Required CPU to avoid slow down/time dilation

[AtomicP]

I thought I had solved the issue of the sim clock slowing down in complex missions with an upgraded CPU and RAM, but it appears not. I've been playing through the Achtung Spitfire! campaign and in some of the missions, especially at the front line, time slows down, roughly by a third if I compare the passage of time of the aircraft clock with a real life stopclock. My Spitfire feels more like a bomber and the immersion of the mission goes out the window. It's really annoying!

 

For reference I had an AMD FX-8350 with 16 GB DDR3 RAM at 1600 MHz with a GTX 1060 6GB and I upgraded to an AMD Ryzen 5 1600AF with 16 GB DDR4 RAM at 3000 MHz. Same GPU. It's not night and day in upgrade terms but it should be better. I see others with the same issue of slow down such as the The Kuban Wall campaign and even the author has problems despite running an i9 9900KS at 5 GHz with 64 GB DDR4 RAM and a 2080Ti GPU. 

 

So, my question in short is what CPU is required to run the game properly? Do people put up with the slow down/time dilation? If no CPU exists that ameliorates the problem, perhaps the editor or game should have a function that limits what assets can be added to a map to avoid performance issues. 

[40plus]

Kuban map used to slow down for me quite a bit with my Ryzen 1700x. This was especially true when flying near boats and ships with the final mission in Sea Dragons crawling down to 24fps when attacking the retreating German fleet.

 

I upgraded to a 3800x and the issue was resolved.

[busdriver]

11 minutes ago, AtomicP said:

If no CPU exists that ameliorates the problem, perhaps the editor or game should have a function that limits what assets can be added to a map to avoid performance issues. 

 

It's a tough problem. I've got a Ryzen 9 3900X and there are situations (lots of AI objects running) where I experience TD.

[Gambit21]

At a certain threshold, TD will kick in regardless of your system specs. We’ve tested this extensively.

 

This threshold is somewhat dependent on the map being used as well as the type and amount of logic being used/activated.

 

Certain things like Attack MCU logic, AAA “brains” seem to have a great deal to do with this phenomenon. It’s not so simple as “too many aircraft” as I’ve seen TD happen with only 4 active aircraft on a map, and a handful of active guns.

 

It hasn’t been an easy thing to get a handle on. 

TD on the Rhineland map happens much sooner than on the Kuban map due (I think) to overall size and/or objects...even when eliminating most city/town objects except for those seen along the mission route. Again, a tough one.

[AtomicP]

3 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

At a certain threshold, TD will kick in regardless of your system specs. We’ve tested this extensively.

 

This threshold is somewhat dependent on the map being used as well as the type and amount of logic being used/activated.

 

Certain things like Attack MCU logic, AAA “brains” seem to have a great deal to do with this phenomenon. It’s not so simple as “too many aircraft” as I’ve seen TD happen with only 4 active aircraft on a map, and a handful of active guns.

 

It hasn’t been an easy thing to get a handle on. 

TD on the Rhineland map happens much sooner than on the Kuban map due (I think) to overall size and/or objects...even when eliminating most city/town objects except for those seen along the mission route. Again, a tough one.

 

I think what annoys me most is that it's a gamble whether a mission will play correctly. Also there's no setting in game to make it run better like there is for graphics settings. 

 

At some point I'll upgrade the CPU to something meatier but it's a difficult problem to quantify. Again, unlike GPUs where X or Y GPU will net say 20% better fps, it's not clear what CPU is required to offer mostly good or excellent performance. I'm sure a top of the line Intel or AMD CPU would be fine but most folk including me don't have the cash for that and I'm sure the devs don't all have top of the line hardware. 

 

Do you have any handle on whether this is an issue the devs are actively trying to remedy? I'd guess that it's a major hurdle in the way of increasing formation sizes and adding in heavy bombers.

[Gambit21]

56 minutes ago, AtomicP said:

 

I think what annoys me most is that it's a gamble whether a mission will play correctly. Also there's no setting in game to make it run better like there is for graphics settings. 

 

Impossible as it relates to placed mission logic by the mission builder, not something that can be dialed out with a setting.

 

56 minutes ago, AtomicP said:

At some point I'll upgrade the CPU to something meatier but it's a difficult problem to quantify. Again, unlike GPUs where X or Y GPU will net say 20% better fps, it's not clear what CPU is required to offer mostly good or excellent performance. I'm sure a top of the line Intel or AMD CPU would be fine but most folk including me don't have the cash for that and I'm sure the devs don't all have top of the line hardware. 

 

As stated at a certain threshold TD kicks in no matter which CPU you have, thus I would not upgrade CPU unless your current system is somewhat archaic.

 

 

56 minutes ago, AtomicP said:

 

Do you have any handle on whether this is an issue the devs are actively trying to remedy? I'd guess that it's a major hurdle in the way of increasing formation sizes and adding in heavy bombers.

 

I can only say that they don't ignore things.

I imagine it's on the 'to do' list somewhere. 

 

That said we've not put much effort into reporting the problem since it's so difficult to quantify/demonstrate a consistent cause for.

They are aware though.

[WheelwrightPL]

7 GHZ CPU is the minimum recommended for smooth gameplay. On a more serious note: I petitioned the devs to add an additional option "density of air assets", so we can adjust the amount of planes in similar way to what we are already doing to the ground assets. Of course I only heard crickets in response.

 

 

 

[Gambit21]

11 minutes ago, WheelwrightPL said:

 I petitioned the devs to add an additional option "density of air assets", so we can adjust the amount of planes in similar way to what we are already doing to the ground assets. Of course I only heard crickets in response.

 

 

It's not that simple unfortunately.

[sniperton]

16 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

Certain things like Attack MCU logic, AAA “brains” seem to have a great deal to do with this phenomenon. It’s not so simple as “too many aircraft” as I’ve seen TD happen with only 4 active aircraft on a map, and a handful of active guns.

 

There are possibly related, but certainly parallel issues online, where even inactive static objects can bring DServer on its knees according to tests by @SAS_Storebror: https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,64511.msg709796.html#msg709796

[AtomicP]

13 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Impossible as it relates to placed mission logic by the mission builder, not something that can be dialed out with a setting.

 

 

As stated at a certain threshold TD kicks in no matter which CPU you have, thus I would not upgrade CPU unless your current system is somewhat archaic.

 

 

 

I can only say that they don't ignore things.

I imagine it's on the 'to do' list somewhere. 

 

That said we've not put much effort into reporting the problem since it's so difficult to quantify/demonstrate a consistent cause for.

They are aware though.

 

Understood that it's not a straightforward linear problem to solve. Maybe a warning somewhere in the game (toggleable of course) that might indicate that the CPU can't manage to keep all the plates spinning at once would be helpful. So when the game clock deviates from real time a warning could flag that it's 0.8 x real time or something like that. Then there's a number to track and perhaps pin down what is causing the issues. 

 

I appreciate your responses.

[Harlequin]

I've had this issue for quite some time.  I5 4460,16gb ddr3, GTX 1070 running at 1080 Res. 

I'm thinking of upgrading to a 4790k, as I can just swap the CPUs and keep my existing motherboard, but worried it won't be enough.  I'd be happy with playing on scattered and the occasional slowdown, but at the moment it's almost always slowing down in combat.  Even on scattered.  

Anyone know if the 4790k would be good?

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

43 minutes ago, cosg_Paul said:

Anyone know if the 4790k would be good?

 

The 4790K would increase your CPU performance by roughly 30 percent thanks to the much higher frequency. This puts you approximately halfway between the 4460 and the faster modern CPUs.

 

Whether it's a good idea depends on the price of the 4790K that you can get compared to the price of a modern CPU + MoBo + RAM. This can vary significantly.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Mitthrawnuruodo

[Jaws2002]

 

22 hours ago, cosg_Paul said:

I'm thinking of upgrading to a 4790k, as I can just swap the CPUs and keep my existing motherboard, but worried it won't be enough

 

 

      That's a bad idea. That chip is old and not exactly cheap. Swapping the CPU will still leave you with an old motherboard, old slow memory and the same graphics card. The performance improvement in game will be pretty small. 

 You can do A LOT BETTER by swapping the motherboard, memory and CPU, even if you get them second hand from Ebay. 

      You can get a brand new Ryzen 5  3600 for a $159 and it will run rings around the 4790k.

That will allow you to get a much faster , newer motherboard and pair it with faster, ddr4 memory, for a much more potent overall computer. 

 

Not worth it, in my opinion.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Jaws2002

[Harlequin]

Thanks for the replies.  I had thought of the 4790k as it looks like good single thread performance (the best I can get for current mobo).  A lot of more recent CPUs on the market don't have as high base clock rates so unsure how well they would do in il2.  I guess it takes us back to the OP question of what would be a good CPU for il2?  I say this because I get the feeling that the cpu which gives the best bang for buck in il2 might not be the same as for other games.

 

I'm open to buying 2nd hand components.  Let's say running in scattered mode with very rare slowdown at 1080p using the following; gtx 1070, 16gb ram, ssd.

 

Any recommendations beyond the Ryzen mentioned?

 

P.s how does the Ryzen 5 3600 do in il2?

 

Many thanks

 

 

[Jaws2002]

I had a 3600x, (basically a factory overclocked 3600) for about a month, before i swapped it for 3950x. the 3600x was just around four FPS slower than 3950X. 

 

 

At this link you can find how the CPUs players have compare in a benchmark track, at 1080P, you can see my results with both 3950x and 3600x and everything else being the same.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gJmnz_nVxI6_dG_UYNCCpZVK2-f8NBy-y1gia77Hu_k/edit#gid=1719385058

  

 Intel 9000 and 10000 series are better for this game, so a 9600 should give you very good performance. Paired up with a new motherboard, fast DDR4 and your 1070, you should have a very good setup for 1080P. 

you can look through that list to have a good idea how CPUs and combination of hardware affect performance in this game.

 

Here's the thread with the track, testing procedures and results posted by players.

 

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by Jaws2002

[Harlequin]

Thanks for that.  Looks like the 3600 or 3600x are pretty good value. Might do a build using the 3600x I think.  Unless there's anything else that might give good value.  Will see what's available 2nd hand nearby too :)

 

What was the reason for going to the 3950x so soon?  

Hopefully nothing il2 related :)

 

thanks

[kendo]

15 hours ago, cosg_Paul said:

Thanks for that.  Looks like the 3600 or 3600x are pretty good value. Might do a build using the 3600x I think.  Unless there's anything else that might give good value.  Will see what's available 2nd hand nearby too

 

What was the reason for going to the 3950x so soon?  

Hopefully nothing il2 related

 

thanks

 

Best to wait a few months for the 4000 series to be released (September afaik).

 

AMD has been suggesting significant performance increases.

 

[RedKestrel]

On 7/27/2020 at 10:34 PM, Jaws2002 said:

I had a 3600x, (basically a factory overclocked 3600) for about a month, before i swapped it for 3950x. the 3600x was just around four FPS slower than 3950X. 

 

 

At this link you can find how the CPUs players have compare in a benchmark track, at 1080P, you can see my results with both 3950x and 3600x and everything else being the same.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gJmnz_nVxI6_dG_UYNCCpZVK2-f8NBy-y1gia77Hu_k/edit#gid=1719385058

  

 Intel 9000 and 10000 series are better for this game, so a 9600 should give you very good performance. Paired up with a new motherboard, fast DDR4 and your 1070, you should have a very good setup for 1080P. 

you can look through that list to have a good idea how CPUs and combination of hardware affect performance in this game.

 

Here's the thread with the track, testing procedures and results posted by players.

 

 

Unfortunately, that track no longer works. After the big deferred rendering patch it doesnt run anymore. 

[Jaws2002]

20 hours ago, cosg_Paul said:

What was the reason for going to the 3950x so soon?  

Hopefully nothing il2 related

 I wanted the 3950x for it's multithreading performance in other applications and the release was delayed until december. I lost patience in november and i built the new  box with a temporary fix. Once the 3950x was released, i just swapped the chips and sold the 3600x back to my local pc parts guy. 

Not game related. 

  I agree with Kendo. If you can hold the upgrade for two, three months, Ryzen 4000 should bring a solid game performance boost, with the promised higher boost clock, unified L3 cache and faster infinity fabric.

 I'd wait.

[Bernard_IV]

You guys need clock speed and water cooling.  The newer Intels can hit 5ghz+.  The Ryzens are a bit behind in speed favoring more cores which IL2 does not use.  The new Ryzens are catching up though. 

[Jaws2002]

6 hours ago, Bernard_IV said:

You guys need clock speed and water cooling.  The newer Intels can hit 5ghz+.  The Ryzens are a bit behind in speed favoring more cores which IL2 does not use.  The new Ryzens are catching up though. 

  

The Ryzens are not behind. The game is behind.

[Harlequin]

6 hours ago, Bernard_IV said:

You guys need clock speed and water cooling.  The newer Intels can hit 5ghz+.  The Ryzens are a bit behind in speed favoring more cores which IL2 does not use.  The new Ryzens are catching up though. 

Hi.

Do you have any recommendations for an Intel chip at a similar price point? I have liquid cooling.   The 4 core fast clock speed is what made me think originally that a 4790k would be a good choice.  

Il2 uses only 4 cores right?  Im looking for il2 performance as a priority compared to other games.

Would be happy to hear your ideas :)

[Bernard_IV]

3 hours ago, Jaws2002 said:

  

The Ryzens are not behind. The game is behind.

Ryzen is ahead in die size and core count, they are more advanced chips no doubt but the old 14nm Intels can hit super high speeds that the Ryzens can't yet hit making the Intels better for most games when tested against each other.  True the IL2 game is old and could be better optimized to where the Ryzens would have the edge.  Ryzens in workstations are monsters.

 

3 hours ago, cosg_Paul said:

Hi.

Do you have any recommendations for an Intel chip at a similar price point? I have liquid cooling.   The 4 core fast clock speed is what made me think originally that a 4790k would be a good choice.  

Il2 uses only 4 cores right?  Im looking for il2 performance as a priority compared to other games.

Would be happy to hear your ideas

Your current CPU maxes out at 3.4ghz which is really slow.  If you could get to 4.5ghz or so it would really help you so I think a 4790k would be a good idea.  I've read of people hitting 4.8ghz on that chip which is really good.  Sometimes you find one that just won't overclock well though.  If you are buying a whole new setup anything 7700k and newer will go at least 4.8ghz.  I'm at 5.3ghz with a 7700k on a direct die watercooling setup with liquid metal in there which I did so I can run VR really well.  Some decent ram could help you too.  I have the 3200 CL14 stuff.  I would go faster but my system won't seem to run any better than that.  Maybe a weak memory controller.

[Harlequin]

Thanks for all the advice.  I managed to find a Ryzen 3600xt for £150 2nd hand.  Current retail for that chip in the UK is about £225, so happy with the price.  

Now going to try a build with 16gb ram, 3200mhz and most likely an a520 motherboard.

Will report back on how things improve

[Voidhunger]

On 7/24/2020 at 7:14 PM, Gambit21 said:

Certain things like Attack MCU logic, AAA “brains” seem to have a great deal to do with this phenomenon. It’s not so simple as “too many aircraft” as I’ve seen TD happen with only 4 active aircraft on a map, and a handful of active guns.

Thats exactly my observation. Sometimes map is almost empty and game is slow.

Or is slowing/ speeding up when you are out or close to enemy AA units. I hope they will try to improve those slowdowns in the near future .

I wonder if they even play/test the career or they are thinking thats ok nobody will notice.

What harware are they using if they are ok with the performance of the career mode?

 

And gambit confirmed my suspicion that whatever hw you are using there will always be slowdowns. Even with newest cpus. So end of testing, it's pointless.

[dburne]

13 hours ago, Voidhunger said:

Thats exactly my observation. Sometimes map is almost empty and game is slow.

Or is slowing/ speeding up when you are out or close to enemy AA units. I hope they will try to improve those slowdowns in the near future .

I wonder if they even play/test the career or they are thinking thats ok nobody will notice.

What harware are they using if they are ok with the performance of the career mode?

 

And gambit confirmed my suspicion that whatever hw you are using there will always be slowdowns. Even with newest cpus. So end of testing, it's pointless.

 

It would be nice if this could be improved upon for sure.

Time dilation can get a little frustrating along with trying to accelerate time to speed things up on long flights.

I don't think throwing a new CPU at it is going to help anytime soon.

Edited January 28, 2021 by dburne

[Wilhelm_Heidkamp]

You cannot compare AMD and Intel frequencies in CPU. The performance in each CPU is depending on the architecture. For example, several AMD CPU,s are faster in FPS in games in single core than Intel CPU,s with higher frequency. 

An AMD 5800X at 4.8GHz in single is faster than a 10700K at similar frequency (OC). If you want to know the performance of each CPU in games, check benchs and reviews. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by PA_Willy

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

On 1/27/2021 at 7:49 PM, dburne said:

 

It would be nice if this could be improved upon for sure.

Time dilation can get a little frustrating along with trying to accelerate time to speed things up on long flights.

I don't think throwing a new CPU at it is going to help anytime soon.

This. I posted this in another thread but it is relevant here too.

 

I have been monitoring and tweaking my system to try to eliminate the time dilation. With hwinfo64, I am seeing some disturbing information.

 

I am in VR with Rift S on my Razer Blade 15 with an i7-9750h (6 cores/12 threads) and RTX 2070 Maxq. What my system monitor is telling me is that I am only getting approximately 60-80% GPU usage. My cpu usage is ever more alarming as I am not getting more than 45-50% on a single thread. I have tried with and without hyperthreading and performance is worse with it off. CPU clock speeds are holding a steady 4 GHZ on each core. I am seeing effective thread speeds of 2-2.5 GHZ. Physical ram usage is only about 8 GB of 16. The page file is not being used. My system is not even close to thermal throttling (CPU around 75-80 C, GPU around 70). The game and oculus programs are using all cores, but why is the game not taking advantage of all available resources with such low usage rates?

 

In these scenarios, I am seeing reprojection kicking on and off and the framerate flipping back and forth between 40 and 80. On campaign missions I am seeing slight time dilation when there are AI units on screen (scattered selected in career), but the frame rate is constant. I think this is a game engine problem.

 

For the record, when I run ps3 emulation (smooth as butter for NCAA Football 14) on my system, I am seeing individual thread usage rates of 70-95% on multiple threads at the same time. This does drop my clock speeds to about 3.5 GHZ sustained, but the performance vs. IL-2 is night a day despite how much more intensive emulation is than a native game--albeit a simulator. 

[Gambit21]

5 minutes ago, =AW=drewm3i-VR said:

 

 I am seeing slight time dilation when there are AI units on screen (scattered selected in career), but the frame rate is constant. I think this is a game engine problem.

 

 

To be clear, TD occurs when too many (which sometimes isn't that many)  AI units are active and doing their thing, whether on screen or somewhere else on the map.

 

From reports I'm seeing, the new Ryzen CPU's are mitigating this problem to some extent.

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

 

To be clear, TD occurs when too many (which sometimes isn't that many)  AI units are active and doing their thing, whether on screen or somewhere else on the map.

 

From reports I'm seeing, the new Ryzen CPU's are mitigating this problem to some extent.

I believe you that the new NASA chips will help, but modern cpus like mine shouldn't be having any issues with medium settings on campaigns. I literally get 150 FPS with no TD in CLoD with over 100 AI units on the screen and tons of flak. In Warthunder I hold 80 FPS (headset refresh rate) on ultra at all times (yes, I know it's not a sim and therefore not as demanding but still). Will the cpu intensive AI in this game be its Achilles heel going forward? For the record, I didn't have this issue years ago on a much inferior system (4 core i7 6700HQ @ 3.5 GHZ max boost and GTX 1060) when it was just Stalingrad and Moscow. Something changed re: AI and cpu usage between 2017 and 2019 and it wasn't for the better.

[BladeMeister]

1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

 

To be clear, TD occurs when too many (which sometimes isn't that many)  AI units are active and doing their thing, whether on screen or somewhere else on the map.

 

From reports I'm seeing, the new Ryzen CPU's are mitigating this problem to some extent.

I am building a Ryzen 5600x based system on an Asus Prime x570 P chipset using a Samsung 500GB Pro M.2 SSD with an RTX 2070 xc Ultra GPU. It would be nice to know what some of these missions are so that once I get this rig sorted in the next couple of weeks, then I could test them and see if that statement is true.

 

S!Blade<><

[Gambit21]

You can run my Rhineland test mission.

 

I'm building a 5800x (sweet spot) system as well - but still waiting for a damn 3080. 

[Hartigan]

Just upgraded to 5600x and suprim x 3080. Expensive upgrade for sure but worth of every penny! I have finally disabled reprojection and can keep 90 FPS 95% of time with Reverb G1. (+124 Steam SS) high clouds etc. 

Some cpu intensive missions still give me a double Image (edit:ghosting Image) and stutters while keeping 90 FPS.

Cpu is stock except undervolt for better allcore boost . This chip actually doesn't need any overclocking. 

But of you can afford and find one...go for 3080 . 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Hartigan

[Jaws2002]

9 hours ago, Hartigan said:

But of you can afford and find one...go for 3080 .

  Finding a 3080 is the hard part.

  With this new crypto craze, the etherium miners are grabin the stock.

 RTX 3080 turned out to have the perfect balance between performance, memory, power consumption and price for crypto mining, all of this big ethereum mining farms are grabing all the 3080s. 

 Nvidia is now selling directly to them. There was a single transaction of 175.000.000 dollars worth of 3080s,  few weeks a go going straight to the miners. 

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/76468/cant-buy-new-ampere-gpu-thats-because-nvidia-sold-them-to-miners/index.html

 

 Gamers are second rate gpu customers now and the absence of stock proves that.

 

Heck, the miners are now bulk buying up even RTX3000 equipped laptops and Nvidia does nothing.

Just look at this photos:

https://videocardz.com/newz/hundreds-of-nvidia-geforce-rtx-30-gaming-laptops-spotted-in-a-mining-farm

Edited February 10, 2021 by Jaws2002

[Hartigan]

Slowdowns and time dilation are most CPU related things and newest CPUs can help, but cant get rid of them completely . Newest GPU like 3080 help a lot with high quality clouds and anti-aliasing but has very little to do with these mysterious slowdowns

[RedKestrel]

1 hour ago, Jaws2002 said:

  Finding a 3080 is the hard part.

  With this new crypto craze, the etherium miners are grabin the stock.

 RTX 3080 turned out to have the perfect balance between performance, memory, power consution and price for crypto mining, all of this big etherium mining farms are grabing all the 3080s. 

 Nvidia is now selling directly to them. There was a single transaction of 175.000.000 dollars worth of 3080s,  few weeks a go going straight to the miners. 

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/76468/cant-buy-new-ampere-gpu-thats-because-nvidia-sold-them-to-miners/index.html

 

 Gamers are second rate gpu customers now and the absence of stock proves that.

 

Heck, the miners are now bulk buying up even RTX3000 equipped laptops and Nvidia does nothing.

Just look at this photos:

https://videocardz.com/newz/hundreds-of-nvidia-geforce-rtx-30-gaming-laptops-spotted-in-a-mining-farm

Crypto has to be one of the longest running pyramid schemes going. I wouldn't care if idiots wanted to throw their money away but this is getting ridiculous.

[Jaws2002]

Here are the 3080's:

 

 

While you can't find a single RTX3000 in stock, there are mining rigs like this, in stock, ready to go.

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Jaws2002

[RedKestrel]

15 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

Here are the 3080's:

 

 

While you can't find a single RTX3000 in stock, there are mining rigs like this, in stock, ready to go.

 

Sometimes I think I am not a vindictive person. But I look at that and think 'man, it would be a real shame if there was a power surge that fried thousands of dollars worth of cards and wiped their e-wallets' or whatever these jokers keep their money in.

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

Well, I reinstalled the game and now on the Spitfire IX Rheinland "airbase defense" mission there is no time dilation and I can achieve 4/8x time compression. I think the last update broke my game somehow. This may be something to try for those having issues.

[BladeMeister]

 

S!Blade<><