MFG Damper Kit Mod for Crosswind Pedals - Initial Impression

[dburne]

Received my Damper Mod Kit from MFG for my Crosswind Pedals V2 this afternoon.

Milan has a video up now on his website going over installation.

If you are fortunate and already have the Version 3 of his pedals then installation is real easy as it is already set up for it, for Version 2 and 1 of Pedals it is a little more complex, but not too bad.  Probably took me around an hour for total installation, but I also work slowly.

 

Here it is installed and ready to fly. I can tell you just from moving it around with my feet it feels oh so smooth.  The adjusting wheel on the damper itself has around 23 settings, so you can choose several different strengths of dampers for  your own liking. I am sure after spending some time flying with it tomorrow I will get a feel for where I will want it to be. It is hard to describe, but moving the pedals now has sort of a fluidity to it, just a very neat smoothness I guess.

 

I would also note when I ordered the Damper Kit from Milan, I also ordered a " Soft" main spring. I always felt the main spring that came with my Crosswinds back in 2015 was pretty stout. So I also have mounted the soft spring on to see how this all does.

 

Here it is ready to go:

 

 

I will post back later tomorrow once I get some flight time in with them.

My initial impression is I think I am really going to like this mod.

 

Btw Milan has a video up now on his sight covering installation for versions 1 and 2, and also 3. You will definitely need the video.

Most folks will likely have Version 1 or 2 ( Mine are version 2 purchased in Dec 2015), as Version 3 just went into production around the end of 2020.

The MFG software will tell you what version you have also.

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by dburne

[unlikely_spider]

Did you have to supply it with oil before installing?

[dburne]

13 minutes ago, unlikely_spider said:

Did you have to supply it with oil before installing?

 

No. 

[Soarfeat]

Yep, Just got my damper kit from MFG ( Milan ) also. I really like his installation video, I like installing the damper so that it is centered as is shown at the end of his video as an alternate way of installing. Also, noticed some new combat pedals on his video. I imagine these will be coming out soon also from Milan.

Good stuff !!! 

[dburne]

7 hours ago, WWSoarfeat said:

Yep, Just got my damper kit from MFG ( Milan ) also. I really like his installation video, I like installing the damper so that it is centered as is shown at the end of his video as an alternate way of installing. Also, noticed some new combat pedals on his video. I imagine these will be coming out soon also from Milan.

Good stuff !!! 

 

Yeah I was pausing the video as I was working and saw that alternate way at the end but I was already finished at that point, so just leaving it as I have it.

[Varibraun]

21 hours ago, dburne said:

My initial impression is I think I am really going to like this mod.

 

Me too...got them installed this morning, plus added Cam5 and soft spring (based on advice in the other thread).  I have now spent time with it in the Hurricane, Spitfire IX, P-51D, 109 G-2, and the Camel.  I really like the feel of "weight" they provide and the smooth movement.  I think I am flying a little smoother with centering the ball, am a little more precise with aiming, and even taxiing better with the damper. 

 

Of course, it could all be the placebo effect of spending the money and time to install it...but I don't think so.  Bottom line, for me it seems definitely worth the investment. It will be interesting to hear your and others' impressions with some additional flight time.

[Soarfeat]

Just a quick rough photo showing how you can install these so they are more centered and I also installed with the 

damper adjuster "up" and not on the side----- not a big deal, just a little easier to verify the proper direction to adjust

the strength of the damper.  

 

[dburne]

??

Ok so I have spent probably between 6-7 hours with this today.

I give it a big two thumbs up!

 

Initially when I ordered it I thought yeah right, how can this make the great Crosswind Pedals even better?

Well it did. 

First I made a couple of changes, as previously mentioned I always felt the main spring was a bit on the strong side, so I ordered the soft main spring from Milan with this damper kit and replaced my main spring with it.

Also I changed cams, been running the Cam 6 for as long as I have had these pedals, and changed out to the Cam 4.

The soft main spring I turned the tensioner knob in about all the way to get it as stiff as I could. I am liking the Cam 4 but may try out the Cam 5 at some point also.

 

But wow, using these pedals with the damper mod kit installed, using them was just so dang nice. So very smooth, and felt like so much more than just a spring loaded pedal. I ended up with the adjustment knob on the damper turned in like 8 clicks, which is about a third of the way in. I can move the pedals without much effort, and it is such a nice solid and smooth movement. No twitches just an easy very smooth movement. I could see tightening it up more could be beneficial for say helicopters. Looking at the raw values being generated in the MFG software, they do not center exactly perfect every time, but they are close. I put a small dead zone in to compensate for that a little. Plus the Cam 4 does not have a defined center like the Cam 6 has.

 

So anyway that is my thoughts now on this damper kit mod. Does one really need this addition to their Crosswind Pedals? No, not really. However what it does is take these great pedals to an even newer higher level. And for less than a hundred bucks including shipping it is not a bad deal at all. 

I am quite happy that I ordered this kit and I am sure I will be enjoying my newly renovated Crosswinds for many more years. I have already been using them for over 5 years and expect I will never replace them.

Just don't be surprised if you do it if you find yourself wanting to start from parked and taxi to the runway more along with wanting to taxi back to parking after landing. 

 

 

[Soarfeat]

I agree with dburne's write-up above ( very nice write-up at that !!! ). I have used the damper with the V2 Crosswinds currently with the cam #6 that came

originally installed. I believe I have about 18 clicks on the damper adjustment, increasing the damper strength and have my original tension springs fairly loosened and this helps eliminate the little bit of the feel of the detent so that you know it's there but doesn't affect movement of the pedals.

Something else, after taking this apart, since the bearings were exposed I thought it would be a good time to add a little more bearing grease ( synthetic ) to them ,so I lightly regreased them and also used a  very light amount of Nyogel 767A paste on metal to metal pivotal joints. 

Pedals definitely have a much better feel to them for me in that I don't have the tendency to over correct as would happen from time to time. Will this reduce the probability of ground loops in some of the more sensitive planes on ground handling or reduce the possibility of unintentional spins ( as in Camel ) ? This is still dependent on pilotage however as said, the dampers will prevent or at least postpone an accidental extreme movement which can allow you to correct appropriately.  

If you have some extra cash available, I highly recommend this addition to an already great set of pedals. If you are or were a real time pilot I would definitely say get these and crank up the damper adjustment quite a few clicks !!! 

Happy flight simming ! 

 

[Varibraun]

7 minutes ago, WWSoarfeat said:

I don't have the tendency to over correct as would happen from time to time. Will this reduce the probability of ground loops in some of the more sensitive planes on ground handling or reduce the possibility of unintentional spins ( as in Camel ) ?

 

Yes for me - I definitely feel I have more control over the Spitfire and it's notorious ground loop on landing.

[HR_Zunzun]

Thank all for the review.

I thought it wouldn´t be possible to make my crosswind any better but it seems I was wrong.

[=420=Syphen]

I've ordered the damper, softspring and cam #5.  Looking forward to trying these out. Already running the heeless Combat Pedals from Replika Gear and LOVE the heck out of my Crosswinds.  

 

Hopefully the damper will be here soon. 

[dburne]

11 hours ago, =420=Syphen said:

I've ordered the damper, softspring and cam #5.  Looking forward to trying these out. Already running the heeless Combat Pedals from Replika Gear and LOVE the heck out of my Crosswinds.  

 

Hopefully the damper will be here soon. 

 

?

You are in for a treat.

[Varibraun]

On 4/3/2021 at 5:31 PM, Varibraun said:

Of course, it could all be the placebo effect

 

Happy to have confirmation that it definitely wasn't placebo effect for me based on my experience with at the FW-190A last night.  As background, I am flying a PWCG campaign with SP pilots in several different squadrons (right now flying FW190, BF109, P40, Yak1-b & Hurricane).  With my pilot in the FW squadron, I inevitably forget to lock the tailwheel on takeoff whenever I switch back to him after flying other a/c for a few days.  I am rudely reminded when I quickly ground loop as I start to accelerate on takeoff.  I don't think I have ever recovered with the rudders sufficiently to complete the first takeoff when that happens.

 

Well...last night I had switched back to the FW and, of course forgot about locking on takeoff.  However, this time I didn't even realize until the tailwheel was off the ground that I had forgotten to hold back the stick.  It was a wonderfully uneventful normal takeoff. 

 

I am now certain the damper gave me more precise rudder control and kept me from repeating my typical first FW takeoff routine.  So, the mod solves forgetful inattention too! 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Varibraun

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Varibraun said:

 

Happy to have confirmation that it definitely wasn't placebo effect for me based on my experience with at the FW-190A last night.  As background, I am flying a PWCG campaign with SP pilots in several different squadrons (right now flying FW190, BF109, P40, Yak1-b & Hurricane).  With my pilot in the FW squadron, I inevitably forget to lock the tailwheel on takeoff whenever I switch back to him after flying other a/c for a few days.  I am rudely reminded when I quickly ground loop as I start to accelerate on takeoff.  I don't think I have ever recovered with the rudders sufficiently to complete the first takeoff when that happens.

 

Well...last night I had switched back to the FW and, of course forgot about locking on takeoff.  However, this time I didn't even realize until the tailwheel was off the ground that I had forgotten to hold back the stick.  It was a wonderfully uneventful normal takeoff. 

 

I am now certain the damper gave me more precise rudder control and kept me from repeating my typical first FW takeoff routine.  So, the mod solves forgetful inattention too! 

 

?

Sweet!!

 

[hegykc]

16 hours ago, Varibraun said:

I am now certain the damper gave me more precise rudder control and kept me from repeating my typical first FW takeoff routine.  So, the mod solves forgetful inattention too! 

 

You will get the same result on a dampened (extended) joystick or throttle with friction. Nothing in a real WWII aircraft is weightless. Everything is connected to dozens if not hundreds of pounds of aluminum and steel cables. Joystick, throttle, rudder pedals. It all has weight and is much harder to move around than a pc toy on a destkop, and therefore much more precise and stable.

 

That's why whenever you put a real life pilot into a PC sim for the first time, they immediately crash on takeoff. Because plastic space grips on a desktop is nothing like the real thing. With VKB/Virpil extended grips and harder and harder springs/cams it's getting closer. But it's still pretty much weightless around center, unless damping is used.

Edited April 6, 2021 by hegykc

[LukeFF]

I received my damper kit today and just completed installing it (by the way, nice packaging from MFG - thanks!)

 

Anyways, yes, this was well worth the money. The feeling is so much different now, almost like there's a real set of aircraft pedals under my desk. Installation was straightforward as well.

 

[=420=Syphen]

Damper showed up. Took an hour to fly on Finnish for a quick solo sortie.  I like the feel. It'll take a bit to get used to but I am digging it! It really does feel much closer to sitting in a real aircraft.  Next thing you know, I start wondering about a servo drive on the damper setting - tap off the UDP airspeed data and have a slight ramp up so you can feel the force over the rudder.  Hoooo boy.   But hey, it's fun to 'cheese' mega slips at 700km/h with full rudder.  My only nitpick so far, when coming from right rudder through center and onto left rudder, I can feel the damper body click a bit as the ball pivot on the far end settles against the bolt/adapter. Ever so minor click. 

 

Love the product, so hats off to MFG and @hegykc.  Loving this setup.

Edited April 12, 2021 by =420=Syphen

[dburne]

I have not noticed any click with mine so far.

I also have mine mounted same as yours.

Edited April 12, 2021 by dburne

[=420=Syphen]

8 minutes ago, dburne said:

I have not noticed any click with mine so far.

I also have mine mounted same as yours.

 

The only reason it wouldn't is it your ball joints at the end are incredibly stiff. 

 

I lubed mine up with some dry PTFE so the whole damper is free to flow. I used to race AM Supersport and have used lots of highend Ohlins, and GPR dampers over the years. This offbrand Chinese damper was quite stiff on each end so I wanted to make it flow like some other dampers I have.

 

Trust me, I'm not talking some massive audible "CLICK".  It's just a very soft feel through center. You need to be pretty pedantic to let it bother you. 

 

I like the setup.

[hegykc]

1 hour ago, =420=Syphen said:

I can feel the damper body click a bit as the ball pivot on the far end settles against the bolt/adapter. Ever so minor click.

Love the product, so hats off to MFG and @hegykc.  Loving this setup.

 

You are still rocking the combat pedals prototype 001! How are those even in one piece still Not many survived from that first batch.

 

I have about 10 of those dampers, 8 are silent, 2 make the faint click. It's because ball joints have about 0.5mm play in them. It's a 15$ damper so I guess you can't blame the Chinese. At first I thought it was my mounting bracket designs, but it wasn't. There is visible play in the ball joints on some dampers.

 

If you want the final version with a spring tension wheel, more adjustment holes, brake spring adjuster and brake shock mounts, as a thank you gift for being among the first testers, I have left overs. DM me your address and they're yours:

 

And if you can do the programming/code for the motors. I will build you a mounting bracket not only for the damper adjustment, but also for the main axis spring wheel, for some force-feedback action.

 

[=420=Syphen]

31 minutes ago, hegykc said:

 

You are still rocking the combat pedals prototype 001! How are those even in one piece still Not many survived from that first batch.

 

I have about 10 of those dampers, 8 are silent, 2 make the faint click. It's because ball joints have about 0.5mm play in them. It's a 15$ damper so I guess you can't blame the Chinese. At first I thought it was my mounting bracket designs, but it wasn't. There is visible play in the ball joints on some dampers.

 

If you want the final version with a spring tension wheel, more adjustment holes, brake spring adjuster and brake shock mounts, as a thank you gift for being among the first testers, I have left overs. DM me your address and they're yours:

 

And if you can do the programming/code for the motors. I will build you a mounting bracket not only for the damper adjustment, but also for the main axis spring wheel, for some force-feedback action.

 

 

I can do some Arduino programming and likely make it output to a servo, yeah.  I need to look at what is being output by IL2 first. I haven't had a chance to look into it but I'm sure it's straight forward.

[Soarfeat]

On 4/12/2021 at 4:42 PM, =420=Syphen said:

My only nitpick so far, when coming from right rudder through center and onto left rudder, I can feel the damper body click a bit as the ball pivot on the far end settles against the bolt/adapter. Ever so minor click. 

I have found the same thing in using the damper kit from Milan. In looking closely at the pedals when moving from left to right I see that the aluminum standoff insert for the rear "long bolt " that attaches to the bearing move just a tad bit causing this very small click. In my case I do not believe this click to be the damper but the very small

space between the hole for the bolt and aluminum standoff. In watching hegykc video for his Replika's damper mod I notice that when he installed the aluminum spacer he uses, he had to tap it in ( looks like he has the version 1.0 MFG Crosswinds as does Milan in his video of damper installation. So, I was interested in trying out the new combat pedals and decided to support hegykc in his new flight sim business and also see if the tolerance of his aluminum spacer for the damper was a little tighter than the one MIlan was using.  After installing hegyc's combat pedals and checking the aluminum spacer he uses I have the same situation as with Milan's spacer, they both are just a tad too small in diameter for the version 2.0 MFG pedals that I have. In order to reduce this click you " would "  need to tighten the bolt holding the bearing too much and this would prevent proper free play needed for rudder movement and also overtightening could damage the bearing. I also compared the diameter of the head of the original bolt that holds the bearing that goes in this rear drilled hole and it is just a bit larger than the standoff's diameter. So, this is what I found and as was said it is not a big problem at all just an observation.

I still love the damper and applaud the creativity and ingenuity by MIlan and hegykc for supplying these kits and furthering the growth in flight sim gear. 

In regards to the combat pedals by Replika ( hegykc ), I really like them. For me, they could be a bit wider, the balls of my feet are quite wide and overlap the sides a bit.  

--Cheers--

[Asgar]

Been checking Milans website every day since last week. I really want one of those damper kits for my V2 Crosswinds ? 

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Asgar said:

Been checking Milans website every day since last week. I really want one of those damper kits for my V2 Crosswinds ? 

 

Definitely still loving mine.

[[DBS]TH0R]

Been enjoying damper kit on my MFG V1's, also mounted along the center with the rotary on top:

 

 

(MFG "WWII style" vs. the F-16 rests printed by trace from ED forums)

 

While there is a definite difference with fixed wing flying, this completely transforms helicopter flying in DCS for the example. Removal of the stock spring and dialing the damping almost all the way also transforms these pedals into "proper" anti-torque pedals that serve more as a trim than fixed wing pedals (by not re-centering).

 

Highly recommended.

Edited July 26, 2021 by [DBS]TH0R

[Hoss]

On 4/3/2021 at 4:27 PM, dburne said:

??

Ok so I have spent probably between 6-7 hours with this today.

I give it a big two thumbs up!

 

Initially when I ordered it I thought yeah right, how can this make the great Crosswind Pedals even better?

Well it did. 

First I made a couple of changes, as previously mentioned I always felt the main spring was a bit on the strong side, so I ordered the soft main spring from Milan with this damper kit and replaced my main spring with it.

Also I changed cams, been running the Cam 6 for as long as I have had these pedals, and changed out to the Cam 4.

The soft main spring I turned the tensioner knob in about all the way to get it as stiff as I could. I am liking the Cam 4 but may try out the Cam 5 at some point also.

 

But wow, using these pedals with the damper mod kit installed, using them was just so dang nice. So very smooth, and felt like so much more than just a spring loaded pedal. I ended up with the adjustment knob on the damper turned in like 8 clicks, which is about a third of the way in. I can move the pedals without much effort, and it is such a nice solid and smooth movement. No twitches just an easy very smooth movement. I could see tightening it up more could be beneficial for say helicopters. Looking at the raw values being generated in the MFG software, they do not center exactly perfect every time, but they are close. I put a small dead zone in to compensate for that a little. Plus the Cam 4 does not have a defined center like the Cam 6 has.

 

So anyway that is my thoughts now on this damper kit mod. Does one really need this addition to their Crosswind Pedals? No, not really. However what it does is take these great pedals to an even newer higher level. And for less than a hundred bucks including shipping it is not a bad deal at all. 

I am quite happy that I ordered this kit and I am sure I will be enjoying my newly renovated Crosswinds for many more years. I have already been using them for over 5 years and expect I will never replace them.

Just don't be surprised if you do it if you find yourself wanting to start from parked and taxi to the runway more along with wanting to taxi back to parking after landing. 

 

 

Hey db, did you go back into the Crosswinds MFG Configurator and re-calibrate the pedals and brakes?.  Mine get off every once in awhile, recalibrating always fixes it. 

Cheers

[dburne]

1 minute ago, 352nd_Hoss said:

Hey db, did you go back into the Crosswinds MFG Configurator and re-calibrate the pedals and brakes?.  Mine get off every once in awhile, recalibrating always fixes it. 

Cheers

 

Yeah occasionally I do.

[Asgar]

Finally getting my damper on Thursday. Gonna have a weekend full of flying!

[Hoss]

I just watched a video where they are being put on TM TPR pedals too. I think it was Cube Sim doing it

[Asgar]

10 hours ago, 352nd_Hoss said:

I just watched a video where they are being put on TM TPR pedals too. I think it was Cube Sim doing it

The TPR are hydraulic out if

the factory

[Hoss]

8 hours ago, Asgar said:

The TPR are hydraulic out if

the factory

Okay........................................... 

 

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 Seems this damper kit sells like hot cakes on MFG site, out of stock very fast. Well, placing an order nevertheless.

Edited August 30, 2021 by LLv34_Flanker

[Drano]

20 hours ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

S!

 

 Seems this damper kit sells like hot cakes on MGF site, out of stock very fast. Well, placing an order nevertheless.

If you're a fan of these peds as I am you're in for a treat. I was an early adopter of Replika's version and it adds a whole new layer of precision.

[javelina]

My "kit" will be delivered this Wed.  Looking forward to this mod, really love my MFG's.

[dburne]

7 hours ago, javelina said:

My "kit" will be delivered this Wed.  Looking forward to this mod, really love my MFG's.

 

You are in for a treat!

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

Just ordered the damper kit for my V2 pedals

[Nadelbaum]

Received my damper kit on Friday, installed over the weekend (very simple task when following Milan's video) and already loving the new set!

[dburne]

3 hours ago, Nadelbaum said:

Received my damper kit on Friday, installed over the weekend (very simple task when following Milan's video) and already loving the new set!

 

Congrats!

Yep still absolutely loving mine, they totally redefine smoothness.

[NiiranenVR]

And'eeee - mine Is comin by post Thursday to my door  ??