New Velikie Luki Summer map

[Gambit21]

 

 

@zeus-- stellar job!

Among other things, that railroad marshaling yard is top drawer my friend.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Gambit21

[ShamrockOneFive]

Yep, incredible work by @zeus-- on this map. I love flying over it!

[Lusekofte]

I took a two hour tour in PO 2/U2 

marvelous map. I admit I spent a little time trying to look at pilots boob’s , but giving that up the rest of the trip was spent on bomb training and scenic tours with a few lawndarts inbetween. 
I would say I liked it very much

[40plus]

Just flew over it for the first time. It truly is a pretty map. Well done to the artists who created it 

[Chief_Mouser]

It's a wonderful map, truly a labour of love. I've been reading 'Barbarosss Derailed' by David Glantz in order to get an idea of what went on around there in July and August 41 and there are plenty of things we can do with this map. Cheers Zeus, great job! ?

 

[Danziger]

Love this map. I wish the official developed maps would concentrate more on details than size. I really doubt people actually fly from one side of the Rhineland map to the other on a regular basis. I think instead of really large maps with lack of details, I would rather have smaller tactical maps with more details.

[sevenless]

On 8/28/2020 at 11:26 AM, Danziger said:

I really doubt people actually fly from one side of the Rhineland map to the other on a regular basis. I think instead of really large maps with lack of details, I would rather have smaller tactical maps with more details.

 

That would not even be necessary. On Rhineland you have, what I would call "focal areas", where most of the SP-career missions take place and you have areas which aren´t overflown by any SP-career mission at all. I would hazard a guess that these "focal areas" are at most 1/4-1/3 of the total map area. So for SP gameplay it would be absolutely sufficient to pimp these focal areas around Nijmegen, Arnhem, Brussels, Cleve, Wesel, Cologne, Bonn, etc with more detail like that extraordinary marshalling yard of Veliike Luki, twin rail lines, Windmills, villages etc...

[HBB*Hunger]

Does anyone know anything about wich air units were involved in the military operations by july 1941 around that place? 

Edited August 31, 2020 by HBB*Hunger

[sevenless]

32 minutes ago, HBB*Hunger said:

Does anyone know anything about wich air units were involved in the military operations by july 1941 around that place? 

 

Maybe this helps:

 

https://codenames.info/operation/velikiye-luki-offensive-operation/

[Chief_Mouser]

3 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

Maybe this helps:

 

https://codenames.info/operation/velikiye-luki-offensive-operation/

 

Ah, that's for the Winter Map in 42/43. It would be good if there was something as detailed for July and August 41. As said above, I'm reading 'Barbarossa Derailed' which has all the details about the land units involved, but almost nothing about the Luftwaffe or VVS.

[sevenless]

13 minutes ago, 216th_Cat said:

 

Ah, that's for the Winter Map in 42/43. It would be good if there was something as detailed for July and August 41. As said above, I'm reading 'Barbarossa Derailed' which has all the details about the land units involved, but almost nothing about the Luftwaffe or VVS.

 

I guess apart from Operation Mars (42/43) there was no significant action there in summer of 41 (Juli/August). The center of activities after Typhoon in 41/42 was more in the Rzhev - Vjazma region starting with the soviet counteroffensive 12/41 , the so called meatgrinder of Rzhev.

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by sevenless

[Juri_JS]

5 hours ago, HBB*Hunger said:

Does anyone know anything about wich air units were involved in the military operations by july 1941 around that place? 

Luftwaffe activity only increased in early August 1941 in the Velikie Luki area, when Stukas of StG 1 began to support the troops on the ground. III/JG 53 was also send to the region. Its Bf109F fighters were based on a forward airfield 60 km south of Toropets.  Apparently some recon units were active too.

I have no information on Soviet units, but JG 53 victory reports mention Mig-3s, DB-3s, I-153s, I-16s and Il-2s.

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Juri_JS

[Chief_Mouser]

3 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

I guess apart from Operation Mars (42/43) there was no significant action there in summer of 41 (Juli/August). The center of activities after Typhoon in 41/42 was more in the Rzhev - Vjazma region starting with the soviet counteroffensive 12/41 , the so called meatgrinder of Rzhev.

 

 

 

It had its own little flurry of action on 19-20 July and in late August. 19 Pz. pushed on to Velikiye Luki - after capturing Nevel - due to a communication mix-up, it was only supposed to be a recce. They captured the town but couldn't hold on to it after chasing Russian units to the south. The front line stayed to the west of the city until 26th August when the Germans captured it again and pushed on towards the East.

Edited August 31, 2020 by 216th_Cat

[HBB*Hunger]

16 hours ago, Juri_JS said:

Luftwaffe activity only increased in early August 1941 in the Velikie Luki area, when Stukas of StG 1 began to support the troops on the ground. III/JG 53 was also send to the region. Its Bf109F fighters were based on a forward airfield 60 km south of Toropets.  Apparently some recon units were active too.

I have no information on Soviet units, but JG 53 victory reports mention Mig-3s, DB-3s, I-153s, I-16s and Il-2s.

 

 

Thank you very much! So we have III/JG53 and StG1 operating there, question now is; what VVS units where active

Edited September 1, 2020 by HBB*Hunger

[AEthelraedUnraed]

And does anyone have any information about air operations in the area in 1942/1943, as the front line goes right through the map throughout that period?

 

I suppose Novosokolniki, being a railway hub, was under the occasional attack?

 

[Chief_Mouser]

7 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

And does anyone have any information about air operations in the area in 1942/1943, as the front line goes right through the map throughout that period?

 

I suppose Novosokolniki, being a railway hub, was under the occasional attack?

 

 

Between July 25, 1941 and January 29, 1944, Novosokolniki was occupied by German troops - wikipedia.

So if anyone was attacking it, it would have to be the VVS.

 

Here's an earlier picture - 8th July 41. Bombed by III/StG.2.

 

Edit: I believe I've identified the spot - 56° 08' 00 N   30° 01' 31 E.

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by 216th_Cat

[Retnek]

Most important for the Germans was the main North-South railroad line from St. Peterburg to Kiev passing through Novosokolniki. Logistics in Russia depended on railroads, almost completely. This line allowed them to quickly exchange troops between the Army Groups North, Middle and South. The other main West-East line from Riga to Moscow passing through Novosokolniki and Velikie-Luki was important in 1941. The failure to conquer Moscow scaled down the importance of the E-W direction.
So the main objective for the Germans was to defend the N-S-connection. They were able to stop the Soviet offensive in Winter 1942-43 after the battle of Velikie-Luki. But at some places the Russians came very near to the railroad St. Peterburg - Kiev, within artillery range. I don't know if the Germans in 1943 still were able to use the full capacity of that line.

[Hanu]

The map is absolutely great, but does anyone else using mission builder has problems with landings with this map?

 

In my MP mission with lots of AI I'm using same the flight groups as in other maps, but AI pilots cannot manage to land if they have been diverted back to airfield because of "AI Return to Base Decision". (ie. they've been damaged, or bingo ammo etc). In this case AI should point to nearest friendly base with fakefield_rnwspawn and use its Airfield Chart for landing (or direction of the fakefield), but in this map they approach from completely incorrect direction, put landing gear down, close in some time, and then abort the landing and keep circling the airfield. Prokhorovka has similar issues. I've seen this happening on Velikie Luki airfield where fixed approach line seems to be from east and Dvin'ye from the north if they are the closest fields for damaged AI. And those Charts nor airfield directions are not even close to that. More like 135 degrees off.

 

If they follow the flight plan (ie. "AI Return to Base Decision" does not trigger during the mission) they seem to land successfully following to land command.

 

I wonder if there is some built-in stuff withing airbase areas, which overrides the Mission Builder?

 

I'm not reporting any bug yet, I'd have make extensive test before this, but just wondering if others have met this issue? I'm just puzzled as the same flight groups do not seem to work here or Prokhorovka map. In Kuban for example AI has no problems.

[Avimimus]

I've gotten to use it more... and I now want derivable trains and boats! The world feels much more real and alive... quite a labour of love... it is now my default map! Really well done.

 

Honestly, I'd be happier with more smaller maps like these with customised details (rather than ever larger maps). Of course, I can see with maps like Normandy how capturing the battle requires the English coast and quite a way into the interior of France... and I also want Dieppe to be detailed because the Dieppe raid and Operation Jubilee are so important to to us Canadians. and to the history of the Normandy invasions... so - I suppose I want everything. But I it is this map that I love.