Upcoming Patch 010 - Changelog

[343KKT_Kintaro]

1 minute ago, FurphyForum said:

is 'Is it too hard to use the KPH/MPH Guage'?

 

 

Beginners need some help, developers need to make some sales, and we in the Cliffs of Dover community need to be more numerous if we want this game keeps developing.

 

Let's make it a bit easier for the beginners so that new blood comes to our community, so that we can grow stronger. In their first steps of learning, please let the beginners use these tricks, whatever the cost of realism may be following your standards of what full-realism is. The real thing is that our community is still too weak, and same as there are grammar nazis, if we start being full-realism nazis... we'll end up completely alone... until we witness the death of this sim, the best WWII combat flight sim ever.

[messsucher]

This came can cater to various gamer groups, and therefore it should do it. MP servers rise and become populated by demand. I think at the moment there are not many arcade servers being populated? That was not the case with original IL-2. If there are not many arcade servers, then that could be a problem. I guess War Thunder has taken a lot of arcade players, which is something what should change. I think some RP elements should be included in game, which of course would be toggled on server side / offline campaign design.

[OBT-Lionel]

For beginners there is War Thunder
Then there is BOS.
After Cliff of Dover.
And finally DCS WW2.

I think it's up to the players to take the time to train and not the simulators to adapt to the players.

No one would ever ask Ferrari to bring out a beginner's car.

[FurphyForum]

4 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

 

Beginners need some help, developers need to make some sales, and we in the Cliffs of Dover community need to be more numerous if we want this game keeps developing.

 

Let's make it a bit easier for the beginners so that new blood comes to our community, so that we can grow stronger. In their first steps of learning, please let the beginners use these tricks, whatever the cost of realism may be following your standards of what full-realism is. The real thing is that our community is still too weak, and same as there are grammar nazis, if we start being full-realism nazis... we'll end up completely alone... until we witness the death of this sim, the best WWII combat flight sim ever.

 

Valid point, and I can accept some of that ,  However, to counter that point of view there's no better way for a beginner in a flight sim to learn, then to use the gauge's that the devs in all their time consuming effort have gone to make workable, go to waste. Players already have the ability as it is to either check OR un-check the panel control realism as it is to either make it benign or realistic. Standard feature from the beginning.... No?

 

Look, at the end of the day  I'm not here to to be obstructive or to argue with you or any of the forum member (unless they want to be a smartarse to me in comments) but just think about this, It's human nature to take the easy route and once you start the easy way its harder to change your habits later. 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

2 minutes ago, OBT-Lionel said:

For beginners there is War Thunder
Then there is BOS.
After Cliff of Dover.
And finally DCS WW2.

I think it's up to the players to take the time to train and not the simulators to adapt to the players.

No one would ever ask Ferrari to bring out a beginner's car.

 

 

Ridiculous. Do you mean that my young cousin, who never played a flight sim in his entire life, has to start playing "War Thunder" and then "IL2GB" before he installs one copy of "BLITZ" in his computer? jollyjack is missing the speed bar he found in the old "IL-2: 1946"... a feature that was fully optional... what's wrong with asking the speed bar is back, again: as an option? Is anybody here understanding what we talk about? Why don't you ask the developers to completely remove other options already existing in the game? all HUD info windows... infinite ammunition... EXTERNAL VIEWS, yeah!external views! what a pitiful sim "Cliffs of Dover" is, you can play it as an arcade dogfighter if you want... Thus, I repeat my question: is anybody here understanding what we talk about?

 

 

1 minute ago, FurphyForum said:

It's human nature to take the easy route and once you start the easy way its harder to change your habits later.

 

 

And so? one guy made one official request to the developers: not 13 HUD options but 14 options: "one more please". And I don't know what else could be said. All the negative responses that jollyjack is receiveing are based, if not on ignorance of his statement, at least on disrespect of his rights.

 

[FurphyForum]

11 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

 

Ridiculous. Do you mean that my young cousin, who never played a flight sim in his entire life, has to start playing "War Thunder" and then "IL2GB" before he installs one copy of "BLITZ" in his computer? jollyjack is missing the speed bar he found in the old "IL-2: 1946"... a feature that was fully optional... what's wrong with asking the speed bar is back, again: as an option? Is anybody here understanding what we talk about? Why don't you ask the developers to completely remove other options already existing in the game? all HUD info windows... infinite ammunition... EXTERNAL VIEWS, yeah!external views! what a pitiful sim "Cliffs of Dover" is, you can play it as an arcade dogfighter if you want... Thus, I repeat my question: is anybody here understanding what we talk about?

 

 

 

 

And so? one guy made one official request to the developers: not 13 HUD options but 14 options: "one more please". And I don't know what else could be said. All the negative responses that jollyjack is receiveing are based, if not on ignorance of his statement, at least on disrespect of his rights.

 

 

Oh please.. he posted an idea, did you not think that he wouldn't get any negative feedback from some mbrs  of the forum, and that we'd all jump straight into bed with that idea?. Hello.... it is a forum for discussion - good or bad, negative or positive. it's what makes an idea come to fruition or not. 

 

And not all the comments are negative to his (Jollyjack) idea, there are other members that would like to see it implemented. to say otherwise is being disrespectful.

Edited October 21, 2020 by FurphyForum

[343KKT_Kintaro]

7 minutes ago, FurphyForum said:

Hello.... it is a forum.  

 

 

And the Bugtracker... is not.

[FurphyForum]

4 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

 

And the Bugtracker... is not.

Definitively, it's a point of view 

[OBT-Lionel]

Kintaro, you know my opinion.

I don't want Team Fusion to make Cliff Of Dover a new Bos. I already told you, I am very disappointed with the direction taken by 1CGS which made Bos a simulator to my taste much too arcade.
I regret all my purchases and no longer use Bos. If Team Fusion made the same choice, he would lose me as a customer.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Lionel, one more line on the list of options (OPTIONS!) in the info custom window wouldn't make Cliffs of Dover is an arcade-style simulator. Nor the Great Battles is an arcade-style simulator neither, it is a very serious simulator. You may not like it, but you cannot say that the Great Battles series shares the same category with games like "Blazing Angels", "IL-2 Sturmovik: Birds of Prey", "War Thunder" or "Ace Combat 7".  Please go back to the real world. External views are optional in DCS then DCS is arcade-style simulation. Such is the level of your reasoning.

[messsucher]

Love it how arcade is such a bad word ?

[343KKT_Kintaro]

8 minutes ago, messsucher said:

Love it how arcade is such a bad word ?

 

 

You have just summarised the childish level of this debate.

[OBT-Lionel]

The story of bos is that.

 

A good level at the start and then options for simplification again and again ...

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Ok, Lionel, I can understand that. You should have said that before. TFS read this thread, I'm sure. They'll make a decision.

[Enceladus828]

4 hours ago, OBT-Lionel said:

I don't want Team Fusion to make Cliff Of Dover a new Bos. I already told you, I am very disappointed with the direction taken by 1CGS which made Bos a simulator to my taste much too arcade.

I agree. Though far from War Thunder, it's still arcade like as how many people reference their airspeed, heading, altitude, etc. from the gauges inside the plane and not from the instrument panel?

How many people look below the gunsight at non-critical times of flight?

When one compares IL-2 1946 to BoS, the former is less of an arcade IMO; save for FM/DMs.

 

I once told my flying instructor back in the spring of 2019 (who has had to give many young pilots talks about retiring from using flight simulators, but for me; after doing steep turns and an ILS approach the very first time, it was a rare case where using a sim was actually beneficial) about these 2 games and my statement (As an Example) was:

If you want an accurate depiction of D-Day or an accurate depiction of flying a Spitfire through a forest, get this game [BoS]

If you want the closest (accurate) depiction as to how a Spitfire pilot operated the aircraft and systems from start-up to shutdown, get [CloD]

 

While I love what they have done to the game these past years, I really hope that 1CGS can make their game more immersive.

 

Thank you.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Enceladus

[DD_Arthur]

Laughable......

[343KKT_Kintaro]

   

4 minutes ago, Enceladus said:

How many people look below the gunsight at non-critical times of flight?

 

 

Impossible to say, we are not "shoulderlooking" and staring at simmers' screens at their homes (nor inside their VR helmets), but all depends ont the way simmers set up their game.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Enceladus said:

When one compares IL-2 1946 to BoS, the former is less of an arcade IMO; save for FM/DMs.

 

 

Interesting opinion. I'll consider it, although I love the "Great Battles" series for what it is.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Enceladus said:

If you want an accurate depiction of D-Day or an accurate depiction of flying a Spitfire through a forest, get this game [BoS]

 

 

Battle of Normandy is not released yet. Wee didn't see the map yet.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Enceladus said:

or an accurate depiction of flying a Spitfire through a forest, get this game [BoS]

 

 

Absolutely not! Since the last patches brought to "IL2 Cliffs of Dover", we have now, in "Cliffs of Dover", the most perfect trees in a WWII combat flight sim. As an exampe, overfly at low altitude a set of trees or a forest in the Great Battles series (directly OVER the trees): the trees rotate on their axis. After that... overfly a set of trees or a forest in "Cliffs of Dover" after the last patches were implemented: the trees are stable and look fantastic. On the ground, when landed, you approach trees by taxiing... right? Do it in both simulators... and you'll notice how the trees in the Great Battles series bear no comparison with those in "Cliffs of Dover BLITZ". In the Great Battles series they are cartoon-like and wave unrealistically with the wind. It is completely the opposite in the case of the current trees in "Cliffs of Dover": they are far more realistic.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Enceladus said:

If you want the closest (accurate) depiction as to how a Spitfire pilot operated the aircraft and systems from start-up to shutdown, get [CloD]

 

 

Not only that! So many aspects of CoD are superior... but it is a quite complicated software to handle and, yes, there are a plenty of details that still need to be improved. Other thant that, the game is perfectly playable.

 

 

10 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

Laughable......

 

 

Why?

[Art-J]

On 10/21/2020 at 5:59 PM, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

Why?

 

I'd hazard a guess Arthur commented on Enceladus' assesment of Spit modelling in BoX vs CloD. And If that's the case, I would agree with him.

 

There are only three things that make CloD Spit kind-of more "realistic" than BoX one:

- you have to switch the fuel on/off manually, after that it's one-button affair to start the engine in both sims;

- you have to set the compass and gyro yourself, but the compass is not even modelled accurately, as Sokol has been pointing out on these forums for years;

- you have to turn the gunsight on/off manually - hardly a revolution in gaming.

 

Other than that both sims are pretty much equal as far as systems management "complexity" is concerned (no, I don't think ammo belt customization is a step towards realism, because in most cases ordinary pilots couldn't choose belting for themselves). I'd even say they're equally simplified compared to the likes of DCS or A2A Spitfire offerings. And that's perfectly allright as long as one's aware of both platforms limitations. Because at the same time both are superior to DCS and P3D in some other aspects and both are solid products in their own right. But let's not kid ourselves that CloD offers much more accurate representation of how to operate a warbird. It doesn't.

[OBT-Mikmak]

3 hours ago, Art-J said:

There are only three things that make CloD Spit kind-of more "realistic" than BoX one:

...

 

I would add a few more things:

- The Spit WEP is realistic in CloD (a lock at the end course of throttle) in BOS it is laughable (a fanciful manifold pressure increase whatever is the throttle position)

- A working emergency undercarriage system

- A directional gyroscope that drifts with time

- A magnetic compass that don't give the magnetic north whatever is the aircraft attitude...

- A tunable gunsight (distance and span)

- The guns recoil effects that influence the yaw (try to shoot with left gun damaged)

- The propeler blade pitch variation that you can see with your eyes (when engine is off)

- The side wind which lifts the wing upwind at take off

- The flames from the exhaust pipes changed color according to the fuel mixture

- The red tapes on machine guns which are perforated at first shoot.

- The interior lighting fluctuation according to RPM

- The dimmer which adjusts the brightness of the aiming reticle.

- The ability to set the altimeters.

Edited October 22, 2020 by OBT-Mikmak

[5th_Hellrider]

- Engine management is not about time, but about temperatures (which rise for various reasons).

- Bullet ballistics are much more realistic.

- Both vertical and horizontal convergence.

- The damage model is credible.

- Correct markings.

- Etc...

 

For bombers, the difference in detail is even more evident.

[ITAF_Airone1989]

On BoS you can put 9 AI bombers.
If you put 10, it will crash.

On CLoD you can play this on multiplayer:

 

[5th_Hellrider]

10 minutes ago, ITAF_Airone1989 said:

On BoS you can put 9 AI bombers.
If you put 10, it will crash.

On CLoD you can play this on multiplayer:

 

Impressive!

 

The CloD potential is considerable. Unfortunately this has been largely untapped online during these years. People prefer vulching to the nearest enemy bases. I remember with pleasure only the SOW.

 

Let's hope things change.

Make CloD Great Finally!

- Good missions.

- Stats.

- Attract more players.

Edited October 22, 2020 by 5th_Hellrider

[DD_Arthur]

It’s like a bunch of one-legged men in an ass-kicking competition in here. Have you thought of moving to SimHQ? You could join up with the forty other people on the planet that fly European Air War?

[ITAF_Airone1989]

On BoS you can have at max 84 players.

Even in TAW most of them collaborate in small groups, like 4-5 planes each.

I saw few sortie well organised with 15+ planes and those are great!!!

But the truth is that basically you have small independent groups not coordinated.

As Italianwing we organised a mini campaign in which both army had a commander, every group received orders from him and must reach their goal. The server was fun and the experience was great!

As it ended I cannot enjoy BoS anymore. Tactical war is pretty boring for me.

 

Then I try CLoD and now, even if with only 30 players in the server, we are having a lot of fun thanks to billion of AI's bombers that I can place in the map (more than 100 airplanes in a mission). They don't need to be human, are just an excuse (protect/attack them) to give a task to the two armies. 

And the emotions are pretty similar to the BoS campaign.

So my idea is that doesn't matter so much the game, what change the experience is the organisation of the event.

CLoD and Bos have both good and bad things, but for sure it's easier to organise this kind of events on CLoD thanks to a better AI management.

Edited October 23, 2020 by ITAF_Airone1989

[OBT-Lionel]

Airone,

 

The current campaign that you currently offer us on Wednesday is very good.  ??

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Ok DD_Arthur, I'd say you win... but only because the thread evolved into a few off topic exchanges. Now, let's wait for the advent of patch 5.011.

[OBT-Mikmak]

10 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

It’s like a bunch of one-legged men in an ass-kicking competition in here. Have you thought of moving to SimHQ? You could join up with the forty other people on the planet that fly European Air War?

 

 Thanks for your precious contribution ?

 

PS. Arthur, would you like to be the rump of this "ass-kicking" competition ?

[DD_Arthur]

3 hours ago, OBT-Mikmak said:

PS. Arthur, would you like to be the rump of this "ass-kicking" competition ?

 

This is thread about about a patch change log, no?  Well done to TFS.  A pity they've had to spend their time on constant patches but it is what it is.

Why have you lot decided to make it a hilarious comparison between one game and another?  It's a pity that few of you actually know what you're talking about either.   

 

Cliffs needs all the help it can get.  It's player numbers are pitiful.  People have voted with their feet and Desert Wings has evidently failed to attract a new audience or much interest from the multitude of people who abandoned the game in years past.   

 

I understand english is not your first language and that generations of Germans and Englishmen have learnt to say "take me to your white flag factory" in french but why do you think trying to belittle other, more successful games is going to help? 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by DD_Arthur

[Thundercracker]

Steady on now chaps. 

[Peachy9]

Entertaining. I think someone here isn't a fan of CLOD.....a lot of anger. Talking about constant patches, I think its a feature of BOS as well! To me it means the developers of the series including TFS care about the games - surely not a sign of weakness. PS not everyone plays offline but i can see why they do in BOS because that is where the immersion is - it isnt offline as it is in CLOD. 

[Dagwoodyt]

On 10/22/2020 at 3:17 PM, OBT-Mikmak said:

 

I would add a few more things:

- The Spit WEP is realistic in CloD (a lock at the end course of throttle) in BOS it is laughable (a fanciful manifold pressure increase whatever is the throttle position)

- A working emergency undercarriage system

- A directional gyroscope that drifts with time

- A magnetic compass that don't give the magnetic north whatever is the aircraft attitude...

- A tunable gunsight (distance and span)

- The guns recoil effects that influence the yaw (try to shoot with left gun damaged)

- The propeler blade pitch variation that you can see with your eyes (when engine is off)

- The side wind which lifts the wing upwind at take off

- The flames from the exhaust pipes changed color according to the fuel mixture

- The red tapes on machine guns which are perforated at first shoot.

- The interior lighting fluctuation according to RPM

- The dimmer which adjusts the brightness of the aiming reticle.

- The ability to set the altimeters.

I've got buttons assigned to adjust Spitfire gun sight for distance and span in both Blitz and BoX. Am I misreading your post?

Edited October 28, 2020 by Dagwoodyt

[343KKT_Kintaro]

7 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

I've got buttons assigned to adjust Spitfire gun sight for distance and span in both Blitz and BoX. Am I misreading your post?

 

 

Two items in Mikmak's list are features shared with the Great Battles series:

 

- "A tunable gunsight (distance and span)"

 

- "The propeler blade pitch variation that you can see with your eyes (when engine is off)"

 

All other items in Mikmak's list are exclusive features in the Dover series.

[OBT-Mikmak]

Yes, indeed there is a tunable gunsight (distance and span).

 

But no, you cannot see the propeler blade pitch variation like this :

(Spit Vb)

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by OBT-Mikmak

[343KKT_Kintaro]

I already checked that in the Great Battles series: the engine is turned off.. .you use your propeller pitch device... and you see the blades slowly rotating on their axis...

 

I did a test with at least one plane. Can't remember what type was it... but I'll double check, just in case.

[Dagwoodyt]

15 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

I already checked that in the Great Battles series: the engine is turned off.. .you use your propeller pitch device... and you see the blades slowly rotating on their axis...

 

I did a test with at least one plane. Can't remember what type was it... but I'll double check, just in case.

While at it please check reference to altimeter correction. I seem to have it programmed in VoiceAttack for BoX for some reason. One thing BoX does have is ability to start and stop a Tacview recording with a single button press or voice command while in-game.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

6 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

While at it please check reference to altimeter correction

 

 

This is sometthing you can check yourself: the Great Battles series presents no clickable dashboards, thus if the feature you mentioned is not in the list of control settings, then it's not in the game. Just check.

[Dagwoodyt]

On 10/22/2020 at 3:17 PM, OBT-Mikmak said:

 

I would add a few more things:

- The Spit WEP is realistic in CloD (a lock at the end course of throttle) in BOS it is laughable (a fanciful manifold pressure increase whatever is the throttle position)

- A working emergency undercarriage system

- A directional gyroscope that drifts with time

- A magnetic compass that don't give the magnetic north whatever is the aircraft attitude...

- A tunable gunsight (distance and span)

- The guns recoil effects that influence the yaw (try to shoot with left gun damaged)

- The propeler blade pitch variation that you can see with your eyes (when engine is off)

- The side wind which lifts the wing upwind at take off

- The flames from the exhaust pipes changed color according to the fuel mixture

- The red tapes on machine guns which are perforated at first shoot.

- The interior lighting fluctuation according to RPM

- The dimmer which adjusts the brightness of the aiming reticle.

- The ability to set the altimeters.

 

2 hours ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

 

This is sometthing you can check yourself: the Great Battles series presents no clickable dashboards, thus if the feature you mentioned is not in the list of control settings, then it's not in the game. Just check.

I checked before posting. Also note that the I-16 has manual mixture control with corresponding change in exhaust color. I think it does a disservice to both sims when nit picky, casually researched comparisons are proffered. Clickable cockpits? Not going there :-)

[343KKT_Kintaro]

1 hour ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Also note that the I-16 has manual mixture control with corresponding change in exhaust color.

 

 

I just tested that Russky and, indeed, the colour changes while modifying the mixture... but I don't think it's realistic. Theoretically the flame should be blue at starting up the engine with 100% mixture at ground level (my Polikarpov was "parked" in the QMB). To obtain a blue flame I was forced to dicrease the mixture down to 52%.

 

I'm not an expert at all, I may have done something wrong.

 

 

1 hour ago, Dagwoodyt said:

I think it does a disservice to both sims when nit picky, casually researched comparisons are proffered.

 

 

Agreed.

 

To Mikmak: I double checked those "moving blades" with engines turned off on board of a Macchi, a Spitfire, a P-51, three 109s (E-7, F-2, F-4) and on Fw 190 (A-5). I saw the propeller blades were moving but only in the German planes (the three 109s and the Fw 190 A-5). That was awfully boring, I stopped after my test with the Fw 190 A-5.

 

 

 

[jollyjack]

LoL .. 3 years later and there still is no (selectable) speedbar as i understand.

 

I like flightsims and one thing i hate especially is being forced to some 'half of the screen filling' cockpit view just to read airspeed and height.

IMO CloD and all the others are just games: sitting behind a flat-screen will never be a real life thing.

 

That's one of the things i personally don't like in CloD: when you take off in your (virtual game) plane in arcade view, while looking at the nice scenery around an airfield, is when speed is right for a lift-off.  ..

 

In DCS you can at least press Control L + Y and you get some small speed information at the lower right corner.

 

The HUD in BoS etc IMO is perfect. Press H and it's gone if you don't like it.

Edited December 14, 2023 by jollyjack