I./KG 51 airfield locations in early 1944

[LukeFF]

Hey all, 

 

I'm trying to determine the timeline of the airfields occupied by I./KG 51 during the time it flew the Me 410 over England. The info provided by "Bomber Units of the Luftwaffe"  and Dierich's book on KG 51 has been helpful, but I'd like to know what "Das Flurschaden-Geschwader" has to say about this topic. Thanks!

[rowdyb00t]

@LukeFF

 

   Try this on for size, if you haven’t seen this yet

https://asisbiz.com/luftwaffe/kg51.html

[busdriver]

@LukeFF I checked https://www.ww2.dk/lwairfields.html searching the PDFs. I came up with:

Dreux, France (I lived here in 1961) Apr--May 1944

Lechfeld, Germany May--Jul 1944

Creil, France Aug 1944

Rhein/Two, Germany Sep 1944--Mar 1945

 

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by busdriver

[sevenless]

4 hours ago, LukeFF said:

but I'd like to know what "Das Flurschaden-Geschwader" has to say about this topic. Thanks!

 

I think I can help you there. Here goes:

 

06/02/44 refitting with Me 410-A1 in Lechfeld 

23/02/44 1./KG 51 Hptm. Unrau - Saint-Andre-d-l´Eure, 2./KG 51 Hptm. Mueller - Dreux, 3./KG 51 Hptm. Gutzmer - Evreux

29/02/44 I./KG 51 transfer to France complete, Hptm. Unrau takes over I./KG 51

23/05/44 all squadrons I./KG 51 back to Memmingen for Me 262 training

02/06/44 1./KG 51 Landsberg, 2./KG 51 Lechfeld, 3./KG 51 Leipheim

24/07/44 3./KG 51 (no planes only ground personal) Chateaudun

12/08/44 I./KG 51 Etampes (no planes)

23/08/44 3./KG 51 Juvingcourt (5 Me 262 started from Schwaebisch-Hall to Juvincourt, one plane crashed, 4 Me 262 landed - renamed to Kdo. Schenk. planes No. 9K-DL, 9K-GL, 9K-IL, 9K-HL)

25/08/44 Strength return Kdo. Schenk 4 planes, Me 262-A1

27/08/44 Strength return 4 planes

29/08/44 Volkel (Kdo. Schenk dissolved, again 3./KG51)

04/09/44 Hopsten

05/09/44 Rheine

 

[LukeFF]

Thank you! Question about these dates:

 

24/07/44 3./KG 51 (no planes only ground personal) Chateaudun

12/08/44 I./KG 51 Etampes (no planes)

 

Wolfgang Dierich's book mentions that they moved to Chateaudun with 9 planes. Did they in fact not have any planes? Furthermore, when were missions first flown from French airfields?

Edited August 18, 2020 by LukeFF

[sevenless]

1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

Thank you! Question about these dates:

 

24/07/44 3./KG 51 (no planes only ground personal) Chateaudun

12/08/44 I./KG 51 Etampes (no planes)

 

Wolfgang Dierich's book mentions that they moved to Chateaudun with 9 planes. Did they in fact not have any planes? Furthermore, when were missions first flown from French airfields?

 

No, they did not have any Me 262 planes in France before 23/08/44. They did not move to Chateaudun with 9 planes. I also have Dierichs book, both german and the english Schiffer version. What happened was the following:

 

On 20/08/44 nine machines of Kdo. Schenk are ordered to start at Lechfeld to move to Ulm. During takeoff 20:00h two machines crash. One of those Lt. Rolf Weidemann (WerkNr. 170 059), machine had 60% damage.

 

On 21/08/44 the remaining 7 machines start from Ulm to Schwaebisch-Hall. Takeoff 13:00h - Landing 13:12h at Schwaebisch-Hall, where an additional machine crashed. That leaves Kdo. Schenk with 6 planes remaining.

 

In the evening of 23/08/44 five machines start at Schwaebisch-Hall with the direction Juvincourt at 17:45 hours. OFw Lauer (flying 9K-GL WerkNr. 170 002) landed there 18:25, as did three others. One machine didn´t find the airfield and crashed near Juvincourt. That leaves 4 machines operational (9K-DL WerkNr. 130 182, 9K-GL WerkNr 170 002, 9K-IL WerkNr 170 004, 9K-HL 170 016). See strength return to IX. Fliegerkorps of 24/08/44. Kdo. Schenk initially had six machines in Schwaebisch-Hall,  the four above and additionally 9K-BL WerkNr. 130 180 and 9K-EL WerkNr. 130 183. One of those two got lost in the crash at Juvincourt and the other didn´t even start at Schwaebisch-Hall on 23/08/44.

 

First operational sortie from Juvincourt was flown on 25/08/44 at 09:34h to attack troop concentrations near Bonnieres-sur-Seine with 3 machines and AB500/SD10 dropping them from 3-4000metres altitude. Same day 11:37h a second attack was flown with 4 planes returning 12:18h to Juvincourt. Another attack went out at 15:00 with 4 planes returning at 15:40h. One of the planes crashed at Juvincourt and another near the frontline. That means at 25/08/44 Kdo.Schenk was down to two operational planes. These two went out again at 17:51h and returned at 18:49h, only to start again at 20:40h for the last attack of the day and to return 21:11h to Juvincourt.

 

On 26/08/44 these two machines (one of them 9K-GL WerkNr. 170 002) attack targets near Melun. Strenth return to IX.Korps show 2 planes operational and 2 planes in repair.

On 27/08/44 again target Melun. Strength return 3 planes operational and one in repair. At 19:45h IX. Korps orders Kdo. Schenk to move to Volkel.

28/08/44 OFw Lauer with 9K-GL WerkNr 170 002 takes off (09:45) to Volkel via Athies-Chievres and lands there 10:11h. Starts again to Volkel at 18:25h (landing gear not fully retractable) and is spotted by Thunderbolts at 18:45h near Termonde and is forced to crash land near Haaltert near Aalst. See combat report Maj. Joseph Myers 82nd FS. Another Me 262 (9K-DL WerkNr. 130 182) had to crash land near Charleville-Mezieres with 70% damage.

 

29/08/44 One of the remaining two operational machines attack a target between Coulommiers and Rozoy. Strength return to IX. Korps is all three remaining machines arrived at Volkel. The report notes 2 machines operational and one in repair (9K-GL). At two machines the noses needed to be changed (takes 24hours) at another plane the landing gear needed to be changed (24hours effort).

 

So in conclusion, Me 262 usage in France was sorties of 4 - 1 plane against targets near and north of the Seine for six days from 23/08/44 to 29/08/44 dropping SD500s from 3.000-4.000metres against area targets.

Edited August 18, 2020 by sevenless

[LukeFF]

9 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

No, they did not have any Me 262 planes in France before 25/08/44. They did not move to Chateaudun with 9 planes. I also have Dierichs book, both german and the english Schiffer version. What happened was the following...

 

Much, much appreciated! Thank you!

[sevenless]

1 minute ago, LukeFF said:

 

Much, much appreciated! Thank you!

 

You´re welcome. Take note I made a typo. Arrival date is 23/08/44 after 18:25h. Corrected it in my post.

Edited August 18, 2020 by sevenless

[LukeFF]

13 minutes ago, sevenless said:

You´re welcome. Take note I made a typo. Arrival date is 23/08/44. Corrected it in my post.

 

Got it. Thanks! 

 

By the way, is there any info in that book about I./SKG 10's operations during June 1944? I saw on another site that its operations are covered in the book, since it eventually became the re-created III./KG 51. In particular, I'd like to know its airfield timeline and what sort of missions it was flying. There's a note on Caldwell's book on JG 26 that I./SKG 10 had orders by June 10 to transfer to Fliegerkorps IX, a night bombing command.

 

This is what I have for its airfield timeline at the moment, gathered from various sources:

 

06.06.44 - 20.06.44    Laval
20.06.44 - 27.06.44    Avord
27.06.44 - 01.07.44    Conches
01.07.44 - 31.07.44    Jakobstadt

Edited August 18, 2020 by LukeFF

[sevenless]

41 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

This is what I have for its airfield timeline at the moment, gathered from various sources:

 

06.06.44 - 20.06.44    Laval
20.06.44 - 27.06.44    Avord
27.06.44 - 01.07.44    Conches
01.07.44 - 31.07.44    Jakobstadt

 

Nope, none of that airfields is mentioned in the book. As for operational airfields, I./SKG 10 (III./KG 51 from 8th July 44 onwards) used the following:

 

CO III./KG 51 Major Dahlmann

CO 7./KG 51 Olt. Erich Wolf

CO 8./KG 51 OLt Karl-Heinz Stuermer

CO 9./KG 51 Helmut Eberspächer

CO Erg. (Nacht) III./KG 51 OLt Joachim Rueck

 

06/06/44 Rosieres-en-Santerre 7./KG 51 and 9./KG 51 and Tours (west) 8./KG 51

Strength early June = 7 Fw 190 G8/R5 and 26 Fw 190 G3

Strength early July = 2 Fw 190-G8/R5 and 20 Fw 190-G3

02/08/44 7./KG 51 and 9./KG 51 move from Rosieres to Dreux, 8./KG 51 stays at Tours
08/08/44 8./KG 51 moves from Tours to Amy
26/08/44 III./KG 51 from Tours to Le Culot
03/09/44 III./KG 51 from Le Culot to Bonn-Hangelar
 

As for operational sorties. No details given for 06/44. The book gets into fine details from 19/07/44 onwards.

Edited August 18, 2020 by sevenless

[LukeFF]

Thank you again! ?