P-51 Tail Damage

[-332FG-Buddy]

I just wanted to take a second to address the excessive tail damage that occurs with the P-51 DM  at the moment............https://www.dropbox.com/s/ginq5wi5npntykq/IL-2 Sturmovik Battle of Stalingrad 2020.07.23 - 15.12.32.01_Trim.mp4?dl=0

in the link the P-51 clearly has movement in the elevator, yet because of the modeling of the DM it was not responsive at all.  i understand this is a game and not a full blown sim but this issue has been here for at least the last two months. i understand the 50s, for some, seem under powered but that coupled with the fact that the 51 tail section is literally made of glass is just too much  its not even competitive with these issues.  Before OTHERS attack this post one way or another and try to change or distort the narrative, just realize this is my opinion and the opinion of others i have spoke with.  JASON, if we could please get some type of answer on this or explanation it would be great.  I have purchased every module but tanks so far and have also purchased modules for other members within my group.   I like supporting this game and its developers and want to continue to do that,. I understand this gets very convoluted for you devs with all the compliants, but it would be greatly appreciated if this could be addressed  ...thanks

[-332FG-TheAmazingFire]

same thing happened to me. its very annoying...i can push the nose down just fine but i cant pull up at all.

 

 

Edited July 23, 2020 by -332FG-TheAmazingFire

[Derfety]

Data log shows only 2.2% damage to the aircraft

Edited July 24, 2020 by -332FG-Derfety

[Legioneod]

I haven't watched it yet but maybe the control cables were shot out or damaged?

Also in the case of being able to move the elevators down but not up, maybe only part of the cables were shot out making it impossible to pitch up?

 

EDIT: It does seem odd that the even though the elevator was pitched in a nose up attitude the aircraft didn't respond. Odd. Even with the elevator damaged or cables shot out the aircraft should go wear the elevators pitch even if the player isnt controlling them directly.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Legioneod

[-332FG-Buddy]

2 hours ago, Legioneod said:

I haven't watched it yet but maybe the control cables were shot out or damaged?

Also in the case of being able to move the elevators down but not up, maybe only part of the cables were shot out making it impossible to pitch up?

 

EDIT: It does seem odd that the even though the elevator was pitched in a nose up attitude the aircraft didn't respond. Odd. Even with the elevator damaged or cables shot out the aircraft should go wear the elevators pitch even if the player isnt controlling them directly.

Yes and thank you that is one of the issues we've been having with the 51....see it kind of stinks because we've been sitting on this for a couple months hoping that it would get fixed but being that it hasn't and it's ruining our gaming experience.... And I mean that word ruining it ....... Now it sounds like we are just complaining about every little thing.   Me and my group try not to be complainers but when an aircraft were portion of multiplayer seems corrupted and it's for good amount of time without it even being addressed let alone looked at, there comes a point where we have to start saying something.  Maybe we should have brought up these issues earlier I don't know but we're trying to bring them up now because we don't want to give up on this game, I don't want to give up on this game.  I bought a PC joystick throttle rudder pedals, vr, the works. Including every module but tanks, on top of the fact that I bought multiple modules for multiple people to try to help them out.   It doesn't matter what aircraft is breaking the game whether it's my favorite one or my least favorite I don't want any aircraft broken cuz it destroys the game.  For me if the 109 was broken it wouldn't be fun for me because I'm not looking for any kind of advantage from a broken part of the game.  That maybe just me and my group but I'm pretty sure there's others like that too..... It seems like to me that other people don't want to lose the advantage that they've gained by these corruptions found with the damage model of the P-51, the 50 calibers, The 109 damage model, and/or the net code.   What I want is the dev s you really look at this issue and make an effort like they've been doing in the past.  I'm trying to reserve confidence that they are going to if we speak up in a professional, concise manner

 

[Honza]

Well, in mp it seems that majority of players are flying germs so i wouldnt even expect any changes in. 50s, 109 dmg model, stupid titanium fbw elevator or dmg model of P51 as it would go against that majority. That elevator stupidity is here for how long? Years? Absolutely useless. 50s for +-4 months and they can see it. No changes tho, no API belt (even though it wont change anything). Its 109/190 sim. Its boring and frustrating already for allied players, when you have to either kill enemy pilot in first pass, pray for lucky hit and fire or die due to p51s tail being usseless after few 13mm hits or 109 evading with instant - 4-5G maneuver in super high speed which would most likely cripple or even kill pilot. 

[CountZero]

Just fly british like most of us, if game wonts you think that americans were so incompatante in anything ww2 air stuff , then use ones that work, leve 51s 47s in hangar where they belong, if this direction continues sone well be playing 109s vs 109s in allied skins how things turned to one side so sudenly after DM update.

[Honza]

20 minutes ago, CountZero said:

Just fly british like most of us, if game wonts you think that americans were so incompatante in anything ww2 air stuff , then use ones that work, leve 51s 47s in hangar where they belong, if this direction continues sone well be playing 109s vs 109s in allied skins how things turned to one side so sudenly after DM update.

I love P47D22 and mustangs and B/C mustangs are loves as razorback. Thats the reason why iam so sad and frustrated from current state of 50s, i cant even imagine suffering with only 4 of them in B/C. When i fly K4 or G14, its absolute easymode. P47 is super nightmare and P51 super hard as you still have slight chance to run away atleast. I really dont want to fly other stuff only because its only available usable option. I want all planes to be usable and currebtly 2 legends of ww2 are useless trainers. USAAF command must have hated their guys if they let them fly with 4x .50 until 44. And without api belts in mustangs.

Edited August 26, 2020 by =DMD=Honza

[Blutaar]

Thats odd. I mostly fly against the P51 with all kinds of planes in QM at Ace level because it is in my opinion the best allied AI plane to lfy against. It has speed, it has maneuverabilty, can pull more Gs and is the most robust plane to fight against. No other fighter is more resilient to damage in my opinion. Never saw hits on the elevator renders them inoperable even with half the elevator shot off. Maybe AI is not affected? I need good long bursts in the center of the plane to shoot it down. Maybe i should aim at the elevator? But even shooting them dead six i had the impression that it is a very tough airplane. I cant comment much on the recieving end because the AI cant shoot but i never had problems in it when getting some lucky shot from the AI.

 

Remember, thats just my opinion from an offline point of view. Others might have different opinions and thats ok. I just find it odd that i have only good experience with the P51 while i read posts how bad the plane is. Even the guns are nice, the rate of pilot kills is insane and its easy to hit with them. I usually fight against 5 waves of enemy planes and have no difficulty in it. I wish we had proper API.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Blutaar

[CountZero]

I just dont remenber big complains before 4.005 how 0.50 cal or AP is to strong, so to me it was strange to here that HE needs to be buffed and AP weekend, since i play game HE was always better, what they did with 4.005 is made any HE only ammo worth having in game. With 51 axis had oponent on eaqual footing so something had to be done to make it easy again for them like they had it before so to me changes done in 4.005 look just like that, give axis advantage they need. Where is all the complains about how 0.50 are to strong and game was broken and 109 tail needs to be stronger, before 4.005.

29 minutes ago, Blutaar said:

Thats odd. I mostly fly against the P51 with all kinds of planes in QM at Ace level because it is in my opinion the best allied AI plane to lfy against. It has speed, it has maneuverabilty, can pull more Gs and is the most robust plane to fight against. No other fighter is more resilient to damage in my opinion. Never saw hits on the elevator renders them inoperable even with half the elevator shot off. Maybe AI is not affected? I need good long bursts in the center of the plane to shoot it down. Maybe i should aim at the elevator? But even shooting them dead six i had the impression that it is a very tough airplane. I cant comment much on the recieving end because the AI cant shoot but i never had problems in it when getting some lucky shot from the AI.

 

Remember, thats just my opinion from an offline point of view. Others might have different opinions and thats ok. I just find it odd that i have only good experience with the P51 while i read posts how bad the plane is. Even the guns are nice, the rate of pilot kills is insane and its easy to hit with them. I usually fight against 5 waves of enemy planes and have no difficulty in it. I wish we had proper API, then it would be the best anti fighter weapon ingame for sure.

Try it online vs 109s, or just try with 109 only 13he vs 51s and see how easy it is compared to 51 with 6x0.50 vs 109s, and especialy when you attack from dead 6 ( most comon type online on expert servers ), how its now you just warn your enemy who didnt see you that your on his 6 if you hit him. All was fine with 0.50 and 109 tail before 4.005, or mutch better then its now.

[Honza]

53 minutes ago, Blutaar said:

Thats odd. I mostly fly against the P51 with all kinds of planes in QM at Ace level because it is in my opinion the best allied AI plane to lfy against. It has speed, it has maneuverabilty, can pull more Gs and is the most robust plane to fight against. No other fighter is more resilient to damage in my opinion. Never saw hits on the elevator renders them inoperable even with half the elevator shot off. Maybe AI is not affected? I need good long bursts in the center of the plane to shoot it down. Maybe i should aim at the elevator? But even shooting them dead six i had the impression that it is a very tough airplane. I cant comment much on the recieving end because the AI cant shoot but i never had problems in it when getting some lucky shot from the AI.

 

Remember, thats just my opinion from an offline point of view. Others might have different opinions and thats ok. I just find it odd that i have only good experience with the P51 while i read posts how bad the plane is. Even the guns are nice, the rate of pilot kills is insane and its easy to hit with them. I usually fight against 5 waves of enemy planes and have no difficulty in it. I wish we had proper API, then it would be the best anti fighter weapon ingame for sure.

Try it against players, AIs on whatever difficulty are generally usess in all games, il2 is no difference. I can kill ai with 50s without problem too but MP is problem where player can co troll plane much more. Btw, that tail bs just happend to me yesterday, o e single hit and whole tail "gone". Meanwhile 109 flew without problems after multiple hits onto wings and even fuel tank /mw50 tank area which is bs. =>

 

Edited August 26, 2020 by =DMD=Honza

[von_Tom]

What is the allied version of Luftwhiners?

 

Present your findings and evidence in the bug reports sub-forum and if there is an error it may get fixed. 
 

“My opinion” means nothing. That goes for my opinion too obviously. 
 

von Tom

[357th_KW]

On 8/26/2020 at 11:48 AM, von_Tom said:

What is the allied version of Luftwhiners?

 

Present your findings and evidence in the bug reports sub-forum and if there is an error it may get fixed. 
 

“My opinion” means nothing. That goes for my opinion too obviously. 
 

von Tom

 

 

[Cecil]

Yeah, I posted that to the flight and damage model physics bug thread a month ago, and when I asked recently if it had been tested yet or if the devs knew about it, I was just told that testing was in the plans... So I think it'll be a while before anything gets fixed.  ?

[-332FG-Buddy]

3 hours ago, KW_1979 said:

 

 

I wonder what the devs thoughts on this are?, I wonder if people will find some reason to call this^^^^^ normal?, This right here and lack of .50s is why I haven't played il2 in more then a month ....this ....this right here ....for me is game breaking.  The fact that it been this way for months and people want to call people "allied luftwinners" is funny lol .....

[-DED-Rapidus]

Yes, clarification of the problem is in the plans.

[Cpt_Siddy]

Is this phenomena as bad if you use 50 cal AP ammo? 

 

 If it is not too much to ask, try squirt it with p-39, and see if as bad.

[SAS_Storebror]

2 hours ago, -DED-Rapidus said:

Yes, clarification of the problem is in the plans.

Would be cool if any such confirmation could come for the cal .50 & 109 tail issue as well.

 

Mike

[von_Tom]

On 9/26/2020 at 9:35 PM, -332FG-Buddy said:

...and people want to call people "allied luftwinners" is funny lol .....

 

It's about right though.  reminds me when the FW flight model was broken due to wing chord airflow (or whatever it was).  It got fixed but those that flew it got pilloried for mentioning it - in part rightly so when it was raised again and again and again.

 

The video demonstrates some oddities save that the damage done is significant even with a "small" hit.  Wait for the devs to look at it.

 

But, the amount of hyperbole over the P51 tail, 50cal and 109 tail is just silly - "I won't play the game" leads to only one person losing out.  Pick a different aircraft until it is fixed. Hell, fly VVS because those crates can down a 109 easily, tail DM issues or not.

 

von Tom

Edited September 28, 2020 by von_Tom

[SAS_Storebror]

49 minutes ago, von_Tom said:

reminds me when the FW flight model was broken due to wing chord airflow (or whatever it was).  It got fixed

How long did it take to fix it?

 

49 minutes ago, von_Tom said:

the amount of hyperbole over the P51 tail, 50cal and 109 tail is just silly

Maybe it's because the issue exists for 5 months now, and there's no end in sight.

 

53 minutes ago, von_Tom said:

fly VVS

Let's all fly Luftwaffe, consequently.

No issues for anyone and all have the same stuff at hands.

 

Mike

[messsucher]

46 minutes ago, SAS_Storebror said:

How long did it take to fix it?

 

Maybe it's because the issue exists for 5 months now, and there's no end in sight.

 

Let's all fly Luftwaffe, consequently.

No issues for anyone and all have the same stuff at hands.

 

Mike

 

Yeah, lets all be one big happy family ?

[-DED-Rapidus]

The issue has been fixed, there were indeed flaws, and you can expect a fix in the next update.