Tank Crew Damage Model Rubbish

[TP-Bloomster]

So I have just been killed in Tank Crew whilst playing online, (I spend a lot of time in this state!) but I happened to record this one half way through the engagement as I was hitting two T-34's and getting penetrations but not getting kills, eventually at about 500 mtrs one of the t-34's bailed out but then instantly I blew up as I took a round from the other T-34 who had stayed back at 800 mtr's, I had hit him a few times but again I may as well have been chucking potatoes at them rather than the APCR round.

 

As I recorded it I wanted to see what happened so I logged out of Finnish MP and viewed the film, what I saw has me very puzzled, I blew up with a catastrophic turret removal but when looking at where the round hit, it glanced off the side of the copular. So what the hell is that about?

 

 

[Guest deleted@134347]

something something net code  ?

 

I wonder if it's similar to when 2 planes hit each other head on and one of them explodes whilst the other continues on his merry way. MP latency artifact.

 

edit: granmah

Edited March 3, 2021 by 30speed

[TP-Bloomster]

2 minutes ago, 30speed said:

something something net code  ?

 

I wonder if it's similar to when 2 planes hit each other head on and one of them explodes whilst the other continues on his merry way. MP latency artifact.

 

edit: granmah

 

I take your point but there are just too many instances of strange tank damage behaviour at the minute and I think as per other areas it needs some love. Invisible Objects, Catastrophic explosions, now this, it just feels like its a Beta product not the finished article.

[Guest deleted@134347]

4 minutes ago, TP-Bloomster said:

 

I take your point but there are just too many instances of strange tank damage behaviour at the minute and I think as per other areas it needs some love. Invisible Objects, Catastrophic explosions, now this, it just feels like its a Beta product not the finished article.

 

it's definitely upsetting, more so for the Tank players in MP as your time to get to the action can be considerably longer compared to the airplane pilots. The litmus test (usually brought up by the veterans & devs) is if this can be experienced in SP. If not then it's in the netcode.

[ShampooX]

How do you record your sorties?

[LachenKrieg]

4 hours ago, TP-Bloomster said:

 

I take your point but there are just too many instances of strange tank damage behaviour at the minute and I think as per other areas it needs some love. Invisible Objects, Catastrophic explosions, now this, it just feels like its a Beta product not the finished article.

Considering how much effort they put into making these models as real as can be, I have to believe that bringing more fixes to this part of it is on the books. Here's a shot of happens when there is no catastrophic explosion. Commander was gone, but the rest of the crew was okay.

 

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by LachenKrieg

[TP-Bloomster]

1 hour ago, 11thPanzer_Pete said:

How do you record your sorties?

Ctrl+R to record.

 

I counted 18 hits on the single T-34 of which 4 appeared to bounce whilst the rest either broke up or penetrated. something definitely odd going on, great aspect of the sim but it needs work I think. I could accept 4 bounces but 14 pens are a bit extreme for the tank not to either brew up or be abandoned after the first penetration, it was eventually abandoned probably because there was not enough room left inside the tank because of all my APCR shells bouncing around inside, only the commander/gunner being killed but I took a maximum of 4 hits and blew up by a shot that appears to have missed me completely but as you say this could be Netcode but its not like there were hundreds of rounds flying rather just the single cannon round mostly. Happy to send the Vid to the Devs if you want it.

 

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by TP-Bloomster

[ShampooX]

I hear you.  I noticed that the Sherman is extremely hard to kill often taking 10+ shots from a Panther and still firing back the whole time.  Seems fishy

[ShampooX]

OK great I got record to work, now how to I retrieve my recording?  I looked through the game files but could not locate it.  Thanks again.

[Cybermat47]

2 hours ago, 11thPanzer_Pete said:

OK great I got record to work, now how to I retrieve my recording?  I looked through the game files but could not locate it.  Thanks again.

Go to the records section of the main menu.

[I.JG3_CDRSEABEE]

6 hours ago, 11thPanzer_Pete said:

I hear you.  I noticed that the Sherman is extremely hard to kill often taking 10+ shots from a Panther and still firing back the whole time.  Seems fishy

Yeah, I had a Sherman on the Finnish server 20 meters away front shot (he drove right up on me)  with a P4 AP round. I damaged him but his first shot killed my P4.

[Denum]

Where you shoot matters 

 

Apparently a down hull T34 is exceptionally hard to kill. So if they've snuck into a depression somewhere and are just peeking out... They're super tough to remove. 

 

 

If they drop an HE shell onto your engine deck it's a bad time also.

 

[LachenKrieg]

On 3/4/2021 at 6:50 AM, CDRSEABEE said:

Yeah, I had a Sherman on the Finnish server 20 meters away front shot (he drove right up on me)  with a P4 AP round. I damaged him but his first shot killed my P4.

 

7 hours ago, Denum said:

Where you shoot matters 

 

Apparently a down hull T34 is exceptionally hard to kill. So if they've snuck into a depression somewhere and are just peeking out... They're super tough to remove. 

 

 

If they drop an HE shell onto your engine deck it's a bad time also.

 

You are right, in the wild, the gun being fired and the position/placement/angle of the armor being fired on determines the outcome. But in most circumstances the long barrel L/43 against a Sherman at pointblank should equal fireball unless it was a glancing shot. This is an area that the Devs could really improve on in terms of realism. It would be great if the tanks and guns were made historically accurate in terms of armor/armament, and leave it up to the server hosts to create balance through number and selection available. 

[Fritz_Faber]

Played TC over weeks on multiplayers, have a lot of fun.  Sometimes there are up to 15 tankers plus some pilots interacting with tanks (AAS). TC I guess has the potential to get the most realistic WWll tanksimulation. I tried several tank games, never saw one with such detailed interior and all seats modeled. Maybe steelbeasts, but that is made for training of real tank teams, not WWll, and the landscape is poor.

The love to details is outstanding. The community is still small, but is growing up. I hope the developers are reading  your suggestions and will improve TC soon:

 

1. invisible obstacles often ruines your engine, should be eliminated.

2. damage model has to be worked on. Read some storys about german WWll tankmen, some survived the whole war, their tanks were destroyed several times, they had losses in their teams, but never had these catastrophic explosions which are dominating here. They may happen, but not in such numbers.

3. KI tank behaviour should be corrected, some tanks are hardly destroyable. 5 hits with panther cannon don‘t kill a Sherman at distances below 1.000 m sometimes.

4. Commander should be a half-way-head-hatch-out position during battle.

 

All these points were already mentioned above, looking forward to the improvements by the developer team.

They made a great job so far, and TC is worth to continue that work.

Go ahead please.

Hopefully we will have more tankers soon on different servers!

 

 

[ShampooX]

Good points Fritz

[ickylevel]

On 3/28/2021 at 6:24 PM, Fritz_Faber said:

Played TC over weeks on multiplayers, have a lot of fun.  Sometimes there are up to 15 tankers plus some pilots interacting with tanks (AAS). TC I guess has the potential to get the most realistic WWll tanksimulation. I tried several tank games, never saw one with such detailed interior and all seats modeled. Maybe steelbeasts, but that is made for training of real tank teams, not WWll, and the landscape is poor.

The love to details is outstanding. The community is still small, but is growing up. I hope the developers are reading  your suggestions and will improve TC soon:

 

1. invisible obstacles often ruines your engine, should be eliminated.

2. damage model has to be worked on. Read some storys about german WWll tankmen, some survived the whole war, their tanks were destroyed several times, they had losses in their teams, but never had these catastrophic explosions which are dominating here. They may happen, but not in such numbers.

3. KI tank behaviour should be corrected, some tanks are hardly destroyable. 5 hits with panther cannon don‘t kill a Sherman at distances below 1.000 m sometimes.

4. Commander should be a half-way-head-hatch-out position during battle.

 

All these points were already mentioned above, looking forward to the improvements by the developer team.

They made a great job so far, and TC is worth to continue that work.

Go ahead please.

Hopefully we will have more tankers soon on different servers!

 

 

 

I have 400h on graviteam tactics mius front (considered as one of the most realistic tank games). Tanks have APHE rounds there but as you mentioned explosions are relatively rare. It often takes multiple hits to take a tank out of action, not a single APHE hit like in this game. I'm not an expert in shell physics but I'd imagine the state in which the APHE round is when it penetrates must reduce the 'grenade effet' that it has on a paper. Probably the blast energy can escape through cracks in the shell without necessarily having to fragment stuff.

Edited April 5, 2021 by ickylevel

[M3Grant]

I generally use APHE, all other rounds I've found to be ineffective.

[FeuerFliegen]

On 4/12/2021 at 10:57 PM, M3Grant said:

I generally use APHE, all other rounds I've found to be ineffective.

 

I agree; I think they need to work on APCR rounds, as they seem to be useless in every tank.

[moustache]

maybe i'm wrong, but i have the feeling they rework it... i have less explosion when i shot tank, no?

 

[US41_Low]

I sometimes get 4 tank kills in a life and am not seeing catastrophic explosions now. My experience is from driving panzer iv using aphe against mostly Sherman’s and a few t34s on Finnish.

 

Ive been shooting the tanks repeatedly too in various spots trying to get the explosions. Not seeing them anymore.

[Fritz_Faber]

Sounds interesting, looking forward to test it today evening...

 

?                   ?

 

               

 

[Voidhunger]

5 hours ago, Relic said:

I sometimes get 4 tank kills in a life and am not seeing catastrophic explosions now. My experience is from driving panzer iv using aphe against mostly Sherman’s and a few t34s on Finnish.

 

Ive been shooting the tanks repeatedly too in various spots trying to get the explosions. Not seeing them anymore.

Which tanks? German tanks blew up everytime (Panther, Tiger) or almost everytime (Panzer IV), Panzer III can survive without being blown up and Ferdinand has engine in front so you can survive quite often.

 

Russian tanks can survive multiple penetration hits, without catastrophic explosion. Im seeing this every day since TC launch.

 

 

Im little dissapointed that there were no damage fixes in this new update. Seeing the screenshot of the tiger with penetrated turret multiple times I had high hopes.

 

 

 

Panzer III can survive sometimes. Interesting is that there probably all 3 damage types. Non penetrating hit, penetration and partial penetration.

 

 

 

and Panzer V van survive only when hit in the engine part of the hull (im talking about AP/APHE round)

Edited April 22, 2021 by Voidhunger

[Thad]

On 3/4/2021 at 6:50 AM, CDRSEABEE said:

Yeah, I had a Sherman on the Finnish server 20 meters away front shot (he drove right up on me)  with a P4 AP round. I damaged him but his first shot killed my P4.

 

Darn... that is most questionable. ?

[US41_Low]

1 hour ago, Voidhunger said:

Which tanks? German tanks blew up everytime (Panther, Tiger) or almost everytime (Panzer IV), Panzer III can survive without being blown up and Ferdinand has engine in front so you can survive quite often.

 

Russian tanks can survive multiple penetration hits, without catastrophic explosion. Im seeing this every day since TC launch.

 

 

Im little dissapointed that there were no damage fixes in this new update. Seeing the screenshot of the tiger with penetrated turret multiple times I had high hopes.

 

 

 

Panzer III can survive sometimes. Interesting is that there probably all 3 damage types. Non penetrating hit, penetration and partial penetration.

 

 

 

and Panzer V van survive only when hit in the engine part of the hull (im talking about AP/APHE round)

 

 

*shrug* All I gave was my anecdotal experience. Finnish server doesn't have the Panzer V's or VI's. Only T-34, Sherman, Panzer III & Panzer IV. I've been blown up a couple times in my panzer IV, and I've also survived several hits or had tracks taken out. To me it seems I get far fewer catastrophic explosions than what is stated on this thread, but if what is stated here is correct then I shouldn't really get any. 

[Voidhunger]

1 minute ago, Relic said:

 

 

*shrug* All I gave was my anecdotal experience. Finnish server doesn't have the Panzer V's or VI's. Only T-34, Sherman, Panzer III & Panzer IV. I've been blown up a couple times in my panzer IV, and I've also survived several hits or had tracks taken out. To me it seems I get far fewer catastrophic explosions than what is stated on this thread, but if what is stated here is correct then I shouldn't really get any. 

Dmg model is same as before. No changes.

[moustache]

yep, no chance... sherman and t 34 survive to long 75mm at close range...

[US41_Low]

How close? I've yet to see a T-34 on finnish not have serious issues after even one shot of APHE in the 500-1000m range.

 

Edit: I dunno, you boys can duke it out. I'm all for more accuracy. Just saying my 2 cents is this is the best tank game I've ever played (aside from my driver Hans dying after driving into a horse cart lol).

Edited April 22, 2021 by Relic

[moustache]

less than 800m, I just immediately fired 2 APHE (75mm of Pz V) shells at 400m, overhanging a hill, thus canceling the angle of the body of the t34, it is still alive ...

Edited April 22, 2021 by moustache

[Voidhunger]

Soviet tanks are usually inoperable after one or two penetrating hits ( wounded or dead crew), Im talking again about catastrophic ammo explosions which are exaggerated in german tanks.

[LachenKrieg]

5 hours ago, Voidhunger said:

Which tanks? German tanks blew up everytime (Panther, Tiger) or almost everytime (Panzer IV), Panzer III can survive without being blown up and Ferdinand has engine in front so you can survive quite often.

 

Russian tanks can survive multiple penetration hits, without catastrophic explosion. Im seeing this every day since TC launch.

 

 

Im little dissapointed that there were no damage fixes in this new update. Seeing the screenshot of the tiger with penetrated turret multiple times I had high hopes.

 

 

 

Panzer III can survive sometimes. Interesting is that there probably all 3 damage types. Non penetrating hit, penetration and partial penetration.

 

 

 

and Panzer V van survive only when hit in the engine part of the hull (im talking about AP/APHE round)

 

4 hours ago, moustache said:

yep, no chance... sherman and t 34 survive to long 75mm at close range...

I agree, the survivability is better in Russian tanks in this game. I can't really comment on the Finnish server, but when I play multi-player on my own private server, or when I play AI in the QMB, the Sherman and T34 can take a lot more direct hits then the PzIV, or PzIII. @Voidhunger, how did the damaged T34 in the picture above compare to the damaged PzIII in terms of systems and crew? In my experience, it is rare to see a penetrating shot like that on a PzIII without the match ending. But I see the same damage on the Sherman and T34 all the time. 

[Voidhunger]

4 hours ago, LachenKrieg said:

 

I agree, the survivability is better in Russian tanks in this game. I can't really comment on the Finnish server, but when I play multi-player on my own private server, or when I play AI in the QMB, the Sherman and T34 can take a lot more direct hits then the PzIV, or PzIII. @Voidhunger, how did the damaged T34 in the picture above compare to the damaged PzIII in terms of systems and crew? In my experience, it is rare to see a penetrating shot like that on a PzIII without the match ending. But I see the same damage on the Sherman and T34 all the time. 

Those T34 and PzIII were AI.

When I play as a T34 I cant remember If I can survive more than one round. Usually one round kill some crew and the second one is death sentence or the first one kill my entire crew. But fighting against t34s thats complete different experience. They can survive multiple rounds.

 

In Panzer III if i can survive one round, crew will bail out.

 

In one case I survived 4-5 penetrating hits in SU 122. Assault gun started to fire two times and only the driver survived.

[LachenKrieg]

The gunners hatch is open on the PzIII so I thought it was your tank. I guess I haven't payed much attention to it lately, but the hatches open on AI tanks when they get knocked out?

[Voidhunger]

3 hours ago, LachenKrieg said:

but the hatches open on AI tanks when they get knocked out?

 

Yes

[LachenKrieg]

4 hours ago, Voidhunger said:

 

Yes

[Voidhunger]

Damage model is not rubish but need more tweaking.

 

While I cannot penetrate with Panzer III front sloped hull armor of T34, its possible to penetrate the lower end of the hull when the armor is not sloped.

It would be nice to have something like that in Panther when it was possible to penetrate or partialy penetarte front sloped hull at weld seems sometimes.

 

But lets fix the excesive explosion of the german tanks first

 

 

[moustache]

Mmmh, think something is wrong in your message Addi...

[addi]

I think it looks very good, after fighting with a Sherman tank, under 900 meters.