Politer Piloting

[=J18=CCC]

Salute to all you RoF and FC enthusiasts!

 

 

What if:

 

- we agreed on trying to make all the conversations more enjoyable?

 

- we could overcome the urge to react to any troll attacks?

 (verbal or in game attacks)

 

- we would consider translation errors before assuming a foreigners intend in his post?

 

-

 

- (Your entries are wanted and will be listed in next posts)

 

-

 

- we had a token or logo in our signature to show our support of this politer piloting endeavour?

 

- we would use "PP" in chats besides the already embraced "S!" for Salute, to either a way of greetings

   or a means to shut up an obvious troll, instead of getting into a verbal battle?

 

Anyone who wants to support this call to “politer piloting” please put the PP logo in your signature.

 

 

It's meant to be a reminder that we are piloting through our conversations as well as through the bullet filled skies.

 

CCC   

 

Links:

German version:  (shortly)

Russian version: at the moment pending upon wanted volunteers

 

 

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Reserved for more submitted entries:

 

added Dec12 2020:

 

- we could convince those who left the forums out of frustration about foul language, to rejoin?

- we could re-invite banned people, who are willing to adjust old habits when possible?

- we could encourage those who are carrying old deep wounds,

  from verbal battles of the past,

  to forgive and send their "arch enemies" a link to this thread? Maybe with just a "PP"?

 

 

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Reserved for Logos:

Suggested sizes for signature are the 5 %or 10% versions.

The bigger ones are for your Coffee cup or such.

 

In RoF you will have to download the version you want, to your computer first and after that,

post it in one of your replies again, That way it will become available in your “My Media” tab when you are writing the next reply or in any pm.

In FC you can just download and insert it as a file in your next post or pm.

 

You are welcome to just re-post the logo for your own purpose without a comment.

 

 

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Reserved for supporter list if wanted:

 

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Okay, to start my own comments, I'd like to explain what my intentions are and what they are not.

 

I believe in the magic of Humor and Common Sense, rather then restrictions and punishments!

 

I do not want to create a moralistic environment where teasing, poking and joking is unwanted!

I do not believe that we can tell anyone what to do, say or think!

Yet I believe that we can suggest to everyone, to reconsider his actions depending on the given circumstances.

??? Maybe it works ???

Well,

lets say there is a group of people on the MP server that simply wants to goof around and do stupid things.

Why not leave them alone and go to another server?

 

Lets say on the contrary:

there is a group of people on the MP server that wants to play fair, historically correct or just respectful in action and words.

Why not leave them alone if you are not in “that mood”.

 

I stop preaching for now and go shoot someone in RoF 

 

(to be continued)

CCC

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Edited December 20, 2020 by cpt_chaos_canada
update

[Cynic_Al]

I've never understood why people want to have so much unnecessary conversation in the first place.  I reckon there are only three essential phrases: 'Hi', 'Bye' and 'RTFM', and I'm not entirely sure about the first two.

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

He's Canadian, We're all polite so what do you expect him to say. 

[Feathered_IV]

17 hours ago, cpt_chaos_canada said:

Suggested sizes for signature are the 5 %or 10% versions.

The bigger ones are for your Coffee cup or such.

 

What a great idea.  A PP coffee mug would be the ideal gift for friends family and co-workers this Christmas.  Here's one suitable for embroidery or cross-stitch:

 

 

Is there a big one?  Like a really big one?  Something that could be used for say a quilt or a wall mural.  Or maybe a giant flag?

 

PP!

[BMA_Hellbender]

Big PP post right here.

[AndyJWest]

From what I can recall from my RoF multiplayer days, the chat there was generally a lot less toxic than I'd seen elsewhere. Haven't tried FC online though, so I don't know how true that still is. Maybe this is at least in part a generational thing. If you've grown up playing first-person shooters and the like, trash-talking your opponents is probably seen as normal, and even an effective tactic: get them riled, and they don't think straight. Definitely not something to be encouraged though, and I wish you luck with your endeavours. 

 

I'd agree that making a bit of allowance for people who may not have first-language-experience in English is definitely a good idea too. On the forums too: I've made posts myself that I've realised weren't really an appropriate response to someone struggling to write in a language that isn't their own. Sometimes, we need all to think a little more before posting. And maybe not post at all on occasion.

[=J18=CCC]

6 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

 

What a great idea.  A PP coffee mug would be the ideal gift for friends family and co-workers this Christmas.  Here's one suitable for embroidery or cross-stitch:

 

 

Is there a big one?  Like a really big one?  Something that could be used for say a quilt or a wall mural.  Or maybe a giant flag?

 

PP!

I"ll shoot you a pm. 

 

PP

[Beazil]

CCC that's a nice effort and endeavor.

6 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

Sometimes, we need all to think a little more before posting. And maybe not post at all on occasion.

Love Andy's post here.

[=J18=CCC]

Well, thank you all so far for a bit response!

 

I'm very happy that the FC2 is now available for preorder, it'll hopefully make some of the "discussions gone bad" especially in FC obsolete.

However theer are still  some burdens from past times to get rid of, right?

 

I just update the what If's section with the following:

 

What if:

 

- we could convince those who left the forums out of frustration about foul language, to rejoin?

 

- we could re-invite banned people, who are willing to adjust old habits when possible?

 

- we could encourage those who are carrying old deep wounds,

from verbal battles of the past,

to forgive and send their "arch enemies" a link to this thread? Maybe with just a "PP"?

 

 

CCC 

18 hours ago, NO.20_W_M_Thomson said:

He's Canadian, We're all polite so what do you expect him to say. 

 

We seem to be also a bit different aren't we?

CCC

6 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

From what I can recall from my RoF multiplayer days, the chat there was generally a lot less toxic than I'd seen elsewhere. Haven't tried FC online though, so I don't know how true that still is. Maybe this is at least in part a generational thing. If you've grown up playing first-person shooters and the like, trash-talking your opponents is probably seen as normal, and even an effective tactic: get them riled, and they don't think straight. Definitely not something to be encouraged though, and I wish you luck with your endeavours. 

 

I'd agree that making a bit of allowance for people who may not have first-language-experience in English is definitely a good idea too. On the forums too: I've made posts myself that I've realised weren't really an appropriate response to someone struggling to write in a language that isn't their own. Sometimes, we need all to think a little more before posting. And maybe not post at all on occasion.

 

That is probably the biggest reason, generational circumstances.

But not all of it IMHO.

 

I started this "Call to the wild" :), because I enjoy being a member in another hobby forum.

It's about RC Model Airplanes. It's international too and it shares partly the enthusiasm for the WWI niche.

People who trash conversations, robbing themselves and others to enjoy a "sideline" of the actual hobby.

You can make friends, even if it is only for a short time we are online, and enjoy the hobby even more.

Hence the creation of squadrons, right.

Likeminded people gathering in a group.

 

There is so much more  to say but I think that's enough for today.

Happy Flight Sim time to all.

 

CCC

Edited December 20, 2020 by cpt_chaos_canada

[Guest deleted@83466]

I'll be on comms tonight with a guitar, and we can all sing "Puff the Magic Dragon" before we take to the skies to extinguish each others virtual lives with Extreme Prejudice.

[BMA_Hellbender]

1 hour ago, cpt_chaos_canada said:

What if:

 

- we could convince those who left the forums out of frustration about foul language, to rejoin?

 

- we could re-invite banned people, who are willing to adjust old habits when possible?

 

- we could encourage those who are carrying old deep wounds,

from verbal battles of the past,

to forgive and send their "arch enemies" a link to this thread? Maybe with just a "PP"?

 

I'm not entirely sure if the "PP" thing is just one big troll. If it is I salute your dedication. Big PP energy right there.

 

If it's not a troll: haters gonna hate. Some people simply feel the need to voice their frustrations in chat. Be above all that, or turn off chat if it bothers you.

 

We're not here to make friends with everyone, only to play by the same rules. Forgive and forget, I always say — but keep logs of everything just in case.

 

 

  

23 hours ago, Cynic_Al said:

I've never understood why people want to have so much unnecessary conversation in the first place.  I reckon there are only three essential phrases: 'Hi', 'Bye' and 'RTFM', and I'm not entirely sure about the first two.

 

RTFM: "Rules for Thee, but not For Me"

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest deleted@83466]

Goes to show that even a broken clock is correct twice a day. ?

[BraveSirRobin]

The best way to make that the chat is polite is to not read the chat.  

[Guest deleted@83466]

I don't think that the OP is joking or trolling.  I suspect he might be on a Mission From God.  

[No.23_Triggers]

29 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

The best way to make that the chat is polite is to not read the chat.  

Spot on. 

@cpt_chaos_canada It's a nice sentiment, but you'd have an easier time herding cats in the dark than you would getting people to be polite and respectful to each other over the internet...
...Especially in the FC community, deary me....

Edited December 20, 2020 by US93_Larner

[Guest deleted@83466]

And while we're at it, screw you, Larner!!!

 

???

[No.23_Triggers]

8 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said:

And while we're at it, screw you, Larner!!!

 

???

...If only we'd had our "politer piloting" forum signatures on the other day. Oh well. Hindsight is 20-20...

[Guest deleted@83466]

Yes, what a wonderful world it could have been.....

 

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to my show.  I'm marathoning all 9 seasons of The Waltons on the Hallmark Channel.  Goodnight, John Boy.

Edited December 20, 2020 by SeaSerpent

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

3 hours ago, cpt_chaos_canada said:

We seem to be also a bit different aren't we?

No we have those white sandy beaches here in B.C. too.

37 minutes ago, US93_Larner said:

...Especially in the FC community, deary me....

I don't a lot of bad attacks on FC. Maybe some goading going on nothing that bad. Mostly pretty civil.

[Guest deleted@83466]

Hollywood should make a movie called Gramm and Grahamarer.

 

 

[ST_Catchov]

Great post cpt_chaos! I have faith in human nature that people will now pause and reflect before exhibiting distasteful anti-social behaviour and to forgive the cheating Central scum wot started it.

[=J18=FritzGerald]

I support CCC's postion because:

1---RoF and FC are both simulators

2---As simulators they were both created for our enjoyment

3---There is already enough hate and anger in the world

4---We shouldn't let that hate and anger carry over into a place where we are all trying to have fun

 

Just my thoughts on the matter chaps...take them or leave them

Salute!

-Gerald

[BraveSirRobin]

Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here!  This is the War Room!!

[No.23_Gaylion]

Now which way does the PP dress in regards to shooting parachutes?

[Guest deleted@83466]

26 minutes ago, US213_Talbot said:

Now which way does the PP dress in regards to shooting parachutes?

 

That wouldn't be very Polite Piloter-ish of you.

[BMA_Hellbender]

On the bright side: we’ve already reached Covid herd immunity in this community. The virus never stood a chance in an environment this salty.

 

 

EDIT: After reading your PM I'm inclined to believe this is a genuine post that comes from a good place, so more power to you sir. I would stick with the traditional "S!" if you wish to salute your opponent. Also, join other pilots on Discord here: https://discord.gg/h8MRmyN

 

PP out.

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by J5_Hellbender

[Zooropa_Fly]

It's really up to the server owners to 'police' their patch.

 

Not sure about Flugpark, but in general the chat is used much less in BoX than RoF.

Some of the ww2 servers nobody says anything and the old 'S!' just isn't part of it.

Anyone using VR will not likely be using the chat much anyway.

 

I prefer the chaos of the RoF chat window, but you have to accept that not all of us behave in the same way.

You could get a group of primary school kids to respond to this, but a desperate group of grumpy old b*st*rds and the youth of today...

 

The bad egg in RoF just now may well have been the catalyst for this post - but he'd just laugh about it all, and consider his mission even more of a success because of it.

So if he's that much of a nuissance - it's the server operators that need to deal with it.

All we can do is report the behaviour - or use the 'kick' and 'ban' options.

 

S!

[Cynic_Al]

17 hours ago, J5_Hellbender said:

RTFM: "Rules for Thee, but not For Me"

 

 

Really Thought the Fool Might just publish the screenshot, and incredibly he fell for it.  Finally a constructive purpose for the chat.

[Cynic_Al]

5 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

It's really up to the server owners to 'police' their patch.

 

..................

 

The bad egg in RoF just now may well have been the catalyst for this post - but he'd just laugh about it all, and consider his mission even more of a success because of it.

So if he's that much of a nuisance - it's the server operators that need to deal with it.

All we can do is report the behaviour - or use the 'kick' and 'ban' options.

 

 

Speaking as a casual observer, it seems to me that all server operators are obliged to have in place an automated means of identifying the accounts of known undesirables, such that they may be ejected upon connection.  Any operator unable or unwilling to implement such a system, may wish to consider their server's fitness for purpose, and by extension its legitimacy to continue in operation.

[Zooropa_Fly]

26 minutes ago, Cynic_Al said:

 

 

Speaking as a casual observer, it seems to me that all server operators are obliged to have in place an automated means of identifying the accounts of known undesirables, such that they may be ejected upon connection.  Any operator unable or unwilling to implement such a system, may wish to consider their server's fitness for purpose, and by extension its legitimacy to continue in operation.

 

I have to disagree here.

Firstly you're not so much a 'casual observer', as a long time server operator.

 

I'm not sure where any obligation comes from. I've never seen anything to do with running a flying server mentioned in the Bible nor the Koran.

And I'm not aware of any UN, EU, or Westminster dictats on the subject either.

 

So whilst it may be preferable to some for a server to be tightly regulated, it's clearly not practically possible in a lot of cases.

The server provider has paid for the game, and pays the bills to keep the server up.

Thus has the perogative to run it and completely ignore what goes on, leaving human nature to take care of itself.

 

Other people's behaviour is not the responsibility of the server provider.

[No.23_Gaylion]

There are methods to ban people in the server given enough people vote for it. 

[Guest deleted@83466]

26 minutes ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

 

 

 

Other people's behaviour is not the responsibility of the server provider.

 

If they actually want to be populated, you're damned right it is.  To me, it's like a bar or a restaurant.  It can be a dive or a greasy spoon, or it can be classy and upscale.  To say server operators have no responsibility for what happens there and to totally let them off the hook for the clientele that is welcome there,  is nonsense.  Completely.  If someone runs a crappy server populated by a bunch of imbeciles, they bear some responsibility.  Fortunately, they will likely see much lessened numbers as a result.

[=J18=CCC]

Below is an honest expressed opinion and tribute from a Multiplayer server Operator,

I copied the text but also provide the link:

https://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/55596-new-fliers-and-friends-servers/?p=713806

 

Here is an example of a long time RoF and FC member, that runs by now several servers on RoF and one on FC, 

he is one of the people who abandoned the forums because of the "foul language" and the "bitching and bickering" issues of the past.

 

(I wish he and others would return)

 

-------------- copied from the link above for you convenience --------------------

 

My tribute to Phil Larson and a few words to the ROF community

 

Oct 30st.

So that you know, Phil Larson, the long time owner and operator, and my friend, of the =NFF= servers has passed away.

I have been, and will continue to maintain his server, in his memory, on my machine. I already moved his files from his New Hampshire server and am running a server now.

 

He was a decorated Vietnam vet as well.

 

Nov 5^th.

I started my servers while "Patriarch", (Phil) was still with us. I communicated with him on a regular basis and did my best to maintain, and keep his servers running. It was done out of the love and respect that I had for him, and his love of the game.

 

I was never, and am in no way in competition with any ROF servers. I am no different than the others. I am trying to keep the game alive and give people choices.

If I only get one player in my server, and he or she enjoyed themselves, I have accomplished my goal.

 

I applaud all of the other servers and the time and effort they put into their presentation. I'm pretty sure they have the same goal in mind. I know, as do they, it can be time consuming, exhausting, and a frustrating experience at times. I believe that the reason we all undertake this task (labour of love)is for the love of the game and desire to keep this simulator alive and well.

 

 

 

My approach on server policies:

 

Nov 7^th.

No owner/operator or administrator of any game server can, or should be expected to monitor the game activity on a 24/7 basis.

Anyone that puts a game server online is doing that for your enjoyment.

The game is yours to play and enjoy.

There are many ROF enthusiast out there. I would expect, and hope that those same ROF enthusiast would, for instance, point out to an unruly player, "The error of his ways" 

I would hope that if you can, and are willing to help them , (If not engaged in a fight) you would do that. I have seen that happen on many occasion , and I applaud those that do so !

 

That brings up another point.

Teamspeak-3 is a great tool for in-game communication.

 

https://www.teamspea...ihoCHdwQAvD_BwE

 

It is an easy way to communicate with your own teammates for strategy, join the lobby for a BS session, or lend instruction to a new fellow pilot in need of answers.

I set up a Teamspeak-3 server that will accommodate the "New Fliers and Friends" server, and my "Bataan F/C, and Bataan_2 ROF" servers.

The connection Nickname is: camel.ddnsfree.com

 

We (All of the ROF servers) present the game to you, thanks to the efforts of the developers. What you do with that opportunity is up to you as the players.

 

These comments are my thoughts. They are not in anyway to be a verbal thrashing to or about anyone 

 

 

 

Some technicalities:

I am located on the South East coast of the Commonwealth Virginia.

I do not have an elaborate set up. My servers are all run on one machine:

Flying Circus,

My Bataan_2 ROF,

Phil's =NFF=,

and the TS-3 server.

I do run a FIOS Fiber/ with 1GB up and down.

The machine specs are fine.

It doesn't break a sweat, Gigabyte MOBO/AMD 8350 CPU, with 32GB of RAM.

 

The server name, and maps will not change! I will try to rotate the maps when I can, and will change the "in map" pop-ups to display the proper TS_3 address, and other info as well. When I have the opportunity.

I would also like to build some new maps. (suggested content is welcome)

 

Thanks for your time, Ken

 

--------- end of copied text --------------

 

CCC     

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by cpt_chaos_canada

[Zooropa_Fly]

1 hour ago, SeaSerpent said:

 

If they actually want to be populated, you're damned right it is.  To me, it's like a bar or a restaurant.  It can be a dive or a greasy spoon, or it can be classy and upscale.  To say server operators have no responsibility for what happens there and to totally let them off the hook for the clientele that is welcome there,  is nonsense.  Completely.  If someone runs a crappy server populated by a bunch of imbeciles, they bear some responsibility.  Fortunately, they will likely see much lessened numbers as a result.

 

Is a crappy server for imbeciles a bad thing ?

[Cynic_Al]

1 hour ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

 

Is a crappy server for imbeciles a bad thing ?

 

Just to be clear, is that a confession?

[Zooropa_Fly]

22 minutes ago, Cynic_Al said:

 

Just to be clear, is that a confession?

 

Just to be clear - if there was a server where anything goes that the bad boys decided was their cup of tea, it would keep that kind of player away from the more discerning servers such as your own. So would that be a bad thing ?

[Cynic_Al]

4 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

 

I'm not sure where any obligation comes from. I've never seen anything to do with running a flying server mentioned in the Bible nor the Koran.

And I'm not aware of any UN, EU, or Westminster dictats on the subject either.

 

 

In an ideal world it would be subject to internationally-ratified rules, however I should have thought it obvious that I meant an obligation based on expected standards of practice.

 

 

4 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

Other people's behaviour is not the responsibility of the server provider.

 

Nobody's saying it is; but operators must ensure as far as possible that known unwanted behaviour be suppressed by all practical means.

 

 

1 hour ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

Just to be clear - if there was a server where anything goes that the bad boys decided was their cup of tea, it would keep that kind of player away from the more discerning servers such as your own.

 

In theory perhaps, however in practice that isn't quite what happens, but that's a matter for another time.
 

[J2_Trupobaw]

On 12/20/2020 at 8:27 PM, SeaSerpent said:

I'll be on comms tonight with a guitar, and we can all sing "Puff the Magic Dragon" before we take to the skies to extinguish each others virtual lives with Extreme Prejudice.

And then we can sing "another one bites the dust". 
  (Just kidding. Serpent with guitar is not something I'm ready for, PP or not).
 

On 12/20/2020 at 1:39 AM, NO.20_W_M_Thomson said:

He's Canadian, We're all polite so what do you expect him to say. 

Yeah, until someone reminds you that Billy Bishop made up 2/3 of his claims ? .

That one Canadian I had pleasure of flying with for significant time was many things: witty, sarcastic, hold-nothing-back-spare-no-feelings sincere, excellent conversationalist overall. But polite?

[J2_Bidu]

20 minutes ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

[...] witty, sarcastic, hold-nothing-back-spare-no-feelings sincere, excellent conversationalist overall. But polite?

 

Implacability and politeness are not antonyms. I checked.

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

7 hours ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

Yeah, until someone reminds you that Billy Bishop made up 2/3 of his claims ? .

That one Canadian I had pleasure of flying with for significant time was many things: witty, sarcastic, hold-nothing-back-spare-no-feelings sincere, excellent conversationalist overall. But polite?

Way to paint all Canadians with 1 paint brush.