So...how is it?

[Dagwoodyt]

If I reduce QM's to 1v1 fighter vs. fighter e.g. Hurri vs 109 the 109 or whatever does several passes at me then heads home. In those instances I am able to keep the AI in close to firing range he goes into a terminal defensive mode and will not counterattack even when handed the opportunity. How that is qualitatively different from past procedures IDK.

[357th_Esco]

I hope they improve the ground textures. I found them to be very low quality especially when on the ground. It did not look like a desert to me. It’s flat, featureless, with not much color variation to make it look realistic. The only colors that come to mind are yellow, brown and blue. The ground is lacking textures you find at a beach. Lacks shadows to show small rollin dunes.The cliffs on the coast looked pretty bland as well compared to the Cliffs of Dover. The water looks awesome just like CLOD. The textures on the wings (rivets,bolts, panel lines) from the cockpit view did not look crisp. The clouds look the same as CLOD, like cotton balls floating in the air.

 

I remember playing Tobruk maps in IL2 1946 with the HSFX mod that had better land details than this.  I hope team fusion continues improving the graphical details of the land. 

 

I was also not able to select any of the Tobruk planes on any of the CLOD quick missions.

 

I had my Graphics settings to the maximum allowed.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Esco

[Dagwoodyt]

26 minutes ago, Esco said:

I hope they improve the ground textures. I found them to be very low quality especially when on the ground. It did not look like a desert to me. It’s flat, featureless, with not much color variation to make it look realistic. The only colors that come to mind are yellow, brown and blue. The ground is lacking textures you find at a beach. Lacks shadows to show small rollin dunes.The cliffs on the coast looked pretty bland as well compared to the Cliffs of Dover. The water looks awesome just like CLOD. The textures on the wings (rivets,bolts, panel lines) from the cockpit view did not look crisp. The clouds look the same as CLOD, like cotton balls floating in the air.

 

I remember playing Tobruk maps in IL2 1946 with the HSFX mod that had better land details than this.  I hope team fusion continues improving the graphical details of the land. 

 

I was also not able to select any of the Tobruk planes on any of the CLOD quick missions.

 

I had my Graphics settings to the maximum allowed.

I was going to start a new topic about this. It is really striking how poorly the landscape is rendered. Deserts are typically awesome when viewed from the air. It is unfortunate that none of that spectacle can be sensed in DWT as the sim is based on a dated engine. I suspect that this will be the lasting impression once the new wears off. I don't deny that the sim is tuned for max FPS, but too much has been sacrificed in the process.

[357th_Esco]

I had high hopes for this game because you can tell Team Fusion has a passion for the flight sim and they were given access to the code. Especially since they are modders, I would assume they strive for the best graphics possible for immersion. I hope the company made them push it out early due to deadlines because that means it’s still a work in progress for Team Fusion. If not, I hope my money spent goes to improving Great Battles.

[Buzzsaw]

Contrary to most popular imagination, the North African coastal desert was quite featureless.

 

Here is an example from the El Alamein area.

 

 

We do plan to do some upgrades to the textures in the near future and go to 4k for the desert, (areas around towns are 4k) as well as add some more detail... but the essential character of this area is fairly monotonous.

 

Pilots were easily lost and had to navigate by headings in the same way they would at sea.

[Deltahawkoz]

Re the map, just by way of comparison, check out the Persian Gulf map in DCS, a game of similar "vintage" to this one.  There may be underlying technical issues with CLOD that dont allow that sort of look, however.  Now back to TF Blitz...good job on 5.0!

[69thSpiritus]

@Esco

Try flying during the dusk/dawn times, there are lots of shadows and features when the sun is low on the horizon. 

[TWC_Ace]

What I miss from Cliffs in IL2 GB is MP stability and possibility to have more than 80 planes online without issues. Also, cockpits and sounds are superb.

[Buzzsaw]

4 minutes ago, meplanes1969 said:

I must say I am complete down beat on this product.

my controls are all over the place,I have an older Logitech attack,which works perfect for all my other games,as the Tobruk engine is older you think it would have no problems with older joysticks.

The flaws that came with the original out of the box cliffs of Dover seem to mainly still exist.

i even get to shot at something at point blank range,I put all my cannon rounds,nothing happens did I miss!! that’s after chasing it for 10 minutes zig zagging around the sky,( even bombers )

how can the AI be so different from great battles? one of them has got it badly wrong!!

the desert scenery looks like a older game textures,they are not too bad but are not on par with great battles,but it’s an older engine so I can understand that.

now for the good,I like the effects ,ground explosions ets,the planes are a work of art,the cockpit textures look the best I have seen.

so I have mixed views on this,maybe when I get a new joystick I will go back to it.

i am sure and hope it will have a lot fixes along the line.

i would buy it just for the wonderful planes

The game has a complex damage model which is focused on realism...  the aircraft, especially bombers need to be accurately hit for damage to occur.

 

You can't just spray the target aircraft, you need to have your guns set up and hit the target at convergence.

 

I would recommend you practice by creating a Single Player mission in the Full Mission Builder with 'Rookie' level opponents... and practice using them as targets.

[vonGraf]

I could shoot 2 Blenheims and damaged 4 others with the small Italian fighter (open canopy, not the biplane) in one of my first flights. 

For me the shooting it was easier than in IL-2 BoX where I'm really not very good. 

[RAAF492SQNOz_Steve]

Just tested the "Water Tower" feature in my trusty F4 and can confirm that when you hit one............. you die 

 

Prior to that, was playing spot the airfield just out of Derna and must agree with someone else who commented on it, the landing strip extents are really hard to see.

 

Do not know if it was that hard in real life but maybe some better delineation would be useful.

 

Lots more to explore still and thanks to the team for the hard work done so far! 

[sunrrrise]

Honestly I like the desert in 5.0. Of course it is different and less impressive than Channel Map (which still looks awesome to me, after almost 10 years...), but on the other hand it is the first time I can "feel" the... heat! This is something I have not exprience anytime and anywhere before Tobruk map.

 

Great job TF team!

[simfan2015]

I always loved Clod and now Tobruk even more so. But as other people have reported... This is not a new game. However I knew about this, like most people here I believe, so if you even considered Tobruk you will probably not be disappointed.

It seems the performance of the game was even further improved in version 5 ... tens of planes (and bombers!) in the air at the same time is no problem whatsever ... even for a lower end PC config.

In fact that is what I loved most about CloD and now the Tobruk expansion... everything feels 100% optimized (4K maxed out) !

The scenery is still OK and no problem to me (even in 2020) ... it is not (yet) as great as that new(er) and detailed DCS 'Channel map' ... but it is still more than pleasing to the eye ... yes, to me even the new Tobruk/desert map is more than OK. 

Also ... the SP missions and quick missions allow changing the default plane to almost any plane/theatre (in custom settings) ... amazing.  

To me il-2 GB is the number 1 WWII Sim, but this has now, to me personally (!), become the number 2 warbird sim...

I rate it even higher (although not really comparable/objective of course) .... than DCS/World War 2 (for which I also have all great, yet few warbirds).

In other words and IMHO ... anyone who can look beyond the still old-fashion Clod/Tobruk UI will discover a true gem ! 

 

Edited August 8, 2020 by simfan2015

[BladeMeister]

My first impressions are here.

First impressions!

It looks and feels FanDamntabulous to me! Runs silky smooth, Martlets to the Top!!! And this on my old AMD Phenom II 965 BE, 16gb DDR3 2100 with a GTX 770 6gb on Win7.

 

S!Blade<><

 

Edited August 8, 2020 by BladeMeister

[dazako]

6 hours ago, meplanes1969 said:

I think this will be a challenge to get kills,when I get a new joystick or hopefully someone maybe have some tips on how to get my old one to work,I just can not get it to fly level when my stick is central my plane just keeps lifting.

yes I have tried the dead zone settings as I say it works perfect in everything else,it’s a shame because I really want to fly

 

No aircraft will fly straight and level without 'trim' controls. You MUST adjust the trim controls any every aircraft during flight. The elevator trim is normally trimmed 'nose-up' (as if you're pulling back on the stick) for take-off, then you must trim forward or 'nose down' if you want level flight with your stick centered. As you go faster or slower you will need to change these trim setting frequently.

 

Simple test to explain it - fly level at a medium power setting, then change your power settings - your plane will nose up with increased power, and nose down with less power. As it goes faster or slower you will also see the 'slip needle' move left or right because the tail is skidding - that is adjusted by 'rudder trim'. The faster you go there are more forces working on the aircraft control surfaces. Without trim controls you would have to push the stick forward or push one rudder pedal all the time. But not all aircraft have rudder and elevator trim, some also have aileron trim that help with roll. Each aircraft is different but the principles of powered flight are the same.

 

Cliffs is more a flight simulator than flying game, which is why it's impossible to use a game controller or keyboard / mouse as people keep asking. 

GL

Daz

Edited August 8, 2020 by dazako

[OBT-Mikmak]

16 minutes ago, meplanes1969 said:

 ( have seen no black smoke or fire yet coming from planes I shot down)

 

Cause you didn't hit the good part of the plane  ?

[dazako]

46 minutes ago, meplanes1969 said:

I am now using elevator trim to nose up and down and it’s just flying and getting used to a new sim,I would say I am beginning to enjoy flying this sim,I have put all my video settings on highest level and smaa ultra with color,makes a difference.

i still think the damage effects are a bit tame ( have seen no black smoke or fire yet coming from planes I shot down)

 

 

Glad you got the idea of trim controls.

 

Engine/ fuel tanks / coolant-radiator hits can produce white / black smoke or fire. Control surfaces on these aircraft are fabric and will burn with incendiary shells. You also need incendiary / armour piercing shells for best results.

Hitting the engine / radiator / fuel tanks from behind the plane requires good aim. Filling the fuselage with holes just makes it more windy for the crew.

Also check your gun convergence to see where those shells are going to meet in front of you. Maybe you're firing too far away ?

 

Enjoy the learning curve

Daz

Edited August 8, 2020 by dazako

[IndianJones]

I finally had a chance to play this afternoon - only for about an hour, and just quick flights. I've had an annoying intermittent launcher crash (ntdll.dll) which has been a bit of a downer...

 

...but overall I'm really impressed. The Wellington is gorgeous inside and out (love the geodesic structure you can see in the wings when the sun hits them at the right angle) and the flight dynamics are excellent. I was amazed by the number and variety of aircraft, especially the fact they have clickable cockpits. As mentioned above the sounds are very convincing too. I was also impressed by the size of the map and went in knowing what to expect - from reading about it and watching documentaries I can tell that the area pretty much invented the term "featureless desert". I'm hoping that I can resolve the crash quickly, but playing it today I've felt the same thrill I get from the very best flight sims. Not regretting my purchase at all tonight!

 

[69thSpiritus]

4 minutes ago, IndianJones said:

I finally had a chance to play this afternoon - only for about an hour, and just quick flights. I've had an annoying intermittent launcher crash (ntdll.dll) which has been a bit of a downer...

 

...but overall I'm really impressed. The Wellington is gorgeous inside and out (love the geodesic structure you can see in the wings when the sun hits them at the right angle) and the flight dynamics are excellent. I was amazed by the number and variety of aircraft, especially the fact they have clickable cockpits. As mentioned above the sounds are very convincing too. I was also impressed by the size of the map and went in knowing what to expect - from reading about it and watching documentaries I can tell that the area pretty much invented the term "featureless desert". I'm hoping that I can resolve the crash quickly, but playing it today I've felt the same thrill I get from the very best flight sims. Not regretting my purchase at all tonight!

 

 

Can you report your crashes in the technical area here or at ATAG? 

[IndianJones]

1 minute ago, 69thSpiritus said:

 

Can you report your crashes in the technical area here or at ATAG? 

Will do! Hoping to get back on it tomorrow so will do it then.

[Jaws2002]

I just downloaded and installed, I didn't have try to play yet. 

 

On 8/6/2020 at 5:07 PM, No.54_Reddog said:

The sooner they implement TrueSky the better.

 

 

That's interesting. Did Team Fusion say they plan to implement TrueSky? That would improve the lighting engine dramatically. I was in love with the Original CLOD lighting engine and the "fix" Ilya introduced few patches after release, destroyed the game for me. 

 

If they can reintroduce some of that original beauty to the game, I may make CLOD my main game again.

[IRRE_Belmont]

9 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

I just downloaded and installed, I didn't have try to play yet. 

 

 

 

That's interesting. Did Team Fusion say they plan to implement TrueSky? That would improve the lighting engine dramatically. I was in love with the Original CLOD lighting engine and the "fix" Ilya introduced few patches after release, destroyed the game for me. 

 

If they can reintroduce some of that original beauty to the game, I may make CLOD my main game again.

 

Yeah i noticed some major graphical downgrades as well, i thought it was just my memory playing tricks, but then i found some old screenshots and realized how much scaled down the game actually was.

[69thSpiritus]

New weather/cloud system will be released, we are working on it for a future patch. 

[Jaws2002]

13 minutes ago, 69thSpiritus said:

New weather/cloud system will be released, we are working on it for a future patch. 

 

Thank you for keeping this game alive.

 

I really loved the original lighting engine. I hope this new addition will restore some of that natural beauty. 

After that infamous patch that Luthier introduced, all the color was removed from the game. It all became a grey murky mess, with cheap HDR replacing that amazing natural light.

 

I was crushed when that "fix' was introduced. I had really high hopes the natural beauty of CLiffs of dover would be restored, when Team Fusion took over, but it turned out not to be the case.  

  maybe with this TrueSKy addition, we could get some natural color back into the lighting engine.

[Redwo1f]

The aircraft in this are sure beautiful!...and indeed some of the best cockpits ever! - no complaints there at all! a ton of fun to be had flying many of them! - the engine sounds seem great too (I haven't had any sound problems here). And as others have posted, the lighting and desert indeed looks better when it isn't high noon. Nice to have the air chatter between pilots too.

 

Anyway, I have been watching the AI lately - actually been running quick missions and having the ai fight itself just to observe how it behaves (still early though). Finding a mix bag here...seeing some great things and some not-so-great things. The good: mixed maneuvers and tactics - not pre-programmed reactions - some very fluid and dynamic combat. I am not seeing things ultimately breaking down into turning fights. Booms and zooms, Ai often using climb and speed advantage (or attempting to exploit an advantage) - seeing often a good mix of the vertical and the horizontal. Seeing some good team tactics at times and some good wingmen support (though not at il2 1946 levels). It is also very clear that the AI isn't all-seeing, all-knowing - with aircraft getting jumped or attacked by enemies unseen, with breaks and juking (and indeed radio calls of pilot proclaiming he can't see them!)   - and that is a good thing. Some very good engagements. The bad: often target fixation - an aircraft staying locked in on it's target even though it gets in a bad situation (eg. enemy squadmates  get position on it and are firing) when it should break. Intermittent aggression - sometimes they are quite willing to mix it up, other times they don't seem too keen on fighting (and this could change dynamically during a battle - whether having an advantage or not) so you don't know what you are going to get -  and this can look very odd (I know morale and individual pilot humanistic modelling aren't included here (unlike Wings Over...series) - even so, things can go quite strangely. However, sometimes things go very nicely. Last conflict (4 vs 4) saw a BF 109 E7(trop) who was damaged break and run for it down low, with a squadmate disengaging as well to fly cover for him! (the two remaining spits decided that was fine with them and carried on their way).

 

Ultimately, you can see some really great engagements, and you can see some that leave you scratching your head... still looking at this (and have been specifically looking at dogfights, btw).

 

Having fun though...

Edited August 8, 2020 by Redwo1f

[Deltahawkoz]

Well pushed the button on this one..after initially griping about price.....bought off the IL2 website...guess wait until a key turns up?

[Redwo1f]

8 minutes ago, Deltahawkoz said:

Well pushed the button on this one..after initially griping about price.....bought off the IL2 website...guess wait until a key turns up?

 

You don't have to wait until the key turns up. It is immediate. Go  look in your profile (main il2sturmovik site), then license keys and find Tobruk. Copy that key and then start up steam and choose at the top, "games", then "activate a product on steam" and paste in that key.

Edited August 8, 2020 by Redwo1f

[Deltahawkoz]

Thanks Redwo1f..done.  Initial impressions.  Two thumbs up!.  I will get many hours of "fun" with both Blitz 5.0 and Desert Wings...well done TF!   

[BladeMeister]

6 hours ago, -IRRE-Belmont said:

 

Yeah i noticed some major graphical downgrades as well, i thought it was just my memory playing tricks, but then i found some old screenshots and realized how much scaled down the game actually was.

I am very interested for you to share what is scaled down? Please give specific examples so I can go and look for them because my initial impression is very good. I would really like to know what is scaled down. Please do share???

 

S!Blade<><

[Gruber-H]

14 hours ago, simfan2015 said:

I always loved Clod and now Tobruk even more so. But as other people have reported... This is not a new game. However I knew about this, like most people here I believe, so if you even considered Tobruk you will probably not be disappointed.

It seems the performance of the game was even further improved in version 5 ... tens of planes (and bombers!) in the air at the same time is no problem whatsever ... even for a lower end PC config.

In fact that is what I loved most about CloD and now the Tobruk expansion... everything feels 100% optimized (4K maxed out) !

The scenery is still OK and no problem to me (even in 2020) ... it is not (yet) as great as that new(er) and detailed DCS 'Channel map' ... but it is still more than pleasing to the eye ... yes, to me even the new Tobruk/desert map is more than OK. 

Also ... the SP missions and quick missions allow changing the default plane to almost any plane/theatre (in custom settings) ... amazing.  

To me il-2 GB is the number 1 WWII Sim, but this has now, to me personally (!), become the number 2 warbird sim...

I rate it even higher (although not really comparable/objective of course) .... than DCS/World War 2 (for which I also have all great, yet few warbirds).

In other words and IMHO ... anyone who can look beyond the still old-fashion Clod/Tobruk UI will discover a true gem ! 

 

What system specs do you have? I have a gtx1080, 9700K, all on a SSD. I cannot run the game at 4k without stutters looking at the ground, when I look at the sky its smooth. Ill confirm my Nvidia drivers when I get access to my PC. It's so frustrating it looks amazing in 4k, and its just spoiling this release for me.

 

Maple

[simfan2015]

@Maple my PC is not as good as yours, that's for sure. I am a DIY guy. I got a 9 year old Siemens "Business tower" for free (it was being thrown away) and tried to turn it into a gaming PC. New PSU, msi nvidia 1660 Ti Turing , Core i5, only 8G RAM, 1TB SSD. Iiyama 43 inch IPS monitor. Trackir 5. I play everything in... 4K nevertheless ? Smooth gameplay? with that I personally (!) mean... at least 20 fps that I get from most sims. I am afraid you are right that even Tobruk in 4K is not always perfectly fluid on my system down low ... but Tobruk sure is *far better* than... DCS in that regard. As soon as the nvidia 3080 Ti and the AMD ryzen 5000 (B4 end 2020) is available I will upgrade and also get the HP VR reverb G2.

I waited far too long, but with Turing not proving to be that great of an upgrade and the RTX 2080 Ti being 'crazy expensive' I decided to wait... Till now. I believe your system is still very good for Sim gaming... even in 4K... with the exception of course... DCS at max settings. That gtx 1080 was a perfect acquisition at the time! Good luck. 

Edited August 9, 2020 by simfan2015

[9./JG52Gruber]

Does it support more than 32 buttons on a controller now?

[RAAF492SQNOz_Steve]

25 minutes ago, 9./JG52_Gruber said:

Does it support more than 32 buttons on a controller now?

CLOD still only supports 32 buttons but looks like you can use a key mapper to get extra inputs 

Refer to the post "How to map Kanttorin Kone Throttle Console with the Cliffs of Dover Blitz/Tobruk games" part way down on Page 3 of this discussion

 

 

 

[Redwo1f]

Well, as I continue to carefully watch the Tobruk AI dogfight itself in 4 v 4 battles, I can say that it is far more dynamic and fluid then what we see with GBS regarding dogfighting AI (though I do like the GBS series very much (and acknowledge much improvement in GBS AI to what it once was)  and don't want to necessarily make it one product vs the other (they are BOTH good in their own ways), but kinda feel compelled to make some comparisons. Tobruk AI much much more willing to use the vertical when beneficial (whereas GBS sees almost exclusively (this with AI set to veteran) a horizontal fight (around 90% of the time anyways - eg. last quick AI run with GBS - P-38's "deciding" it is better to turn fight with BF 109 G-14's then even trying much to use their climb ?) - not so with Tobruk. So far I am still seeing as much vertical as I am horizontal (though, yes, there are turning fights at times -- but damn nice to see an aircraft actually break up and climb...or attempt to gain height and an energy advantage when out of the immediate mix and circle back above the fray diving down to aid a teammate! And indeed, I would also say that the team tactics and support seem much better in Tobruk than GBS (which at times seem to completely vanish). Tobruk AI appears to fly more as a cohesive team. Aside from some hiccups and some oddities I have already mentioned above, I'd give the AI dogfighting win from what I am seeing to Tobruk (far from perfect, and indeed sometimes things don't go well at all - but when it is clicking, things look pretty decent).

(*disclaimer - this is ONLY in the AI vs AI realm from my own personal observations and testing to this point*)

[Jabo_68*]

On 8/7/2020 at 11:51 PM, 69thSpiritus said:

@Esco

Try flying during the dusk/dawn times, there are lots of shadows and features when the sun is low on the horizon. 

Are you implying that only mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun?

[von_Tom]

 

Anyone played with heavy cloud yet?  How does it look and what happens to the fps?

 

von Tom

[Lusekofte]

On 8/6/2020 at 9:54 PM, Bemused said:

Meh. Came over from IL2. Interface is beyond clunky but navigated that using manual. Got keys setup, clunky again. Followed manual to get 109 F4 in air then everytime I tried to raise gear started shaking like an earthquake. Back to Sturmovik for me.

It require more knowledge to fly cod and a minimum of interest. 
I am on thin ice myself when it comes to mastering the more sophisticated features in this game. 
I love the prospect of learning , being good at something , basically all the things GB lack. 
I have nothing against GB, I love flying there too. But giving a review to someone asking for a honest opinion , while at the same time showing such ignorance in every sentence is in my mind pathetic. 
you give no one a favor
 

On 8/7/2020 at 3:49 PM, Sokol1 said:

Anyway, this Flashcards (English version) was updated today, download and drop in the folder, or where you want.

 

https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/Downloads.php?do=download&downloadid=225

 

Flash cards are well done but still advising the old fantasy: Switch magnets.

 

At least for CloD planes, e.g. Spitfire Mk.I-100 octanas in 5.0 is just require Open Fuel cock and hit I key  for engine start.

Ye select engine fuelchock , have throttle exactly right push start button. By pushing the start button the program will put magnetos on by itself. You can choose to do it yourself. 

What I like most is the piloting of aircraft the lack of auto level 

you can set course on autopilot on bombers and trim it to climb. It just more complex, need a bit more patience in learning process. 
It is better for me, not for all. It all depend on what you like to do. 
For squadrons with ambitions it is a way better software than GB in many aspects 

With success, something I really hope it will be improved 

[icecream]

I'm enjoying it a lot, really like the damage model clod and the rest it comes with.

[konate]

Just got it and been setting up and flying for a couple hours.  I've got about 700 hours in BoX and DCS and I've got to admit, I am really enjoying the immersion this sim provides.  The engine management is much more complex than BoX and the AI is WAY better. 

 

I do wish there was a visual zoom though (and I don't mean the instrument panel snap view; I still can't make out the readings).  There are lots more 'little' things that add up to a much more immersive experience, IMO. 

 

Another concern is that not all my Virpil stick and throttle buttons and switches are recognized and are therefore not usable; that is a big one 

[FTC_Derplo]

3 minutes ago, konate said:

I do wish there was a visual zoom though (and I don't mean the instrument panel snap view; I still can't make out the readings).  There are lots more 'little' things that add up to a much more immersive experience, IMO. 

you can, under Camera settings map a keybind for Field of View + and Field of View -

I use a hat switch on my throttle which works really well for this, but I know some people like to use a slider which I'm not entirely sure you can map. In any case, use the field of view options ?