Repairs/damage control

[104th_IronMike]

That's the main point exactly, to provide different options for different suits. I mean, we all are die hard simmers and adore realism, but real life still limits us in time. I have a special place in my heart for the kind of people who would sit through an hour long repair in a sim for the sake of it, lol, and a deep understanding for them, too. But as much as I would love to indulge in the same, often I just see myself losing time in such situations rather than enjoying myself, simply because real life is knocking on the door and claiming its toll. The older we get, the more this becomes an issue, and then in retirement again, ofc, less so. But such is life. ?

[Lofte]

On 2/15/2021 at 5:39 AM, 104th_IronMike said:

It is just 10 minutes being lost doing nothing.

I would be great to give player ability to decide how many crew members will do repair, which ones exaclly (gunner, loader etc), which exactly damage they will repair first.

So it could be a little repair management system with interface alike we use to lock/unlock gunner positions on bombers.

Just not to seat and wait but have some fun.

Edited February 17, 2021 by Lofte

[SCG_judgedeath3]

Not a fan of it as that removes a lot of the skills one need to learn and using correct tactics and makign the game too arcadish.
IF we let that and the requests of kill replays, a warning where the enemy shots are coming from, and for airplanes: auto repairs to the engine if you overheat it like in warthunder or emergency boost only need 20 seconds to refill etc then its warthunder v2 and not a simulator anymore.
I miss the time in this game when it took 30 minutes to repair the tracks. IF we remove and make repairing everything in 1 minute or less then you cant anymore use the tactic of: destroy the tracks on the ferdinand and then you can do a long flank manouver to get to its weak sides. IF it now repairs super quick then it will engage you and kill you, removing the tactical thinking and rewarding careless playstyles.

Simulators demand one to spend hundreds of hours to use the tank/airplane properly and when you do, you wont need to repair much or else you use the tank wrong and way too uncareful


Long repair times both makes it more realistic and immersive but also gives a tactical situation to how one play and what the enemy can do and makes it exciting: will I be able to repair my tank in time and get away, can my fellow tankers defend me until its done or do I bail my tank so my crew is alive, depending on where one is and the current situation is like. Especielly on SCG historical missions and dead is dead missions it adds another dimension of tank life.

But then again Im a tanker in military and seek as near real life experiences in a simulator rather than warthunder style of arcade style playstyle wher e a map is super small and 15-20 minutes of gameplay....

[104th_IronMike]

I think we all adore missions when we are in command of a Platoon. Regarding repairs, there are two shortcomings with it though, and I am not sure if the first is a bug, or simply a question of design, but it appears as a bug to me, hence I'd like to report it as such:

 

1. Bug: For repairs, engines need to be shut down, which is ok. However, when in command of a Platoon, if you shut down your engines, you lose your Platoon. This means: the AI units in your Platoon do not respond to you anymore and engage in some odd behavior that I can only describe as slowly creeping forward, at a snail's pace literally. Obviously this is a pitty, as anytime in a mission where you are in charge of a Platoon, you have the choice to either a) repair and continue on without your Platoon or b) restart the mission. If the gameplay of said mission evolves heavily around commanding a Platoon, the choice ofc falls almost always on the latter. Of course, missions with Platoons usually include larger battles, which make damage and the necessity of repairs that much more likely. 

I guess that this is tied to the radios shutting off. In my opinion, or as a suggestion regarding this bug/ design oversight/ missing function: tanks in a platoon should remain bound to the leader, regardless of engine and radio state. Even if a radio breaks down, it is arguable that commanders would have had hand signals and other means of directing their small Platoon, until it was repaired.


2. Suggestion: Currently it is impossible to have AI tanks repair. Even when they have repairable damage, like a track, they just stop in the field and that is it. In general I would like to suggest to have AI initiate repairs that are within the limits of what a player can repair, on their own accord, if not in the player's platoon. For tanks in the player's platoon, it would be great to be able to order them to repair. Of course both would likely require the "bug" under point 1 to be fixed/solved, so any tank shutting down its engines and repairing, or losing a radio, still remains a member of its original platoon.

Thank you!

Edited February 15, 2021 by 104th_IronMike

[104th_IronMike]

17 minutes ago, SCG_judgedeath3 said:

Not a fan of it as that removes a lot of the skills one need to learn and using correct tactics and makign the game too arcadish.
IF we let that and the requests of kill replays, a warning where the enemy shots are coming from, and for airplanes: auto repairs to the engine if you overheat it like in warthunder or emergency boost only need 20 seconds to refill etc then its warthunder v2 and not a simulator anymore.
I miss the time in this game when it took 30 minutes to repair the tracks. IF we remove and make repairing everything in 1 minute or less then you cant anymore use the tactic of: destroy the tracks on the ferdinand and then you can do a long flank manouver to get to its weak sides. IF it now repairs super quick then it will engage you and kill you, removing the tactical thinking and rewarding careless playstyles.

Simulators demand one to spend hundreds of hours to use the tank/airplane properly and when you do, you wont need to repair much or else you use the tank wrong and way too uncareful


Long repair times both makes it more realistic and immersive but also gives a tactical situation to how one play and what the enemy can do and makes it exciting: will I be able to repair my tank in time and get away, can my fellow tankers defend me until its done or do I bail my tank so my crew is alive, depending on where one is and the current situation is like. Especielly on SCG historical missions and dead is dead missions it adds another dimension of tank life.

But then again Im a tanker in military and seek as near real life experiences in a simulator rather than warthunder style of arcade style playstyle wher e a map is super small and 15-20 minutes of gameplay....

 

I disagree with everyting you just said, politely, if I may. You achieve the very same, if you reduce your repairs from 10 minutes to 3 minutes, and mind you I suggest it as an option, so that those, who have the time to play like you want to, can, and those who do not have the time to play like you, can, too.

This has nothing to do with arcade or realism, or dumbing down stuff. I may suggest that in fact you and I strive for the same realism. But there are limits to what realism adds to a sim or not. For example: it is realistic to have one life only. We simulate this in events. You fight differently. Now, would you want a feature, that you get only 1 life per purchase, means, each time you die, you have to buy the tank you just lost again? It is an extreme example, and while it would tremendously encourage more careful and realistic gameplay, it would be rejected by customers for very good reasons.

Likewise one could argue, whenever you get injured on a server, you have to sit out as long as it would take in real life to heal your wounds (and let us be generous and scale down days to hours), and if you die, you get a 1 month ban from the server, etc etc... Realism is all good and nice, until a certain limit. It is normal that everyone has different limits, that is why options matter. Like preheating your engines. Being able to respawn when you die online, or in general, not putting you through the ordeals one has to suffer when really going to war.

Again, I applaud you for being willing to sit through 30 min of doing nothing in a sim, if it aids your immersion and equals with fun. But rest assured, for many it doesn't, in fact I would argue for most, and that does not mean we cannot achieve tactically realistic gameplay, or strive for it, in the same or a similar way.

Me, having an option not to lose 10 very rare and costly minutes of my life, does not take away from you having the option to play it as realistically and time-consuming as you want. ? Not having the option however takes away from me engaging in an else neat feature (the ability to repair at all), and just not using it, because restarting a mission has me play at least in my limited time, even if the same again, rather than staring at a screen doing nothing.

Nothing is more precious than time. It is the only thing, that once lost, can never be regained.

Edited February 15, 2021 by 104th_IronMike

[SCG_judgedeath3]

It would change a lot, example: you drive a sherman and shot the tracks of a ferdinand from 3km range and in forest area, it has the front towards one and driving 3 km offroad and in forest will take you at least 8 minutes, if not more, so on big maps like we play on using these tactics lose their importance.

And we have already 1 life on tactical air war server and others and in our SCG events too Have to wait until the match is over before playing again or on tactical air war 24 hours, last time I flew there.

[104th_IronMike]

11 hours ago, JG27_Steini said:

 

I encourage you to write down a report. It will help better than posting here. 

 

 

I made a thread here, I did not find a bug section for tank crew. If you point me to a better place, I shall submit it there, too. Cheers.
 

 

[104th_IronMike]

14 minutes ago, SCG_judgedeath3 said:

It would change a lot, example: you drive a sherman and shot the tracks of a ferdinand from 3km range and in forest area, it has the front towards one and driving 3 km offroad and in forest will take you at least 8 minutes, if not more, so on big maps like we play on using these tactics lose their importance.

And we have already 1 life on tactical air war server and others and in our SCG events too Have to wait until the match is over before playing again or on tactical air war 24 hours, last time I flew there.

 

I am talking about player tanks, in SP missions guys. Please let us not confuse it with special situations like events. I know full well, how much it can add in events, I organized such events for 15 years in DCS (like many others, not patting my back), etc.. I would not mind waiting 60 minutes for repairs during an event, because you made time for it, you spend it with like minded people, it isn't empty time. And I agree, in MP tactically, it can make a difference, which is why here server owners should have the choice to set what they think fits best for their servers/ missions/ events - like some servers running with external views and labels on, and others without.

What I am talking about, and I mention it in the very first post, is Singleplayer. And for singleplayer I mean tanks that are either the player, or AI in the player's platoon (if repairs for them would get added at some point), and not AI tanks in general. I dont care if an enemy Sherman sits there 30 minutes waiting for me to blow his butt off, haha. But in Singleplayer - for me - it is utterly pointless sitting through 10 or even 5 minutes of doing nothing and staring at the screen. This is why I am asking for an option for those of us, who would like to see it reduced, as opposed to 1 solution that is forced on half of the community. I was no fool going into this, very well expecting divided opinions about it. And rest assured, I fully understand your standpoint and side, and I both endorse it and appreciate it, and I do not want to take away from it in any kind of way. I am merely asking you to understand the POV from us, who are limited in time, and to let us have an option, so that we can tailor it to our needs.

Btw, I hope one day we sit through some lengthy repairs in some nice event together and have a great chat and enjoy the most realistic gameplay possible. I absolutely love that, too.

Thanks for understanding where I am coming from. ?

Edited February 15, 2021 by 104th_IronMike

[SCG_judgedeath3]

Ahhh, from the earlier posts and the start it sounded more like you wanted it for the multiplayer servers and playing against other players.
For single player where you can change difficulty and realism settings I dont see any issue with having a setting like that, just like how airplanes have for easier flying and relaxed overheating, no turbulence etc.

Could for that easily have quick repairs or hard to kill setting and adjust the difficulty to what you seek in the simulator
At the moment there are more such options for airplanes so would be a nice add to have it for the tanks too like in il-2 1946 where there is a ton of settings.

[104th_IronMike]

16 minutes ago, SCG_judgedeath3 said:

Ahhh, from the earlier posts and the start it sounded more like you wanted it for the multiplayer servers and playing against other players.
For single player where you can change difficulty and realism settings I dont see any issue with having a setting like that, just like how airplanes have for easier flying and relaxed overheating, no turbulence etc.

Could for that easily have quick repairs or hard to kill setting and adjust the difficulty to what you seek in the simulator
At the moment there are more such options for airplanes so would be a nice add to have it for the tanks too like in il-2 1946 where there is a ton of settings.

 

 

Exactly, that is all I am asking for. ? Thank you for understanding!

 

PS: I edited the title, so that it is more clear on first glance.

 

 

1 hour ago, Lofte said:

I would be great to give player ability to decide how many crew members will do repair, which ones exaclly (gunner, loader etc), wich exactly damage they will repair first.

So it could be a little repair management system with interface alike we use to lock/unlock gunner positions on bombers.

Just not to seat and wait but have some fun.

 

Yes, exactly, if it was filled with actualy gameplay, in whatever form, I would not mind it at all. In Hell Let Loose, in fact, I am often the guy running with a wrench behind friendly tanks and keeping them alive, or I order my squad to protect their flanks, etc... all that kind of stuff is fantastic. Even requesting a repair unit, see it arrive and do some work, would suffice. But of course, Il2 is still primarily a flight sim, so I understand if the devs do not want to spend too much time on peeling out top of the top gameplay for a rather small feature in an else side project of theirs. Hence I guess the most realistic is to ask for an option to simply reduce the time in Singleplayer.

BTW Uboat has a similar feature you mention: in order to repair certain damage, your engineers need "parts", which they can salvage from scarp metal. You can either buy them, or have your engineers make them from damaged parts, etc... You also need to prioritize who repairs what, leaks to get fixed first, etc, electricity restored for the pumps to work and so on and so forth. It is still simplistic ofc, but neat nonetheless. Ofc, it is unlikely to see similar in Tank Crew, because such gameplay structure is not inherent to the sim. Unless, we all manage to convince at least 3 of our friends to buy it. So far I am down to 4 hahaha.

Edited February 15, 2021 by 104th_IronMike

[SCG_Junkman]

Look many times it is easier to start game over, As said like in some sub sims you can repair and not have to eat lunch dinner and well  then wait one more minute for the dreaded tank tread fix up.

[SCG_Junkman]

I could agree, very frustrating having two or three tanks not moving forward or not engaging other targets, if out of ammo or needing repairs just at end of mission.

[SCG_Junkman]

well thanks I needed that too. tracks!!!

[LachenKrieg]

5 hours ago, 104th_IronMike said:

 

 

I made a thread here, I did not find a bug section for tank crew. If you point me to a better place, I shall submit it there, too. Cheers.
 

 

Look under the Great Battles tab.... thread is called "Technical Issues and Bug Reports".

 

 

5 hours ago, 104th_IronMike said:

I think we all adore missions when we are in command of a Platoon. Regarding repairs, there are two shortcomings with it though, and I am not sure if the first is a bug, or simply a question of design, but it appears as a bug to me, hence I'd like to report it as such:

 

1. Bug: For repairs, engines need to be shut down, which is ok. However, when in command of a Platoon, if you shut down your engines, you lose your Platoon. This means: the AI units in your Platoon do not respond to you anymore and engage in some odd behavior that I can only describe as slowly creeping forward, at a snail's pace literally. Obviously this is a pitty, as anytime in a mission where you are in charge of a Platoon, you have the choice to either a) repair and continue on without your Platoon or b) restart the mission. If the gameplay of said mission evolves heavily around commanding a Platoon, the choice ofc falls almost always on the latter. Of course, missions with Platoons usually include larger battles, which make damage and the necessity of repairs that much more likely. 

I guess that this is tied to the radios shutting off. In my opinion, or as a suggestion regarding this bug/ design oversight/ missing function: tanks in a platoon should remain bound to the leader, regardless of engine and radio state. Even if a radio breaks down, it is arguable that commanders would have had hand signals and other means of directing their small Platoon, until it was repaired.


2. Suggestion: Currently it is impossible to have AI tanks repair. Even when they have repairable damage, like a track, they just stop in the field and that is it. In general I would like to suggest to have AI initiate repairs that are within the limits of what a player can repair, on their own accord, if not in the player's platoon. For tanks in the player's platoon, it would be great to be able to order them to repair. Of course both would likely require the "bug" under point 1 to be fixed/solved, so any tank shutting down its engines and repairing, or losing a radio, still remains a member of its original platoon.

Thank you!

This is a great point, thanks for bringing it up. I play mostly SP QMB mode. I use the command feature with platoons a lot. I would say the issue you describe is most likely just an oversight/not implemented yet feature. Comparing to when I joined last June, the command feature has come a long way. In all fairness, the Dev's have really been quite good at ironing out a lot of the wrinkles raised by the community. So I encourage you to make your point known in the "Technical Issues and Bug Reports" thread.

Edited February 16, 2021 by LachenKrieg

[104th_IronMike]

Indeed, it has come along nicely and continues to do so.

 

Done, for reference, if anyone wants to contribute to the bug report/ suggestion thread.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by 104th_IronMike

[LachenKrieg]

17 hours ago, SCG_judgedeath3 said:

Ahhh, from the earlier posts and the start it sounded more like you wanted it for the multiplayer servers and playing against other players.
For single player where you can change difficulty and realism settings I dont see any issue with having a setting like that, just like how airplanes have for easier flying and relaxed overheating, no turbulence etc.

Could for that easily have quick repairs or hard to kill setting and adjust the difficulty to what you seek in the simulator
At the moment there are more such options for airplanes so would be a nice add to have it for the tanks too like in il-2 1946 where there is a ton of settings.

I get your point, and I do support the concept of time penalties for repair/resupply, but in all fairness it should also consider the way it affects the flow of game play. In reality, it would take a crew the better part of a day to repair tracks in the field (several hours), so no matter how you cut it, the purpose of the SIM in this regards is to add another level of difficulty to make the game more exciting, not to simulate real life in all its detail. The point to consider IMO is how the time penalty affects both teams chance of winning.

 

You point is that when you track an opponent, you want to be able to capitalize on the situation by having the time to flank and destroy your enemy. That is a pretty sound argument, and one that adds another interesting layer of game play. But I can't help wonder if the example you give isn't a little over the top in terms of imagination. Even traveling at 15kph, in 8 minutes you will have traveled 2km. The armor on the side of most tanks isn't any better then the armor on the back. In most cases, all you have to do is get a clean shot on the side. In the case of the Ferdinand, both side and back have 80mm. So you shouldn't have to travel much more than 1500m to get in position, and probably a lot less. And don't forget, you can always stop every 500m or so to shoot his/her tracks again as your working your way to the flank position, not to mention the possibility of communicating the situation to your team mates to make a coordinated attack.

 

So is 8 minutes too much, or too little, I don't know TBH, but my feeling is that the amount of time allotted should consider how it affects game play instead of pretending it simulates real life combat.

Edited February 16, 2021 by LachenKrieg

[104th_IronMike]

Guys, I think I found the culprit for the loss of platoons. In fact I dont think it is engine shutdown related, but related to impaired movement.

I found out, that whenever you lose the ability to move, that is take damage to either tracks, gearbox or steering or engine (ergo it happens when shutting down engines for repair), you lose your platoon. I had minor track damage where it would only occur after engine shutdown, but after several tests and missions, it is clear that any heavy damage that impairs movement disbands the platoon.

I reported it here:
 

 

Is it normal that the devs reply rarely to any of the bug reports? Asking in general, not for my reports as they are still young, just wondering where to find the acknowledgement. Is there a public tracker or something to see what has been acknowledged, etc?

Edited February 20, 2021 by 104th_IronMike

[LachenKrieg]

6 hours ago, 104th_IronMike said:

Guys, I think I found the culprit for the loss of platoons. In fact I dont think it is engine shutdown related, but related to impaired movement.

I found out, that whenever you lose the ability to move, that is take damage to either tracks, gearbox or steering or engine (ergo it happens when shutting down engines for repair), you lose your platoon. I had minor track damage where it would only occur after engine shutdown, but after several tests and missions, it is clear that any heavy damage that impairs movement disbands the platoon.

I reported it here:
 

 

BTW, is it normal that the devs do not reply to almost any of the bug reports? Asking in general, not for my reports as they are still young, but I don't see much interaction at all. Is there a public tracker or something to see what has been acknowledged, etc?

Unfortunately here, I would say it is normal. It would be nice to see more acknowledgement from the Developer's side, but it is what it is. If the issue is something really important, or being worked on you might get some feedback, but not usually.

[Badger343rd]

What we need is ambulances and rearm/repair trucks like we have in steelbeasts, that we can call from afar to come to us or rendezvous with.