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Gentlemen I think it Time the Devs Brought in the Ta 152

Should the Ta 152 H-1 be added  

105 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the Ta 152 H-1 be added into the game

    • Hell Yes!
      44
    • Maybe...
      25
    • Hell No!
      36


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I am sick and tired of these damn Tempest, truly, I am.

We can't touch them below 4km. They are faster and turn better.

Apart from the standard BnZ, not much can be done against them. 

Thus, I think it's time the Devs brought in what was Our Lord and Savior Kurt Tank's greatest creation,

 

Ladies and Gentlemen, may I introduce to you.

 

The Ta 152 H-1

 

Focke_Wulf_Ta152.jpg

 

And for all of your wondering, It was produce and flown. Multiple times.

 

In fact, here is an excerpt from the all trusty website known of Wikipedia.

 

"As the direction of take-off was in line with the railway tracks leading straight to Ludwigslust, we were almost immediately in contact with the enemy fighters, which turned out to be Tempests. Flying in No 3 position I witnessed Oberfeldwebel Sattler ahead of me dive into the ground seconds before we reached them. It was hardly possible for his crash to have been the result of enemy action, as the two Tempest pilots had clearly only just registered our presence. So now it was two against two as the ground-level dogfight began. We knew the Tempest to be a very fast fighter, used by the British to chase and shoot down our V-1s. But here, in a fight, which was never to climb above 50 metres, speed would not play a big part. The machines' ability to turn would be all important. Both pilots realised from the start that it would be a fight to the finish and used every flying trick and tactical ploy possible to try to gain the upper hand. At this altitude, neither could afford to make the slightest mistake. And for the first time since flying the Ta 152 I began full to appreciate exactly what this aircraft could do.

 

Pulling ever tighter turns I got closer and closer to the Tempest, never once feeling I was even approached the limit of the Ta's capabilities. And in order to keep out of my sights, the Tempest pilot was being forced to take increasingly dangerous evasive action. When he flicked over onto the opposite wing I knew his last attempt to turn inside me had failed. The first burst of fire from my Ta 152 caught the Tempest in the tail and rear fuselage. The enemy aircraft shuddered noticeably and, probably as an instinctive reaction, the Tempest pilot immediately yoked into a starboard turn, giving me an even greater advantage.

 

Now there was no escape for the Tempest. I pressed my gun buttons a second time, but after a few rounds my weapons fell silent, and despite all my efforts to clear them, refused to fire another shot. I can no longer remember just who and what I didn't curse. But fortunately the Tempest pilot didn't realise my predicament as he'd already taken hits. Instead, he continued desperately to twist and turn and I positioned myself so that I was always just within his field of vision. Eventually – inevitably – he stalled. The Tempest's left wing dropped and he crashed into the woods immediately below us.

 

It so happened that the site of Oberfeldwebel Sattler's crash, and that of the Tempest pilot, who proved to be New Zealander Warrant Officer Owen J. Mitchell, were only about one kilometre apart. They were buried side-by-side in Neustadt-Glewe cemetery the next day with full military honours.[11]"

 

Here is the Wikipedia page - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Ta_152

 

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Seriously?

 

 

 

With that said I would like to have Ta152 but not because Luftwaffe pilots are slaughtered online. They arent. On most servers there are enough of 262s and most pilots know how to use them to never be toucjed. So pls dont whine.

On top of that we have horders of "dedicated" Luftwaffe flyers who only fly with german planes. Thast funny if you ask me.

 

262.jpg

Edited by =VARP=Tvrdi
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Why not just fly the Tempest?  I mean you have flown the German birds all this time just to have the upper hand online, so the solution would seem obvious now that it's late war and the balance of power has shifted to the Allies.

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The 152 is a neat plane, but I'd much rather see aircraft that saw more than half a dozen dogfights at the end of '45. There are many more relevant and storied aircraft that I feel would be a better fit for the sim

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1 hour ago, =VARP=Tvrdi said:

Seriously?

 

 

 

With that said I would like to have Ta152 but not because Luftwaffe pilots are slaughtered online. They arent. On most servers there are enough of 262s and most pilots know how to use them to never be toucjed. So pls dont whine.

On top of that we have horders of "dedicated" Luftwaffe flyers who only fly with german planes. Thast funny if you ask me.

 

262.jpg

I’m with you on this - balance is a crap reason to introduce this plane. 
BUT I really really really wish to fly this plane modelled to BoX level of accuracy!
 

1 hour ago, =621=Samikatz said:

The 152 is a neat plane, but I'd much rather see aircraft that saw more than half a dozen dogfights at the end of '45. There are many more relevant and storied aircraft that I feel would be a better fit for the sim

I fully understand and it is a good argument - there is no logical reason for my wish. It is no important plane for WWII. But it so beautifully combines Fw down-to-business attitude with glider like elegance that I always adored this airplane. 
 

Maybe as German premium for a future battle of Berlin module? ^^
 

propably not but the wish remains. 

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11 minutes ago, Eisenfaustus said:

 .... Maybe as German premium for a future battle of Berlin module? ...

 

That would be quite a short battle compared to Stalingrad ..

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You guys are right.

 

Introducing this plane purely based as a means of "balancing" the game is a bad idea and I shouldn't have let my frustration get the best of me there.

 

Now granted, I would like to see the plane in the game Nonetheless. I think it's a great plane, with a lot of potential and would be a lot of fun to fly.

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They should only introduce planes that are relevant to the map and time frame.

If it doesn't fit those parameters then don't waste time on it... if it fits, then it should be considered.

It's not rocket science...

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Regarding the 152H, I recall (strictly memory here, my life's belongings are in storage) a pilot saying the H had a ridiculously slow initial roll response, but laughed and quickly added that it wasn't as bad as the P-38, and yet once in a turn in front of a Mustang could arrive on the Mustang's tail in three and a half turns.  Of note here is that initial roll response isn't modeled so this likely wouldn't be an issue in game.  The H's low speed acceleration was supposed to be dramatic as well.  In reality there were huge issues with the type being rushed into production with next to no development but they all paled in comparison to a sky full of allied aircraft so it would be interesting how or even if some of the issues could be modeled.

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From what I read once I remember that the  ta152h1 actually wouldn‘t be a super plane in a box context as in comparison with a fw190d9 only turnrate and firepower were better below 6000m, where almost all combat happens. Rate of roll, speed, acceleration, climbing and diving would be worse. 
 

So while it would still be a historically irrelevant plane modelled it wouldn’t be a magic axis win button. 
 

And for future expansions relevant German fighters become scarce. Bf109g10 and fw190a9 are the last models that saw relevant action in late war that aren’t modelled yet I can think of. he162 being similar exotic but gameplay wise less thrilling to me.
me163 would be interesting to be modelled but without allied heavies there is nothing you could do with this interceptor. 

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To have the Ta-152 in the game is very unlikely. Regardless of whether it 'deserves' to be in the game, there's probably no way to get an accurate damage and flight model for it.

 

That said, I absolutely would want to fly it. I mean... more plane selection is always better, isn't it?

 

I don't really care if the OP made this about multiplayer balance. Having the Ta-152 in the game would undeniably be a good thing for anyone who wants to fly as many WWII planes as humanly possible.

 

There should also be the Do-335. Imagine the fun of using the ejection seat. And there should be the Me-163, just for glider enthusiasts if nothing else. The high probability of exploding randomly during rough landings, or having caustic vapors leak into the cockpit to literally dissolve the pilot--that doesn't need to be modelled in the game. I'd even vote for the He-162 to be in the game. Oh, and the He-219.

 

Whether all of these planes saw much, or any, combat, is really not relevant. They were developed sufficiently to be operational by the end of the war, even if only operational in single-digit numbers in some cases. None of the planes mentioned are as speculative in nature as, say, the Ta-183.

 

For the record, I'd also want any other nation's planes that barely entered WWII in time to be included in the game. A good example would be the F8F Bearcat. If we're going to make wishlists of things that'll never happen, might as well go all-out.

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4 minutes ago, oc2209 said:

Whether all of these planes saw much, or any, combat, is really not relevant.

 

It is relevant while they are still other far more commonly produced planes that have yet to be built. Once you get beyond that point, then yeah, then I think you can start talking about super rare types like the Ta 152 and the Do 335.

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Would make sense as a collector plane once (if) they release a 44/45 module for East Front. JG 301 was flying the Ta 152 H0 and H1 from Alteno (south of Berlin), Stendal (near Magdeburg) and Neustadt-Gleve (near Parchim). Some 20 odd planes saw action both against VVS and the Allies between 2/45 and 4/45. 

 

Production H machines. First machine lost 2/45 near Alteno.

image.png.cb96a0486af1106c67354b29448f8814.png

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3 hours ago, LukeFF said:

and the Do 335.

 

AFAIK was never issued to field units in contrast to He 162 which was issued to JG1, which at least saw some action in Northern Germany in 4/45. However we are moving into Il2-1946 or SWOTL terrain here.

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Hell no.

I’d rather see some German float planes (or a single German float plane) first.

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9 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

It is relevant while they are still other far more commonly produced planes that have yet to be built. Once you get beyond that point, then yeah, then I think you can start talking about super rare types like the Ta 152 and the Do 335.

 

Of course; planes like the Yak-3 have to be put in the sim first.

 

But the intriguing thing about end-of-war German designs is that while they were objectively stupid from a practical perspective, they are perfect for flight sims and video games. They're weird looking, weird flying, and typically had powerful armament. By my standards at least, they're a lot more fun than the sensible, practical designs that most other nations were fielding at the same time.

 

Another reason German designs get more attention is that unlike weird and impractical Allied prototypes, German oddities actually saw service or were put into limited production. The Allies didn't have the dire need to put oddball designs into production; and arguably, the Allies also had more common sense than the Germans. Thus 99% of odd Allied designs died in prototype stages, so 'what-iffing' with them is less enjoyable for the armchair aviation historian.

 

The only reason even more of the late war German designs weren't produced and flown wasn't for lack of trying; it was mainly because German industry was in disarray and fuel supply was too far gone to train pilots. Much like the way the Japanese would have produced probably dozens of A7M Reppus (the Zero's successor) had the factory not been destroyed. I'd love to fly an A7M in a sim (assuming there was enough technical data to support its inclusion, which of course will never be the case).

 

The main reason end-of-war designs are so appealing (to me, at least) is that they represent the absolute pinnacle of wartime piston design. Trying to include rare plane types from early or mid war is subjectively boring by comparison, because the performance of these designs will always be obsolete within a year or two. Only at the very end of the war (or a little beyond) do you get dream match ups involving aviation design titans, like who would win between an A7M and a Bearcat, or a Do-335 and a Tempest II.

 

Again, I know I'm in pipe-dream territory here. I'm just saying why I think planes like the Ta-152 are appealing. It was Tank's final evolution of the design, and not the stopgap that the Fw-190D proved to be. The 190D might be a better all-around plane... but I'm still curious to see Tank's 'baby' as he intended it to be.

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I think those experimental designs are just a mess. There is no real war, so there is no real need for them. There is very little information of them, so they are hard to model other than looks. So they are a just lot of guess work, meaning fantasy planes. If I liked fantasy planes I would play space sims.

 

This said, for me personally it is all the same what is added to the game since I am happy with the few planes I have. Coming from original IL-2 with mods I really don't see that much of a value to have 10 000 different planes in games.

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We all have our darlings. I want floatplanes, I want the He-219, and if it was offered, I'd buy the TA-152 in a heartbeat - not because of balance or even a desire to fly something powerful, but because they are interesting, they are beautiful, and they flew. Same goes for most allied designs, especially the ones that get comparatively little love, like the Italian fighters, French bombers, sea and recon planes. 

I don't think there's any need to be overtly dismissive or critical of OP's suggestion, or to make assumptions about their intentions or coalition preference. We're all aviation nuts.
I'd pay as much money and be just as interested in a Swordfish, I-153 or Short Sunderland as I would in a Do335, Horten Ho 229, or the Ta-152.

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Ta152 only would make sence if we get an Berlin map where Berlin is located either south or north of the map (so they don't have to make the city similar to the current Normandy map).

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2 hours ago, Luftschiff said:

I don't think there's any need to be overtly dismissive or critical of OP's suggestion, or to make assumptions about their intentions or coalition preference. We're all aviation nuts.
I'd pay as much money and be just as interested in a Swordfish, I-153 or Short Sunderland as I would in a Do335, Horten Ho 229, or the Ta-152.

 

Yeah, I don't get the hostility either. I guess because the OP comes off as a Luftwaffe fanboy.

 

It's not like there's any real 'danger' of the devs putting most of these planes in the game, anyway. This is all speculative and wishful thinking.

 

As for the Horten, I omitted mentioning that because it never really flew in combat. Arguably the Do-335 didn't either, but it was at least flown in the vicinity of enemy planes. Also, it's an important distinction that the Allies were able to test the Do-335, while no one ever flew a Ho 229 after the war. Even the Germans only flew it once before it crashed, if memory serves.

 

I would draw a hard line on only including planes that either saw combat (even if only a single sortie), or were at a stage of development so far along that, had the enemy not been a laughable shadow of its former self (in the case of Germany and Japan in their last few months), the planes certainly could and would have been used in combat. So that would encompass designs like the Bearcat as well. I'd really like to fly that.

 

Anywho, to wrap up my above point: the Do-335 was ready for combat, while the Ho-229 was not.

On 10/11/2020 at 9:02 AM, Eisenfaustus said:

From what I read once I remember that the  ta152h1 actually wouldn‘t be a super plane in a box context as in comparison with a fw190d9 only turnrate and firepower were better below 6000m, where almost all combat happens. Rate of roll, speed, acceleration, climbing and diving would be worse.

 

Well, presumably there'd be an option to use the shorter wing variant of the 152 at low altitudes, which would make the 152 much more similar (and most likely slightly improved) to the 190D's low-mid altitude performance. I forget how many variants were planned, but knowing the Germans, it was at least 3-5 right out the gate. If the war had gone on another year, there'd probably be 10 variants.

Edited by oc2209

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Ok. can I play this game too?  I'll see your TA 152, and raise you a YP 80...

 

Ovy4VM.jpg

 

YP 80s flying near Mt. Vesuvius, 1945.

 

Note the first number in their tail codes, "4", that means they were built and accepted by the Army Air Forces in 1944.

Edited by BlitzPig_EL

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39 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Ok. can I play this game too?  I'll see your TA 152, and raise you a YP 80...

 

Ovy4VM.jpg

 

YP 80s flying near Mt. Vesuvius, 1945.

 

Note the first number in their tail codes, "4", that means they were built and accepted by the Army Air Forces in 1944.

 

I'd be fine with the YP-80, so long as it came after the Meteor. 

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Arguing that we need this aircraft because the German aircraft are vulnerable to the Tempest probably wasn’t the best way to go.  Lots of us spent many hours flying Yaks and LaGGs against 109F4s flown by people who wouldn’t get in a LaGG at gunpoint.  We need a crapload of other aircraft before we get more unicorns.

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9 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

I'd be fine with the YP-80, so long as it came after the Meteor. 

I agree Luke.  The Meteor should be in first.

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On 10/11/2020 at 3:39 PM, Jamisco said:

You guys are right.

 

Introducing this plane purely based as a means of "balancing" the game is a bad idea and I shouldn't have let my frustration get the best of me there.

 

Now granted, I would like to see the plane in the game Nonetheless. I think it's a great plane, with a lot of potential and would be a lot of fun to fly.

So now it is important to balance the game? totally declined by LW pilots in this game since the beginning. 

It has to be historical they said. 

Just a few was operational by the end of the war, and it is not realistic. BTW if it is such a wonderweapon , fly it yourself and see. 

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2 hours ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

So now it is important to balance the game? totally declined by LW pilots in this game since the beginning. 

It has to be historical they said. 

Just a few was operational by the end of the war, and it is not realistic. BTW if it is such a wonderweapon , fly it yourself and see. 

Kofte.....problem is the planes arent used on servers like in RL and numbers are more or less equal on server....not the historical way anyway....

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4 hours ago, =VARP=Tvrdi said:

Kofte.....problem is the planes arent used on servers like in RL and numbers are more or less equal on server....not the historical way anyway....

I stopped flying online half a year ago. I do not know why I bother. 
But LW side had the upper hand since the start. Flying Red attackers was a looong uphill. Yet all you heard was complaint from blue side about Yak ufo and gunners on PE 2. And now they say their planes are rubbish. I honestly do not know why I bother, but I sure remember why I stopped flying

Edited by 216th_LuseKofte
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2 hours ago, Jamisco said:

What's LW?

 

My initials. 😄 

 

(It means Luftwaffe in this context).

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My 2 cents: It is a high altitude aircraft that was barely operational. One could probably make a stronger argument for the Do-335 or He-162...

 

It would be neat - but I'd like to see a few missing mid-war aircraft first (and a He-162 ;) ).

 

P.S. I'll admit your combat report makes it more interesting - I might fire up Il-2 1946!

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10 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

My 2 cents: It is a high altitude aircraft that was barely operational. One could probably make a stronger argument for the Do-335 or He-162...

 

Eh, not really IMO. The Do 335 was never operational, and the He 162 was operational for about the last 2-3 weeks of the war. While the Ta 152 was hardly a high-volume production plane, it saw significant more action that the other two planes discussed here.

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1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

 

Eh, not really IMO. The Do 335 was never operational, and the He 162 was operational for about the last 2-3 weeks of the war. While the Ta 152 was hardly a high-volume production plane, it saw significant more action that the other two planes discussed here.

 

You are right about the Do-335...! I really shouldn't work entirely from memory when I make comments.

 

That said, the He-162 did see higher production numbers and would have become quite significant if fuel supplies had been available... a delay in the destruction of the synthetic oil plants by a couple of months... it almost outshone the Ta-152.

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On 10/11/2020 at 6:57 PM, Jamisco said:

I am sick and tired of these damn Tempest, truly, I am.

We can't touch them below 4km. They are faster and turn better.

Apart from the standard BnZ, not much can be done against them. 

Thus, I think it's time the Devs brought in what was Our Lord and Savior Kurt Tank's greatest creation,

 

Ladies and Gentlemen, may I introduce to you.

 

The Ta 152 H-1

 

Focke_Wulf_Ta152.jpg

 

And for all of your wondering, It was produce and flown. Multiple times.

 

In fact, here is an excerpt from the all trusty website known of Wikipedia.

 

"As the direction of take-off was in line with the railway tracks leading straight to Ludwigslust, we were almost immediately in contact with the enemy fighters, which turned out to be Tempests. Flying in No 3 position I witnessed Oberfeldwebel Sattler ahead of me dive into the ground seconds before we reached them. It was hardly possible for his crash to have been the result of enemy action, as the two Tempest pilots had clearly only just registered our presence. So now it was two against two as the ground-level dogfight began. We knew the Tempest to be a very fast fighter, used by the British to chase and shoot down our V-1s. But here, in a fight, which was never to climb above 50 metres, speed would not play a big part. The machines' ability to turn would be all important. Both pilots realised from the start that it would be a fight to the finish and used every flying trick and tactical ploy possible to try to gain the upper hand. At this altitude, neither could afford to make the slightest mistake. And for the first time since flying the Ta 152 I began full to appreciate exactly what this aircraft could do.

 

Pulling ever tighter turns I got closer and closer to the Tempest, never once feeling I was even approached the limit of the Ta's capabilities. And in order to keep out of my sights, the Tempest pilot was being forced to take increasingly dangerous evasive action. When he flicked over onto the opposite wing I knew his last attempt to turn inside me had failed. The first burst of fire from my Ta 152 caught the Tempest in the tail and rear fuselage. The enemy aircraft shuddered noticeably and, probably as an instinctive reaction, the Tempest pilot immediately yoked into a starboard turn, giving me an even greater advantage.

 

Now there was no escape for the Tempest. I pressed my gun buttons a second time, but after a few rounds my weapons fell silent, and despite all my efforts to clear them, refused to fire another shot. I can no longer remember just who and what I didn't curse. But fortunately the Tempest pilot didn't realise my predicament as he'd already taken hits. Instead, he continued desperately to twist and turn and I positioned myself so that I was always just within his field of vision. Eventually – inevitably – he stalled. The Tempest's left wing dropped and he crashed into the woods immediately below us.

 

It so happened that the site of Oberfeldwebel Sattler's crash, and that of the Tempest pilot, who proved to be New Zealander Warrant Officer Owen J. Mitchell, were only about one kilometre apart. They were buried side-by-side in Neustadt-Glewe cemetery the next day with full military honours.[11]"

 

Here is the Wikipedia page - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Ta_152

 

 

I'm also tired of German boast.   

 

if my memory is correct, Owen J. Mitchell was only 18 years old boy with merely 500 hrs flight time, i.e. an newbie 

 

Please refer to this article, Ta152 is just so so.

http://clocloz.altervista.org/history/wwii/aviation/ludwigslust/Ludwigslust_aerial_combat_14-4-1945.html

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It is an interesting and nice plane. 

For WWII sim gameplay purpose there are probably 50+ more important planes to do before Ta-152, though. 

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As a FW enthusiast I would absolutely love to see this come to the game.

 

However I don't think it will be nearly what the OP thinks. Yeah its fast but that's just because of the secondary boost system it employed in high altitudes. Kurt Tank wanted the 152 to be the successor to the Dora series (which was only supposed to be a stop gap between the Antons and the 152) but it didn't get what he wanted. He wanted the DB603 engine but the H0 and H1s got an updated Jumo213E compared to the D9's Jumo213A. So it really just has a larger profile than the D9 a updated Jumo engine and better armaments. The C model would've had the DB603 Tank wanted but I don't believe they were really produced so I don't think as a modification or as a separate plane they should be introduced as they would be nearly pure speculation.  

 

I think better options for inclusion would be the further evolutions of the Dora series such as the D11, 12, 13 which would be easier to implement as they were all essentially modifications of each other. They had the upgraded Jumo213F compared to the D9 and just different armament options from each other.(D11- 2x MG151/20 wing root, 2x MK108/30 outer wing,  D12- 2x MG151/20 wing root, 1x MK108/30 motor cannon,  D13- 2x MG151/20 wing root, 1x MG151/20 motor cannon) But again these were produced in such small numbers that I find their implementation unlikely. (However I can hope and find it more likely than the 152. These would be a great addition as a collector to compliment the D9 without introducing "Wonder weapons")

 

I think the best option for us 190 jockeys is to hope for the inclusion of the A9. It was produced in large numbers (relatively speaking) and is a true improvement over the past Antons with the further developed BMW801S instead of the 801D2. Maybe add the A10 as well which I believe was a modification of the A9 with longer wings for improved performance at altitude and had more room in the wings for more MK108s. (Don't quote me on that the A10 is hard to find data for)

 

For now I will wait for the A6 to launch but hope that maybe someday they include some of these other variants however I don't think I will hold my breath.

Edited by 77IAP_Section_Eight

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12 hours ago, No.41_Glen said:

 

I'm also tired of German boast.   

 

if my memory is correct, Owen J. Mitchell was only 18 years old boy with merely 500 hrs flight time, i.e. an newbie 

 

 

While I agree that it's unwise to infer too much about the 152's capabilities based on one combat account, I also wouldn't call 500 hours a raw recruit. German rookies at this same time had about 200 hours. Now that's worthless. I think British training would have been adequate enough to teach the basics of sustained turning.

 

The truth is, most late-war designs were broadly competitive with each other; and even older designs could be effective in the hands of experienced pilots. Where everything falls apart, is the expectation that any one design would have overcome the fundamental deficiencies of the Luftwaffe. No plane, including the Me-262 put into production 6 months earlier than it was--no plane was going to make a dent in the overwhelming Allied numbers and coordination.

 

This is related to a point I made in another discussion. People commonly refer to the Mustang as a 'war winning' plane. No, it wasn't. It was an overkill plane, that marginally expedited the already terminal decline of a dying military (Germany's). The Allied bombing campaign could have broken the Luftwaffe's back with only P-47s as escorts, simply because by late '43 and the beginning of '44, Allied tactics and organization had been perfected, and paired with massive numbers of planes and well-trained pilots. The exact opposite was true for the Luftwaffe. They had declined so completely, their average formation couldn't even maintain the finger-four. They had to fly line abreast because that's all the rookies could handle. They were a joke. The resistance they put up was token compared to the volume of catastrophic damage being dealt by the Allies.

 

The P-51 was no more instrumental in defeating Germany (or even dramatically shortening the war--maybe by a few months at most), than an earlier introduction of the Me-262--or any other wonder-weapon--would have been instrumental in defeating the Allied bombing campaign.

 

No one plane, on either side, was going to dramatically change the course of the war after 1943. Logistics is all that matters in war; and the Allies laid the foundation for winning the war of logistics by 1942. The rest of the time was simply waiting for all the pieces to fall into place. Obviously heroism and skill were still needed on the Allies' part--I'm not selling them short. But skill doesn't mean sh** if there aren't logistics to back it up.

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I have a small question about the Ta 152.

Does anybody know what the "Ta" stands for?

I've been looking all over the net but can't find the answer.

 

Have a nice day.

 

:salute:

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18 minutes ago, FlyingShark said:

I have a small question about the Ta 152.

Does anybody know what the "Ta" stands for?

I've been looking all over the net but can't find the answer.

 

Have a nice day.

 

:salute:

 

Ta stands for Kurt Tank, the lead engineer of the whole Focke Wulf series.

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