Game version 4.506 discussion: Fw 190 A-6; Bf 109 E-7 in 4K, other changes

[Beazil]

Fwiw, thanks for the version(s) we DO have.  I'm really enjoying the A-6 but have yet to find one online yet, but that's likely due to me not being online much this week.  As for the discussion regarding the armament options, I can't contribute, but I am enjoying the education.  Ty.

[LukeFF]

4 hours ago, JG1_Wittmann said:

So you seem to suggest that the jabo units that got them,  only had 1.65 ata engines  if all of that  was on the ac.  So were they sent some planes and told they had to leave the bomb racks on always,  and say got seperate ones  for ground attack  without all of those racks, but only with a standard engine ?  They never flew with the center rack and just wing bombs,  only allowed to fly with the center carrier installed ?

 

Gs and Fs were all that the jabo units got, because they were the ones expected to fly ground attack missions all of the time - and that meant either long range strike missions with drop tanks on the wings or shorter range missions with, yes, bombs on the wings and under the fuselage. That's simply how they flew those planes. They weren't the ones being tasked with hunting bombers or free hunt sorties. 

 

I brought up JG 26, because they are an excellent example of how a Western Front 190 unit was equipped, that is, they were equipped with standard A-series 190s. They had some planes that had MK 108s and rockets and some that either had the 20 mm cannons installed or removed. What they didn't have was the option of stripping off extra armor to gain extra performance when running at 1.65 ata, because those planes were never in their inventory. 

[JV44HeinzBar]

5 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Sooooo much misinformation here, so I'll keep my reply short:

• MK 103s were never used operationally on Fw 190s.
• All of those Jabo variants that you think only saw service in the East saw plenty of use in the West, all the way to the war's end.
• 1.65 ata was only available on planes built like that from the factory, i.e., on G and F series planes. And, all those planes were sent to ground attack units. It wasn't as if JG 26 was receiving 190s with the 1.65 ata boost and all that extra armor, and Priller decided "nah, we don't need all that stuff, strip it out!" 

S!,

I'm all for learning the truth, but blanket statements have always caused me to ask for the source. Elaborating with citations would go a long way in clearing up "Soooo much misinformation". I'm always wary anytime I see the word "never". I try my best to provide sources when I can even if the source is questionable.

 

HB

 

[Asgar]

I just wanna say, when Luke tells you something about the history of planes/operational conditions/military units involvement in combat. It’s generally as good as getting it straight out of the Bundesarchiv or the the congressional library or something comparable. He knows what he’s talking about.  

[LukeFF]

On 2/19/2021 at 6:09 PM, JV44HeinzBar said:

S!,

I'm all for learning the truth, but blanket statements have always caused me to ask for the source. Elaborating with citations would go a long way in clearing up "Soooo much misinformation". I'm always wary anytime I see the word "never". I try my best to provide sources when I can even if the source is questionable.

 

HB

 

 

Dive Bomber and Ground Attack Units of the Luftwaffe is a good place to start - they are heavily detailed and researched books drawing on a wide variety of sources.

 

Beyond that, I'm not always at my desktop PC, so I don't always have the urge to peck away at my cellphone typing up detailed responses.

[JG1_Wittmann]

On 2/19/2021 at 5:49 PM, LukeFF said:

 

Gs and Fs were all that the jabo units got, because they were the ones expected to fly ground attack missions all of the time - and that meant either long range strike missions with drop tanks on the wings or shorter range missions with, yes, bombs on the wings and under the fuselage. That's simply how they flew those planes. They weren't the ones being tasked with hunting bombers or free hunt sorties. 

 

I brought up JG 26, because they are an excellent example of how a Western Front 190 unit was equipped, that is, they were equipped with standard A-series 190s. They had some planes that had MK 108s and rockets and some that either had the 20 mm cannons installed or removed. What they didn't have was the option of stripping off extra armor to gain extra performance when running at 1.65 ata, because those planes were never in their inventory. 

 

I'm not sure,  what's the catchiest new phrase, why you keep circling back,  to removing armor.  I have not put in my posts anything about removing armor. The extra armor is probably very useful in attacking bombers.  I mentioned  removing the wing racks,   and the centerline bomb rack from the AC,  and replacing the panel  to cover the hole.  Those wing racks  look siminlar to the wing rack used to mount the Mk108 gunpods,  which someone posted a pic  that says that was the R2  field mod.  Now in the DD  they mentioned we were getting the A6/R2 , so saying field mods are not allowed is incorrect.  The devs  put that we were getting a field mod in the announcement for the A6.  It seems that this R2 mod, may differ from what other people have posted  as to what was delivered to the squadrons. 

[LukeFF]

4 hours ago, JG1_Wittmann said:

I mentioned  removing the wing racks,   and the centerline bomb rack from the AC,  and replacing the panel  to cover the hole. 

 

Yes, and those wing racks (and the attendant armor mounted on the underside to protect the engine) were not removed from F and G series 190s, for reasons I have already mentioned. On the A series, the only thing the outer parts of the wings would have been fitted with were internal cannons, gunpods, rocket launchers, or in some cases, nothing at all. Why the developers didn't add the 20 mm gunpods to the A-6, I don't know, but I'm sure there was good reason for their decision. 

4 hours ago, JG1_Wittmann said:

Now in the DD  they mentioned we were getting the A6/R2 , so saying field mods are not allowed is incorrect.

 

I'd like to know where that was said, because I don't recall that at all. As it was, there was what, one prototype plane with such armament built? So, little wonder it didn't make the cut.

[BlitzPig_EL]

LukeFF, you know that in Luftspeak, prototype = fielded in large numbers, yes?

 

[JG1_Wittmann]

Well,  I believe there was a single  that mounted the Mk103 ,   you seem to be confusing that with the Mk108.

https://il2sturmovik.com/news/604/dev-blog-270/ Third line down if you dont want to look    "This aircraft will include the assault modifications G3, G3/R5 and A6/R2 Sturmjager "    Now the R8  kit,  which we also have in game now in the A8   is  putting 2 30mm Mk  108's  in the wing.     So while in game  we have essentially some different AC. The G3  has added armor,  but when you put the R1  or  the R5  kit on, some of that additional armor is removed.  A6/R1  was the twin 151 pod version, 2 outer 151's removed from wing . First delivered nov 43.   The G3 had wing racks,V.Fw. Trg bombracks for drop tanks or bombs or both at same time ,G3/R1  had less armor than the G3

1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

 

Yes, and those wing racks (and the attendant armor mounted on the underside to protect the engine) were not removed from F and G series 190s, for reasons I have already mentioned. On the A series, the only thing the outer parts of the wings would have been fitted with were internal cannons, gunpods, rocket launchers, or in some cases, nothing at all. Why the developers didn't add the 20 mm gunpods to the A-6, I don't know, but I'm sure there was good reason for their decision. 

 

I'd like to know where that was said, because I don't recall that at all. As it was, there was what, one prototype plane with such armament built? So, little wonder it didn't make the cut.

(some removed, with the installation of a Field Kit), wing drop points removed and twin 151 gunpods under the wings, along with the G3/R2 kits were used in the anti bomber role  The G3/R5 replaced those V.Fw. Trg racks  w/ ETC 50 Racks,  we have in game, several  selectable field modifications.  The boost on a G3 was a factory installed item.  All of the R kits  are field installed, or can be installed at factory.   So we already modify the base A6 or G3  model we have as  we see fit.  We just don't have the purpose built anti-bomber/ground attacker with the twin 151 pods installed or the Mk 108.  So in summary,  R kits were installed in the field,  some armor was removed for the R1, R2, and R5 kits for the G3.  The A6  also had some AC that had the R1 and R2 kits. The A6 could and did use R1(151 pods), R2(Mk108 pods)  R3 (103 pods, mentioned prototype), R4-GM1 Nitrous Boost,  we should be able to have this, R5 (drop tank) R7 (Canopy Armor) R11 ( Radar)   R12 ( combo of Radar, and Mk108 gunpods)   Question on whether or not the R8 replacing wing 151's , outer with 108's. So wing racks and the centerline rack are a field removeable item,  The G3/R5 field mod, was to replace larger wing racks with much smaller ones it did not add a centerline  rack,  the same as for The A6, was a field added item.  We should be able to select a G3, outfit it with bombs withouth the centerline rack, like IRL.  The same goes for the G3/R5. We should be able to carry small wing bombs without a center rack.  And since we can already remove the factory wing bomb racks and install smaller ones we should be able to remove the racks altogether.  All we would get is an A6  with some added armor, and boost( which was also available on the A6)

Edited February 22, 2021 by JG1_Wittmann

[JG4_Widukind]

3 hours ago, JG1_Wittmann said:

We should be able to select a G3, outfit it with bombs withouth the centerline rack, like IRL.  The same goes for the G3/R5. We should be able to carry small wing bombs without a center rack.  And since we can already remove the factory wing bomb racks and install smaller ones we should be able to remove the racks altogether.  All we would get is an A6  with some added armor, and boost( which was also available on the A6)

Correct!

 

i dont know why we have this new Dropseqence(left+center,or rigth+center; it was the same like A5)

Edited February 22, 2021 by JG4_Widukind

[LukeFF]

4 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

LukeFF, you know that in Luftspeak, prototype = fielded in large numbers, yes?

 

 

Oh yes. ?

 

Wittmann, please don't take this as an offense, but I don't have time to reply to such a lengthy post. The bottom line is that the developers chose to model the variants that they did, because they all saw active service at one time / location or another.

 

Luftwaffe model designations can be tricky sometimes to unwind, so it very well may be that the A-6/R2 is the Assault Fighter mod we have. You'll notice that for a lot of these mods on many different planes they use generic names instead of a U or R number, because again, model designations could and did get complicated. In any case, what's important is that the devs modeled a significant variant of the A-6 that saw service with Sturmstaffel 1 and JG 3 - not whether or not they got the subvariant name right. 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

15 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

LukeFF, you know that in Luftspeak, prototype = fielded in large numbers, yes?

 

 

Absolutely, and that is why it is vital I get my Ta-152 C series as soon as possible to counter all of these pesky Tempests! I'm off to start six closely related threads on the matter now. Standby.....................

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned...

first off love the new vehicle explosions!  
was wondering if the concussion/blast radius effects planes?

there are times when strafing the target and getting close enough to read the drivers lips cursing my existence, the truck/train goes up in that beautiful plume and fly through it Star Wars style

not saying I don’t feel completely enthralled making a near escape but being a wreckless pilot like that should give my airframe some damage no?

 

I remember attacking the trains back in il2:1946 and if you were too close your wings would get blown off from the shockwave so attacking it took some caution... mind you it was like a 30 car train of fuel..

ah I miss those long trains   

But then again they may have been done like that with the many of mods that were around...

 

anyhow!  

Maybe There is a lethal blast/concussion radius aside from being directly on the bomb/vehicle boom, I've just gotten lucky..

 

And I notice you can hear the boom more while in your plane if close enough... it’s awesome..

 

Mate and I were running two 190s on ground encampment.. five sec delay on bombs I dropped my load then did a bell turn to meet on his seven’o’clock while he dove in.. he targeted the bunkers, I targeted the flak cannons...

 

as I was slightly behind and focused on the flak, swooping down and taking it out I heard the rumble of his bombs and to my three’o’clock there was the two-fifty kilo plume.. 

I could only say ‘wow!’  One because I completely forgot he had dropped his bomb with delay, and second because I felt it should have crippled my plane...

Hell, isn’t this game awesome!!?

had a little adrenaline rush after that lol..

 

ok enough about me... 

 

Thanks devs!

 

 

[Noisemaker]

I have to say that the new AI tweaks are headed in the right direction.  Enemy aircraft are now extending and positioning for a better advantage or disengaging and returning to base if they've received damage. 

That said, friendly AI are much more aggressive and shoulder shoot relentlessly.  The most of my damage sustained today was from friendly AI aircraft (And once AA, even though there was no EA in the area).

Three things of note since this update:

The AI seems to be able to pull a lot more Gs and for longer than I can as a player (Having warmed up, and riding the grey-out envelope, there's no way a 109 G can out turn my Spit V, but I'm getting the drunk vision well before I can cut the circle).

Some enemy 109 (G)s, once engaged, like to cut throttle and ride the stall envelope in a straight line, which is fine, it gives me practise with deflection shooting, but is a bit annoying given that the fighter has the speed advantage over my Spit.

The external sounds of other planes and gunfire is notably louder.  Should we really hear these sounds over our own engine and wind noise?

 

[362nd_Thorns]

Bring back the mixture controls in Expert...quit dumbing this game down!  Thanks!

[=evc214=Bombatomix]

thank's for this update devs, it seems very cool, downloading files

[216th_Jordan]

2 hours ago, Thorns1 said:

Bring back the mixture controls in Expert...quit dumbing this game down!  Thanks!

 

The mixture controls are still there, what are you on about?

[Soilworker]

On 2/27/2021 at 10:28 AM, 216th_Jordan said:

 

The mixture controls are still there, what are you on about?

 

I think it's because the US planes now have position instead of percentage in technochat. 

 

@Thorns1 How is that dumbing down? It's just showing the position the lever's in. 

[ShamrockOneFive]

On 2/27/2021 at 1:32 AM, Thorns1 said:

Bring back the mixture controls in Expert...quit dumbing this game down!  Thanks!

 

That's how mixture control works in aircraft with automatic mixture control systems.

[RedKestrel]

2 hours ago, Soilworker said:

 

I think it's because the US planes now have position instead of percentage in technochat. 

 

@Thorns1 How is that dumbing down? It's just showing the position the lever's in. 

I know, it's literally more realistic than by percentage!

[kestrel79]

I really welcome that mixture change on the planes that have it! So much easier, and yes more realistic. Before no more seeing my throttle spike from 66% to 65 and thinking am I still running auto rich or did it drop to lean?

[Alexenyanna]

Im playing Moscow Career IL2 and BF110 and AI is different in formation flight, its like leader is slower and AoA is higher leading to other planes in formation to struggle to fly, also they are shifting throttle up and back leading to speed changing plus minus 20kmh. 

It looks like they are flying in close to stall speed. 

I tried Career with IL2 in Stalingrad and its seams fine.

Anybody else experience similar problems in Moscow Career?

Edited March 10, 2021 by Mario30

[von_Tom]

On 2/16/2021 at 10:58 PM, -DED-Rapidus said:

Is this observed on any one server or on all of them?

 

The Finnish server only.  It can also be that you are in a tank and then all other tanks disappear.

 

von Tom

[ShamrockOneFive]

3 hours ago, fiddlefadel said:

hello all,  fairly new to this game. I have not been able to do the update when I click on the update tabe nothing happens.

What am I doing wrong?

 

Thanks Dave

 

Is it possible you already have the update installed?

[busdriver]

On 3/9/2021 at 9:32 AM, Mario30 said:

Im playing Moscow Career IL2 and BF110 and AI is different in formation flight, its like leader is slower and AoA is higher leading to other planes in formation to struggle to fly, also they are shifting throttle up and back leading to speed changing plus minus 20kmh. 

It looks like they are flying in close to stall speed. 

I tried Career with IL2 in Stalingrad and its seams fine.

Anybody else experience similar problems in Moscow Career?

 

No sir. I just started a new BoM career in the Bf110. What is the phase name of the campaign where you see this?

 

Here's what I just experienced. The mission planned speed is 380 km/h.

 

And the formation is flying 380 km/h enroute to the target.

 

 

[Alexenyanna]

The phase is Counteroffensive, but after reinstalling the game everything seams ok, for now.

But in same phase with IL2 Career the AI is struggling to not collide while making sharp formation turns due to really short missions

Thanks for your reply

Edited March 12, 2021 by Mario30

[x13aceofspades13]

I love the new update, looks really cool, but the front plexiglass plate on the front of the canopy of the P-51 is a bit too hazy in my opinion, it's not a total game breaker... but I mean it's not that hazy in real life, and honestly drives me nuts...

It's definitely a bit more hazy in real life, but... not that much...
 

 

[L1A1]

A fantastic update, thank you for all your hard work everyone ! ?

 

[arvigna]

ERROR ...

 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by arvigna

[=1stROF=stevie]

Run the launcher again. There's a 400mb patch it seems

[JV44HeinzBar]

S!,

Just to stir the pot some, I had some time to go through my 3 volume set by Creek & Smith concerning the FW190a6. To add support for the A6 and the inclusion of the  151/20 gondolas, I provided a scanned picture and some documented text. The first pic can found on page 287 & the 2nd pic on page 297. Both pics come from Focke Wulf Fw190 Volume 1 1938-1943 by J. Richard Smith and Eddie J. Creek, ISBN 978 1 90653 729 6, Produced by Chevron Publishing Limited.

 

HB