Game version 4.501 discussion: New visibility, "Wind of Fury", 4K for P-39 and Bf-109-G6, Tanks final features

[=ILS=_ppph]

On 9/21/2020 at 4:08 PM, -DED-Rapidus said:

Thank you, we are already researching the problem.

I'll ask you to give me both tracks.

Since the zoom in happens in VR, I am not sure how to crop the picture for you. I can attach a link on the forum talking about the issues we are having. Please have a look at this

 

[=RS=Stix_09]

2 hours ago, SJ_Butcher said:

 

Why your game looks like that? Mine look with washed colors on a perfectly calibrated monitor (IPs) could you please share your settings? startup.cfg, are you using reshade?

 

No reshade, nothing special about my start up , time of day and map can impact colors, maybe hdr 

 

Low light conditions make spotting harder, as it should be.

Edited September 23, 2020 by =RS=Stix_09

[=RS=Stix_09]

Spoiler

4 hours ago, 69th_Panp said:

Get away from the 4 K tv and get a 4 K monitor, Most TVs process the image and use downscaling to play games at a decent frame rate.

You can see this for yourself when looking at the active signal resolution in display settings in windows.

you will have the desktop resolution, lets say 3840 x 2160 

and you will have the active signal resolution 2560 x 1440 or maybe even lower

when they differ, you tv is having to process the image, which will at most times lower the picture quality

 

to play at a decent frame rate at 3840X 2160 your Tv will most likely be at a signal resolution far lower 

The TV i had was a 4 K sony 55" Class Q90T Series QLED 4K UHD Smart 

Fantastic TV to watch TV on, but would downscale when in game mode at 120htz

in game the image would have very little depth of field which made spotting difficult

I ended up having to play at 1920x 1080 to be able to see on a 55 inch screen! 

 

I replaced it with a asus rog PG43UQ, even the smallest dot are visible now

 

this is typical of the type of problems some ppl have with spotting, and nothing to do with the game as a cause...

Edited September 23, 2020 by =RS=Stix_09

[Noisemaker]

9 hours ago, =RS=Stix_09 said:

Did u turn off alt spotting ?

 

9 hours ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

Checked the Enhanced visibility is off?

Playing exclusively single player.  I was under the impression that's a multiplayer feature.  Anyhow, when I get back to my rig next week, I'll fiddle with the graphics setting some more to see if I can't turn this contrast down.

 

[=RS=Stix_09]

35 minutes ago, Noisemaker said:

 

Playing exclusively single player.  I was under the impression that's a multiplayer feature.  Anyhow, when I get back to my rig next week, I'll fiddle with the graphics setting some more to see if I can't turn this contrast down.

 

No its not, is both

?

[Noisemaker]

1 hour ago, =RS=Stix_09 said:

No its not, is both

?

Good to know.  Where is it set?  I don't see anything in the Graphics settings.

[216th_Jordan]

8 hours ago, SJ_Butcher said:

 

Why your game looks like that? Mine look with washed colors on a perfectly calibrated monitor (IPs) could you please share your settings? startup.cfg, are you using reshade?

 

Did you lower your gamma? I run fine with 1 now and it does not look as washed out as before.

[THERION]

29 minutes ago, Noisemaker said:

Good to know.  Where is it set?  I don't see anything in the Graphics settings.

 

You'll find it in the realism settings:

 

 

Cheerio

[CountZero]

And if you by any chance play on Normal realisam that setting is automatcly turned ON, its OFF on Expert realisam setting.

[=RS=Stix_09]

1 hour ago, CountZero said:

And if you by any chance play on Normal realisam that setting is automatcly turned ON, its OFF on Expert realisam setting.

ya green is normal , red settings are expert

[JG27_M-C]

14 hours ago, 69th_Panp said:

Get away from the 4 K tv and get a 4 K monitor, Most TVs process the image and use downscaling to play games at a decent frame rate.

You can see this for yourself when looking at the active signal resolution in display settings in windows.

you will have the desktop resolution, lets say 3840 x 2160 

and you will have the active signal resolution 2560 x 1440 or maybe even lower

when they differ, you tv is having to process the image, which will at most times lower the picture quality

 

to play at a decent frame rate at 3840X 2160 your Tv will most likely be at a signal resolution far lower 

The TV i had was a 4 K sony 55" Class Q90T Series QLED 4K UHD Smart 

Fantastic TV to watch TV on, but would downscale when in game mode at 120htz

in game the image would have very little depth of field which made spotting difficult

I ended up having to play at 1920x 1080 to be able to see on a 55 inch screen! 

 

I replaced it with a asus rog PG43UQ, even the smallest dot are visible now

 

Most probably the elephant in the room! ☝️

 

I have Game mode On (all processing is disabled by default) and have activated Input Signal Plus to get the most out of it. My system is old... 2013 build with an upgraded GPU (bought a 2070 last year). I will try to build a new system next year and I am willing to try VR for the first time.

 

~S~

 

PS: That PG43UQ is around 1600 EUR... unfortunately it's way out of my league. ?

Edited September 23, 2020 by JG27_M-C

[blitze]

21 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

That's already done on any server that cares to do it anyway. Only one I know of that allows 'injectors' at all is Combat Box so that the game is more playable with certain VR headsets that need the migoto zoom method to function.

 

What?  5 Levels of Zoom in VR and people still require Migoto Zoom to fly in VR?

 

Please Explain?

 

Spotting has been hugely improved in this release to a level not seen since 4.06c and maybe even better than that.  Zoom in game for both 2D Monitor Flyers and VR Flyers has multiple levels that are configurable to controllers.

 

If one tries the Alternate Visual System (or what ever it is named), one will find not only easier long distance spotting (which is pretty good now in Normal Settings i.e. a flight of fighters can be spotted beyond aircraft label's 10km limit) - but also a richer colour pallet for the Il2 world in general.  The need for 3rd party filters to run on top of Il2 is quite irrelevant but, hey - it is a "Free" World so what ever rocks peoples boats.

[RedKestrel]

1 minute ago, blitze said:

 

What?  5 Levels of Zoom in VR and people still require Migoto Zoom to fly in VR?

 

Please Explain?

 

Spotting has been hugely improved in this release to a level not seen since 4.06c and maybe even better than that.  Zoom in game for both 2D Monitor Flyers and VR Flyers has multiple levels that are configurable to controllers.

 

If one tries the Alternate Visual System (or what ever it is named), one will find not only easier long distance spotting (which is pretty good now in Normal Settings i.e. a flight of fighters can be spotted beyond aircraft label's 10km limit) - but also a richer colour pallet for the Il2 world in general.  The need for 3rd party filters to run on top of Il2 is quite irrelevant but, hey - it is a "Free" World so what ever rocks peoples boats.

My understanding is that the VR zoom as implemented in Il-2 does not work for some headsets because of how the lenses are set up - I think Pimax is one of those?. So for some VR users, the only way to get zoom at all is with the mod.
I am not an expert or VR users, just what I saw on the forums.

Also Combat Box is not going to allow injectors anymore so even on that server it will not be allowed soon.

[blitze]

Yeah - zoom works, just have to go pirate Pete by closing one eye.  Not really an issue - I was thinking people were still having spotting issues with zoom.  That being said - on Alternate view, zoom does make things a bit weird aka aircraft at distance look smaller in zoom than in the default FOV setting (No Zoom).

 

I only use zoom to Id targets close in be it in the air or on the ground.  Spotting though - flights and bombers, beyond 10km out in normal un zoomed view in VR.  Individual fighters, against a variety of backgrounds - under 5km pending on conditions and how much I have drunk.

[Guest deleted@134347]

3 minutes ago, blitze said:

aircraft at distance look smaller in zoom than in the default FOV setting (No Zoom).

 

there was a response from the devs stating it's an optical illusion. I.e. the aircraft actually stays the same size but the background gets closer/bigger and the brain can't cope with it in a logical way.  

[=RS=Stix_09]

7 hours ago, 216th_Jordan said:

 

Did you lower your gamma? I run fine with 1 now and it does not look as washed out as before.

 

This could just be related to the type of panel your monitor uses

(I have a VA panel in my monitor)

https://www.howtogeek.com/405903/what-is-a-monitors-response-time-and-why-does-it-matter/

What Kinds of Monitors Are the Fastest?

For your laptop or phone, you typically don’t have a choice for a low response time on the screen, though there are exceptions. But if you’re buying a new monitor for your gaming desktop, you’ll want the fastest panel you can afford.

At the time of writing, there are three different kinds of LCD panel that cover 99% of the monitors sold today.

• TN (Twisted Nematic) screen panels: Inexpensive, but generally have a poor color range. These are among the fastest on the market in terms of response time, and gaming monitors often choose less colorful TN panels to be faster.
• IPS (In-Plane Switching) screen panels: More expensive and with more accurate colors, IPS monitors are valued by graphic designers, photographers, video editors, and anyone for whom accurate colors are important. They have higher response times than TN panels, so are rarely marketed as “gaming” monitors.
• VA (Vertical Alignment) screen panels: A newer design that attempts to pair the fast response time of TN and the more accurate, vivid color of IPS. It’s something of a middle ground, but many gaming monitors are now made with VA panels that have refresh rates as low as one millisecond.

Edited September 23, 2020 by =RS=Stix_09

[216th_Jordan]

I have a TN panel in use since 3 years. I used an IPS before but what I mean is not connected to the panels but to how colors are displayed. I have no data to back it up though, just that I never spotted well with gamma 1.0 before and now I do. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by 216th_Jordan

[SJ_Butcher]

6 hours ago, blitze said:

 

What?  5 Levels of Zoom in VR and people still require Migoto Zoom to fly in VR?

 

Please Explain?

 

Spotting has been hugely improved in this release to a level not seen since 4.06c and maybe even better than that.  Zoom in game for both 2D Monitor Flyers and VR Flyers has multiple levels that are configurable to controllers.

 

If one tries the Alternate Visual System (or what ever it is named), one will find not only easier long distance spotting (which is pretty good now in Normal Settings i.e. a flight of fighters can be spotted beyond aircraft label's 10km limit) - but also a richer colour pallet for the Il2 world in general.  The need for 3rd party filters to run on top of Il2 is quite irrelevant but, hey - it is a "Free" World so what ever rocks peoples boats.

 

Because not every system is the same, some people don't see the improvements, simple as that.

[Patricks]

16 hours ago, =RS=Stix_09 said:

 

This could just be related to the type of panel your monitor uses

(I have a VA panel in my monitor)

https://www.howtogeek.com/405903/what-is-a-monitors-response-time-and-why-does-it-matter/

• VA (Vertical Alignment) screen panels: A newer design that attempts to pair the fast response time of TN and the more accurate, vivid color of IPS. It’s something of a middle ground, but many gaming monitors are now made with VA panels that have refresh rates as low as one millisecond.

 

I have an LG 32GK850G-B (VA) and love it. Goes as high as 165hz (GSync) and has great color and low refresh rate...

 

[=IL2AU=ToknMurican]

On 9/23/2020 at 12:14 PM, blitze said:

 

What?  5 Levels of Zoom in VR and people still require Migoto Zoom to fly in VR?

 

Please Explain?

 

Spotting has been hugely improved in this release to a level not seen since 4.06c and maybe even better than that.  Zoom in game for both 2D Monitor Flyers and VR Flyers has multiple levels that are configurable to controllers.

 

If one tries the Alternate Visual System (or what ever it is named), one will find not only easier long distance spotting (which is pretty good now in Normal Settings i.e. a flight of fighters can be spotted beyond aircraft label's 10km limit) - but also a richer colour pallet for the Il2 world in general.  The need for 3rd party filters to run on top of Il2 is quite irrelevant but, hey - it is a "Free" World so what ever rocks peoples boats.

 

0.o  Let's not act like zooming in VR at the same distance offers the same benefit it gives people on a monitor.   I could clearly make out wing shapes and see smaller details like how many radiators and whether they were on wings or fuselage from relatively far distances with max zoom on a 3440x1440 screen where I have to be within about 1-3KM to make out any of those details in VR while zooming, and that's with supersampling + msaa 4x.  I'm glad I don't have to keep installing 3dmigoto after every update, but I do miss being able to zoom in enough to actually see details before I'd spent all my energy or abused my engine getting close. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by =IL2AU=ToknMurican

[hal_900]

flickering is persistant on fxaa and msaa no matter what level its set to, there is also additional flicker going on somewhere which is unfortunate. Updated epilepsy warning anywhere?

 

Edit: there is no difference having FXAA OFF and X4 based on what I'm seeing on the homescreen where the hangar camera pans round the plane, the flicker of the straight lines is the same on the railings. - is FXAA removed in this update?

 

If I set MXAA to x8 the jagged line flicker is reduced somewhat but this causes me other issues.

 

Also updated my drivers and this has made no difference.

Edited September 25, 2020 by hal_900

[blitze]

1 hour ago, =IL2AU=ToknMurican said:

 

0.o  Let's not act like zooming in VR at the same distance offers the same benefit it gives people on a monitor.   I could clearly make out wing shapes and see smaller details like how many radiators and whether they were on wings or fuselage from relatively far distances with max zoom on a 3440x1440 screen where I have to be within about 1-3KM to make out any of those details in VR while zooming, and that's with supersampling + msaa 4x.  I'm glad I don't have to keep installing 3dmigoto after every update, but I do miss being able to zoom in enough to actually see details before I'd spent all my energy or abused my engine getting close. 

 

Maybe, the combination of high SuperSampling with MSAA x4 is causing you issues in VR. 

 

Personally I find MSAA in VR softens (blurs) the image and prefer either low VR SS with FXAA or no in game AA with higher VR SS.

Going for both is a no no for me as the returns are poor image quality wise as well as FPS wise.

[=IL2AU=ToknMurican]

1 hour ago, blitze said:

 

Maybe, the combination of high SuperSampling with MSAA x4 is causing you issues in VR. 

 

Personally I find MSAA in VR softens (blurs) the image and prefer either low VR SS with FXAA or no in game AA with higher VR SS.

Going for both is a no no for me as the returns are poor image quality wise as well as FPS wise.

 

You get that my HMD requires SS to to even get close to rendering the amount of pixels of your Pimax's native resolution right?  I've tried various combinations of settings and MSAA on provides the sharpest image and most defined aircraft shapes with my headset. Regardless of settings... VR doesn't offer the sharpness of silhouettes that one can get using a monitor from far distances.   Period.  Thanks.. I've got plenty of experience with both.   The addition of various levels of zoom in VR is a nice touch, but it doesn't quite offer a level playing field with visibility on a monitor, which was my only reason for using 3dmigoto to begin with.  Specifically talking about identification at range, of which you admitted you even struggle with outside of 5km in VR.  I could ID well outside of 5km before switching to VR, at least enough to know whether I was looking at a friend or foe.   Not sure why you're deflecting.  Regardless of how it effects performance at 8k or your upscaled resolution, MSAA offers a sharper image than SteamVR SS alone, or FXAA, or no AA at all.   And it's still not as defined as what one sees on a monitor. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by =IL2AU=ToknMurican

[blitze]

1 hour ago, =IL2AU=ToknMurican said:

You get that my HMD requires SS to to even get close to rendering the amount of pixels of your Pimax's native resolution right?

 

You don't want to render the same amount of pixels of my headset's native resolution.  You want to render what works with your headset or a factor of it.  BTW, I work with approx 2K vertical res per eye - beyond that sucks either visually (if not a factor of native res or FPS wise as my GPU can't keep up).

 

Drink a bottle of Vodka - then all is clear ?

[=IL2AU=ToknMurican]

35 minutes ago, blitze said:

 

You don't want to render the same amount of pixels of my headset's native resolution.  You want to render what works with your headset or a factor of it.  BTW, I work with approx 2K vertical res per eye - beyond that sucks either visually (if not a factor of native res or FPS wise as my GPU can't keep up).

 

Drink a bottle of Vodka - then all is clear ?

You seem to be missing the point.  I'm not asking for advice on graphics settings.  I never said anything about me trying to render at your resolution.. just that your performance will differ from mine unless I do render at your resolution, and even then I'm running a different system and gpu than you.     No amount of changing graphics settings will change the fact that there is less clarity in VR vs a monitor and this has been a known factor since day one of VR which to this day is still true.  Your own previous comments allude to this as well.  Hence, definition of objects at further distances are easier to make out on a monitor, given your system has the specs to run some form of anti-aliasing. . Identification is easier on a monitor, even with the addition of the VR zoom function.  Period.  The end.    I'm done with the subject, at least with you.    Have a good day. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by =IL2AU=ToknMurican

[blitze]

14 minutes ago, =IL2AU=ToknMurican said:

Have a good day

 

You too.

[=IL2AU=ToknMurican]

1 minute ago, blitze said:

 

You too.

Thanks kindly.  No hard feelings or anything, just talking in circles.  

[Guest deleted@83466]

Very pleased with the improvements in spotting.   No more of this issue for me where the enemy aircraft would dissapear briefly behind the canopy framing as you turned in, and then not being able to find him again even though you know he should be right in front of you. 

[LachenKrieg]

On 9/19/2020 at 6:58 AM, Han said:

 

Sorry. Lools like fix of the trouble that M4 commander should not use pistol/binos in same time with machinegun went wrong. To be fixed soon.

At the moment - just hit "T" key again - pistols and binoculars will be available again.

Thanks for informing us that you are aware and that a fix is being worked on.

[HKLE2]

On 9/17/2020 at 3:10 PM, The_GhostRider said:

I've been flying in expert mode in VR for a few weeks trying to get the hang of it and previously it was really tough to spot anything at distance and ground targets even more so. I just flew a mission in QMB and the changes in spotting are amazing! Both air and ground are much better. I find it a lot easier to keep sight of enemy A/C even when they are below.

Thanks for the update, I'm off to see if how long I can survive in the Career mode ? 

 

The_GhostRider

 

What is good for you, is obviously bad for others. (there is one post in mission editor forum, who mentions this as well)

 

I am a more casual player in VR - meaning i do not play in expert mode. I find the new airplane silhouettes way overblown. In distances like 600 m - 3 kms, I now see planes litterally "crawling" along the sky like flies on a window. Airplanes flying away from me seem to get smaller until a distance around 500-600 m or so and then ... no size changes until they are a few kms away. Honestly, this ruins a lot of the immersion and experience for me. I was perfectly happy with the old settings - dear devs: It would be nice, if there was a possibility to choose silhouette size (classic or new) - or at least a reasonable scaling back of this effect in one of the next patches - all in all, this is a simulation, right ? Thx a lot for considering

 

I

[216th_Jordan]

18 hours ago, HKLE2 said:

 

What is good for you, is obviously bad for others. (there is one post in mission editor forum, who mentions this as well)

 

I am a more casual player in VR - meaning i do not play in expert mode. I find the new airplane silhouettes way overblown. In distances like 600 m - 3 kms, I now see planes litterally "crawling" along the sky like flies on a window. Airplanes flying away from me seem to get smaller until a distance around 500-600 m or so and then ... no size changes until they are a few kms away. Honestly, this ruins a lot of the immersion and experience for me. I was perfectly happy with the old settings - dear devs: It would be nice, if there was a possibility to choose silhouette size (classic or new) - or at least a reasonable scaling back of this effect in one of the next patches - all in all, this is a simulation, right ? Thx a lot for considering

 

I

 

You could just choose custom realism and unselected enhanced spotting.

[RoteDreizehn]

On 9/26/2020 at 6:46 PM, HKLE2 said:

 

What is good for you, is obviously bad for others. (there is one post in mission editor forum, who mentions this as well)

 

I am a more casual player in VR - meaning i do not play in expert mode. I find the new airplane silhouettes way overblown. In distances like 600 m - 3 kms, I now see planes litterally "crawling" along the sky like flies on a window. Airplanes flying away from me seem to get smaller until a distance around 500-600 m or so and then ... no size changes until they are a few kms away. Honestly, this ruins a lot of the immersion and experience for me. I was perfectly happy with the old settings - dear devs: It would be nice, if there was a possibility to choose silhouette size (classic or new) - or at least a reasonable scaling back of this effect in one of the next patches - all in all, this is a simulation, right ? Thx a lot for considering

 

 

 

In my Opinion, he is right. In Multiplayer it's a litte bit too overdone. I am pretty sure that in reality (600 m - 3 kms)  you cant see the planes so big.

It remembers me on very old DCS Times as they did this about the same spotting problem. Thankfull they fixed it and have a lot improved.

Edited September 27, 2020 by RoteDreizehn

[Mollotin]

On 9/26/2020 at 7:46 PM, HKLE2 said:

 

What is good for you, is obviously bad for others. (there is one post in mission editor forum, who mentions this as well)

 

I am a more casual player in VR - meaning i do not play in expert mode. I find the new airplane silhouettes way overblown. In distances like 600 m - 3 kms, I now see planes litterally "crawling" along the sky like flies on a window. Airplanes flying away from me seem to get smaller until a distance around 500-600 m or so and then ... no size changes until they are a few kms away. Honestly, this ruins a lot of the immersion and experience for me. I was perfectly happy with the old settings - dear devs: It would be nice, if there was a possibility to choose silhouette size (classic or new) - or at least a reasonable scaling back of this effect in one of the next patches - all in all, this is a simulation, right ? Thx a lot for considering

 

I

 

so u have enchanted aircraft visibility on? Try turning it off and see if u like it more.

 

I think the new spotting is just perfect. I dont play in VR tho.

[Noisemaker]

On 9/23/2020 at 12:16 PM, THERION said:

 

You'll find it in the realism settings:

 

 

Cheerio

Found it, and yep, that was the problem.  Damn this game looks amazing now!.

[357th_KW]

I’m loving the new haze options combined with the new visibility settings.  Would it be possible to see another big “environmental” improvement by making precipitation a separate option from solid overcast?  It’d be great if you could have a solid overcast without any rain/snow, and even better would be variable intensity rain/snow.

[Gambit21]

3 hours ago, KW_1979 said:

It’d be great if you could have a solid overcast without any rain/snow,

 

This is already possible/how it works.

Precip is a separate setting.

[357th_KW]

1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

 

This is already possible/how it works.

Precip is a separate setting.

 

That's awesome!  They used to be linked, I didn't realize this had already been changed.

[Gambit21]

14 minutes ago, KW_1979 said:

 

That's awesome!  They used to be linked, I didn't realize this had already been changed.

 

They haven’t been linked since I’ve been building missions - several years. Not sure they ever were. The only limitation is that precip is only available with the overcast presets.

[Danziger]

I updated straight away when the update came out with no problems but I haven't had time to play it until now. Really nice work! Those new textures for the P-39 and G6 look amazing!

[Heliopause]

Arm hanging out