AMD GPUs

[I.JG3_CDRSEABEE]

Anyone going to get a Big Navi for VR?

 

In Reddit there people having issues with the G2 and the new AMD cards.

[AuburnAlumni]

I'm trying my luck at grabbing one this week.  Outside of Ray Tracing (Which I give 2 flips about) it's pretty much on a wash between Big Navi and RTX this year performance wise.  Both are great cards.

[Dutch2]

I know its not the G2 nor IL2 thats being tested but https://babeltechreviews.com/vr-wars-the-rx-6800-xt-vs-the-rtx-3080-15-vr-games-performance-benchmarked/?amp=1  is interesting. 

 

edit: in the comments below you read they are going to test the G2, lets hope by that time the AMD drivers are repaired for the AMD 60000 range. BTW nearly the same name, but its not me. 

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by Dutch2

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

It's a non conclusive test. An extensive one, but that doesn't help. //edit: Thank you chili, so the resolution is 9Mio pixels. They should mention that.

 

They don't mention the resolution.

 

100% SteamVR SS is not a resolution. Its output also always different per headset.

 

The 6800xt does not scale linearly performance wise to resolution. Many testers noted a performance fall-off at 4K compared to the RTX3000 series. In VR we are playing at more than 4K (which is 8.3Mio pixels). We are at 9.5Mio or more, and want 90Hz.

Edited November 26, 2020 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[blue_max]

I have a 5700XT now and definitely getting a 6800XT. That being said, I have a G2 that is currently not working. GRRRRR super annoying. Apparently the problem is not the videocard but the USB controller on the motherboard. Something with the cable being too long. They're trying to fix it but no ETA.

[Varibraun]

8 hours ago, blue_max said:

I have a G2 that is currently not working.

 

Not saying this is your problem, but just be sure that the cable is fully seated in the headset portion. 

 

In the "I am an idiot category," I spent a lot of time on the computer end of the cables when my problem was on the other end.  Because that connector is deep into the headset slot, I thought it was plugged in when it wasn't (even after double checking it).  It is amazing the range of emotion being your own problem can bring...

[chiliwili69]

10 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

They don't mention the resolution

 

I tell you.

The VivePro with SteamVR at 100%SS is 2016x2240 per eye (exactly the same res than Index at 100%). This is 9Million pixel total.

The Reverb G1 at 100% is 9.5 million pixels.

A 4K monitor is 8.3 million pixels.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

They should add this information. Now the test made sense to me, very good.

 

I'm happy I have kept my RTX 3080 Trio X Gaming. I may look to exchange it for a 6900XT in December.

[blue_max]

14 hours ago, Varibraun said:

 

Not saying this is your problem, but just be sure that the cable is fully seated in the headset portion. 

 

In the "I am an idiot category," I spent a lot of time on the computer end of the cables when my problem was on the other end.  Because that connector is deep into the headset slot, I thought it was plugged in when it wasn't (even after double checking it).  It is amazing the range of emotion being your own problem can bring...

I actually did this too at the beginning! it should go a lot deeper than you'd expect. But no, this is not the current problem.

[Varibraun]

 

 

6 hours ago, blue_max said:

I actually did this too at the beginning! it should go a lot deeper than you'd expect. But no, this is not the current problem.

 

Well...that makes me feel a little better that I am not the only one.  Sorry that you are still dealing with the USB though.  You have probably seen this already, but Don's post below has the latest AMA and they are talking about your issue there.  Sorry to go off topic...getting the thread back on track, I am looking forward to the G2 getting to the experts in this thread to see how the AMD builds are treating it.  I may have to consider a new build next year...about 2 years sooner than planned.

 

[Alonzo]

On 11/26/2020 at 1:23 PM, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

I'm happy I have kept my RTX 3080 Trio X Gaming. I may look to exchange it for a 6900XT in December.

 

I bagged a 3080 FTW3 Ultra from EVGA, and as noted in another thread I got about 50% performance uplift in IL2 (which as Chili pointed out might actually be slightly CPU constrained, so it could be more). I am really hoping the 3080ti 20GB comes out in January and I can do a "step up" to that card. I think the AMD cards are better value and I like them much more as a company right now, but 3080 seems to be beating the 6800XT in VR games, for whatever reason (possibly drivers being better).

[blitze]

Interesting topic.

 

Due to availability and pricing I am holding out on an update but will observe how the 6800XT matures with drivers over the coming couple months as stock becomes more available - if it doesn't improve much - I might opt for a 3080 refresh.

 

That is if there is any stock and prices aren't stratospheric

[chiliwili69]

14 hours ago, Alonzo said:

but 3080 seems to be beating the 6800XT in VR games

 

Not exactly true. On the tests performed by babeltechreviews, there were 3 or 4 games with DX11 and the FireStrike (DX11) where the AMD was better. Let´s see if we can test it with IL-2.

Edited December 2, 2020 by chiliwili69

[Voyager]

@chiliwili69 My understanding is, it would not be VR so much, as it would be 4k resolution. My understanding of the RX 6000 series is they are using a large on die cache to allow them to get comparable effective memory performance with GDDR6 as nVidia is getting out of GDDR6X, but the draw back is that the cache needs to be sized for the resolution. AMD sized it for 4k, which makes the most sense, in general, and means it performs very well at sub 4k resolutions. The trade off is, it performs worse once you have more than the 8.2m pixels 4K uses. That seems to be reflected in a lot of the benchmarks, that typically show the 6800 XT and 3080 trading places, or the 3080 slightly ahead at 4k, and the 6800 XT being faster at 1440 or 1080p.

 

I think what we are seeing in VR is the limitation of using the infinity cache with >9m pixel displays, rather than a specific VR limitation.

[chiliwili69]

2 hours ago, Voyager said:

it performs worse once you have more than the 8.2m pixels 4K uses.

 

But then, how do you explain that there is 4 games (out of 15) were the 6800XT perform better in VR:

 

Assetto Corsa: 3080 = 110 %
Ark Park: 3080 = 152 %
Boneworks: 3080 = 91 %
Elite Dangerous: 3080 = 104 %
FallOut 4: 3080 = 95 %
Alyx: 3080 = 109 %
Hellblade: 3080 = 113 %
Into the Radius: 3080 = 111 %
No Man’s Sky: 3080 = 116 %
Obduction: 3080 = 116 %
Project Cars 2: 3080 = 96 %
Skyrim VR: 3080 = 118 %
Subnautica; 3080 = 92 %
Ethan Carter: 3080 = 103 %
Saints & Sinners: 3080 = 103 %

 

or even more clear, how do you explain the in the Syntethic benchmarks in Firestrike (Dx11) at 4K performs better.

 

Or these games (MFS2020 and others) at 4K:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEWB_lODpNg

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

6 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

Not exactly true. On the tests performed by babeltechreviews, there were 3 or 4 games with DX11 and the FireStrike (DX11) where the AMD was better. Let´s see if we can test it with IL-2.

They are close in raw performance but second gen DLSS and RT is what make green team better option I think.  Mainly 4k and VR , not all cup of coffee,  AMD enough for HD and cheaper. 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

On DLSS: I don't think 1CGS is sending IL-2 to train at Nvidia for DLSS.

 

Or that we'll get the DX12 update we (well, I do) long for in any amount of reasonable time.

 

And Epic already stated they aren't including proprietary software into the main of their engine!

 

So the argument of DLSS is something I thought about as well, but after consideration I deemed it nill and void.

 

In German we call that a "Luftnummer".

 

P.s. This also affects DXR/RTX (DX12).

Edited December 2, 2020 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[blitze]

Take also into consideration that Il2 with DX11 is al;ready offloading the render to the GPU now with deferred rendering.

 

More important for VR (at least for Wide FOV VR) would be Foreated Rendering be it Fixed or Eye Tracked as opposed to DLSS.

 

Also - Ray Tracing I doubt will be introduced into Il2 for quite some time and as for AMD's implementation of it - I think we will have to see how their drivers mature and the techniques they employ.  They have cornered both the PS5 and new X-Box and RT will be implemented on those so AMD must be working on something but Nvidia does have a good leg up in the field of RT at this point in time.  Not relevant to us though - yet.

 

In raw rasterization, they are close but I think the AMD cards have more headroom but that could be negated by a Nvidia 30xx  refresh on a smaller process node.  Time will tell and at this point in time - stock is limited on both sides.

[AlphaRayTheReal]

On 11/25/2020 at 1:36 AM, CDRSEABEE said:

Anyone going to get a Big Navi for VR?

 

In Reddit there people having issues with the G2 and the new AMD cards.

 

I'm not using AMD graphics cards anymore (and will never use again) because there are several Apps using CUDA only.  E.g. Photo/video editing, photogrammertry and that stuff.  And RTX ist not only nice for gaming but also for rendering - like in Blender 

[I.JG3_CDRSEABEE]

23 minutes ago, AlphaRayTheReal said:

 

I'm not using AMD graphics cards anymore (and will never use again) because there are several Apps using CUDA only.  E.g. Photo/video editing, photogrammertry and that stuff.  And RTX ist not only nice for gaming but also for rendering - like in Blender 

My 3080 will be here today!

[nickj123]

Must admit, I'm a little underwhelmed by the performance of the 6800XT in VR on the Reverb G1 - struggling to get 70fps even after tweaking and compromising on some of the settings.

[Voyager]

2 minutes ago, nickj123 said:

Must admit, I'm a little underwhelmed by the performance of the 6800XT in VR on the Reverb G1 - struggling to get 70fps even after tweaking and compromising on some of the settings.

What is the rest of your system config? 

 

Also: Il-2 benchmark is here: 

 

[nickj123]

It's pretty good, I have an I9-9900, 64GB of 3200 RAM, M2 drive. I did run SYN_Vader's benchmark before I swapped in the new card. I had a 2080 Super previously and at 4k res on ultra settings it was hitting 51fps, this went up to 71fps with the 6800XT - so a definite improvement. VR is a different ballgame though and I've had to drop a lot of the settings to try and keep that 70fps.

[HunDread]

49 minutes ago, nickj123 said:

It's pretty good, I have an I9-9900, 64GB of 3200 RAM, M2 drive. I did run SYN_Vader's benchmark before I swapped in the new card. I had a 2080 Super previously and at 4k res on ultra settings it was hitting 51fps, this went up to 71fps with the 6800XT - so a definite improvement. VR is a different ballgame though and I've had to drop a lot of the settings to try and keep that 70fps.

 

Are you having hard time getting 70 FPS in the benchmark only or in your normal use case of IL-2 too?

[nickj123]

 

27 minutes ago, HunDread said:

 

Are you having hard time getting 70 FPS in the benchmark only or in your normal use case of IL-2 too?

 

Normal use case for VR - don't get me wrong it's certainly playable at 70fps, it's just I'd hoped the performance in VR would have been a bit better. I'll prob look to get a 3080Ti if/when they're released as I reckon that may give another 10fps.

[HogMenTheHog107]

2 hours ago, nickj123 said:

It's pretty good, I have an I9-9900, 64GB of 3200 RAM, M2 drive. I did run SYN_Vader's benchmark before I swapped in the new card. I had a 2080 Super previously and at 4k res on ultra settings it was hitting 51fps, this went up to 71fps with the 6800XT - so a definite improvement. VR is a different ballgame though and I've had to drop a lot of the settings to try and keep that 70fps.

isn't that a 39% increase in fps?  that sounds awesome to me.

 

 

[chiliwili69]

2 hours ago, nickj123 said:

I did run SYN_Vader's benchmark

Please, please, could you report your benchmark results for CPU test, GPU test and VR before and after the swap of the new card? This will be a very valious info to all of us. And can compare 6800XT vs 3080 in IL-2 in 4K and VR.

[nickj123]

Just now, chiliwili69 said:

Please, please, could you report your benchmark results for CPU test, GPU test and VR before and after the swap of the new card? This will be a very valious info to all of us. And can compare 6800XT vs 3080 in IL-2 in 4K and VR.

 

I won't be able to do the old card, but I'll run the benchmarks for the 6800XT following your recommended settings.

[chiliwili69]

2 minutes ago, nickj123 said:

I'll run the benchmarks for the 6800XT following your recommended settings.

That will be perfect. The interest is in the 6800XT. But run the three tests (CPU, GPU, VR) so we get the full picture.

Edited December 2, 2020 by chiliwili69

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

6 minutes ago, HogMenTheHog107 said:

isn't that a 39% increase in fps?  that sounds awesome to me.

 

 

It's not awesome if considered the normal 3080 holds 90fps straight

 

hopefully it's a settings issue. I am aiming to get the 6900xt to compare here

[Voyager]

26 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

It's not awesome if considered the normal 3080 holds 90fps straight

 

hopefully it's a settings issue. I am aiming to get the 6900xt to compare here

Does it hold 90fps straight on a 9900k? Or just on Zen 3 chips? I didn't see any 9900k + 3080 tests in the benchmark table, but I may have simply missed them, 

[nickj123]

1 hour ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

It's not awesome if considered the normal 3080 holds 90fps straight

 

hopefully it's a settings issue. I am aiming to get the 6900xt to compare here

 

I think it's a driver/Il-2 issue. I've now run the benchmarks properly and it definitely underperforms at higher resolutions compared to the 3080. In other game benchmarks at 1440p the results were much better - typically 40-50% faster than the RTX2080 Super I had before.

[Alonzo]

11 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

On DLSS: I don't think 1CGS is sending IL-2 to train at Nvidia for DLSS.

 

That was DLSS 1.0, with the new one you don't need special training, the algorithm is general enough to work on 'all' games.

 

That said, the consoles are using checkerboard rendering, rather than DLSS, for their 4K upscaling and apparently it works great, you can't tell the difference between true 4K and 1600p + checkerboard.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

1 hour ago, Alonzo said:

 

That was DLSS 1.0, with the new one you don't need special training, the algorithm is general enough to work on 'all' games.

 

That said, the consoles are using checkerboard rendering, rather than DLSS, for their 4K upscaling and apparently it works great, you can't tell the difference between true 4K and 1600p + checkerboard.

Rephrased: Wait, does this work on deferred shading on DX11?

Edited December 2, 2020 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[Alonzo]

15 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Rephrased: Wait, does this work on deferred shading on DX11?

 

I'm not sure. The consoles have some hardware in the chip that helps with checkerboard rendering, but I also see on a Reddit explanation that Valve and others have implemented it in their VR pipelines for various games. AMD has a forthcoming competitor to DLSS that they have announced but not released. Our best hope is for a driver-level option, because it's unlikely (IMO) that the IL2 developers will have time to implement GPU-specific technologies. I'm unsure if we can use Nvidia Inspector to 'force' enable DLSS, but that could be interesting.

 

The Pimax dynamic foveated rendering at the driver level gives me hope that something could be possible at the driver level to improve VR performance. Fixed foveated rendering, or even a simple "4x MSAA in the center, nothing in the periphery" mask could give us a boost too.