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Radiator's settings: FW190 A5, A8, D9; BF110 E, G


ZeroCrack01
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A5 and A8 have manual cooling cowls and I leave them mostly at 50% open pos. Same as for the D9's thermostat and for water and oil cooler of the BF110 E and G models. I know that they can cause quite some drag so I want to ask if you have some experience with good radiator settings (nominal/ combat power)? In that regard I do not find much reference for that. Thanks in advance 🤗

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/16/2020 at 10:00 AM, ZeroCrack01 said:

A5 and A8 have manual cooling cowls and I leave them mostly at 50% open pos. Same as for the D9's thermostat and for water and oil cooler of the BF110 E and G models. I know that they can cause quite some drag so I want to ask if you have some experience with good radiator settings (nominal/ combat power)? In that regard I do not find much reference for that. Thanks in advance 🤗

Looks like the forum is less active than reddit lately surprised nobody answered you!

 

For the A5 and A8 cowl flaps:

-Open on ground/taxi/takeoff

-Close fully for the rest of the flight, you can monitor the oil temp bottom-middle of the cockpit. As far as I know I don't think there's a gauge for cylinder head.

 

I've found it only overheats on battle damage, flying in boost too long, or getting in slow dogfights with low airflow (all are bad idea in Focke-Wulf).

 

I haven't flown the D9 or 110s much.

In general with water and oil radiators:

-Set oil radiator on the ground to optimal eg 60% for Russian and just leave it alone. Oil rad doesn't drag that much.

-Set water radiator open as wide as possible, to build up some temperature buffer. Then when you need the extra speed you can close it and have longer before overheat.

Edited by Dan_Taipan
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I generally run full rads on takeoff and climb, then drop it down to 20-30% most other times, sealing it up all the way when I need extra speed. It doesn't have a huge effect on top speed, but it is noticeable. However, I also don't actually know what the spec max temperature is, so I might be flying a bit too conservatively.

 

The D-9 is very different. You don't get direct control of the rads, rather you set the target temperature for the thermostat. What this means is that you're telling the automatic system what its target temperature should be. It pretty much never lets you overheat, even at 0%, but there's still a reason to run it at higher settings. If you have it set to maximum, it will keep the coolant at a lower temperature. If you end up in trouble or need a little extra speed, pushing the target temp up ("close rads") will have the automatic system seal up the rads and keep them further closed until they need to open up more to prevent overheating.

 

Dunno about the 110s.

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Thanks guys for sharing your experience, I thought no one will ever reply. 😁 It appears that the focke A models are more forgiving than i expected. I must test if I can use fully closed shutters on a A8 on the deck with emergency booster on for full 10 min. I think it can reach 600kph straight but even with only 50% open shutters only ~550-560 kph. About the bf110 I am a bit cautious, but it is not a fast plane to start with anyways.

Edited by ZeroCrack01
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EDIT: A8 has no MW50 injection system, but a additional supercharger gear which does increase max 1.42 ATA to 1.65 ATA manifold pressure. My experience still apply to my report, even though I do not know why a higher 1.65 ATA keeps the engine cooler than lower 1.42 ATA (max 10 min runtime with 1.65 ATA vs 3 min with 1.42 ATA).

ORIGINAL POST: FW190 A8 with cowling flaps fully closed with MW50 on the deck 580kph and it seems to cause no issues (after all mw50 should cool the cylinder heads), open to pos2 (or 40%) after that for safety. However, i cant say that about the same scenario but with combat power. Engine gets damaged after some time without indication (oil temp gauge cannot substitute actual cylinder head temp). Other than with MW50 use, i recommend at least cowling flaps in nr.1 pos (or 20%) when using combat power on high speed (diving) but it seems not sufficient for full combat power duration (30 min). If climbing or cruising (low speed) in combat power i recommend at least pos nr.2 (or 40%). I see absolutely no reason using emergency power without MW50 (no extra power and cooling, plus only a limit of 1 min). Even though MW50 limit is 10min for one run: you have MW50 fuel for around 30 min if i am not mistaken + MW50 injection pressure replenishes after time for re-use. Fully open for take off and landing as usual.

Conclusion: if you leave cowling flaps on pos 2 (or 40%) you should be on the save side for most situations and there is no harm in using fully open cowling flaps in take off, landing and taxing activities.

Edited by ZeroCrack01
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33 minutes ago, ZeroCrack01 said:

you have MW50 fuel for around 30 min if i am not mistaken

The A8 had no Methanol Water Injection. You only limited by timer and fuel.

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46 minutes ago, L3Pl4K said:

The A8 had no Methanol Water Injection. You only limited by timer and fuel.

Okay, you are right, I think the 10 min limit vs 3 min made me think that. It is just an addtional supercharger gear with increased ATA pressure according to the description. But I do not understand why max throttle (1.42 ATA) has a 3 min limit, according to ingame reference notes. But with booster on (1.65 ATA) there is a 10 min limit. More manifold pressure for more power without water injection as coolant, but still less heat? 🤪 How? I hope somebody can give me some insight, because I really find it intriguing.

At least it makes sense now why i could not find a MW50 pressure gauge 😆

Edited by ZeroCrack01
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6 hours ago, ZeroCrack01 said:

Okay, you are right, I think the 10 min limit vs 3 min made me think that. It is just an addtional supercharger gear with increased ATA pressure according to the description. But I do not understand why max throttle (1.42 ATA) has a 3 min limit, according to ingame reference notes. But with booster on (1.65 ATA) there is a 10 min limit. More manifold pressure for more power without water injection as coolant, but still less heat? 🤪 How? I hope somebody can give me some insight, because I really find it intriguing.

At least it makes sense now why i could not find a MW50 pressure gauge 😆

 

If it's the same as the A-5, it's the C3 fuel injection system.

With that engaged, the increase in pressure also has a time limit increase to a 10 minute limit. I presume the extra cooling from fuel injection may be why you can run for longer. This is what's used when pushing the boost keybind.

 

For the A-5 though it's only on certain models - represented in IL-2 when you select the U17 strike modification that version of the A-5 comes with the C3 fuel injection boost.

 

Also it only works with automatic propeller on, altitude < 1000m, and full throttle apparently.

 

The design decisions that went into the FW 190 series are amazing for their time. If you have bit of time, watch or listen to Greg's Airplane videos on the FW 190:

 

Edited by Dan_Taipan
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5 hours ago, Dan_Taipan said:

 

If it's the same as the A-5, it's the C3 fuel injection system.

With that engaged, the increase in pressure also has a time limit increase to a 10 minute limit. I presume the extra cooling from fuel injection may be why you can run for longer. This is what's used when pushing the boost keybind.

 

For the A-5 though it's only on certain models - represented in IL-2 when you select the U17 strike modification that version of the A-5 comes with the C3 fuel injection boost.

 

Also it only works with automatic propeller on, altitude < 1000m, and full throttle apparently.

 

The design decisions that went into the FW 190 series are amazing for their time. If you have bit of time, watch or listen to Greg's Airplane videos on the FW 190:

 

Ah I know gregs vids, they are amazing 🙂

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9 hours ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

D-9 thermostat o% = automatic.

As far I understand it is from 0-100% Automatic. As the name suggests, you just configure the thermostat target temperature. 0% is the highest nominal temperature. So the cowling flaps open on higher temperatures. But I keep as high as possible in cruise but do 0% when in combat. In that case I start with a cooler engine and have more time before the flaps open and cause drag in an emergency situation where I don't want that.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 12/4/2018 at 5:29 AM, CrazyGman said:

Boost works for 10 minutes but 2 things: 1st you need to use the button for boost to activate it and it works by injecting extra fuel (EDIT: Extra air from the supercharger) into the engine and is limited by your fuel reserves (uses a lot more fuel). 2nd it only works at certain altitudes at the low end of the A8 supercharger range for gear 1 and gear 2. Since the 190 changes supercharger gears automatically with altitude without pilot input this means that even with the boast button activated the system only works around 1k and lower for gear 1 (ballpark) and then again around 3k to 4.5k for gear 2 (again ballpark) best way to check is that your manifold pressure is above the 1.42 ata that you get on regular full emergancy power (no boost). With the boost activated at the right altitude range the A8 will give signifiant extra power (1.5-1.7 ata) for around 10 minutes before engine damage. If not at the right altitude the boost will activate but do nothing and only give around 3 minutes of regular emergancy power (1.42ata) before engine damage.

For level flight and combat, cowls can be kept around 50% Using this with the boost makes you the current fastest plane on the deck (not including K4) for 10 minutes (in a straight line not climbing) you will outrun all current allied planes in a level deck race in default fighter configuuration. For sustained climb cowls need to be around 80% open on a normal warm map. (Might be able to play around with this). 

Important to note: by default the A8 carries over 100 liters more fuel then the A3 and A5 reducing this load to what you would have in the A3 and A5 greatly improves handeling. 

 

 

 

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  • 4 months later...
E69_VonPepofen

              Just to add some light, C3 is 93 octanes while normal german fuel is 87 octanes. Thus C3 allows the use of higher manifold pressures, but the engine only stads it for a while (10 min). This higher pressure can only be used if the supercharger can provide it. According to the plane specifications, supercharger pressure coud reach 1,58 ata at low heights (low gear), but I have not been able to reach that pressure. On the other side, 1,65ata can be reached on second gear above 2800 m whis is reachable. There seems to be some pressure limit on 1st gear which seems to be a bug.

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6FG_Big_Al
3 hours ago, E69_VonPepofen said:

              Just to add some light, C3 is 93 octanes while normal german fuel is 87 octanes. Thus C3 allows the use of higher manifold pressures, but the engine only stads it for a while (10 min). This higher pressure can only be used if the supercharger can provide it. According to the plane specifications, supercharger pressure coud reach 1,58 ata at low heights (low gear), but I have not been able to reach that pressure. On the other side, 1,65ata can be reached on second gear above 2800 m whis is reachable. There seems to be some pressure limit on 1st gear which seems to be a bug.

As far as I understand it you only reach 1,58 ATA with activated boost in the 1st gear. As soon as you reach an altitude above 2700 m/ switch to the second gear you reach 1,65 ATA with activated boost.

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E69_VonPepofen

The problem is that you can only get 1,58 ata at sea level in summer time and below 600 m in winter time. That seems a too low limit for the supercharger in 1st gear!

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