Hi, why are the allied aircraft so inferior to the axis aircraft.

[Voodoo_Slayer]

Late war online MP is almost dead because of the ineffectiveness of the in game .50 cal s. 

[Diggun]

40 minutes ago, Voodoo-BlackDog said:

Late war online MP is almost dead because of the ineffectiveness of the in game .50 cal s. 

what specious nonsense.

[Creep]

On 4/17/2021 at 12:28 PM, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

the .50 guys would spend sixteen pages explaining why the DM doesn't match the palm data.

If an easily repeatable test which shows that 1 round of HE HMG is equivalent to 80 rounds of AP HMG in terms of aerodynamic drag is "palm data", you might be a flat-earther.

[BCI-Nazgul]

4 hours ago, Diggun said:

what specious nonsense.

It is true that it's not "dead", however, I know a couple people that have quit playing because their favorites are next to useless in air to air and few more that have greatly reduced their playing time for the same reason.   The frustration level gets real high when you hit with a couple dozen rounds of AP and nothing happens while the enemy only needs a single hit of any kind of HE including < 20mm and your plane is completely unfightable.

Edited April 27, 2021 by BCI-Nazgul

[Thad]

On 4/26/2021 at 11:38 AM, Eisenfaustus said:

This is a simulation - no action game. So balancing doesn’t matter - historical accuracy does. That is why the discussion is centred around wether the current FM/DM are historical accurate and not wether they are balanced for MP. 

- historical accuracy does (OR SHOULD) matter the most.- 

Perceptions are hard to overcome. Currently the games 50cal effectiveness is obviously perceived as weak and flawed. ?

[BCI-Nazgul]

11 minutes ago, Thad said:

- historical accuracy does (OR SHOULD) matter the most.- 

Perceptions are hard to overcome. Currently the games 50cal effectiveness is obviously perceived as weak and flawed. ?

It's more than "perception".  The average number of hits required and their immediate effects don't appear to track with history while the HE round effects also don't track with history.  This has been shown by a number of careful experiments and statistical studies by players under controlled conditions. Some of which took a lot of time and effort.  I'm not going to quote all the sources,  but there are PLENTY of them in this forum including one my friends and I did.  Unfortunately, only the devs have the tools to do conclusive tests on this.

[CountZero]

Spit14 is finaly in game so there is no reason to complain any more. 

We even got mod on it that have only 20mm, and gets rid of .50 or .303 cals.

Its like having cooler P-51 in game with 20mm guns and without anti g-suit, and real ww2 larping pilots dont wear G pants they go comando vs axis.

 

problem of inferior allied airplanes is solved by introduction of more raf airplanes, long live the king

 

P.S.

petitions for collector Meteor F.3 should start asap to counter ar234 advantage incoming next year... or top reserchers should be on the case.

Edited April 27, 2021 by CountZero

[Thorne]

Flying Allies feels like a vacation -- hop in the Tempest, Spitfire, or Yak and you can answer literally anything you run into with 'two circle'.

 

.50 cals absolutely shred -- additionally their ridiculous muzzle velocity and copious ammo stores make them a joy to use. I get way more pilot kills with .50s and also tend to set things on fire (which is game over) way more often.

 

Finally 'Voodoo Blackdog' there's a reason that the whole world has moved on from .50s as the aircraft gun of choice -- barring muzzle velocity cannons are much, much more effective in both the air to air and air to ground role.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Thorne

[Mtnbiker1998]

15 hours ago, Thorne said:

Flying Allies feels like a vacation -- hop in the Tempest, Spitfire, or Yak and you can answer literally anything you run into with 'two circle'.

 

.50 cals absolutely shred -- additionally their ridiculous muzzle velocity and copious ammo stores make them a joy to use. I get way more pilot kills with .50s and also tend to set things on fire (which is game over) way more often.

 

Finally 'Voodoo Blackdog' there's a reason that the whole world has moved on from .50s as the aircraft gun of choice -- barring muzzle velocity cannons are much, much more effective in both the air to air and air to ground role.

Way to Necro a useless thread from 6 months ago bud.

 

.50s were updated a few updates ago.

[Denum]

The .50s have been updated.

 

The community rejoiced.

 

We drank, we sang, and most of all. 

 

We played. 

 

 

 

 

[Voodoo_Slayer]

.50 cals are still very disappointing. 

[Knarley-Bob]

They don't understand ballistics.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

12 minutes ago, Knarley-Bob said:

They don't understand ballistics.

 

Actually, they have a decent handle on ballistics. Terminal ballistics has so many variables it's pretty hard to determine a constant/outcome. The only real problem is; they have not modeled API/APIT but that is a known item. It will not get rectified until a later design cycle - I think after complex fuel systems in the developers roadmap. The guns are average within a certain envelope/at convergence and less so outside of that, admittedly, narrow window.

 

There are approximately 1.67 billion pages on the subject for anyone who wants to see actual answers from the Devs. Also a stable full of banishments for false claims on the matter. Tread lightly.

 

The short answer is the P-51 is an outstanding AC in this sim and is hampered by available ammo which will be rectified within the Dev roadmap and not a second sooner. You don't have to like it but you do have to accept it. Or not, I suppose, but that will only lead to your frustration.

 

Your help is often so ill-informed, to the point I haven't decided if you are just trolling most of the time.

[Knarley-Bob]

Perhaps so, but bullets is something I know just a little bit about.

I am a competitive shooter in the USA. I cast my own projectiles, lube them size them according to individual bores. I actually own firearms and shoot them. I have been scolded more than once for not remembering that all people on this board have even held a firearm.

Perhaps, I erred by using the term "Ballistics" And I'm sure you could quote all 1.67 billion pages, for I only own a paltry 11 reloading manuals, I of course would know nothing that would be any kind of help. And all that 'ill-informed' information culled from volumes of books about fighter aircraft, that doesn't seem to fit your perspective, are all moot.

A stable full of 'banishments' oh dear, quite frightening indeed.....

 

No, I used the wrong term in 'ballistics' and I will aslo have to admit to being ignorant to the correct term of what I am speaking. Do you have any idea of what goes on with the projectile AFTER it hits it's target? After it starts to yaw, and is smashing through a wing tumbling? After it bounces off an angled hard surface and goes through the next few pieces of a wing sideways? Or after it hits, say a chunk of landing gear motor, grenades and sends pieces of bullet AND parts of that motor slicing through what ever gets in the way? No, it doesn't go in a straight line, nor does it just make a round hole. Whist the bullet it's self may not be explosive, it will fragment, and what it hits inside the wing will fragment shooting shards through the nearest skin of the wings, while tearing up any bracing, tubing, motors, gas lines hydraulics ect. in the vicinity. And that is ONE bullet. Imagine what a good burst will do. And not with just the .50's , the .30 cals, also, yes even their metric counterparts. Ever hit a chunk of cast iron with a good sized slug? One could say it explodes, sending shrapnel in all directions, and yes that shrapnel is deadly.

 

You are correct, sir, Ballistics is about 'flying' bullets.

Terminal ballistics is more of a weight/velocity/distance thing......

But, if I'm on the way to the 'Stable of woe" so be it.........

Merry Christmas anyway      

 

 

.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Knarley-Bob

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

57 minutes ago, Knarley-Bob said:

Perhaps so, but bullets is something I know just a little bit about.

I am a competitive shooter in the USA. I cast my own projectiles, lube them size them according to individual bores. I actually own firearms and shoot them. I have been scolded more than once for not remembering that all people on this board have even held a firearm.

Perhaps, I erred by using the term "Ballistics" And I'm sure you could quote all 1.67 pages, for I only own a paltry 11 reloading manuals, I of course would know nothing that would be any kind of help. And all that 'ill-informed' information culled from volumes of books about fighter aircraft, that doesn't seem to fit your perspective, are all moot.

A stable full of 'banishments' oh dear, quite frightening indeed.....

 

No, I used the wrong term in 'ballistics' and I will aslo have to admit to being ignorant to the correct term of what I am speaking. Do you have any idea of what goes on with the projectile AFTER it hits it's target? After it starts to yaw, and is smashing through a wing tumbling? After it bounces off an angled hard surface and goes through the next few pieces of a wing sideways? Or after it hits, say a chunk of landing gear motor, grenades and sends pieces of bullet AND parts of that motor slicing through what ever gets in the way? No, it doesn't go in a straight line, nor does it just make a round hole. Whist the bullet it's self may not be explosive, it will fragment, and what it hits inside the wing will fragment shooting shards through the nearest skin of the wings, while tearing up any bracing, tubing, motors, gas lines hydraulics ect. in the vicinity. Ant that is ONE bullet. Imagine what a good burst will do. And not with just the .50's , the .30 cals, also, yes even their metric counterparts. Ever hit a chunk of cast iron with a good sized slug? One could say it explodes, sending shrapnel in all directions, and yes that shrapnel is deadly.

 

You are correct, sir, Ballistics is about 'flying' bullets.

Terminal ballistics is more of a weight/velocity/distance thing......

But, if I'm on the way to the 'Stable of woe" so be it.........

Merry Christmas anyway      

 

 

.

 

After eight years in SWAT and four years as a rangemaster, I'll compare ballistics (including terminal ballistics involving wood, glass, vehicles, busses, steel, Level II, Level III and Level IIIA vests, pig carcas and gelatin) resumes any day.

 

Now, lets get back to how the Allied AC perform, shall we?

Edited December 21, 2021 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[Knarley-Bob]

8 minutes ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

 

After eight years in SWAT and four years as a rangemaster, I'll compare ballistics (including terminal ballistics involving wood, glass, vehicles, busses, steel, Level II, Level III and Level IIIA vests, pig carcas and gelatin) resumes any day.

 

Now, lets get back to how the Allied AC perform, shall we?

Well then, you know what I posted is valid then, good.

There is no need to compare resumes, I don't like to brag.

As far as the Allied AC performs, I guess we'll have to agree that we disagree.

There are people (Customers) that are un-happy with the product, simple as that.

If management doesn't want to do anything about it, it's on them..........

[Denum]

I think the .50s are working pretty good now, 

 

The glaring issues at this point would be damage model related (areo damage etc) and hopefully the addition of API. 

 

I still have the occasional moment where I still have to sit back, mouth agape wondering WTF. But sometimes people get lucky. 

 

(109G2, bounced him in my 6 gun P47, knocked him unconscious, assumed he was dead, looked in the mirror and saw him lights on, still flying.

 

I popped him a second time, again he was unconscious, out of control.

 

I break away and YET again I see him climbing with lights on.

 

I slide in a third time. I light the plane on fire and see it diving away.

 

Surely he's dead now. 

 

You guessed it. The fire went out and this poor 109 was leaking every fluid imaginable. Climbing and frantically flashing lights.

 

I get behind him a fourth time. Proceeded to empty everything I had left. Finally a PK..

 

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Denum

[ITAF_Airone1989]

To me, they seems pretty effective. I guess it's a matter of which part of the aircraft you hit.
I checked the stats, he needed an avarage of 30 bullets to shot down an aircraft.
 

[[CPT]Crunch]

Be thankful we're getting guns that fire the full speed at 850 rounds per minute each, because the acceptance standard was minimum 750 up to 850.  Your getting best case scenario for velocity and rate.  As far as smashing through structures and such, this is only a simulation, there's no such thing matching that reality under the hood, which in a simulation has to be acceptable.

[=MERCS=One_Called_Kane]

10 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Be thankful we're getting guns that fire the full speed at 850 rounds per minute each, because the acceptance standard was minimum 750 up to 850.  Your getting best case scenario for velocity and rate.  As far as smashing through structures and such, this is only a simulation, there's no such thing matching that reality under the hood, which in a simulation has to be acceptable.

 

For a six-gun battery of 50s that is a difference of a whole 10 rounds in a full second burst. Imagine how mediocre they'd be if we didn't have that...

 

Seriously though, the 50s as modelled with AP are fine. They aren't ideal, but they work. They were more competitive IRL than they are in game due to a variety of factors that aren't yet or cannot be replicated in this simulation, and even then cannons replaced them pretty quickly. 

 

Hopefully when the new fuel systems get modelled and they actually have something to burn, API will get added and a whole new round of forum-fighting can occur about whose granddad could beat up whose.

[Snap_Roller]

On 4/27/2021 at 8:05 AM, Voodoo-BlackDog said:

Late war online MP is almost dead because of the ineffectiveness of the in game .50 cal s. 

The .50 is not ineffective I know aim and I get fuel tank fires and explosions. 

[Thorne]

On 12/18/2021 at 12:56 PM, Mtnbiker1998 said:

Way to Necro a useless thread from 6 months ago bud.

 

.50s were updated a few updates ago.

 

Yes.