How can we get more people interested?

[Lusekofte]

3 hours ago, CanadaOne said:

is weak.

The only thing weak about it is the general knowledge of ME ?

 

SP is to me in general lifeless, it might be my expectation and lack of search for a good career that does it. 
I find waypoints manouvering with ai to be close to suicidal, and you get reminded about your flying with ai. 
some scripted campaigns are very good. 
Ai is best when in coop, with no ai mates things are better

4 minutes ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Co-op mode that can actually be used. 

We fly with patrick wilson mission generator in coop. It works

[DBFlyguy]

3 hours ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

 

 

On a more serious note the younger generation is not interested in flight sims. They get easier and faster satisfaction with their phones or consoles. No need to learn complicated systems or tactics, no big investment in hardware etc. Younger generation has no connection to WW2 as many have not even met the grandparents like many of the older simheads have.

 

 

 

Disagree fully here.  Every generation has folks interested in aviation which spills into some choosing to playing flight sims, just like some choose to build model airplanes, fly RC airplanes or take the leap into becoming RL pilots.  Also, there are several in younger generations that are highly interested in WW2 history and quite a few are finding ways to express that passion.  For example this channel run by folks pretty young and is a passion project and have over 200,000 people subscribed:

 

The folks are out there. I've seen folks listing all these new features IL-2 GB needs to be more noticeable.  It could have all the shiny new features in the world, but if no one knows you exist it doesn't matter what features a sim has.

 

2 hours ago, SouthernCross said:

EX war thunder player here.

I played WT with M+KB for like 4-5 years then got tired of MP selfishness. And the first realistic sim I got into is DCS.

I tried with gamepad first, then I bought a cheap stick to see if I am really into flight sim.

Few years later, I realize DCS really can't scratch my WW2 itch. Luckily, IL2 just having a sale and I took the plunge.

I am having a blast in IL2's career, it really is amazing to me.

 

Curious on how did you hear about IL-2? Definitely could provide some insight

[unlikely_spider]

I think MSFS 2020 will bring a new group of people to flight simming. It's getting a lot of press, and is one of those generation-defining events. Just yesterday I was at Micro Center (computer store) and I saw a young guy picking up a hotas at the web orders counter. I looked at him and said "Microsoft Flight Sim?" And he smiled and said yeah. (I think he smiled - we both were wearing masks)

Edited August 16, 2020 by unlikely_spider

[jollyjack]

I guess there's two kinds of IL2 clients.

 

Most here are into the details of each plane's particularities it seems. Specialists at a few types. (MP fans?)

I like to tryout different planes (SP), and rarely get into the details and mostly use general settings, besides having fun with the editor like "hey, that finally works".

 

The main thing is how to get people interested in IL2, and there are not many willing to dive deep into the how to fly a plane with only a mouse and keyboard at hand as they usually have.

I knew 1946 and had fun with that years ago, and only accidentally saw the 'new' IL2, and my son in law had the old MS Flight simulator running.

 

Was looking around on youtube for info on some WW2 planes.

Surprise: there was IL2 and got hooked by the graphics, alas accidentally started with steam, bought it again later direct.

 

Soon after (steam) buying BoS and BoM i found that my old Logitech joystick was useless, as was my pc.

Mike Sokol gave me advice on overclocking and then got me interested in getting a more competent PC, BTW, thank you Mike.

 

==

 

Now how to market a complex game like this? Most kids seem only interested in the quick and dirty shooters, and not much in historical stuff,

let alone to 'learn' to fly first and the learning curve for this game.

 

Serious (wartime) historians don't like games but books.

A good campaign in IL2 is a good thing to keep one interested in what's around the corner for the next chapter, it's almost like like reading an interactive book.

 

One thing that IL2 could do to improve commercial success IMO is maybe some additional train stuff; there's a market there. It seems half done.

The programming part with the trains in IL2 is far better than with most 'real' train sim games.

Alas the Bodenplatte trains as backbone of the Nazi industry are not too well represented so far IMO. (i know the statement 'it's a flight sim').

TC opens a new aspect, but indeed not finished yet. BTW it's fun chasing German trains with a Sherman tank.

 

Graphics and maps: As single player i feel the heavy down pressure that modders are not allowed to touch the maps as a real pity and shame.

So much could be improved by 3rd parties there.

 

Map mods: a dance hall where you can only join a polka with blocks of concrete as dancing shoes ....

Idea?: Let the MP players have their own general maps separately from the SP crowd?

 

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by jollyjack

[SouthernCross]

5 minutes ago, DBFlyguy said:

Curious on how did you hear about IL-2? Definitely could provide some insight

From Youtuber MagZ and posts about IL2 in hoggit (DCS community in reddit) from time to time.

[Avimimus]

5 hours ago, danielprates said:

 

I remember it also came with a 1000 pages (or so) text file full of clippings regarding ww2 aviation info, on an imense variety of topics. 

 

Those were the days!

 

I remember seeing the Go-229 on the cover for the first time... and now more than a quarter century later - I'm still interested. But I'd likely have just made a model of the Go-229 and never developed a broader interest if the game hadn't asked me to imagine flying in a P-51B with its comparably paltry armament and speed... it took a while but that game eventually led me to enjoy being at a disadvantage.

 

I even flew the Mig-3 for the first time in a modded version and was shocked that I enjoyed flying it! It meant I was looking forward to it for Il-2...

Edited August 16, 2020 by Avimimus

[[CPT]milopugdog]

I think that the size of this player base is limited mostly by a few factors; most of which are out of the dev's control. @jollyjack has a good post too, I'm just giving my own take on it.

 

1: learning curve

This is kinda an obvious one. You start the game, you're bad at the game. You have to get used to the controls, settings, and different models.

Some people usually find a niche, or favorite activity to do. For example, I'll gladly fly a P-51 or He-111, but what I really want to do is get into a T-34 1943 or attack tanks in the U-2VS.

 

2: money

This one is kind of obvious as well. This game costs money to get into; First you need the game (which it goes on sale enough that it's probably the cheapest thing here if you're patient), then you need the flight sim gear-- which you can scramble to find someone selling old gear that hopefully works, get some brand new gear from VKB or Virpil through some miracle, or you can get a Logitech 3D Pro. Which let's face it, the 3D pro is no way to play any flight game.

 

3: time

I won't say that "It's the damn kids these days with their short attention spans and need for flashy colors" because most of the folks I end up flying with are either their mid-teens to mid-20s.

It's simply that the time you have to dedicate to even have a sortie when you have already gotten used to the game is silly to most folks. Hell, I don't even get to play this game as much as I want since I don't always have an hour or two to drop into doing some funny business online.

 

And why should we judge if someone would rather drop into a 30 minute maximum game of War Thunder or Apex when we usually take that long just flying to the target?

 

4: visibility

If you ask me, IL-2 now has more visibility than it every did when it was just Stalingrad. The game has reached a peak in it's maturity where we're only going up. Western planes, amazing VR, tanks, a career spanning almost the whole war, and tons of planes to choose from! No longer do people look at this game as that IL-2 with the broken Yak flaps, disappointing career with unlocks, and completely borked Fw-190 model. Or the game that killed Rise of Flight (I think some people still act like that?).

 

The only way we can get the game more interest is to do exactly as we have been, make a genuinely good flight sim that has the love of its developers and player community poured into it. You can't build an empire in a day.

[Bearcat]

On 8/15/2020 at 6:46 AM, 6FG_ST0N3DLAMA said:

how can this game have so little player base 
IL2 DOMINATES the competition !!!!

 

On 8/15/2020 at 7:11 AM, [DBS]Browning said:

It's true that IL2GB had noting like the multiplayer player numbers that 1946 had.

Partly this is because there is some competition now from several other games and sims with plane combat.

Partly it is because IL2GB is a little less beginner friendly online than 1946.

There may be issues about the way the DLC works as well.

 

The best thing you can do is just to tell people about the game and how great it is.

 

This ^^^^ I think is the main answer..  that and times and people have changed. Gaming has changed. There will never be another WWII sim with the level of popularity, diversity of plane set and map set .. as IL246 .. and by that i mean everything from 2001 with the original IL2 through FB .. Pe2 and up to 1946. That is a 5 year stretch .. where all the stars aligned... If you factor in the whole modding community it just becomes GINORMOUS.   In 2001 .. which let's face it guys .. was  two decades ago.. there are guys on these boards who were ten or younger ... when IL2 first came out.. the gaming industry and flight sims in particular were nothing like today. In 2001 "the competition" for WWII simming was what ..? CFS1&2 and the two online MM platforms Warbirds and Aces High .. that you had to pay to play... ?  You had some other sims out .. but they were minor players when compared to those sims ... and in that mix IL2 came along and blew everything out of the water.. it just took a little while to catch on.. but I guarantee you there were not too many people who went and left IL2 to go somewhere else and did not wind up back, especially after CFS3 was released. In fact it was usually the other way around..  folks would come from other sims beating their chests and whatnot..  and after a week or two on HL .. they were hooked.. You have to factor in Hyperlobby too.. I think if IL2 had stayed on the UBI servers it would not have grown the way it did.. Today the competition is Warbirds.. DCS .. and yeah Cliffs as well.. but basically that is it.. and the cost of all of this scares off a lot of people. I remember a lot of folks I tried to turn on to sims that did not want to drop for ANY joystick .. let lone one over $40 .. and a Saitek X-45 at $80 fugheddabouddit.. I spent literally hundreds trying to get folks into this.. with some even buying them entry level sticks.. when I worked part time at Best Buy from 2003 to 2005..  I even set the sim up on a PC so I could play the tracks.. and I hooked quite a few that way..  I think this sim is still the greatest bang for your buck in 2020  as far as a WWII flight sim goes.. especially if you can catch a sale for the earlier stuff.. and pay top dollar or close to it for the later stuff.. You can't beat it in terms of what you get and what you spend. Getting Stalingrad, Moscow and Kuban .. for the price that 1CGS offers when they go on sale is priceless.. 

 

As has been said so many times ... this is a niche.. and this is why I try to support every part of it when I can.. I have all the major players on my PC and I have not been able to fly much in years .. but I love the genre.. For me it is a fascinating thing to be able to hop in the virtual cockpit of the planes I used to make models of as a kid.. and many others..  It is a great thing to be able to converse with people I have known for almost 20 years .. some I have met in person or on the phone .. and then there are the many .. who are no longer with us..  This thing we do is not for everybody and I don't care how much people whine and complain.. or how well a given developer will do .. someone will always come out with a complaint about something..  when what we really should do is be glad we even have what we have and enjoy it while we have it.. I take each sim on it's own merits and warts .. and I look at each sim a s a segment of a different multiverse if you will.. so you adapt to the physics and the graphics .. and the sound .. and dive in.. Heck I still fiddle with IL246..

[jojy47jojyrocks]

Improving on the Single player experience would be a VERY good start. The Career mode needs more improvement like variety of missions for example....

 

Better interface to edit waypoints pre-mission to PLAN for a good strike etc....and how our target is aligned or represented ( especially on Destruction on Supply depots). Also compass on our briefing map would be good as well.

 

Not everyone has super seamless internet connection and is competition oriented.

Edited August 17, 2020 by jojy47jojyrocks

[CountZero]

Also what i belive is working for MP atleast is when they have mostly war thunder youtubers having fun videos in this game ( bismark, bo time and so on ). Pair that with some 75% sales and that should get some WT guys to buy in atleast one DLC and try it, but again what lack is action in fun servers online, or more varaity offline.

If they could have thouse WT youtubers to run some events where some of their fans would join in with them that would atleast incress interaction and get some of their WT viewers to buy in.

[ATAG_SKUD]

I think there have been a lot of suggestions here about dumbing down the game. BoX is not a sim. Simulators are supposed to prepare you for the real thing. The flight model and operation are just a step or two above WT.  It isn't that hard to jump in and fly once you learn a couple of basic engine management principles that a quick search on this forum will get you. To me it's easier than Overwatch. My daughter gave up trying to teach me that but I taught her how to land a Ju 88 in 10 minutes. If complexity is holding sims back how is it FS2020 is so big? How long does it take to become proficient in a multi engine with that sim? And DCS is far more complex than BoX and has zero documentation. They seem to have a significant player base - despite a schizophrenic purpose for being. And what kind of business strategy is it to go head to head with major studio like Gaijin WT?

 

I'm not knocking SP types but for me, and I only speak for myself, SP is a drag. I cannot get enthused about seal clubbing lame AI and receiving fake medals.

 

MP is kneecapped by this game. Visibility (spotting) is horrid, the server starts running like a wheezing lawnmower if more than 30 players are on or have AI doing anything more than sitting there waiting for you to brave the flak storm and club them. I switched to bombers because I can't see fighters in MP I have seen tracers coming out of bare sky and no aircraft visible firing them (the Romulan Cloaking Device bug). Because of the poor LOD high alt bombing is usually unusable when targets only render after you've passed the drop point.

If you want more players fix the netcode so we can have 150 MP players and lots of AI on a server and fix the visibility issues.

skud

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by ATAG_SKUD

[Eisenfaustus]

8 minutes ago, ATAG_SKUD said:

And DCS is far more complex than BoX and has zero documentation.

When I tested the Kurfürst for free a few months ago it had excellent tutorials and a great manual. 
Don‘t know if this is true for all their products though. 

[ATAG_SKUD]

25 minutes ago, Eisenfaustus said:

When I tested the Kurfürst for free a few months ago it had excellent tutorials and a great manual. 
Don‘t know if this is true for all their products though. 

I got them as a pre-order/beta IIRC. That's good to know.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

16 hours ago, jollyjack said:

One thing that IL2 could do to improve commercial success IMO is maybe some additional train stuff; there's a market there. It seems half done.

The programming part with the trains in IL2 is far better than with most 'real' train sim games.

You're joking, right?

 

The train programming is extremely basic. I had a quick mission a while ago, where at the end of its programmed run the train I was trying to attack just flipped around and went the opposite direction *without any slowing down*. From full speed westwards to full speed east in a split of a second. ?

 

15 hours ago, [CPT]milopugdog said:

Which let's face it, the 3D pro is no way to play any flight game.

I upgraded from a 3D pro to a T16000 + throttle only this week. And while I do certainly notice some difference, I think the 3D pro is a very fine joystick that does what it's designed to do. I used the 3D pro for more than 10 years, and I've never felt it was a limitation on my abilities as a combat pilot in any way.

 

8 hours ago, Bearcat said:

This thing we do is not for everybody and I don't care how much people whine and complain.. or how well a given developer will do .. someone will always come out with a complaint about something..  when what we really should do is be glad we even have what we have and enjoy it while we have it..

I cannot emphasise too much how it makes me cringe whenever one of those copy-paste posts appears: "[fill in any real or imaginary issue] is completely broken! You Dev's never listen to us! If you do not fix it *right away* I will not play IL2 anymore or buy Normandy! You're gonna lose your entire player base because everyone agrees with me so no-one will play IL2 anymore or buy Normandy!"

 

Sure, there's bugs in IL2. But how hard is it to simply explain your problem, gather some in-game data about where/when/how it occurs and what your graphics/game settings are, and at least do some basic research into how it should behave in real life? Y'know, a standard bug report. Of the type that actually has at least *some* data the Devs can use to pinpoint and fix the problem. And all that preferably without thinly-veiled threats/blackmail about not buying Normandy or shrinking player bases. ?

 

What do they expect? That the Devs are some kind of magicians that are able to give everyone their own customised experience with how that person thinks the game should be, and do it right now? ?

Edited August 17, 2020 by AEthelraedUnraed

[TShark]

I was looking at my 2001 boxed copy of IL-2 Sturmovik from Ubisoft.  Inside the box is the optical disk, an 88 page manual, and a fold out, color, reference card with the default keybindings on one side and pictures of basic instruments on the other side.  When you look inside the default installation directory for the current IL-2 download there are NO instructions/manual.  I had to search around online to find pdf files with this information.  This makes the learning curve steeper than necessary.

[jollyjack]

22 minutes ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

You're joking, right?

 

The train programming is extremely basic. I had a quick mission a while ago, where at the end of its programmed run the train I was trying to attack just flipped around and went the opposite direction *without any slowing down*. From full speed westwards to full speed east in a split of a second. ?

 

Hunt it with an i16, that can do it also it seems ..

 

Joking ..not really, and the train reversing seems to be a bug, fixed with the next update?

I bought TrainSimWorld 2020 a while back, nice graphics, but it gets far more boring. Loading zombie passengers at each obliged stop for a minute, run a red light; game over.

The tombraiderish hidden secrets and gems to gain points, and puzzling how to get a train rolling.

 

Nope IL2, basic or not, is more fun, although not player controlled. Buggy and funny too, here two trains head on fighting, steam blowing from their pores and all:

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by jollyjack

[[DBS]TH0R]

On 8/15/2020 at 12:46 PM, 6FG_ST0N3DLAMA said:

how can this game have so little player base 
IL2 DOMINATES the competition !!!!

 

Replace "dominate" with a "most complete package".

 

This simply means key aspects of attracting new players haven't been met yet. For a flight sim to "dominate" it needs to attract novice, veteran and elite groups - and in MP. It certainly does not cover/attract all groups.

 

MP nowadays is a key attracting factor for "easy mode" competition like War Thunder. SP doesn't cut it here.

 

Frowning upon (i.e. "elitism") solutions that better suite a realistic modeling of certain aspects of this flight sim, namely most obvious being the super flawed spotting we have, needs to go ASAP.

 

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by [DBS]TH0R

[Bearcat]

3 hours ago, ATAG_SKUD said:

I think there have been a lot of suggestions here about dumbing down the game. BoX is not a sim. Simulators are supposed to prepare you for the real thing. The flight model and operation are just a step or two above WT.  It isn't that hard to jump in and fly once you learn a couple of basic engine management principles that a quick search on this forum will get you. To me it's easier than Overwatch. My daughter gave up trying to teach me that but I taught her how to land a Ju 88 in 10 minutes. If complexity is holding sims back how is it FS2020 is so big? How long does it take to become proficient in a multi engine with that sim? And DCS is far more complex than BoX and has zero documentation. They seem to have a significant player base - despite a schizophrenic purpose for being. And what kind of business strategy is it to go head to head with major studio like Gaijin WT?

 

I'm not knocking SP types but for me, and I only speak for myself, SP is a drag. I cannot get enthused about seal clubbing lame AI and receiving fake medals.

 

MP is kneecapped by this game. Visibility (spotting) is horrid, the server starts running like a wheezing lawnmower if more than 30 players are on or have AI doing anything more than sitting there waiting for you to brave the flak storm and club them. I switched to bombers because I can't see fighters in MP I have seen tracers coming out of bare sky and no aircraft visible firing them (the Romulan Cloaking Device bug). Because of the poor LOD high alt bombing is usually unusable when targets only render after you've passed the drop point.

If you want more players fix the netcode so we can have 150 MP players and lots of AI on a server and fix the visibility issues.

skud

 

 

 

I dunno.. I disagree about BoX not being a sim.. Back in the day .. the original IL2 flyers thought that IL2 was the only real sim on the market.. everything else was a game and Great Battles is better in my opinion than the original.. I know the bar has been raised considerably but BoS has a lot for me that adds to the immersion .. and for me that is a large part of what makes a sim.. the immersion factor.  I kind of went off on a tangent in my previous post and didn't really address the OP.. but I agree with you about improving the MP experience but remember back in the day .. as hot as HL was .. there were also many SP fliers that never hit the boards.. never came to HL.. and never flew MP at all.. I think that if this sim could get something like Hyperlobby .. as far as ease of use and functionality it would go a long way .. There were nights I came on HL and did not fly.. but the way it was structured the social aspect of this thing we do became a component itself in the growth of the sim..  I have not been online in this sim in years so I have no idea how it is as far as the actual online flying but if things are as you say .. yeah ... that is a problem.. the spotting issues.. and the rendering..  the capacity .. That used to drive me nuts in the original and started me on that hardware upgrade merry go round.. In coops often servers are dependent on the rig of the host right? So that will always be an issue to a degree..  as long as there are folks with varying rigs.. 

[KG_S_Kalle_Kalutz82]

a)

Fixing issues about the graphical render thing since update 4.006

 

b)

Finally bringing a realistic fuel tank model in each game, along with the damage model for that, some people are waiting that since several years now.

If your only fuel tank is hit, you can not select tanks, therefore you are doomed on a long range mission in a bomber.

 

c)

Maybe a hyperlobby kind of thing?

 

d)

Polishing up the dynamic career?

I am mostly a MP guy, but I also fly SP when I am without my mates.

Currently ma Bf109 E7 Iron Man Career sees every 2nd mission an attack on some railroad station.

 

e)

Creating events?

How about some "Offensive" MP experience?

They could host a server and from time to time let there some dynamic campaign ongoing with special "red flight" reenacters, maybe some of the dev's themself.

Something like that, but maybe the least important points here.

 

f)

Recon Missions & Air Marshal function?

Some of us would fly for example, a HS 126, or buy it seperatly for that matter, in order to improve recon on servers and provide it "live" to an ongoing server campaign.

 

g)

The Publisher does not make good or necessary advertisements ( very low cost cinematic youtube video creation?) for their IL-2 product and as others stated here: they even not updated their own page...

[jollyjack]

Reading through all this: A simple (free?) entry level version, even if running on Android tablets and Ipads. Once hooked, you'll have more buyers for the real thing.

 

[Gambit21]

On 8/16/2020 at 10:53 AM, [CPT]Crunch said:

How about a publicly accessible mission builder...

 

There’s a publicly available mission editor - and quite a good one at that.

[J2_Bidu]

6 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

There’s a publicly available mission editor - and quite a good one at that.

 

Definition of 'good' is subjective.

The word 'impenetrable' also comes to mind.

[RedKestrel]

9 minutes ago, ShuhDonk said:

I just put together a cockpit (new to flight sims) and looking to see what flight sim titles are out there.. I am interested in this game but curious if there is an active multi player community?  Also how is the game in single player?  And finally how do you know what to buy, you look on steam and there are like 20 different things.. what version/versions should a newb be purchasing first?  Ohh also, how is the multi monitor support?  Nvidia surround work properly in the game? (no stretching/distortion etc)?

There is active multiplayer. Depending on where you are there are several servers well populated especially during peak hours. Wings of Liberty (Russsia), Finnish Virtual Pilots (finland), and Combat Box (north america). Combat Box is specialized to the later types so if you are in NA and want to fly later war western types, you should have BoBP for this one. In online mode, you can fly any plane you own from a module but you can also fly on any map that is available, even one who's module you haven't bought. 

Multiplayer is good (despite all the griping you will see lol) and there are a lot of talented admins and mission designers constantly working on cool new stuff. It can be very deadly for a new player though, be prepared to get stomped on the regular. If you can get past the learning curve, and find people to fly with, its a great experience. Make sure you can start your aircraft, taxi, and take off before venturing online, most online servers start you on the ground with engine off.

Single player can vary. The AI is being improved but is still a weak spot in the sim TBH, in terms of challenging dogfighting. The scripted campaigns are usually well-reviewed and created by talented mission designers from the developers or from the community. Career mode is interesting but since it is auto-gen it can get a little repetitive for some people. But when I played more SP I enjoyed it and career mode. I'm pretty well MP only these days.

If you are buying via Steam you HAVE to buy Battle of Stalingrad before anything else. If you buy directly from the webstore, you can buy any module you want to start off.  

If you are into early war eastern front aircraft, Battle of Stalingrad or Battle of Moscow is a good starter module. For mid-war eastern front, with a smattering of western types as Lend-Lease, buy Battle of Kuban. For late war western front stuff, buy Battle of Bodenplatte. Battle of Normandy is in pre-order with only the P-47D-22 available at the moment, so it is not a good investment for a beginner. If however, you are buying BoBP and like what you see, pre-order Battle of Normandy to get access to the razorback jug.

 

When you buy the game you get all the game files installed, so when you buy a new module it just 'unlocks' the content on your PC. its quite a large initial download, after that the patches are not insanely huge.

I recommend buying the module with the aircraft or time period that speaks to you most, then pick up other modules as you want them (or when they go on sale, a pretty frequent occurrence). If you are interested at all in the collector planes included with the Premium module, buy the premium version. It is much cheaper to buy the premium than the standalone aircraft that are included with it, even if you only end up flying one.

I'm not sure about multimonitor support, I think it is there but I have never used it so I can't say how well it works. I think it supports up to 2 monitors. 

 

[Gambit21]

5 hours ago, J2_Bidu said:

 

Definition of 'good' is subjective.

 

Well you’d have to learn it in order to render an opinion.

 

It might not be user-friendly at first,  but it’s an EXCELLENT editor.

 

Everything I used to wish that I could do in the 46 editor I can do (and much more) in this one.

 

5 hours ago, J2_Bidu said:

The word 'impenetrable' also comes to mind.

 

Yet content is being produced.

There’s a steep learning curve, but it flattens out nicely after a bit.

[J2_Bidu]

7 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

There’s a steep learning curve, but it flattens out nicely after a bit.

 

Yes, I have tried a bit. It is demanding. Sure, some people manage to do great things with it. Takes more time than I currently have, unfortunately.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

5 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

Well you’d have to learn it in order to render an opinion.

 

It might not be user-friendly at first,  but it’s an EXCELLENT editor.

 

Everything I used to wish that I could do in the 46 editor I can do (and much more) in this one.

A couple of days ago I actually pondered a bit whether the editor is Turing-complete.

 

Pretty sure it is.

Edited August 19, 2020 by AEthelraedUnraed

[ShuhDonk]

16 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

There is active multiplayer. Depending on where you are there are several servers well populated especially during peak hours. Wings of Liberty (Russsia), Finnish Virtual Pilots (finland), and Combat Box (north america). Combat Box is specialized to the later types so if you are in NA and want to fly later war western types, you should have BoBP for this one. In online mode, you can fly any plane you own from a module but you can also fly on any map that is available, even one who's module you haven't bought. 

Multiplayer is good (despite all the griping you will see lol) and there are a lot of talented admins and mission designers constantly working on cool new stuff. It can be very deadly for a new player though, be prepared to get stomped on the regular. If you can get past the learning curve, and find people to fly with, its a great experience. Make sure you can start your aircraft, taxi, and take off before venturing online, most online servers start you on the ground with engine off.

Single player can vary. The AI is being improved but is still a weak spot in the sim TBH, in terms of challenging dogfighting. The scripted campaigns are usually well-reviewed and created by talented mission designers from the developers or from the community. Career mode is interesting but since it is auto-gen it can get a little repetitive for some people. But when I played more SP I enjoyed it and career mode. I'm pretty well MP only these days.

If you are buying via Steam you HAVE to buy Battle of Stalingrad before anything else. If you buy directly from the webstore, you can buy any module you want to start off.  

If you are into early war eastern front aircraft, Battle of Stalingrad or Battle of Moscow is a good starter module. For mid-war eastern front, with a smattering of western types as Lend-Lease, buy Battle of Kuban. For late war western front stuff, buy Battle of Bodenplatte. Battle of Normandy is in pre-order with only the P-47D-22 available at the moment, so it is not a good investment for a beginner. If however, you are buying BoBP and like what you see, pre-order Battle of Normandy to get access to the razorback jug.

 

When you buy the game you get all the game files installed, so when you buy a new module it just 'unlocks' the content on your PC. its quite a large initial download, after that the patches are not insanely huge.

I recommend buying the module with the aircraft or time period that speaks to you most, then pick up other modules as you want them (or when they go on sale, a pretty frequent occurrence). If you are interested at all in the collector planes included with the Premium module, buy the premium version. It is much cheaper to buy the premium than the standalone aircraft that are included with it, even if you only end up flying one.

I'm not sure about multimonitor support, I think it is there but I have never used it so I can't say how well it works. I think it supports up to 2 monitors.

 

Thank you for the detailed reply and info.  Looks like I should purchase from this website directly instead of steam then if I decide to try it out

[Eisenfaustus]

I think their recent sale has good potential - if it was to reach players not yet involved. 
 

Hope it does!

[Lusekofte]

Biggest problem for any progression on gameplay and increasing playerbase is the fighter focused biggest gun and fasted speed attitude. It rules out people with a more mission oriented mindset. 
It also pick away people wanting to do fighters , but struggle with spotting, expirience. It leaves the good ones and teams to stick with it. 
People are so focused on speed that they forget that it is relative to opponents. It is no going back in time, leaving effectivly bombers out of the game play. 
If one cannot keep the playerbase it is no good enough playerbase, the new ones hardly replace those leaving. 
Out of my own experience, I can say that once you get tired about it, or loose interest, it is hard to get it back. I can not seem to want to fly anymore

Edited August 20, 2020 by 216th_LuseKofte

[MasserME262]

many commented things that are good advice to retain people, not to get more people interested.

 

I guess the answer is: more and better marketing.

[sniperton]

2 hours ago, ME-BFMasserME262 said:

many commented things that are good advice to retain people, not to get more people interested.

 

I guess the answer is: more and better marketing.

Fine, but what exactly would you use to convince people that Il-2 can offer them more than, say, Sheep Hunter or Farming Simulator?

[DBFlyguy]

2 hours ago, ME-BFMasserME262 said:

 

 

I guess the answer is: more and better marketing.

 

Exactly. 

 

6 minutes ago, sniperton said:

Fine, but what exactly would you use to convince people that Il-2 can offer them more than, say, Sheep Hunter or Farming Simulator?

 

Updating the IL-2 website to actually include current offerings would be a start...  The about page still doesn't even mention Bodenplatte, Tank Crew or Flying Circus

https://il2sturmovik.com/about/

 

Reaching out to content creators who are already covering flight sims and give them earlier access to releases (collector planes, campaigns, etc) so they can provide previews prior to release.

 

Up the activity on social media, especially Youtube and Facebook. 

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by DBFlyguy

[MasserME262]

2 hours ago, sniperton said:

Fine, but what exactly would you use to convince people that Il-2 can offer them more than, say, Sheep Hunter or Farming Simulator?

If I were a marketing professional, I would be working on that, instead of writing code for computers, lol.

[HR_Tumu]

I think someone comment before, the idea of deliver a map with a some fighter and bomber for each side totally free can be a really good option.

Many players can test game in a very limited version,  maybe joing to MP and fly some servers.... im sure if they like experience, they need buy more planes.

 

Do something similat at what DCS does... and open some trial periods ( short periods ) with previosuly good publicity  for differents titles .  

 

DD are good way to promote ,  it need be regular and more extensive .

 

 

 

[Kinjin]

On 8/16/2020 at 3:41 PM, R3animate said:

Most of the friends I've tried to get into IL-2 have had two main issues, neither of which has been price related.

 

1. Lack of in-game tutorial/guides on how to take off, land etc. A few well made missions could really help here -- even having a Tutorials or Training section in the menu. Yes, we all love Requiem's tutorials on youtube but not everyone knows they're there, and they also don't help people set up control binds. "Press <boundkey or axis> to pitch up" onscreen prompts, etc is the kind of thing I think would help for new players.

 

2. Confusion around which version to buy. I really think Stalingrad itself should be renamed IL-2: Great Battles on Steam. Might even be time to merge Stalingrad/Moscow packages together from a value perspective, might help eliminate the "feeling like you've only got 1/6th of the experience" impressions people have mentioned.

 

For me, a new player trying to get into the game, the first point here hits the nail on the head.  I have the game, a decent PC and HOTAS but it's a struggle to actually get into and enjoy the game.  A simple overview of how to fly the planes (take off, landing, engine management etc.) and a reference sheet with recommended key binds (i.e. which ones are really useful, and possibly what they do) would probably be a good start.

 

[MiloMorai]

On 8/15/2020 at 4:19 PM, HagarTheHorrible said:

 

Which begs the question, why haven't they done, or prioritized, a Korean War expansion ?

Or a mid '50s Fulda Gap scenario which would have many European airplanes.

[CountZero]

 

do same for GB ? "send" free stuff for promo,

its simulator how can she say its so mutch fun, cccc thats for sure gona scare of hard core simers away, another WT clone it seams

Edited August 23, 2020 by CountZero

[dbzero]

I started flight sims on computers in the late 80's. Bought a Mac SE and bought Falcon. Before that I was into wargaming and had some board games that covered air combat. The 90's was really a golden age for flight sims. The PC was really coming into its own and online was becoming more common. You had Prodigy, AOL and other services that was on on ramp to the online world.

Spectrum Holobyte, Janes Combat Simulations, Microprose were some of the big producers of flight sims, but there were many others. You had Airwarrior on Genie. Me and friends were really big on flight sims.

 

Things began to die down though. Other games came out that competed for attention. Command and Conquer, Mechwarrior, Star Fleet Battles, Age of Kings began to become very popular. Then there was Shogun came out and then the First Medieval Total War. IL2 came out too and I played that, but me and friends were into the other stuff just as much if not more.

 

For quite some times flight sims has been on the back burner for me, but I'm getting back into it. One thing is different for me than the 90's. I'm not going to spend hours and hours learning complex systems. I'm looking for something I can get into without having to put in an MBA effort. That's one reason why I don't play DCS, much.

 

IL2 BOS is something that I can get into fairly quickly.

 

These days you have XBox, PS4 Call of Duty to contend with too. The console gaming industry dwarfs the PC gaming business.

3 hours ago, Kinjin said:

 

For me, a new player trying to get into the game, the first point here hits the nail on the head.  I have the game, a decent PC and HOTAS but it's a struggle to actually get into and enjoy the game.  A simple overview of how to fly the planes (take off, landing, engine management etc.) and a reference sheet with recommended key binds (i.e. which ones are really useful, and possibly what they do) would probably be a good start.

 

Youtube is your friend. Even though I have a flight sim past and an aviation buff and understand the strengths and weaknesses of most of the planes and basic understanding to how to fight them, I still go to youtube and watch videos that describe the various aircraft in detail.

Edited August 23, 2020 by tiger_0988

[Eisenfaustus]

9 minutes ago, tiger_0988 said:

Youtube is your friend. Even though I have a flight sim past and an aviation buff and understand the strengths and weaknesses of most of the planes and basic understanding to how to fight them, I still go to youtube and watch videos that describe the various aircraft in detail.

But having to close the game disappointedly and start searching the web for help isn't the same as a decent in game tutorial - is it? ^^

[dbzero]

50 minutes ago, Eisenfaustus said:

But having to close the game disappointedly and start searching the web for help isn't the same as a decent in game tutorial - is it? ^^

True, still it’s easier than it used to be when flight sims came with thick manuals you had to study in order to play...

 

If you have dual monitors you can play on one screen and have YouTube open on the other or use a tablet, smart phone or smart TV to stream YouTube tutorials and pause the game.

 

Some of the tutorials are about specific aircraft that describe the characteristics and tactics you should use while flying and fighting them. Don’t need to be playing to learn from them.
 

You can also learn things by just watching some of the gameplay videos.

 

At some point though it just comes down to jumping in and playing and dying and learning from the experience. Making recordings and playing them back helps. If you’re really motivated buying Tacview to analyze your flights is useful.

I guess for me I was always very interested in aviation from a young age so I was very motivated to learning this years ago so when I got back into it recently it was easier, but I put in a large amount of grunt work.

 

Even so I’m still having to put in effort. I just started playing the FW190 and even though I’ve have some experience with it in the past when I played it online in the 90s, I still watch videos and analyze my replays and tacview. 
 

I’ve flown 2 missions so far and have yet to get a kill in SP.
 

I wouldn’t last very long online....

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by tiger_0988