting a floating cursor on an object while holding my head perfectly still, then clicking it

 

I do wish there were more things we had manual control of (fuel tank gauge indicators in RAF planes, for example) but I would also bind those to my HOTAS rather than clicking them

 

I think I'll feel that way too once I get a computer and get set up all over again. I guess what I'm saying is that the coolest part of this sim is that when you push a button or something else that's mapped to a HOTAS the control is animated and actually moves in the cockpit or on the panel. I don't remember it being totally that way back in FB and 1946.

[Enceladus828]

I like the option to click things in like in FSX, MSFS 2020 and CloD as it feels more immersive, at least to me. Heck, a lot of things that I do when flying in RL are the same that I do in CloD ?

 

For things such as trim, setting the DG, turning the magnetos and fuel cocks on and off, I prefer to click them to avoid a massive keyboard binding and limit the amount of things assigned to my HOTAS to essential items like firing rockets, cannons, MGs, dropping bombs, flaps, landing gear, pause button, etc., not the things listed above. 

Back in 2018 my friend loaned me their VR headset for a week because they were into VR games and I tried it out on IL-2 GBs as it was the only game I had at the time that was VR compatible. When I was flying it was like I was a blind person trying to feel around for everything... on the keyboard. There were instances where I had to pause the game (with a button on my HOTAS) and take off the headset to push the key binding for a lot of basic things. Even though it was pretty cool experience, I didn't have much fun with it in the week I had the headset and only flew once more in VR before returning the headset.

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Enceladus

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

The plane startup procedure is automatic,  why need for clickable cockpit?  Operation of basic stuff like  engine, flaps, gear, guns etc are usually bind to HOTAS by sim players. There are better things to put resources in for example like pneumatic, hydraulic and electrical failures. 

Edited September 3, 2021 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[IckyATLAS]

I just learned a new word: Clickpit.

Original phrase shortened out of context: Clickable Cockpit

 

After having been filtered through a very long thread it became Clickpit or so those who do not know the full original story think.

 

The original full phrase in context was: The Clickable cockpit request has been thrown into the pit.

 

Now a good question: what is the pit?

 

The pit is an extremely deep hole in the ground in the basement of Jason's house. There is a direct fiber connection from his PC to this pit.?

All the treads like this one, but so many others like for the editor, or requests of all type go directly there.?

And Jason once in a while he shovels some concrete in the hole to ensure nothing may come back out. ?

 

Hope Jason will have a lough at this post ?

Thanks again to Jason and his team, for the very hard work they do, and select what will keep them afloat and going on for many years in the future.

 

[TG-55Panthercules]

Traditional clickable cockpits (that you have to click on with a mouse) don't interest me and I understand why the devs don't want to bother with them for GB.  However, it sure would be awesome to be able to operate the cockpit switches/wheels/controls with your hand controllers in VR.  I would pay some serious money for a module that had that capability, but I'm pretty sure that would be a tiny niche market that probably couldn't support the cost of developing that capability.

[Gambit21]

1 minute ago, TG-55Panthercules said:

Traditional clickable cockpits (that you have to click on with a mouse) don't interest me and I understand why the devs don't want to bother with them for GB.  However, it sure would be awesome to be able to operate the cockpit switches/wheels/controls with your hand controllers in VR.  I would pay some serious money for a module that had that capability, but I'm pretty sure that would be a tiny niche market that probably couldn't support the cost of developing that capability.

 

It's not that they "don't want to bother"

The fact is that the legacy code simply does not support it.

 

 

Adding it now even for just the newer aircraft would be a herculean effort and you'd be looking at much more expensive aircraft.

[BraveSirRobin]

1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

 

It's not that they "don't want to bother"

The fact is that the legacy code simply does not support it.

 

 

Adding it now even for just the newer aircraft would be a herculean effort and you'd be looking at much more expensive aircraft.

I think it would require significant changes to the game engine in addition to the changes to each individual aircraft.  Big $$$$.

[AndyJWest]

1 hour ago, BraveSirRobin said:

I think it would require significant changes to the game engine in addition to the changes to each individual aircraft.  Big $$$$.

 

They could probably fund at least part of it by charging people to post in this thread. ?

[Riderocket]

On 8/12/2021 at 11:18 AM, Enceladus said:

Agree, what other modern day flight sim with this level of detail and fidelity (not an arcade game like WT) doesn't have clickable cockpits?

IL-2 GB?

[BraveSirRobin]

9 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

 

They could probably fund at least part of it by charging people to post in this thread. ?

The person driving the clickpit bandwagon is still whining about having to pay for Flying Circus.  It feels like that revenue stream is pretty much tapped out.

[SharpeXB]

On 8/11/2021 at 6:18 PM, Enceladus said:

Agree, what other modern day flight sim with this level of detail and fidelity (not an arcade game like WT) doesn't have clickable cockpits?

DCS: Flaming Cliffs 3

[AndyJWest]

16 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

DCS: Flaming Cliffs 3

 

And of course its upcoming successor, DCS Modern Air Combat, which they appear to still be working on, though they haven't said anything much since the end of last year. "We are shooting for 3rd quarter 2021 release, but latest Q4 2021"

https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/254461-official-news-2021/?tab=comments#comment-4532354

[Fouldespiser25]

Will IL2 ever get a clickable cockpit?  IL2 runs so nice in VR yet is almost completely useless.  Id like to know whether to stop wasting my money on this dead end code?

[GOA_Karaya_VR]

I think that have clickable objects in cockpit will be amazing, but not at the extreme of making VR useless with out it , what i do is mapping every command of the plane with my hotas and some button boxes, and for radiators and shutters, axis directly ( for engine management i use Saitek Throttle Quadrant apart of the main throttle of the plane, for example i use Saitek x52 Throttle wich i use elevator trim and other controls of the surface of the plane. ).

 

Some Vr enthusiast goes directly to a home cockpit projects for their confort, and its a funny hobbie if you really love VR, there are a lot of websites for people that share their home cockpit tutorials and tips.

 

S.

[ITAF_Airone1989]

17 minutes ago, Fouldespiser25 said:

Will IL2 ever get a clickable cockpit?  IL2 runs so nice in VR yet is almost completely useless.  Id like to know whether to stop wasting my money on this dead end code?

It will not, probably never.

In any case I play using VR since a year and I had zero problem.

Joystick Gremlin can help you (set "Ctrl" to an hotas key and you have just double the action that you can do without move your hands), as some keyboard particular key that you can find even blind (space bar, arrows, etc...).

So, at the end not such a big problem.

I also have DCS and clickable cockpit have their disadvantage too: you have to move your hands from the controls, sometime it's hard to reach the correct spot, etc. 

So yes, it could be a little help, but based on the controls you need on IL2 it's absolutely possible to fly every kind of aircraft without clickable cockpit.

[HR_Zunzun]

To me, adding clickpit would be better.

The only problems I see with clickpits are development time (and costs) and, most important, user interface.

The first one is pretty obvious. Developers are very busy fulfilling the other sim needs. No need to add this. It is certain that in ww2 sim is not so essential if you dont aim for the full fidelity sim. And the adding costs are probably against this sim philosophy.

The second one is more tricky to achieve. Mouse click is quite cumbersome in many situations. Although in DCS you will map the combat settings to your hotas and leave the rest to mouse, it is still annoying trying to reach some switches and buttons with the mouse. Thansfully, there are technology that will overcome this. Hands tracking and feedback (when they achieve reliability) will solve it and then it will add a ton in inmmersion.

Regarding the "never" word. I really doubt that 1C, if it remains in the bussines long enough, won´t add it at some point.

[Enceladus828]

On 9/3/2021 at 10:25 PM, AndyJWest said:

 

They could probably fund at least part of it by charging people to post in this thread. ?

We were Never charged by the devs for them to implement features like the Pilot career mode (like the one for RoF), Pilot physiology, drop tanks, female pilots, etc., and they won’t charge us for implementing clickable cockpits.

 

Maybe Eagle Dynamics and Asobo Studios should charge their customers to implement clickable cockpits? Oh wait they don’t  so 1CGS also won’t.

[Guest deleted@83466]

What?…..

[AEthelraedUnraed]

3 hours ago, Enceladus said:

Maybe Eagle Dynamics and Asobo Studios should charge their customers to implement clickable cockpits? Oh wait they don’t  so 1CGS also won’t.

Huh? What do you mean? They do charge their customers for clickable cockpits, that's why these games have their inflated price tags.

[LukeFF]

10 hours ago, Enceladus said:

We were Never charged by the devs for them to implement features like the Pilot career mode (like the one for RoF), Pilot physiology, drop tanks, female pilots, etc., and they won’t charge us for implementing clickable cockpits.

 

Maybe Eagle Dynamics and Asobo Studios should charge their customers to implement clickable cockpits? Oh wait they don’t  so 1CGS also won’t.

 

Sir, this is a Wendy's.

[Eisenfaustus]

10 hours ago, Enceladus said:

Maybe Eagle Dynamics and Asobo Studios should charge their customers to implement clickable cockpits? Oh wait they don’t  so 1CGS also won’t.

A single 109 (without any map or WWII asset) in DCS costs as much as non premium BoK - which has 8 planes, map, assets,  scripted campaign and a career…

 

They charge a lot for clickpits!

[Enceladus828]

If anyone wants to make a strong point about how clickable cockpits are totally useless, then destroy your mouse by running it over with your vehicle or with a ballpein hammer and then upload a video of how you were able to load up the game and a mission, career, campaign, and/or selecting a map, position on the map, which side, aircraft, modifications and weapons, etc. just by using the keyboard.

 

A common statement is that clickable cockpits are only useful for starting up the engine, once that's done it's rarely used; same goes for the mouse, the mouse is only useful for loading up the game and selecting what you want to do, after that it's rarely used.

Based on this common statement, the mouse is completely useless.

[BraveSirRobin]

2 minutes ago, Enceladus said:

If anyone wants to make a strong point about how clickable cockpits are totally useless, then destroy your mouse by running it over with your vehicle or with a ballpein hammer and then upload a video of how you were able to load up the game and a mission, career, campaign, and/or selecting a map, position on the map, which side, aircraft, modifications and weapons, etc. just by using the keyboard.

 

A common statement is that clickable cockpits are only useful for starting up the engine, once that's done it's rarely used; same goes for the mouse, the mouse is only useful for loading up the game and selecting what you want to do, after that it's rarely used.

Based on this common statement, the mouse is completely useless.

Sir, you’re still at Wendy’s.

[Denum]

How much are you willing to spend is the first question.

 

This isn't something that would be free. It would be nice. But... $$$$