AI Insane roll issue

[Rei-sen]

Hi everyone. I've decided to create a topic specifically dedicated to the AI roll issue. I've recorded the issue and I also have a track file.

This was recorded in the Quick Mission "Dogfight: Allied Advantage". Please notice that the AI uses the same aircraft type as me (Kittyhawk), our airspeed is roughly the same but AI is able to roll several times faster than me. Even with full aileron deflection I'm not even close to it's insane roll speed:
 

I hope @Buzzsaw and other Team Fusion devs find this video helpful. I really appreciate the work you've done on this sim. However, this issue is significantly spoiling the Single Player gameplay. I hope it will be fixed in future. I've also attached the track file for anyone who wants to take a closer look.

insane roll.zip

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

I‘ve noticed this in the Kittyhawk as well. Sometimes I just wait behind them until they stop. Sometimes they won’t stop and crash into the ground. It doesn‘t seem to affect other types as much. At least I haven‘t noticed it yet (Spitfires and Hurricanes). I didn‘t do any tests though, just from flying quick missions.

[jollyjack]

v 014; Just tried a D520, it seems the same.

BTW anyone with tips on tuning a Warthog X and Y axes for the joystick? Tried several settings of the 3 sliders, but i can't get it right ...

 

And then the sun, is there a way to trim that darn thing, like a mod or so? 

[Buzzsaw]

We are looking at this.

[Buzzsaw]

Ok, we found the issue which was causing the extreme rollrates with AI aircraft.

 

There will be a correction for all AI aircraft in the next patch.

 

Which unfortunately will not be till mid January as the combination of the North American and Euro holiday period and the later Russian holidays, (1C technical staff is based in Moscow) means there is a huge blank spot between now and when we can get this patch up on Steam.

 

Thanks for everyone's patience.  ?

[ATAG_Flare]

On 12/17/2020 at 5:30 PM, Buzzsaw said:

Ok, we found the issue which was causing the extreme rollrates with AI aircraft.

 

There will be a correction for all AI aircraft in the next patch.

 

Which unfortunately will not be till mid January as the combination of the North American and Euro holiday period and the later Russian holidays, (1C technical staff is based in Moscow) means there is a huge blank spot between now and when we can get this patch up on Steam.

 

Thanks for everyone's patience.  ?

 

That's great news! One of the long-standing CloD AI issues, a fix would really help a lot. Hats off to the programmer(s) who managed to unearth that one!

[=SqSq=SignorMagnifico]

This issue still appears to be present in the current CLOD version. The AI also seems to have a sixth sense for when you're shooting at it. For example, if I manage to sneak up on an enemy fighter and start shooting at about 250m, the AI instantly reacts as soon as I press the trigger before the bullets even reach him. I've had a much easier time shooting down real people in multiplayer, but the reaction times with the AI right now seem inhuman.

Edited September 26, 2022 by =SqSq=SignorMagnifico

[No.54_Reddog]

A lot depends on the AI settings used, certainly the AI used to react as your gun sight got to the correct point to hit them before you'd even fired. Let's be honest, the AI as a whole needs drastic overhaul to make it better. I have seen Buzzsaw post in the past that they know about it, we just have to be patient and wait for the changes to come. They did try to recruit the AI programmer from Rowans Battle of Britain IIRC but he didn't come on board for reasons. (Depends who you ask as to why apparently)

[Rei-sen]

Well, that sucks.

[FTC_Karaya]

Some AI aircraft like the P-40s and 109Fs still have incredibly high roll rates and seem to make use of the old "endless barrel roll" tactic that should be a thing of the past by now.

[Dagwoodyt]

My impression is that this AI behavior has seen improvement since the OP clip was recorded. I opened a single mission I had made and flew a Spitfire Ia (100 octane) first against a 109E4 and then against a Kittyhawk. The E4 had all AI skill settings at or near max. I would like to believe that the E4 skill settings would be carried over to the Kittyhawk.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Dagwoodyt

[Enceladus828]

After reading someone's comment on the IL-2 GBs section in which the CR. 42 rolls like a Pitts Special, I did a Gladiator vs CR. 42 in the Quick Mission Red One on One and the CR. 42 still does insane aileron rolls.

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

51 minutes ago, Enceladus said:

After reading someone's comment on the IL-2 GBs section in which the CR. 42 rolls like a Pitts Special, I did a Gladiator vs CR. 42 in the Quick Mission Red One on One and the CR. 42 still does insane aileron rolls.

 
But is it like a Pitts Special? Because if not, that hyperbole will invalidate the whole argument that it rolls too much and actually flys like a Tie Fighter.

[Rei-sen]

Nothing has been done to address this issue whatsoever.

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

On 9/26/2022 at 5:58 AM, =SqSq=SignorMagnifico said:

This issue still appears to be present in the current CLOD version. The AI also seems to have a sixth sense for when you're shooting at it. For example, if I manage to sneak up on an enemy fighter and start shooting at about 250m, the AI instantly reacts as soon as I press the trigger before the bullets even reach him. I've had a much easier time shooting down real people in multiplayer, but the reaction times with the AI right now seem inhuman.

IIRC this has been the case since initial release. One of the things that annoyed me the most when I used to fly the dogfight axis advantage quick mission a lot.

[BOO]

1 hour ago, Buffo002 said:

Read carefully the second link from "Buzzsaw" January 2023

Don’t think we are the ones who need to read carefully

 

that post is from Dec 2020. 

[=SqSq=SignorMagnifico]

Is single player playable, yet, or are the AI still rolling all over the place?

[BENKOE]

There was a recent discussion here on the same topic:

.... and the roll rate of AI is insane..

 

3 hours ago, =SqSq=SignorMagnifico said:

Is single player playable, yet, or are the AI still rolling all over the place?