Why do bats give live birth and birds don't?

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

I mean, Bats are inefficient flyers, can't really glide and carry only a tiny amount of additional weight proportional to their own for any sort of distance.

 

Birds are way better flyers, already carry eggs inside, can carry their own weight and more in additional weight, yet instead of raising one, live, born ready to live (like rabbits) they go the hard and risky way.

[DD_Arthur]

Bats are very efficient flyers judging by the ones who flit about outside my back door at dusk.

Why don’t they lay eggs? ‘Cause they’re mammals Klaus?

 

[Gambit21]

Klause, most bats would destroy most birds in a BFM, knife fight engagement.

 

They are designed perfectly for what they do. Sonar contact, rapid change of direction, precision targeting.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Gambit21

[RedKestrel]

3 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

I mean, Bats are inefficient flyers, can't really glide and carry only a tiny amount of additional weight proportional to their own for any sort of distance.

 

Birds are way better flyers, already carry eggs inside, can carry their own weight and more in additional weight, yet instead of raising one, live, born ready to live (like rabbits) they go the hard and risky way.

Bats evolved from proto-primates as night-time aerial insectivores, and many species adapted to eating fruit and being daytime fliers. They don't need to to the things that birds do to live long enough to reproduce, which is all evolution needs to happen. And since for the most part they are not competing directly with birds for the same resources and habitat niche, they don't need to out-compete the birds in order to thrive. They will only be as efficient as they need to to stay ahead of the extinction curve. Daytime passerenes aren't even on their radar sonar.

Eventually everything evolves into crabs anyway, though, so I wouldn't spend too much time thinking about it.

Carcinisation - Wikipedia

[DD_fruitbat]

Bats are awesome (ahem).

 

Flying rats that think they're submarines....

Edited March 11, 2021 by DD_fruitbat

[Gambit21]

4 hours ago, DD_fruitbat said:

Bats are awesome (ahem).

 

Flying rats that think they're submarines....

 

Plus...hellooooo....BATman.

I don't see any broken, billionaire vigilantes in a hurry to become "Birdman" so there you go.

[Cybermat47]

Bats are mammals, and there hasn't been enough selection pressure (at least not yet) for them to revert back to laying eggs. It's like how early whales still had legs.

 

Birds, meanwhile, are dinosaurs. Their lineage never evolved live birth in the first place, and there's no selection pressure for them to develop live birth.

[Gambit21]

Oh man...

Let's just stick to Batman.

[CanadaOne]

Better than is the dumpster fire of Batwoman. 

[Cybermat47]

19 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

Oh man...

Let's just stick to Batman.

 

Batman is a Homo sapiens, and therefore does not lay eggs.

 

Robin, however, does lay eggs.

[Gambit21]

1 minute ago, CanadaOne said:

Better than is the dumpster fire of Batwoman. 

 

I'm more of a Catwoman guy...but not a huge cat fan. (love dogs)

Dogwoman never made the scene oddly enough and not sure I'd be interested.

[Cybermat47]

2 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

Dogwoman never made the scene oddly enough and not sure I'd be interested.

 

Never made the scene? I'm guessing you don't watch anime.

[Gambit21]

Just now, [Pb]Cybermat47 said:

 

Never made the scene? I'm guessing you don't watch anime.

 

lol - I don't.

Well not since Starblazers anyway.

[CanadaOne]

1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

 

I'm more of a Catwoman guy...

 

 

Aren't we all. 

 

[DD_Arthur]

1 hour ago, [Pb]Cybermat47 said:

Robin, however, does lay eggs.

 

At last! A reason to go and see a Batman movie ?

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

13 hours ago, [Pb]Cybermat47 said:

Bats are mammals, and there hasn't been enough selection pressure (at least not yet) for them to revert back to laying eggs. It's like how early whales still had legs.

 

Birds, meanwhile, are dinosaurs. Their lineage never evolved live birth in the first place, and there's no selection pressure for them to develop live birth.

Yet, Sharks display one way in which live birth could have evolved or can evolve. 

There are purely egg laying sharks, sharks who brood the egg inside for a long time before laying the egg which hatches shortly after laying, and then there are sharks who never lay their eggs, in fact their Eggs can't really survive outside of the womb. The Young break out and the egg shell is excreted like placenta.

 

We Humans are only two steps further, sharing blood with our mother in the womb and the whole milk thing.

 

Birds already care for their young with pre- digested food, and their own body heat. 

Birds already live in a highly competitive environment, against Cats and other Birds, like Cuckoo's. It would only make sense to shed vulnerability by evolving towards shorter brooding and readier younglings.

[Jaws2002]

Bats fly faster and further, specially the ones served in soup, in the Wuhan airport. ?

 

 

Too soon??

Edited March 13, 2021 by Jaws2002

[DD_Arthur]

5 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

Too soon?

 

It's never too soon for a flying bath.  Everyone should have one

 

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

On 3/11/2021 at 10:58 AM, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

I mean, Bats are inefficient flyers, can't really glide and carry only a tiny amount of additional weight proportional to their own for any sort of distance.

 

Birds are way better flyers, already carry eggs inside, can carry their own weight and more in additional weight, yet instead of raising one, live, born ready to live (like rabbits) they go the hard and risky way.

 

Here's my guess: 

Bats are generally built less sturdy than birds.  I would think that bats get knocked around more in their daily activities than birds.  If bats formed eggs and then got bumped enough to break the egg inside of it, there would most-likely be internal damage.  That would probably be detrimental to the health of the bat and be not good for the reproductive cycle of the species as a whole.  

Birds seems to have more fat and/or body muscle plus feathers and they seem to be much better at obstacle avoidance.  They also tend to fly in more open space than bats.  That makes me guess that birds can form eggs and lay them to hatch somewhere with less risk of the reproductive cycle failing.   

[jollyjack]

On 3/11/2021 at 6:08 PM, Gambit21 said:

Klause, most bats would destroy most birds in a BFM, knife fight engagement.

 

They are designed perfectly for what they do. Sonar contact, rapid change of direction, precision targeting.

 

That is almost if you're describing the difference between FC1 and the rest of the IL2 stuff, only them FC1 bats lay Cooper eggs.

 

Pity bats also developed that Wuhan virus as defense against Chinese bat-eaters only. 

The rest of the world as civilized bird eaters has this lot less violent Chicken flu.

 

Now if the devs of IL2 come up with some special new ammo we'll be stuck forever with both ...

 

 

[Gambit21]

1 hour ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

 

Here's my guess: 

Bats are generally built less sturdy than birds.

 

Not the case at all.

 

1 hour ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

 

I would think that bats get knocked around more in their daily activities than birds. 

 

??

 

1 hour ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

Birds seems to have more fat and/or body muscle plus feathers and they seem to be much better at obstacle avoidance.

 

Very much not the case..:in fact the opposite.

 

 

[AndyJWest]

If bats laid eggs, they'd have to rethink their roosting habits. ?

[Lusekofte]

Sometimes.......

A topic should just ... comit suicide 

Precious minutes of my own time was spent reading this   ?

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

10 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Sometimes.......

A topic should just ... comit suicide 

Precious minutes of my own time was spent reading this   ?

It's still a valid question.

 

[Monksilver]

As per Darwin's theory of evolution it is possible that some bats mutated to lay eggs, but any bats that laid eggs whilst hanging upside down in a cave, belfry etc would, thanks to the law of gravity, become extinct very quickly.

[jollyjack]

Moscovium for Bats ??

[[DBS]Browning]

Evolution doesn't come up with perfect solutions, it just works with what it has got and every tiny step of the way has to offer an advantage.

Like @6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann, I suspect bats would do better if they did lay eggs, however there aren't any intermediate steps between live birth and egg laying that would offer an advantage, so it can't happen.

Live birth with a partial shell offers no advantage to the bat, so there is no route evolution could take to birth with a full shell.

 

Bats have a few ways to deal with the weight of their young. Many gestate, give birth and supply milk whilst they hibernate so that they do not have to fly much (or at all) whilst they have extra weight.

Many bats are born able to be left alone in the roost whilst their parents hunt.

Almost all bats only give birth to a single pup to save weight.

Female bats have larger wings to support the extra weight.

 

it's also worth considering that The metabolic rate and power required to fly are similar among birds and bats.

Edited March 14, 2021 by [DBS]Browning

[Jaws2002]

Evolution is just another religion.

Edited March 14, 2021 by Jaws2002

[jollyjack]

Evolution is not Darwinism, but Virism, Covid shows once again how it works right now ... alas. Bats control our evolution too it seems.