Tiger Killing Test - rocket aim failing

[jollyjack]

Hi, set up two simple 'destroy the tigers' practice missions. http://www.mediafire.com/file/ah2o8w8grnybj7b/Tiger_Killing_test.zip/file

 

With a Halberstadt bombing (you'll need FC1) it's a piece of cake.

With a Spitfire iV (collector plane?) and rockets it's just impossible. Maybe i am too much of a beginner LoL.

 

Any ideas why rocket aiming is so difficult with a Spitfire? It's rockets easily over- or undershoot even if your aim is right.

With a Sturmovik 43 and rockets aiming is far more accurate. (not in this mission set).

Edited October 21, 2020 by jollyjack

[[DBS]Browning]

Practice will improve things, but it's also just the nature of rockets and bombs. Tanks are difficult targets.

[Zeev]

Thats just my guess, but with WWI plane you are flying slower and maybe it gives you more opportunity to aim.

[WheelwrightPL]

Do you mean Spitfire Mk9 rockets? I think they shoot up slightly to compensate for drop. Therefore you need to figure out the optimal firing distance, or else learn to calculate this drop. They are large rockets compared to Russian ones, which negatively impacts their balistics, so it may be challenging (ie. fun). And of course you should also fly coordinated (the ball in the centre), or else the rockets may go sideways. You can practice with the gyro sight by only shooting when the sight is centered.

[RedKestrel]

In addition to what everyone else has said, I find the Spitfire to be pretty twitchy, so it is a little harder to aim precisely. Combine that with all other factors and the faster approach speed and its a recipe for missing.

 

The only time I kill tanks with rockets is if I launch all 6 in a salvo at them LOL.

[jollyjack]

Thanks lads, i'll keep trying, crossed fingers. Il2 forever ...

With a Sturmovik only the bomblets work partly ... some damage and the bad guys are running off.

 

 

A Halberstadt is best at it, even blows off a tiger's hat ...:

 

Edited October 21, 2020 by jollyjack

[PatrickAWlson]

Sounds like the Po2 might be the ultimate tank killer

[Gambit21]

Real life rocket accuracy was awful by the way. The number of rockets fired by Typhoons vs the number of actual tank kills was fairly abysmal. 

[Barnacles]

5 hours ago, jollyjack said:

Hi, set up two simple 'destroy the tigers' practice missions. http://www.mediafire.com/file/ah2o8w8grnybj7b/Tiger_Killing_test.zip/file

 

With a Halberstadt bombing (you'll need FC1) it's a piece of cake.

With a Spitfire iV (collector plane?) and rockets it's just impossible. Maybe i am too much of a beginner LoL.

 

Any ideas why rocket aiming is so difficult with a Spitfire? It's rockets easily over- or undershoot even if your aim is right.

With a Sturmovik 43 and rockets aiming is far more accurate. (not in this mission set).

During testing of RP3s, Aiming was through a standard GM.II reflector gunsight. A later modification enabled the reflector to be tilted with the aid of a graduated scale, depressing the line of sight, the GM.IIL.^[6] For rockets only the Mk IIIA was the most successful – it was used on the Ventura and Hudson.

The spit rockets will hit close to the bottom of your reticule circle in game. Exactly where  relative to your sight depends on your speed, dive angle and range. If they simulate the mkIIIA sight, this may have a second position for rockets, IIRC it tilts down a few degrees.

 

@jollyjack Here's a video 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2020 by 71st_AH_Barnacles

[messsucher]

4 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

Real life rocket accuracy was awful by the way. The number of rockets fired by Typhoons vs the number of actual tank kills was fairly abysmal. 

 

Yeah, but they had demoralizing and pinning effect. That's why I think some ground attack missions should be credited as being successful if the ordnance was delivered close enough.

[Barnacles]

Those rockets went where I was aiming. The upside down T formed by the line and circle in the lower half of the reticule.

[messsucher]

1 minute ago, 71st_AH_Barnacles said:

Those rockets went where I was aiming. The upside down T formed by the line and circle in the lower half of the reticule.

 

Like laser guided rockets.

[[DBS]Browning]

14 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

Sounds like the Po2 might be the ultimate tank killer

 

It really is online.

The only way that you might miss is by dropping the bomb at too low an altitude for the fuse to arm (about <10ft with 5sec delay).

The only issue is the vulnerability to flak and the transit time. Enemy fighters are only of mild concern.

[jollyjack]

I compared the Uv2s with the Halberstadt from above, Latter is far deadlier bombing.

You must admit that rocket shooting tanks is more fun ...

Edited October 22, 2020 by jollyjack

[[DBS]Browning]

Of course, in reality, even sub machine guns would pose a threat to such low and slow bombing runs. 

[IckyATLAS]

15 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

Real life rocket accuracy was awful by the way. The number of rockets fired by Typhoons vs the number of actual tank kills was fairly abysmal. 

If only there was in the rocket head some rudimentary heat sensing like 5 bolometers in a cross pattern (5 rudimentary heat sensing pixels) with an anlog circuit to electric motors on the rocket fins just to guide a little towards the tank exhausts. Score hit rate would have been much better.

WWII time technology would have been able to do that in my opinion. Probably the manufacturing value per rocket was so low that better fire thousands of them hoping for some result. 

Edited October 22, 2020 by IckyATLAS

[[DBS]Browning]

Second war tech could do it, but it couldn't do it small, light or cheap  enough. You would need vaccume tubes to convert the tiny heat signal into a much larger control signal and a lead acid battery to power it. 

The other problem is developing a system sensitive enough at distant ranges. That's most practically done with a mechanical scanning method. 

 

 

Edit: I mean sensative enough in the terms of degrees to the target, not heat sensativity. 

 

Other guidance methods may have been more practical https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brakemine

Edited October 22, 2020 by [DBS]Browning

[Avimimus]

On 10/21/2020 at 8:17 AM, jollyjack said:

With a Spitfire iV (collector plane?) and rockets it's just impossible. Maybe i am too much of a beginner LoL.

 

Any ideas why rocket aiming is so difficult with a Spitfire? It's rockets easily over- or undershoot even if your aim is right.

With a Sturmovik 43 and rockets aiming is far more accurate. (not in this mission set).

 

Now that is an interesting observation! Was the RBS-82 much more accurate than the heavy RP-3/60lb rocket?

 

I've heard some quotes on deviation in mils but I'd be surprised if the tests were really reliable representations of field conditions.

 

FYI - hitting a tiger with an RP-3 from a Spitfire might've taken as many as 100 runs... things might improve with the Typhoon (only requiring 25 runs) ?

[jollyjack]

100 runs ...  a waste of petrol, or gaming time LoL

[[DBS]Browning]

British tests in the UK in ideal conditions with no flack and a stationary tank in an open field saw about 4.6% of RP-3 rockets hit. Results in the field appear to have been much, much less favorable.

 

 

[Avimimus]

9 hours ago, jollyjack said:

100 runs ...  a waste of petrol, or gaming time LoL

 

Well... the one where you get a hit is pretty satisfying... same goes for the Yak-1 with its pair of rockets.