Effectiveness of PTABs On Player Tanks

[[CPT]milopugdog]

Howdy all!

 

I have been testing PTABs as an anti-tank weapon with @[N.O.G.F]Leon_Portier , and we've come to the conclusion that they are virtually ineffective against player tanks. When used against player tanks, this weapon does no more damage than an HE round, if that. The only damage experiments experienced throughout this process were a few dead commanders, some cut tracks, and damaged paint. While the bomblets behave this way with player tanks, they are capable of knocking out AI tanks as advertised.

 

But first off, what even are PTABs? Well, they're those little bomblets for the IL-2 1943 that people rarely use.

The PTAB is a shaped charge (HEAT) bomblet, weighing 2.5kg with 1.5kg of explosives. They're supposedly able to penetrate between 60-70mm of armor, which means that they should be more than capable of damaging tanks. (wikipedia)

<--- (cross section)

 

 

There are a few things to note about using these in-game:

1. Quantity:

The IL-2 has the option to carry either 192-240 of these small devices, and drop them out of it's internal bomb bays. You can control how many you drop, with a minimum of 2 bays filled (192), or all 4 bays filled (240)

2. Altitude/speed:

These weapons have a minimum drop altitude of about 50m, meaning any lower than that and they will not arm and detonate. Any fuse times you choose in the hangar will not be applied; they explode on contact. Therefore, spread of bombs in the x-axis can be controlled by increasing/decreasing altitude, and spread in the y-axis by accelerate/decelerating the aircraft.

 

 

 

THE EXPERIMENTS:

AI testing:

I did conduct AI tests, but did not record it as this video shows how they work. It's old, but it works the same:

Spoiler

 

 

Fuse testing:

 

First we dropped bombs low to see what would happen. Nothing, they bounced off the tanks harmlessly.

Continuing this, we established our ideal drop altitude: 50-100m.

 

Damage testing:

 

In short, what can the bombs damage currently?

The answer: The same things HE shells can damage; tracks, exposed crews, visors, and exterior panels/objects.

 

After 16 minutes of being bombed in the Panther, I came out with one destroyed visor, a dead commander (he was exposed), and scratched paint:

 

We also tested the bomblets against the Tiger I, and Panzer III M, which had similarly minuscule results.

 

SO this is the end!

If you could share your own experiences with these weapons and if you've gotten them to work against tanks properly, that would help immensely!

 

Devs, if you see this, could it be looked into? It is a massive shame that such a weapon cannot be used for it's intended purpose.

Spoiler

And maybe add PTABs for the U-2? ?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by [CPT]milopugdog

[Leon_Portier]

All the testing was fun, I can second everything Milo said.

Edit: We also tested the Panzer 4 with same results.

Edited August 23, 2020 by [N.O.G.F]Leon_Portier

[beresford]

Thanks for the minimum height info. I was wondering how I dropped all those PTABs at point-blank range and they did b-all. Any info on the drop trajectory, do they prescribe a forward parabola to the ground as you might expect or do they just drop straight down?

[[KG]Destaex]

I cannot wait for player controlled anti aircraft guns to come out and be tested. Should greatly discourage such low attacks.

[[CPT]milopugdog]

11 hours ago, beresford said:

Thanks for the minimum height info. I was wondering how I dropped all those PTABs at point-blank range and they did b-all. Any info on the drop trajectory, do they prescribe a forward parabola to the ground as you might expect or do they just drop straight down?

I usually drop them about 2 or 3 seconds before my target to get it right in the middle of the spread. Due to the nature of the bomblets, it isn't possible to fly at my recommended altitude and have the bombs facing directly down as if you were dive bombing. Although, due to the weapon's warhead it shouldn't matter; and things like artillery, trucks, and AI tanks are easily destroyed providing you are on-target.

 

58 minutes ago, [KG]Destaex said:

I cannot wait for player controlled anti aircraft guns to come out and be tested. Should greatly discourage such low attacks.

That's assuming player controlled AAA will be in play all the time.

[[KG]Destaex]

The problem as I see it in the multiplayer part of this game “might be” that currently you are going to have a disproportionate and unhistorical number of aircraft compared to player controlled tanks. Their is a danger that the tank players would be discouraged by what aircraft players would normally consider vulching. 

I know people say, but what about your fighter cover. Well if player tanks are around I want the tankers to be able to switch into ai aa escorts. Then you can take your perfectly kitted out anti tank aircraft of choice. Otherwise it will be very frustrating to have your whole tank experience being one of constant air attack without any defence. Tankers should be able to do something about enemy aircraft themselves.

Edited August 24, 2020 by [KG]Destaex

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, [KG]Destaex said:

I cannot wait for player controlled anti aircraft guns to come out and be tested. Should greatly discourage such low attacks.

 

53 minutes ago, [KG]Destaex said:

The problem as I see it in the multiplayer part of this game “might be” that currently you are going to have a disproportionate and unhistorical number of aircraft compared to player controlled tanks. Their is a danger that the tank players would be discouraged by what aircraft players would normally consider vulching. 

I know people say, but what about your fighter cover. Well if player tanks are around I want the tankers to be able to switch into ai aa escorts. Then you can take your perfectly kitted out anti tank aircraft of choice. Otherwise it will be very frustrating to have your whole tank experience being one of constant air attack without any defence. Tankers should be able to do something about enemy aircraft themselves.

 

Please stay on-topic

[Chief_Mouser]

I did some tests when the PTABS first came out. Chances of killing a tank? Almost nil. Haven't used them since. Shame, as they should be more effective.

[[CPT]milopugdog]

7 hours ago, [KG]Destaex said:

The problem as I see it in the multiplayer part of this game “might be” that currently you are going to have a disproportionate and unhistorical number of aircraft compared to player controlled tanks. Their is a danger that the tank players would be discouraged by what aircraft players would normally consider vulching. 

I know people say, but what about your fighter cover. Well if player tanks are around I want the tankers to be able to switch into ai aa escorts. Then you can take your perfectly kitted out anti tank aircraft of choice. Otherwise it will be very frustrating to have your whole tank experience being one of constant air attack without any defence. Tankers should be able to do something about enemy aircraft themselves.

Aircraft attacking tanks are essentially useless because the weapons they carry don't do the damage they probably should against player tanks regardless.

 

Which highlights why I made this thread; I don't know why PTABs dropped directly on tanks don't do damage, or why a 1000kg bomb dropped right next to a tank doesn't do anything, but that's how it is.

 

As a tanker, and as a pilot;  I think that's wrong.

 

 

6 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

 

Please stay on-topic

Of course, this applies to me as well. Back on it!

Edited August 25, 2020 by [CPT]milopugdog

[[CPT]milopugdog]

6 hours ago, 216th_Cat said:

I did some tests when the PTABS first came out. Chances of killing a tank? Almost nil. Haven't used them since. Shame, as they should be more effective.

A problem with the weapon against AI vehicles is the amount of explosives. The user will have to identify the target and then about how much payload he should drop on it.

With lighter or open top vehicles; not a lot are needed since the explosions can knock out crew, etc.

 

I knocked out this Marder III with 1 bomb bay worth of PTABs:

 

Then mix in the armor of a tank, and you will need more than that. I've found that 3-4 bomb bays work on a single target.

Maybe if you're really good you can bag one with 1-2? But I'm not there quite yet.

 

This Pz.III took 4 bays worth:

 

Just food for thought. I'll keep practicing to see if better results can be produced.

Edited August 25, 2020 by [CPT]milopugdog

[SCG_judgedeath3]

I hope you are not using time fuzes as that makes the bomb go deeper into the soil/earth and taking most of the blast which explains why bombs nearby tanks wont do much as most of the explosion will travel upwards and the shrapnel wont do much to a armoured tank. Contact bombs blows up on contact so most of the explosion will hit the objects around. Not 100% if the game has that level of realism but could be.

[[CPT]milopugdog]

7 hours ago, SCG_judgedeath3 said:

I hope you are not using time fuzes as that makes the bomb go deeper into the soil/earth and taking most of the blast which explains why bombs nearby tanks wont do much as most of the explosion will travel upwards and the shrapnel wont do much to a armoured tank. Contact bombs blows up on contact so most of the explosion will hit the objects around. Not 100% if the game has that level of realism but could be.

From my original post:

Quote

2. Altitude/speed:

These weapons have a minimum drop altitude of about 50m, meaning any lower than that and they will not arm and detonate. Any fuse times you choose in the hangar will not be applied; they explode on contact. Therefore, spread of bombs in the x-axis can be controlled by increasing/decreasing altitude, and spread in the y-axis by accelerate/decelerating the aircraft.

 

[jollyjack]

Agree, they don't work )anymore?), tried them last week .... pity

I now use a halberstadt to kill my tigers .... uvs2 also cannot.

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=109002

Edited October 11, 2020 by jollyjack