Mustang III gyro sights

[LukeFF]

@=FB=VikS, is the Mustang III planned to have the British GGS sight? In doing some research for 316 Squadron, I came across some interesting photos that appear to show the GGS sight installed in the unit's Mustang IIIs:

 

http://polishsquadronsremembered.com/316/45/andrews_field.html

 

[357th_KW]

Some US P-51B’s definitely had the K-14 sight fitted, so we should hopefully get a gyro gunsight option.

 

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/combat-reports/355-peters-20july44.jpg

[=FB=VikS]

 

[Diggun]

That dude is so happy in his work!

[LukeFF]

4 hours ago, =FB=VikS said:

 

 

 

Do we know when that photo was taken and what unit it's from?

Edited November 6, 2020 by LukeFF

[=FB=VikS]

18 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

 

Do we know when that photo was taken and what unit it's from?

 

dunno about unit, but answer about date is probably within the job that technician working on.

[Legioneod]

How common was it on the P-51B/C? I know P-47 Razorbacks had a few instances of using the GGS (not sure about K-14) but as far as I know it wasn't common like in the bubbletops. Curious if it was common on the P-51s.

[357th_KW]

I doubt anyone can answer that with certainty.  I’ve seen them mentioned as early as June 1944 (apparently the 4th FG already had some when they flew their first FRANTIC mission).  But it’s not until September and onward that you start seeing a lot more remarks about them in US combat reports.  Which also coincides with when P-51D’s entered service and then became common with US units.  So at least with US ETO P-51 units, it was likely a case where the K-14 didn’t become common in most units until the D model also was widely replacing their B models.

 

The RAF didn’t get large numbers of Mustang IVs until much later (early 45), so they may have seen much more use of the gyro sight on the Mustang III there.

[LukeFF]

5 hours ago, =FB=VikS said:

dunno about unit, but answer about date is probably within the job that technician working on.

 

Thanks! ? Any opinion on the photos I posted? It sure looks like that it is a British gyro sight, based on the markings and the distinctive throttle handle that's seen on Spitfires fitted with the GGS.

[=FB=VikS]

On 11/7/2020 at 8:11 PM, LukeFF said:

 

Thanks! ? Any opinion on the photos I posted? It sure looks like that it is a British gyro sight, based on the markings and the distinctive throttle handle that's seen on Spitfires fitted with the GGS.

 

Yup, thats definitely a British gyro installation (two additional vertical supports are visible, and british type throttle for gyro).

By the photos i have - American type K14 installation is a bit simpler (same way as on P-51D).

[Bremspropeller]

On 11/6/2020 at 5:55 PM, LukeFF said:

Do we know when that photo was taken and what unit it's from?

 

I'd hazard a guess: The first letter seems to be a W or V.

That should limit the units in question to a few.

[357th_KW]

Almost certainly the 4th FG - red nose and WD (335th FS) and VF (336th FS) squadron codes.  The only other possibility would be the 354th FS/355th FG (WR code) but they had a white nose.

Edited November 9, 2020 by KW_1979

[CaptainFlemme]

Since it's a RAF squadron, I would guess (after some googling I admit?) that it might be 309(polish)sqn, with WC as squadron code

http://www.polishsquadronsremembered.com/309/309_story.html

 

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by CaptainFlemme
Spelling error

[41Sqn_Skipper]

1 hour ago, CaptainFlemme said:

Since it's a RAF squadron, I would guess (after some googling I admit?) that it might be 309(polish)sqn, with WC as squadron code

http://www.polishsquadronsremembered.com/309/309_story.html

 

 

 

309 Squadron received Mustang III in October/November 1944, to late for Invasion Stripes on the upper wing. 

[357th_KW]

The combination of the lack of a malcolm hood, along with what appears to be a US style K-14 sight (with the prominent rounded pad on the front) leads me to believe it's a US fighter.  The two-toned appearance is likely due to exhaust.  The 336th FS/4th FG (VF) and the 354th FS/355th FG (WR) definitely still had aircraft that were painted OD in along with full invasion stripes June/July 1944. 

[LukeFF]

8 hours ago, KW_1979 said:

The combination of the lack of a malcolm hood, along with what appears to be a US style K-14 sight (with the prominent rounded pad on the front) leads me to believe it's a US fighter.  The two-toned appearance is likely due to exhaust.  The 336th FS/4th FG (VF) and the 354th FS/355th FG (WR) definitely still had aircraft that were painted OD in along with full invasion stripes June/July 1944. 

 

It's definitely an American fighter, based on the gunsight fitted and the type of uniform the ground crewman is wearing. That, and I don't know of any Ninth Air Force planes that were fitted with K-14 sights before September 1944. All the combat reports from July and August that I've seen are from Eighth Air Force units, so the plane in the photo is almost assuredly from the 4th FG.

Edited November 10, 2020 by LukeFF

[CaptainFlemme]

My bad, I mixed up the messages and pictures (late evening answers should be avoided ^^'), thanks for the correct answers :). 

[Sternjaeger]

The P-51B/C received GGS Mk.IID, some K-14s that were recovered from P-51Ds and definitely also Mk.18, which were the main "retrofit" gyro gunsights used on P-51 and P-47. I have photographic evidence and the actual sights if reference is needed.