Jump to content
Voodoo_Jager

Hi, why are the allied aircraft so inferior to the axis aircraft.

Recommended Posts

Why are the .50 cals so weak?

why is the p51 outperformed so badly by axis aircraft?

why is the p47 performance so poor? 
why is the blackout physics so bad? 
I paid good money for this game and it’s incredibly poor for the allied side. 

  • Haha 5
  • Confused 15

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll split that one up.

 

26 minutes ago, Voodoo_Jager said:

 

Why are the .50 cals so weak?

 

They're not. It's just that new types of ammunition were developed and introduced for it to deal with the progressively increased armor on late war German warplanes. We're missing these new types ingame right now, and they're intended to be added after a full rework of the fuel system modeling, last I heard.

 

26 minutes ago, Voodoo_Jager said:

why is the p51 outperformed so badly by axis aircraft?

 

It's not. You're flying it wrong. Sorry.

 

26 minutes ago, Voodoo_Jager said:

why is the p47 performance so poor?

 

Because it's a fat tub of a plane that excelled only at relatively high altitudes, barring a few specific models that saw relatively little use during the war.

 

26 minutes ago, Voodoo_Jager said:

why is the blackout physics so bad?

 

Excuse me? You'll have to be more specific than that.
As a matter of fact, modeling for the pilot's cardiovascular system was reviewed and tweaked several times, and as far as I'm aware, it's in a pretty decent place right now. In fact, with the anti-G suit available on several allied planes, "blackout physics" are one of the biggest advantages allied players have.

 

26 minutes ago, Voodoo_Jager said:

I paid good money for this game and it’s incredibly poor for the allied side. 

 

'murica
Also, citation needed.

 

I hope that helps.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 4
  • Upvote 12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're also going to need to work on your shooting, the .50s are a bit held back by their lack of late war ammo types, but you can still be quite effective with them if you get the hang of shooting at convergence, and hitting the center mass of the aircraft. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Voodoo_Jager said:

Why are the .50 cals so weak?

why is the p51 outperformed so badly by axis aircraft?

why is the p47 performance so poor? 
why is the blackout physics so bad? 
I paid good money for this game and it’s incredibly poor for the allied side. 

.50 is the only problem, which are already known problem, lack of aero penalty, and API and APIT.

P-47D22 is really fast in comparison to D28 because aerodynamics and the different prop. Is faster than most of german planes in game. Is one of my personal favorites. 

P-51 is not outperformed, in fact, P-51 outperforms a little bit in the low speed turn aspect. But is nothing from other world. Maybe you feel that because 109K-4 is actually overmodeled at sea leve only, going 30km/h faster than IRL, but i repeat, SEA LEVEL ONLY.  both engines, but with the rest of german planes, P-51 is a very solid, if not the best option for take care of them, since its superior to G-14, and D9 personally.

 

And G Mechanics... Applies for everyone, without G suit is almost same for everyone

Edited by RoyalUrsus
  • Haha 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

You're going to need to support those arguments to get anywhere with that.

There’s only so many videos one can upload to YouTube 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Voodoo_Jager said:

There’s only so many videos one can upload to YouTube 

Please, let them come. I am in a lockdown again.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have stuck with this sim for years and paid lots of money in the process. They diverted their attention to ground vehicles which is part of the game that will never be very popular and because of this diversion they have failed to address the free basic issues and highlight in my original post. 

  • Haha 1
  • Confused 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cave conclusive proof, backed up by multiple YouTube videos, testimonials of all the best multiplayer pilots, and books I read somewhere but can't remember the title of, that every aircraft in IL-2 GB outperforms every other one, in a totally unhistorical manner. Unless I'm flying it...

Edited by AndyJWest
  • Haha 7
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Voodoo_Jager said:

Why are the .50 cals so weak?

why is the p51 outperformed so badly by axis aircraft?

why is the p47 performance so poor? 
why is the blackout physics so bad? 
I paid good money for this game and it’s incredibly poor for the allied side. 

 

With regard to the fifty calibre machine guns - they are usually wing mounted... so you have to fire at the right range for the bullets to converge. Also, I've flown a bunch of missions in the P-39 using just the two nose mounted .50 cals for testing purposes - and I can easily shoot down a couple of bombers with them... so they are quite adequate.

 

Emannuel Gunstin has a great set of articles on heavy machineguns in WWII fighters and concludes that they were a bad idea compared to cannons: http://users.skynet.be/Emmanuel.Gustin/fgun/fgun-in.html I personally think that he overlooks their use for deflection shooting, however his basic logic checks out.

 

That said, if they aren't working for you - there are other allied fighters... maybe try flying the Tempest? 4x20mm cannons? Or maybe try a P-39 Aircobra?

 

As for the P-51 and the blackout physics... frankly, your first impression is wrong... the P-51 is an excellent fighter in the sim and the blackout physics are some of the most advanced every programmed:

As for the P-47... you are probably flying it at low altitude where it under-performs... and it did have a turn rate that was worse than some bombers... so it might just be reality.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Voodoo_Jager said:

I paid good money for this game and it’s incredibly poor for the allied side. 

 

I think that I've probably paid rather more good money than you for this game series and strangely enough I actually like it, even though I fly Allied far more often than Axis.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Voodoo_Jager said:

 

why is the p47 performance so poor? 
 

Compared to what?

For science, go on TAW right now, and take a G14/A8 up to 7km and see how p47s perform.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JG51_Beazil said:

Wheeeeee!

 

I was going to suggest much less fuel in those birds.  Full fuel the pony does not handle well at all.

 

I never take more than 33% on a DF server.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Voodoo_Jager said:

I have stuck with this sim for years and paid lots of money in the process. 

 

The praise yourself being lucky, I can not pay anything as it seems my creditcard has difficulties with Xsolla payments. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well you gotta be fair, until very recently blackouts were pretty phony. Today in my limited experience of RL aerobatics (I know Faucon's is quite the expert here), they're pretty spot on.

 

Game is far from flawless, but blackouts are the best I ever experienced in a sim.

Edited by KGM_Roll
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think he posted this after his tantrum on the Combat Box server (Crimean Offensive Apr 1944). The time the map it was set in was before the allies could use the G suits and I do not think he knew this. All the rest of the complaints are regurgitation of his past posts and comments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

I cave conclusive proof, backed up by multiple YouTube videos, testimonials of all the best multiplayer pilots, and books I read somewhere but can't remember the title of, that every aircraft in IL-2 GB outperforms every other one, in a totally unhistorical manner. Unless I'm flying it...

Same here.

If we fight one another, who will be overmodelled ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, =[PANDA]=DerRotePanda said:

All the rest of the complaints are regurgitation of his past posts and comments.

 

Ooer, he does whinge a bit, doesn't he? Not one single constructive post showing on his current profile.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, jeanba said:

Same here.

If we fight one another, who will be overmodelled ?

Whoever wins is piloting the UFO!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Voodoo_Jager said:

I have stuck with this sim for years and paid lots of money in the process. They diverted their attention to ground vehicles which is part of the game that will never be very popular and because of this diversion they have failed to address the free basic issues and highlight in my original post. 

I was tempted to ask to be kind and fair with you - critics on the whole by a beginner, obviously. But telling us you're "stuck with this sim for years" and pointing on Youtube as a source - how that? There are hundreds of well done lectures telling you in detail how to successfully handle any allied aircraft in IL2-GB.  Even the use of the P-40 as a fighter has been demonstrated - if you take your time and learn to handle it.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

Life hack:

 

Fly with a german skin - it reverses the nerf.

lol that's a great one and i am definitely stealing it :)

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can the OP confirm (truthfully) that he has not been flying the P51 with over 50% fuel?   

 

As in real life,   it is horribly unbalanced with full fuel  but I guess in real life if they had taken full fuel they had burned most of it away before they met the enemy.    With lower fuel the P51 is a superb aircraft though you will find many people agreeing, rightly or wrongly,  that they think the 50s are not as effective as they should be.  

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He did not post any proof so I found some for him. Here is footage from an ACE lone wolf pilot. The best video you will see today frends ! 

 

Edited by =[PANDA]=DerRotePanda
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

Can the OP confirm (truthfully) that he has not been flying the P51 with over 50% fuel?   

 

As in real life,   it is horribly unbalanced with full fuel  but I guess in real life if they had taken full fuel they had burned most of it away before they met the enemy.    With lower fuel the P51 is a superb aircraft though you will find many people agreeing, rightly or wrongly,  that they think the 50s are not as effective as they should be.  

I never fly with over 40%. Mostly start with 30%. This ain’t my first gig 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Voodoo_Jager said:

I never fly with over 40%. Mostly start with 30%. This ain’t my first gig 

 

Whats the problem with the Mustang then? Ok the .50 right now is underpowered. But apart from that it has superb handling? I remember the coolant radiator overheating quickly but I didnt fly it since a while ago.

Edited by I./JG52_Woutwocampe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

USA has a strong history of exceptionalism. For some weapons, any drift from "the best" seems like a direct insult to our Ace-i-tude. Never queustion our Ace-i-tude.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The biggest problem with the Allied planes is that most of them rely on the miserably underperforming .50 cal MG.   Even in a P-47 you often get an opportunity for at least a crossing shot against most planes, but, unfortunately, because the .50 M2 is so poor that usually won't help you.   That's probably about 75% of "what's wrong".   The other problems are that the 51 and 47 seem to a very nasty snap accelerated stall that you won't see in other planes and it happens with no warning at all.  Finally the G model/flight model doesn't handle sudden extreme stick movement like it should.  Negative G's don't do much even though they can actually kill you IRL and the control system allows you to slam the stick instantly from one extreme to another which is actually nearly physically impossible in a plane with un-boosted control surfaces.   The amount of force that the controls can require even in a light civilian aircraft that is out of trim would surprise most people that have never flown a real plane.   Multiply that by larger surfaces in much bigger WW II fighter and going probably 3x-4x as fast and one can easily understand why pilots with high upper body strength were thought to have an advantage in WWII dogfights.  The bottom line is that this allows planes that can achieve high turn rates to achieve them much easier that they can IRL.  Every pilot in IL2 is a virtual gorilla in the cockpit which gives the Axis and Russian planes more of a turn advantage than they probably should have.

 

All that said, I will say that the Mustang is actually a good aircraft in IL2 even though it's not doing nearly as well as it should IMO.  With proper .50s it would be a monster.

Edited by BCI-Nazgul
  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, BCI-Nazgul said:

The other problems are that the 51 and 47 seem to a very nasty snap accelerated stall that you won't see in other planes and it happens with no warning at all.

 

And what about I16, Fw190, Mc202, ... well almost everything which doesn't have slats?

 

12 hours ago, BCI-Nazgul said:

Finally the G model/flight model doesn't handle sudden extreme stick movement like it should.

 

What do you mean exactly? 

 

12 hours ago, BCI-Nazgul said:

Negative G's don't do much even though they can actually kill you IRL

 

What? :huh:

 

 

Edited by JG300_Faucon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The P-51 gives ample warning with it's gun-whistling. The only card it can't play late-war is the climb. Don't prop-hang with ANY late-war LW aircraft.

 

The only two issues I can see while flying the P-51 is the cal 50s and the trim-management (which in all honesty is just a matter of getting used to).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I concur with the OP. Online the axis planes just dominate...I usually play allied and fare okay (something like 2 to 1 k/d ratio), but I always get jumped by 109s after diving on an opponent and losing some energy. I hopped over to the axis side just for kicks and tried the 109 g14 and k4 online and sticking to boom and zoom tactics, racked off a kill streak of like 4 on finnish dynamic pilots. The 109 isnt as fun to fly as the spit, but it climbs like a rocket and takes a ton of damage without going down. 

 

I think the game is overall amazing but there are some glaring problems that make the German planes far better. The other night, I drove on a 109 flying straight and level and racked off a few cannon round on the 109s (in my spit 9) tail section which i saw visible hits but he had no damage from. After a dogfight that went to the deck, he or one of his buddies shot me down when he should've been out of the fight with a few cannon rounds right to the tail from point blank range.

 

The .50s are also so weak that it makes the p51 unusable. The only time I get kills in it are when the opponents engine fails 20 minutes later or I kill the pilot. Ocassionally it will set fires to the 110, but not the 109 usually.

 

Also, for some reason once I get a 109 on my tail in the spit 9 with clipped wings i cannot usually shake him except by diving vertically amd rolling all over the place. 109 pilots have no problem pulling tighter turns then me in the spitfire even though i start gradually to ease in the g forces and then pull harder to no evail...one cannon burst and I'm usually dead which isnt the case when I hit a 109 with a cannon burst.

Edited by Drewm3i
  • Haha 2
  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...