Time to solve the invisible object bug

[LachenKrieg]

On 5/17/2021 at 5:29 AM, Monostripezebra said:

I still think that invisible trees are an overall game problem, not only tank.. and they appear to be mostly trees, hight and position wise. They appear primarily in the proximity to forrests and especially if the forrest outline is broken or intermitted (like if those shapes of forrests like cut ins or gaps where made by removing trees but some collision model was not removed)

 

 

What troubles me is that you would think the Developers would have the tools to see and correct these things. I found 3 last night on the BOS map that I will be reporting, but I think it would help the community understand better if the Devs would tell everyone why they are unable to correct this from their side. But your explanation seems reasonable, it obviously has something to do with how the maps were put together,... or not.

[Monostripezebra]

I just recently discovered on a server with the Velkie Lukie map, that there are also other objects.. in the railyard, you often find train car objects that are half sunk into the ground, but their collision silhoutte extends to what would be normal rolling stock hight. So maybe it could also be something like a split in coordinates between object and collision shape (like Z-axis misplacement under the map or so) but I think it would absolutely be merritious and worth the effort to look into, as especially for tank drivers going long distance and then taking collision damage even to an incapacitating level far out after a long drive is something severely hampering player appeal of tank crew online gameplay.. all IL2 would find a lot of benefit, if at least the most numerous (what appears to be the invisi-trees) could be scaled back.

[LachenKrieg]

Yes I believe for the most part, they are trees. If you shoot a visible tree with your coax/bow MG, the debris that flies off is visibly different from when you shoot the ground/rocks, or a building. The next time you hit an invisible object, shoot it with your MG, and you will see the same debris effect that you get when you shoot a visible tree.

 

Regarding x, y, and z coordinates, I believe this is also causing issues. I first reported this when I noticed it about a year ago on the Prokhorovka map. I was bumping into what appeared to be part of a tank bunker in a place it shouldn't be. It was as if the digital image of the tank bunker, and its actual x-y coordinates on the map were misaligned with each other.

[Splinty]

On 4/18/2021 at 5:50 PM, JG1_Wittmann said:

The issue with the invisible objects is annoying.  The real issue that needs to be addressed is the totally unrealistic collision damage model. A tank should suffer no damage hitting an object at 15 kph. There should be no crew injuries. If the devs want to claim this sim is realistic. Then fix the collision and crew injuries.  Also a tank ramming another tank at offrod speed. Should do no damage other than making it impossible to rotate the gun that direction

You.ve never operated or ridden in an armored vehicle have you? Objects of that mass and size hit harder even at relatively low speeds.  I'm not saying the tank will explode or anything. Just that even low speed impacts can damage the tank and injure crewman. Remember there is very little in the way of padding, no seatbelts, and lots of sharp metal edges and hard surfaces to get hurt on.

Edited May 31, 2021 by Splinty

[LachenKrieg]

Yeah, bumping into things/driving over really rough terrain can be very dangerous for the crew. But the damage model in TC is really messed up. Even bumping into things at very low speed can cause serious damage when it likely wouldn't. I was in a Tiger traveling in 2nd gear at full throttle when I hit a tree that knocked me back about 10 feet and caused sever damage to the tank.

[JG1_Vonrd]

6 hours ago, Splinty said:

You.ve never operated or ridden in an armored vehicle have you? Objects of that mass and size hit harder even at relatively low speeds.  I'm not saying the tank will explode or anything. Just that even low speed impacts can damage the tank and injure crewman. Remember there is very little in the way of padding, no seatbelts, and lots of sharp metal edges and hard surfaces to get hurt on.

Maybe so but heavy damage to engine, tracks, transmission? No, the damage model is incorrect and it really affects gameplay. (I haven't had the pleasure to ride in an armored vehicle but I have driven heavy equipment and nothing even close to the game's DM happens when hitting something solid at the mentioned slow speeds... I wakes you up... sure. Let alone Killer Cows and shacks that shouldn't even register ?).

[SCG_judgedeath3]

6 minutes ago, JG1_Vonrd said:

Maybe so but heavy damage to engine, tracks, transmission?

I have damaged a gearbox in a  leopard 2 by hitting a object at around 30 kmh and the radiator fluids...... And in our APC´s detracked a teack and had it damaged and also damaged fuel pipes and cooling fluids. I wasnt popular with the repair crews that day. xD

[LachenKrieg]

Certainly at road gear speed, if you hit something with significant mass you create a real potential for damaging the equipment, and more importantly, killing the crew inside. But it would have to be an incredibly large tree to stop a Tiger at FT in 1st/2nd/3rd gear, let alone do damage.

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by LachenKrieg

[SCG_judgedeath3]

WW2 tanks are more vulnerable than modern tanks and you would be surprised how APC or modern tanks can get damaged by trees or rocks etc if the driver is uncareful and as in my case: far from road top speeds,, and its not just only about mass, several factors play into if you damage compontents in the tank, the armour wont have issues but as we call soft components inside can easily get damaged and if you are unlucky like me then even more often. Seals, plastic pipes like fuel pipes, cooling fluids canisters, tracks pins etc can easily get damaged by hitting swedish oak or pine trees can damage as I found out due to their massive roots and conistens of their wood inside. APC´s that has less and weights about the same as panzer III got even worse damaged in our platoon back in the day, not as bad as getting sunk in a frozen swedish lake that happened to one xD

Tiger tank had a lot of sensitive parts and even more so panther hence driver training was one of the more important trainings for some time and why A and G versions of panthers had slower top speed in an attempt at making less driver destroy the transmission and final drives.

[LachenKrieg]

As you well know judge, tanks are designed to withstand extreme amounts of shock force. Imagine the amount of force of a round from a T34 as it hits the front of a Tiger, which is compounded by an explosive charge.

 

When a 56 tonne steel mass hits even a large tree (soft material), the shock force gets distributed over a larger area then a T34 round, and dissipates quicker as the tree splinters and breaks up.

 

There is so much mass in front of the engine compared to the mass of the tree that internal engine components probably wouldn't even feel a vibration, unless the object being struck has its own significant mass.

 

I am not saying that Tanks don't break down. They break down without even hitting anything. But the point here is the current game mechanic. Having tanks sustain sever damage from hitting a tree as in the current damage model is very unrealistic. This is made even more problematic with some trees being able to just bounce your tank off as if it was made of tin. I am hopeful that the Dev's will get around to this when they have the time, but until they do, it is extremely annoying.

 

If you search long enough, you can find footage of tanks passing through wooded areas/houses/brick walls. The linked video is a nice montage of Tiger footage, but if you don't have time to watch the whole thing, you get a glimpse of what I am talking about at 2:15 in the timeline.

 

 

[L1A1]

The latest update is out, and there is no mention of the damage model for the tanks, nor is there any mention of the invisable object bug, not impressed.

[Kerhuon]

1 hour ago, L1A1 said:

The latest update is out, and there is no mention of the damage model for the tanks, nor is there any mention of the invisable object bug, not impressed.

 

They could update first the store , informing buyers of TC about the FULL content , bugs included .. 

 

 

[ickylevel]

How is it going? Have we heard any words from the devs?

 

Rethorical question.

Edited August 12, 2021 by ickylevel

[super-truite]

necroposting sorry , but I have an idea if some developer is passing by. For mission design purpose it would be useful to be able to chose different times for repairs. On fast pace servers 10 minutes of reparation for tracks is too long while on some more realistic setups it could be pushed higher, same for engine etc. We this kind of options, server admins could chose to set the engine repair time to a few seconds until invisible trees are fixed. It would not be a hack this way because the feature is meaningful to server admins regardless of the invisible tree bug. 

[[KG]Destaex]

I hit a random tree stump today in the Finnish server. But have to admit it's the first time since I started playing again.

[DD_Friar]

I had a bug notification accepted recently for a server setting of "Safe Collisions" which at the moment makes a tank invulnerable but if it works correctly my thinking with this on a server tanks could bump into things without causing damage as a dirty "workaround".

Of course on a mixed server with planes it would also mean that planes could collide with no damage, not good.   

[super-truite]

On 11/6/2021 at 1:00 PM, DD_Friar said:

I had a bug notification accepted recently for a server setting of "Safe Collisions" which at the moment makes a tank invulnerable but if it works correctly my thinking with this on a server tanks could bump into things without causing damage as a dirty "workaround".

Of course on a mixed server with planes it would also mean that planes could collide with no damage, not good.   

This could be an issue even on tank only servers: you could for instance rush down hill through a forest without any risk and attack way faster than logical on paths that would be realistically difficult to follow

[JV44HeinzBar]

S!,

Just an example of the "invisible tree" damage. I finished making a successful attack on the front lines. I'm returning to base and hit "invisible trees" at least 5x while following the river on the Moscow map....Grrr. I did take a little bit of damage from an unseen AT gun (~2.3%), but I was able to eliminate it before it did much more.

 

 

[ACG_Jackman]

46 minutes ago, JV44HeinzBar said:

S!,

Just an example of the "invisible tree" damage. I finished making a successful attack on the front lines. I'm returning to base and hit "invisible trees" at least 5x while following the river on the Moscow map....Grrr. I did take a little bit of damage from an unseen AT gun (~2.3%), but I was able to eliminate it before it did much more.

 

 

River Banks are the worst for invisible walls. Last time I tried to follow a river I just turn back after hitting 4 times every few meters. 

[[KG]Destaex]

13 hours ago, JV44HeinzBar said:

S!,

Just an example of the "invisible tree" damage. I finished making a successful attack on the front lines. I'm returning to base and hit "invisible trees" at least 5x while following the river on the Moscow map....Grrr. I did take a little bit of damage from an unseen AT gun (~2.3%), but I was able to eliminate it before it did much more.

 

 

How can it be % of damage when this is a physics based simulation? What percentage of what was damaged?

[JV44HeinzBar]

27 minutes ago, [KG]Destaex said:

How can it be % of damage when this is a physics based simulation? What percentage of what was damaged?

S!,

Good question. The damage I received from the "invisible trees" is listed in the last part of the screenshot. How this is determined, I have no clue.

 

HB

[Bart74]

Hello Everybody,

Apart of tree problem, i found such problems when driving tank: village wells and specially wells in the middle of the road, they are  like from concrete, always heavy damage recived, or wooden trolleys often seen by the houses, i drove on such trolley and got stuck for good, tank was suspended in the air over such trolley.....

[69th_chuter]

Had a really good mission going, puttering along off road through a clearing ... driver killed by an invisible tree.  Third time today.  I'm getting tired.

[Gibe]

Personally, even if I continue to come to TC, I take more pleasure in another game where you really have to form a crew of 3 to be effective. In addition, we have friendly or enemy infantry with whom we must deal.

[DD_Friar]

There is a server setting of "Safe Collisions" which would be a work around until a solution could be found for this annoying issue (with this enabled there would be no damage when you bash into something, however it would also apply to aircraft, there would bound to be some numptys that will try ramming or not pulling out on a head on) however at the moment there is an outstanding, acknowledged bug by dev, that with this setting players become invulnerable. If this was to be fixed it could help the problem.

Edited February 28, 2022 by DD_Friar

[moustache]

3 hours ago, RTA_Gibe said:

In addition, we have friendly or enemy infantry with whom we must deal.

 

you speak about MG and anti tank gun position?

[Gibe]

Our infantry can signal us the position of tank, anti-tank gun and protect us from soldier equipped with personal anti-tank.

 

Oups !

 

I forgot the anti-tank mines.

Edited February 28, 2022 by RTA_Gibe

[beresford]

A couple of days ago I was 'killed' outright by an invisible tree. First time for that.

[JG1_Wittmann]

I had a very close call yest. I hit an invis obt. A destroyed. Bunker. I was not visually near it but near its inviso hit box.have tipped all the way over and died. This tim. Almost tipped. Then came down upright. Radio operator killed.  Speed was 4 kph. In reverse.  This is all part of the new and "improved"  pilot fragility "fix"   that. And the game does not recognise weight of tanks and planes on the ground