How often does the AI in this game leave you frustrated?

[Sky_Wolf]

There are countless threads that cover the artificial intelligence (AI) problems in this game. A recent one is this: 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Sky_Wolf

[Avimimus]

It depends on what you mean by frustration? AI still gets stuck in circling behaviours to some extent (which was the case in RoF and I'm pretty nonchalant about it now)... and AI does't disengage as much as it should... and the ability to order tactics (e.g. order allies to attack specific ground targets) is limited... but I take it this poll is about behaviours in a campaign?

[Jade_Monkey]

As a mission maker, it drives me nuts when the AI does not want to take off or taxi correctly and it ruins a ton of work put into building the mission.

 

As a virtual pilot, i think the AI dogfighting skills have improved exponentially within the last two releases and the enemies are really pulling awesome fights. They just need to stop spraying all their ammo and take a burst approach. Im very happy with the current enemy AI.

[vonGraf]

Yep, the bursts are much too long. It seems to be worse if they use the gunpods (Bf-109)

Had yesterday two AI comrades chasing the same Mig-3 shooting simultaneously wasting all their ammo at him. And they did almost collide or got in friendly fire. The Mig-3 was just slightly steaming/losing fuel at the end.

Within 2 minutes after the begin of the engagement 4 of 6 planes went home because ammo.

 

Maneuvering and 'dogfighting' are good so far I can say. Much better than 2 years ago when I played the first time.

Edited January 24, 2021 by vonGraf

[Thad]

Poll is scewed. There is not an option for not being frustrated with the games AI. 

[Jade_Monkey]

The bursts have been reported in the beta branch. Like anything else, it takes time to work on it and things need to be prioritized. However I believe the devs are aware of it 

[=J18=FritzGerald]

The thing that frusterates me the most is when I'm in quick missions my wingmen will one by one pull out of the formation and dive purposely into the ground, happens with friendlies and enemies. All I can do is just sit by and watch, this has happened in career mode, but less often

[[DBS]Browning]

Never! I don't fly singleplayer at all.

[2/JG26_rudidlo]

14 hours ago, [DBS]Browning said:

Never! I don't fly singleplayer at all.

Even when you're playing multiplayer, there is AI involved in flaks, at some maps also in ships, trucks and trains.

[Feathered_IV]

The AI used to be terrible.  But over time it has improved to the point where it is nothing special.

[Lusekofte]

On 12/5/2020 at 12:26 PM, Feathered_IV said:

The AI used to be terrible.  But over time it has improved to the point where it is nothing special.

AI problems materials itself quite often using COOP and Patric Wilson . I believe making a single player scenario is problematic , making the ai do what you want. 

In other aspects I find ai greeatly improved

[Cynic_Al]

On 12/5/2020 at 11:26 AM, Feathered_IV said:

The AI used to be terrible.  But over time it has improved to the point where it is nothing special.

 

Not saying you're wrong, but it causes me to wonder why you wouldn't prefer to fly against bio-players.

[Cynic_Al]

How often does a meaningless question leave you frustrated?  This poll should offer a list of common reasons for frustration; as-is the results cannot be usefully interpreted.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

1 hour ago, Cynic_Al said:

 

Not saying you're wrong, but it causes me to wonder why you wouldn't prefer to fly against bio-players.

 

Single player has many advantages

• No need for good internet connection
• Freedom to choose the desired mission type, duration, realism, and difficulty at any time
• (Somewhat) historically accurate unit sizes, compositions, and tactics instead of the usual ultra-competitive MP behaviour
• No risk of cheaters or bad faith players
• No pressure to engage in social interactions (if that's something you don't want to deal with)
• Options for rich role playing in your virtual career
• No restrictions on mods

Edited January 22, 2021 by Mitthrawnuruodo

[Cynic_Al]

On 1/22/2021 at 3:55 AM, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

 

Single player has many advantages

• No need for good internet connection
• Freedom to choose the desired mission type, duration, realism, and difficulty at any time
• (Somewhat) historically accurate unit sizes, compositions, and tactics instead of the usual ultra-competitive MP behaviour
• No risk of cheaters or bad faith players
• No pressure to engage in social interactions (if that's something you don't want to deal with)
• Options for rich role playing in your virtual career
• No restrictions on mods

 

All of which is overridden by:

• Not knowing how good you are.

Edited June 18, 2022 by Cynic_Al

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Just now, Cynic_Al said:

All of which is overridden by:

• No knowing how good you are.

 

Who cares? Not everything has to be a competition, especially when virtual victories are ultimately meaningless unless you have fun in the process.

[Cynic_Al]

10 minutes ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

 

Who cares? Not everything has to be a competition, especially when virtual victories are ultimately meaningless unless you have fun in the process.

 

Oh yes of course, I neglected to consider the fun derived from flying against Il2-calibre bots.  How could I have forgotten that?

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

24 minutes ago, Cynic_Al said:

Oh yes of course, I neglected to consider the fun derived from flying against Il2-calibre bots.  How could I have forgotten that?

 

Clearly some people are enjoying Career, PWCG, Scripted Campaigns, and other SP items. Perhaps they're unknowingly not having fun.

Edited January 22, 2021 by Mitthrawnuruodo

[Cynic_Al]

On 11/30/2020 at 4:20 PM, Thad said:

Poll is scewed. There is not an option for not being frustrated with the games AI. 

 

I wonder if that was that meant to be 'skewed' or 'screwed', not that it matters since either fits the bill.

[ST_Catchov]

4 hours ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

 

Single player has many advantages

• No need for good internet connection
• Freedom to choose the desired mission type, duration, realism, and difficulty at any time
• (Somewhat) historically accurate unit sizes, compositions, and tactics instead of the usual ultra-competitive MP behaviour
• No risk of cheaters or bad faith players
• No pressure to engage in social interactions (if that's something you don't want to deal with)
• Options for rich role playing in your virtual career
• No restrictions on mods

 

Don't listen to Al. He's just a cynic. But a lovable cynic and a crazy likeable rogue. 

 

I agree with what you say although I do love MP also. The problem is (and to add to your list), being in Oz, and with most popular servers being in the US or Europe, I have this terrible ping see. 250+ upward to the 300's. If that's not badenov, I can only fly in the evening/night (Aussie time) when said US/Europe servers are dead. So I'm pretty well screwed.

 

I'm talking FC only here because I don't have any WWII modules. And no Aussie servers do WW1.

 

I'm not besmirching MP flyers at all, but I think they should stop and think that not all are lucky enough to participate due to unavoidable life circumstances. And this is why SP is a vital part of the GB series and should never be dissed by MP flyers as second rate or something equally disdainful. That is just ignorant stupidity.

 

 

[unreasonable]

@ST_Catchov in Bangkok at GMT +7 I am in much the same boat. Flying at 2-6 AM and then getting downed by someone whose nose is pointing 45 degrees off your tail is a bore.

 

I did, however, find flying in MP considerably safer in some respects than flying in SP career.  The majority of people on MP do not have anywhere near as good SA as the AI. You can sneak up under  a couple of people blabbing about their motors on comms, much more easily than you can surprise an AI. Additionally, if you are a good soldier, in career or campaign you often have to attack two seaters with sniper rear gunners.

 

Some of the times I played BoS MP I had a good time: but flying for half an hour (at 3 AM) only to be shot down by some teenager who has got bored of escorting your fighter-bomber is far more frustrating that anything that the AI has every inflicted.

[Varibraun]

12 hours ago, Cynic_Al said:

All of which is overridden by:

• No knowing how good you are.

 

Not true...I am an almost 60 year old Hartmann prowling the skies, feared by bots far and wide!! 

[Cynic_Al]

On 1/22/2021 at 5:55 PM, Varibraun said:

 

Not true...I am an almost 60 year old Hartmann prowling the skies, feared by bots far and wide!! 

 

The day we get bots with fear, we can all give-up multiplayer.

Edited January 24, 2021 by Cynic_Al

[ST_Catchov]

20 hours ago, Cynic_Al said:

This poll should offer a list of common reasons for frustration

 

I have to admit I don't fly campaigns/careers that much .... well, because FC doesn't have a career for starters. That will change when FC2 or 3 does. That will be interesting.

 

In my relatively little experience with bots, my greatest frustration is friendly AI shooting through you when you're target-obsessed forcing you to break quickly before serious damage or death occurs, only to see the bots make a mess of it. It's like you're wonderwoman or something in that stupid invisible plane, without the sexy apparel.

[Varibraun]

2 hours ago, ST_Catchov said:

my greatest frustration is friendly AI shooting through you when you're target-obsessed 

 

Douglas Bader strongly concurs...

 

3 hours ago, Cynic_Al said:

The day we get bots with fear, we call all give-up multiplayer.

 

[ST_Catchov]

21 hours ago, unreasonable said:

in Bangkok at GMT +7 I am in much the same boat. Flying at 2-6 AM and then getting downed by someone whose nose is pointing 45 degrees off your tail is a bore.

 

Yep. The Flugpark events I can't attend because it's mid morning daytime I think (my time). Pity. I did go out of my way a few months back and flew Cuban's Syndicate events on RoF a few times. But it was between 2-6am which just didn't work for me for various reasons.  Oh the tyranny of distance between me and them. I THOUGHT COMPUTERS WERE SUPPOSED TO MAKE THINGS EASIER!  DAMN IT ALL TO ... Oh well, never mind.

 

And then there's the ever present ping. I think I may be becoming OC about it. And Asian house geckos. But that's another story.

 

Other than that I'm quite level-headed.

[Cynic_Al]

21 hours ago, ST_Catchov said:

And then there's the ever present ping. I think I may be becoming OC about it. 

 

Many servers exist solely because their owners couldn't find the server they wanted.

[ST_Catchov]

2 hours ago, Cynic_Al said:

 

Many servers exist solely because their owners couldn't find the server they wanted.

 

It's a good point Al. Perhaps one day I'll consider it.

[Sky_Wolf]

Another post about significant AI problems:

 

 

Edited January 24, 2021 by Sky_Wolf

[rvgls49]

On 11/30/2020 at 1:11 AM, Jade_Monkey said:

As a mission maker, it drives me nuts when the AI does not want to take off or taxi correctly and it ruins a ton of work put into building the mission.

 

As a virtual pilot, i think the AI dogfighting skills have improved exponentially within the last two releases and the enemies are really pulling awesome fights. They just need to stop spraying all their ammo and take a burst approach. Im very happy with the current enemy AI.

 I am not very happy with the current AI behaviour . Of course, the team is working very hard to improve AI and I understand that it is very difficult to get satisfying results on this matter within a reasonable time.  But the main issues now are emptying their guns in one attack on a single enemy plane, lawn darting,  breaking of engagements too soon and heading en masse to their home base. If you follow them to their home base they become sitting ducks and you pluck them one for one out of the sky. The great Marianas turkey shoot means nothing compared to this. Their home bases are not defended properly by AA guns or friendlies flying CAP.

[JG27_Steini]

43 minutes ago, rvgls49 said:

 I am not very happy with the current AI behaviour . Of course, the team is working very hard to improve AI and I understand that it is very difficult to get satisfying results on this matter within a reasonable time.  But the main issues now are emptying their guns in one attack on a single enemy plane, lawn darting,  breaking of engagements too soon and heading en masse to their home base. If you follow them to their home base they become sitting ducks and you pluck them one for one out of the sky. The great Marianas turkey shoot means nothing compared to this. Their home bases are not defended properly by AA guns or friendlies flying CAP.

 

In my opinion somewhere ony the road developing the AI they made wrong descisions. Maybe they tried to do it as realistic as possible, only to find out that this is too hard. Interessesting fact is that all most all flight simulations i played (Red Baron 1995) had a better AI. The old IL2 was maybe "cheating" but it was fun to fly with them and it seamed more realistic than the one we got now. How valuable is it to have a modern AI that is bad compared to a "cheating" but noticable AI. After several bug fixes the AI is still crashing in the ground. In my opinion this game will never have a better AI. The team is great in building new 3D-Models and graphics and updates them, important core mechanic like AI or radio message system are left behind.

Edited January 24, 2021 by JG27_Steini

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

1v1 QMB >  He-111s and Ju-88s will dogfight and do aerobatics against you like a single seat fighter and nearly out-perform 110s.  These mid/heavy bombers will do everything they can to make sure that at least 1 gun is pointed at you.  Often times, it performs maneuvers that would injure (or even kill) crew members that are not adequately secured or are unable to sufficiently brace themselves.  ( Here's looking at you, 111 waist gunner. )  Also, it performs maneuvers that would probably require a "helper" crewman joining to push/pull the controls but, the pilot seemingly never gets tired.  Hammerheads? High speed split-S with a downward vertical barrel roll combination that blacks out the player but not the bomber pilot?  Endless turns that make planes much more maneuverable (IRL) unable to match and player blackout too?  No Problem.        

 

All AI including bombers >  You will never outturn them without excessive effort (in Yak) no matter how carefully you control the plane and throttle. They will always force head-on passes or sooner over-G and blackout into the ground rather than concede your advantage for a moment.   

 

On QMB missions for every 1 fighter I shoot down there's at least 2 that will derp into the ground instead of even bother to try to keep the pilot awake.