Developer Diary, Part 66

[Pringliano]

IL2 BoS gives me such a great time each time I fire it to practice offline, usually after watching those excellent Requiem videos, or in Multiplayer to enter great dogfights, that I am already more than satisfied with what I already have.

 

I confess I never had such a great time, after Jane's WW2 fighters and then the first IL2. Combat Flight Simulator 1 and 2 were nice, but too "plastic" for my taste - MSFS's FDM fault....

 

Also, I still have so much to learn and practice with the presently available aircraft that I actually am glad not to have yet another one to deal with :-)

[skline00]

Zak, thank you for the responses. I always respect someone like you who tells the unvarnished truth even if it rubs some the wrong way. Better to know  the limitations, if any, at the front end.

 

From my perspective, this journey of development in this software has been fascinating and enjoyable. I'm a rank amateur in SIMS who just likes having fun with my computers and software and MSFF2 flight stick and new Saitek Pro rudder pedals. 

 

I bought ROF and was "thrilled" when I could finally take off in a Gotha 2 engine bomber. (Still working on landing).

 

IL2 BOS, when announced was a no brainer. I was hooked.

 

We tend to forget that a ticket at a high end amusement park is more than the base price of this software and probably is closer to the Founder price of $99.  With Il2 BOS, we have had the rare pleasure of being Alpha users and our "fun at the park" doesn't end in 1 day.

 

I know some posters are trying to add constructive criticism, but for those who have gone too far I ask that you remember what these developers are trying to accomplish.

 

Please pass on my THANK YOU to the entire development team. Your candor and REGULAR updates is a breathe of fresh air in gaming.

[Nankeen]

Thanks Big time for the freedom in the sandbox game play, regarding what we have.   It's awsome!!

Best, most realistic effects ive seen to date, when comparing with past history documentary footage.

A story re the planes of that time is good news aswell imo.The technology and how it advanced was interesting, besides it's what it was.

Thanks for the update

[WIS-Redcoat]

Well,

 

I was not very excited for this game when it was first announced; as I knew it meant the effective end of ROF, and WWII eastern front isn't one of my interests.  I admit that after playing the game during development my enthusiasm grew and I was getting excited to play a WWII career similar to what is found inside ROF.

 

After today's announcement I really doubt I can enjoy this game much.  A DCS type "airplane simulator" is simply not my play style,  I need a campaign. 

 

I do hope it works out for you guys.

 

Cheers

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 Any particular bugs fixed in today's update? Have a nice weekend all and thanks for the update.

[FlatSpinMan]

Quite surprised at the planned campaign mode as I'd assumed it'd be based on RoF's beta career mode, and it seems simpler than I'd expected, given that it is intended to be such an integral part of the game.

I like the idea of having clear stages of the battle. That could add a sense of progression (or regression, for the LW players), and should provide a fair amount of variety of mission profiles. The repetitive nature of such missions is itself unavoidable, given that pilot's really did did get up and do kind of the same thing everyday.

 

As I read it,players will still be able to choose to play in one unit each time they load a mission if they want to, it seems, so that allows for people to play a normal campaign style (hopefully the stats are stored in such a way that they can be viewed separately, filtered, so its easier to track a single 'thread'. Always possible to record such things in a logbook too, of course.) and those who like variety can fly the same mission from different viewpoints.

 

Question: Will AI flights, ground units, etc be randomised in each mission, as with the weather and time of day?

[Zak]

Any particular bugs fixed in today's update? Have a nice weekend all and thanks for the update.

Weight distribution depending on ammo and fuel; score points counters for MP; several GUI bugs; holes from bomb explosions, etc.

Question: Will AI flights, ground units, etc be randomised in each mission, as with the weather and time of day?

Yes, within a range of operations and unit types that were possible during the given period of Stalingrad battle.

[Conveen]

It is possible now the give the game back to 1C? Because

 

"When will we have the full mission editor?

This will come after game release. Only those who we have worked with before will have a chance to get their hands on the editor during early access. The editor is too complex. It has reached functionality, but it’s too hard to learn to use it. Loft is sure that 95% of players don’t need it at all. The remaining 5% are actually capable of making something worthy. We’ll contact these 5% later, and I hope that some of them may offer the community their own user missions by the game release."

 

But when I buy the Premium Edition it says "The Mission Editor will become available in the Spring." But now not all Premium Member get them.

 

It sounds like only third party developer + 1C deal will be privileged to sold campaigns!

 

This statement "The editor is too complex. It has reached functionality, but it’s too hard to learn to use it. Loft is sure that 95% of players don’t need it at all." is just a pretext. Please let buyers decide if or if not.

 

Can you clear this up please?

 

Thx

[LLv44_Mprhead]

Thanks for the update. It will be interesting to see how the campaing will be in practice. Anyway I am sure it, and missions and multiplayer, will be enough to keep me entertained long enough for some others to make new ones. Also hopefully we will get some a bit more interesting multiplayer missions.

[startrekmike]

So the official 1C/777 position on the public release of the mission editor is that it will happen after release and not that it might be released if you get enough in sales?

 

  I know I keep on nagging on this, it is just really important.

[EAF_Paf]

Maybe it will not be as disapointing as you think. Wait and see.

 

And it took a lot of time to make the career mode in RoF, because it is very difficult to build a good one. Maybe a more classical career will come in future, the devs are only talking about what there will be in the release, not about what will be done if everything works well (don't hesitate to correct me if I am wrong).

 

And Pat Wilson or somebody else can probably do something about this career in the meantime...

 

I know, Nonolem. I pretty much remember how the beta-career came to ROF and how much work it took. I was beta-testing it and also did a bit of research for it too.

I am not angry at the devs or anything. I was just hoping to see something similar to ROF regarding the career-system.

If its not possible for release , its ok, but still disapointing for me

[oneeyeddog]

Will the holes from bomb explosions be seen in MP? It would be nice to see some lasting evidence or effect from ones bombing efforts.

[senseispcc]

This is my opinion:

 

 

The QMB in coop multiplayer mode should and could be enough!

 

 

To create full missions a ROF type mission Creator is for me perfect!

 

 

In COD I did create and post some missions (single players) how more are created even if not very historical but felling like it they are many time  very interesting to fly. 

 

 

As for skin's the ROF system is difficult but do not forget the big difference in graphic quality between the original IL2 and BOS so the skin making that did greatly  participate to the success of IL2 the original  is impossible to reproduce in a so complex graphic game has BOS.

 

 

This is a wonderful game in the making, let us wait and see, maybe with positive pushing in the right direction like with ROF the finished product shall be a success like IL2.

 

 

Long live IL2.  

 

[LLv44_Mprhead]

I really don't understand some people in here, expecting to have everything at/before release and acting like it's end of the world if they don't get it. I mean yes, there are some features I would like to see now, but I can wait that 3 - 4 months to release, or even longer. Also accusing devs for telling lies really rubs me the wrong way. If you have evidence, then provide that. Atm it's just accusation founded on your disappointment and nothing else. Or do you have some actual proof that, contrary to what developers have told, FMB will not be given to us after games release.

[Trident_109]

I promised to try to post some as well but there are no cockpit images yet. We'll see what we gonna have next week.

Patience is a virtue.   Thanks for the reply.

[JtD]

Look at the bright side: In the campaign, from a German pilot point of view - if you're unsuccessful in every mission, the battle won't advance so you won't lose it!

 

Thanks for the update!

[limeymcscrote]

"Missions are not connected with each other. There's sort of a "groundhog day" within each single phase. Time of a day, weather conditions (within a list of historically correct ones for each period) will vary every time you start the mission. And you play this or that phase as many times as you want. Several successfully completed missions open access to the next phase leaving the completed one available for reply at any time. This is akin to sand-box style gaming"

 

Can completed missions/phases can be replayed off-line?

[SCG_Neun]

Quite surprised at the planned campaign mode as I'd assumed it'd be based on RoF's beta career mode, and it seems simpler than I'd expected, given that it is intended to be such an integral part of the game.

I like the idea of having clear stages of the battle. That could add a sense of progression (or regression, for the LW players), and should provide a fair amount of variety of mission profiles. The repetitive nature of such missions is itself unavoidable, given that pilot's really did did get up and do kind of the same thing everyday.

 

As I read it,players will still be able to choose to play in one unit each time they load a mission if they want to, it seems, so that allows for people to play a normal campaign style (hopefully the stats are stored in such a way that they can be viewed separately, filtered, so its easier to track a single 'thread'. Always possible to record such things in a logbook too, of course.) and those who like variety can fly the same mission from different viewpoints.

 

Question: Will AI flights, ground units, etc be randomised in each mission, as with the weather and time of day?

At this stage, I think this is a good way to look at this.  I guess I just assumed.....and you know what a mistake that can be, that the career phase would complement what was already achieved within ROF.  If the FMB is going to be released...I suppose I can signup for the "Master's Course"......and pump out some of my own missions....or at the very least, modify some existing.  For me personally, I just expected evidently, too much, for a 100 percent gold released version.  I certainly am not accusing anyone in anyway of misleading me into that belief.  If you look at it practically....all these sims eventually evolve over time.  We shall see.....

[csThor]

Thanks for the openness. At least I don't have to feel bad about devoting more time to Arma 3 than to BoS because the offline campaign is the opposite of what I regard as a "good campaign" (personal thing, I know others have different ideas).

[Picchio]

 

Help me, Pat Wilson; you're my only hope.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Picchio

[Mikey]

i was under the impression the campaign would be quite impressive, not sure what this all means I hope it goes well

[s8n]

no list of bug fixes? hmmm

[Jason_Williams]

Guys,

 

Couple things.

 

1. I will try to clear up what was said about the ME in the post. Sometimes things get screwed up in translation even when we try to coordinate the message. These are Loft's words, not necessarily mine.

 

2. Don't get too stressed about the Campaign. It's certainly different than how we did it in ROF, but it is more challenging in some ways which looks to me to be quite fun. It's not the usual role playing elements some of you want, but based on the time and budget we have this is what we can build. However, I think it will be liked by many users.

 

Jason

[Zak]

But when I buy the Premium Edition it says "The Mission Editor will become available in the Spring." But now not all Premium Member get them.

Game release was officially postponed as well as other essential content. And since FMB is not going to become available until release then we're all waiting for September.

 

"95% of players don’t need it at all." is just a pretext. Please let buyers decide if or if not.

Can you clear this up please?

And buyers will decide when the game's released for them. But now we have founders-enthusiasts and early access version.

 

So the official 1C/777 position on the public release of the mission editor is that it will happen after release and not that it might be released if you get enough in sales?

We plan to release FMB. It has been said several times already. It has also been mentioned that IL2BOS as a product contains such element as mission editor.

[Jason_Williams]

 

Help me, Pat Wilson; you're my only hope.

 

Pat Wilson has no plans to port his Campaign Generator to WWII. However, he will share his code with anyone who has the skills to do it. Pat loves WWI and just isn't interested in WWII.

 

As I have stated before as well as Loft, all the data necessary to make a new ME or a Campaign Generator is there, just need a talented community member to step up. Some of this has already occurred with ROF, but it was spotty. Maybe with WWII product more folks will step up to get involved. We can only guess at what we expect to occur based on our ROF experience and feedback and sometimes use original IL-2 as an indicator, but the market and community has greatly changed the past 10 years.

 

Jason

[falstaff]

(edit: written before I read Jason's comments above)

 

Not having a fully realised single-player campaign is like having great ingredients but no meal.

 

That's not to say it wont suit the more hardcore multi-player and squadron folks down to the ground....but I've always seen it as the show-casing of a good game/engine.

 

Must admit...despite my optimism for BOS and the engine/dev cycle (and other good stuff like excellent dev comms) it has made me re-think my entire interest....which I'm surprised by....

Edited May 30, 2014 by falstaff

[=RvE=Windmills]

When will we have the full mission editor?

This will come after game release. Only those who we have worked with before will have a chance to get their hands on the editor during early access. The editor is too complex. It has reached functionality, but it’s too hard to learn to use it. Loft is sure that 95% of players don’t need it at all. The remaining 5% are actually capable of making something worthy. We’ll contact these 5% later, and I hope that some of them may offer the community their own user missions by the game release.

 

Is this implying that you'll work on a 'simplified' editor for everyone, or just that you'll release the complicated one eventually?

[dburne]

Pat Wilson has no plans to port his Campaign Generator to WWII. However, he will share his code with anyone who has the skills to do it. Pat loves WWI and just isn't interested in WWII.

 

 

 

I was hoping he might, but after not seeing him here after all these months I was afraid that might be the case. What he did with that campaign generator for ROF was amazing.

Hopefully some like talented individuals amongst us will run with that ball, that would be great!

[Jason_Williams]

 

 

 

This will come after game release. Only those who we have worked with before will have a chance to get their hands on the editor during early access. The editor is too complex. It has reached functionality, but it’s too hard to learn to use it. Loft is sure that 95% of players don’t need it at all. The remaining 5% are actually capable of making something worthy. We’ll contact these 5% later, and I hope that some of them may offer the community their own user missions by the game release.

 

Is this implying that you'll work on a 'simplified' editor for everyone, or just that you'll release the complicated one eventually?

 

We're talking about the current ME. A simpler one with a new interface, embedded into the GUI is a big, expensive job and would take much time.

 

A simpler standalone ME with a 2D interface can be built by a 3rd Party though. This I would support as best I could as I have done with other 3rd Party projects and tools.

 

Jason

[=RvE=Windmills]

The whole reason Il2 1946 is still alive is pretty much the mission editor.

 

I get that it's hard to do, but if there's anything that adds value to the game it's that.

 

Hell, I'd drop every single SP/campaign aspect from the game for even a basic Il2 style mission editor. It just offers you so much more options and dynamic multi content.

[Picchio]

Pat Wilson has no plans to port his Campaign Generator to WWII. However, he will share his code with anyone who has the skills to do it. Pat loves WWI and just isn't interested in WWII.

 

As I have stated before as well as Loft, all the data necessary to make a new ME or a Campaign Generator is there, just need a talented community member to step up. Some of this has already occurred with ROF, but it was spotty. Maybe with WWII product more folks will step up to get involved. We can only guess at what we expect to occur based on our ROF experience and feedback and sometimes use original IL-2 as an indicator, but the market and community has greatly changed the past 10 years.

 

Jason

 

Thank you, Jason. I appreciate the elucidation.

It's an enormous shame, that these conditions imposed on the development end up scratching away the chance for a proper dynamic campaign system included in its release.

A new entry in the IL-2 series deserves and begs for it to say the least, especially after all this time and all the words spent upon the dynamic campaign matter...

I'll remain hopeful.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Picchio

[Brano]

I feel'em  negative waves  

When old sturm was released,it had no dynamic campaign.Only linear with predefined missions.You could not even continue to next mission before first has not been succesfully acomplished.Then came DCG which was 3rd party tool IIRC.With Forgotten battles 2 or 3 years after original release.As years passed and more maps were available,there was also greater possibility to have ''full carrier'' like Barbarossa to Berlin.Now we have just 1 map,1 specific battlefield.Do not worry,time will come for proper offline campaign.

Have faith,comrades,Russia is large but there is nowhere to retreat!No place for defetism!Not one step back!

[SOLIDKREATE]

I build complex aircraft components every single day and somehow I can't use mission editor? So, we are never going to get one? I can write missions in ArmA 2 and 3 but somehow the ME is too hard in this game? Why is it too hard. 5% of players will only use it? We are flight simmers here guys. I think the numbers will be the other way around. Learning is what we all do here in our community. Can we at least have the chance to try it?

 

Sorry to sound harsh but I feel that myself and the other guys here shouldn't be quickly judged on our coding and editing abilities. I'm just afraid with all these veery negative restrictions on us this sim will die way before September. I have already seen a drop in numbers on the servers. Restricting skins and mission making...that is two nails in the coffin. You guys need to start paying attention to the people who fund you and play this genere....please. I don't want to see this die.

 

Edited May 30, 2014 by 9./JG54_SPEKTRE76

[Jason_Williams]

I feel'em  negative waves

When old sturm was released,it had no dynamic campaign.Only linear with predefined missions.You could not even continue to next mission before first has not been succesfully acomplished.Then came DCG which was 3rd party tool IIRC.With Forgotten battles 2 or 3 years after original release.As years passed and more maps were available,there was also greater possibility to have ''full carrier'' like Barbarossa to Berlin.Now we have just 1 map,1 specific battlefield.Do not worry,time will come for proper offline campaign.

Have faith,comrades,Russia is large but there is nowhere to retreat!No place for defetism!Not one step back!

 

Yes some folks don't seem to remember the evolutionary process the original IL-2 went through and only see it for what it is today after many years of updates and community mods etc. 

 

Jason

[E69_Chipi]

PLEASE Zak, Jason or B6

 

I asked before, and got no ansewer at all,

 

could you give us som information on the broken widescreen support???

 

I am not asking about feature in the future. It is a serious bug that is affecting a part of your customers, now.

 

It is frustrating to see a thousand answered questions about the campaign and FMB and not to get a response about a bug who is preventing us to play with our hardware.

 

thank you

Edited May 30, 2014 by Chipi

[startrekmike]

@Jason

 

  Thank you for the clarification, it seems that finally things are becoming more clear on the matter of the mission editor and the fact that it is coming and is not so much a matter of "if" but "when" is heartwarming news as I have been concerned that I may have invested in something before knowing all the facts that I needed to know, knowing that we WILL get one is enough to ease my mind on that matter.

 

  As far as getting the community to help with a editor, it might help to do something as simple as make a official announcement style post (the ones that everyone tends to notice more than posts inside existing topics) to let the community know that there is a opportunity for them to make the process go a lot faster, perhaps even adding some sort of incentive or making it a friendly contest of sorts, if you want folks to step up, it is important that folks know that there is a opportunity to do so, I mean, if I had any knowledge of coding and such, I would immediately jump up and help you and your team, without hesitation, I know I can't be the only one.

 

  As  said, even a simple announcement post would go a long way, perhaps even sending it as part of a newsletter so that those who don't visit the forums regularly would be able to have the opportunity to lend a hand.

[Jason_Williams]

I build complex aircraft components every single day and somehow I can't use mission editor? So, we are never going to get one? I can write missions in ArmA 2 and 3 but somehow the ME is too hard in this game? Why is it too hard. 5% of players will only use it? We are flight simmers here guys. I think the numbers will be the other way around. Learning is what we all do here in our community. Can we at least have the chance to try it?

 

Sorry to sound harsh but I feel that myself and the other guys here shouldn't be quickly judged on our coding and editing abilities.

 

 

Our experience with ROF tells us a different story. Why then have we not seen legions of BOS fans learning the ROF Editor and have been demonstrating to us how easy it is to use? Are they waiting for something? No, the the truth is the large majority of feedback over the years has been that it is too complex, too slow and not integrated into the main game enough to be effective or fun.

 

And you are reading the 95% / 5% quote incorrectly. Loft is saying that for 95% of users, what we provide them in the form of QMB and Campaign and MP will satisfy their immediate simming/gaming needs. Only a small amount of users relatively speaking will explore anything more. That's not to say we won't have that option, but we are going to give that option  a little later.

 

My wish is for every single serious flight simmer to buy BOS and show us and our bosses that the sim genre is not dead and can support such a money commitment to build such tools. The casual/arcade community is huge apparently. Something I never thought I'd see for a flying game based on all my years of selling PC games and simulations. That crowd seems to find a reason to buy a game/sim, the hardcore crowd seems to find reasons NOT to buy a game/sim and that kills the genre. If the bar for hardcore simmers is so damn high and the market is too small, then there will be no such products anymore. Simple economics guys. Very frustrating for the team behind the development.

 

 

Jason

[Jason_Williams]

PLEASE Zak, Jason or B6

 

I asked before, and got no ansewer at all,

 

could you give us som information on the broken widescreen support???

 

I am not asking about feature in the future. It is a serious bug that is affecting a part of your customers, now.

 

It is frustrating to see a thousand answered questions about the campaign and FMB and not to get a response about a bug who is preventing us to play with our hardware.

 

thank you

 

We have never had great widescreen support so this bug doesn't surprise me. We are still not a final product, Early Access was to give users a taste of what we are doing and such bugs as this are to be expected. Hopefully we can fix this issue at some point. So the clear answer is, we have no answer as this bug is not our top priority. You can play the game, just not with multiple monitors. I know this answer won't make you happy, but this is the reality.

 

Jason

[SKG51_Joker]

Our experience with ROF tells us a different story. Why then have we not seen legions of BOS fans learning the ROF Editor and have been demonstrating to us how easy it is to use? Are they waiting for something? No, the the truth is the large majority of feedback over the years has been that it is too complex, too slow and not integrated into the main game enough to be effective or fun.

 

And you are reading the 95% / 5% quote incorrectly. Loft is saying that for 95% of users, what we provide them in the form of QMB and Campaign and MP will satisfy their immediate simming/gaming needs. Only a small amount of users relatively speaking will explore anything more. That's not to say we won't have that option, but we are going to give that option  a little later.

 

My wish is for every single serious flight simmer to buy BOS and show us and our bosses that the sim genre is not dead and can support such a money commitment to build such tools. The casual/arcade community is huge apparently. Something I never thought I'd see for a flying game based on all my years of selling PC games and simulations. That crowd seems to find a reason to buy a game/sim, the hardcore crowd seems to find reasons NOT to buy a game/sim and that kills the genre. If the bar for hardcore simmers is so damn high and the market is too small, then there will be no such products anymore. Simple economics guys. Very frustrating for the team behind the development.

 

 

Jason

 

Did you ever think, that RoF and WWi scenarios could be meaningless to many BoS founderrs?

 

Why is it your need to control whether FMB is too complicated for many or few of your customers. Its that fact I simply do not understand!

Edited May 30, 2014 by ZG15_Falke

[zippyPerrserker]

Can you at least choose to fly from a specific squadron in the campaign that will be available at release?  Even if you had to manually find and click on the squadron each mission cycle or whatever at least that could give you a semblance of a campaign.

 

  Actually just went back and read the original post again and it looks like the answer is no.... man that's a bummer. Not the end of the world, I know, but as a single player guy, I thought at the least we'd get a Rise of Flight-ish campagin experience (which is pretty good on it's own, actually, regardless of Pat Wilson's).

 

I must have missed the announcement that the career wouldn't be like the one in ROF, but wasn't the idea to some sort of single player career?

 

Have to wait and see when it comes out, I'm not writing it off or anything -- hopefully in the future things will arrive that are more appealing for a single player career. For now though this news is a little disheartening.