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Posted (edited)

With only 60 rounds per gun of 20mm cannon, and 350 rounds per gun for the 7.7mm machine guns, how do you all like to use this armament?

The 7.7 MG has about triple the firing time of the cannon, yet it's not a very effective calibre compared to the 12.7 MGs in other planes.

 

Do you spray the machine gun on it's own, and then bring cannon into play just for close up shots? Or do you attack with both and use the leftover machine gun just for defence on the way home?

 

Or cannon for bombers and MG for fighters?

 

Long range machine gun doesn't seem very useful since you can only really damage the pilot/engine with it, not much chance to shoot a wing or tail off unlike cannon. It seems to me it's best to get very close for both armaments.

 

Historical pilot accounts seem to prefer firing ALL the ammunition in one single attack then going home to land. Although I'm sure alot of us "game players" would prefer more than just 1 kill  :)

Edited by Dan_Taipan

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Hey Dan,

 

For me, what works with the Spit and most aircraft with wing mounted guns is to set convergence up at 120m and fill the sight with the enemy fighter.

 

Short bursts with the small caliber MG's and when on target, add short bursts of the 20mm's

You don't need much from the 20mm's to bring down enemy fighters but just to know you are going to get them on target.  I have found the Spit Vb to be quite effective in the Kuban once its ins and outs are learned (engine management, trim a little nose heavy).

 

If Ground Attacking, then I will push convergence out to 200m but it is pretty weak in this role given the lack of ordinance.

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I'll use the machine guns for deflections shots and longer ranges and the cannons if I'm up close.  I try not to use both at the same time but do sometimes if I'm kind of desperate or greedy.  To maximize your ammo you want to be accurate.  It only takes a quick burst of well placed cannon rounds to get a kill.

I do wish I could set the convergences separately.  How nice would it be to have 220 for the machine guns and 120 for the cannons?

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Posted (edited)

.303 for long range, cannons only around convergence or very sure deflection shots. Use the 303 to plink and scare enemies. Make them evade or do something stupid which allows you to get in range for the cannons. The 303 is your tool for psychological warfare, the hispanos are for sealing deals. Choose your convergence for the hispanos, the 303 don't need to be perfectly converged, too little firepower to warrant offsetting the big hammers.

Edited by Mauf
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12 half second bursts, then head home when the cannon are dry. Them hispano are proper killers, a half second on target is a real bad day for anything fighter sized. 

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1 hour ago, blitze said:

For me, what works with the Spit and most aircraft with wing mounted guns is to set convergence up at 120m and fill the sight with the enemy fighter.

 

Short bursts with the small caliber MG's and when on target, add short bursts of the 20mm's

You don't need much from the 20mm's to bring down enemy fighters but just to know you are going to get them on target.  I have found the Spit Vb to be quite effective in the Kuban once its ins and outs are learned (engine management, trim a little nose heavy).

 

That's a really good point and something I've been thinking about. I had convergence and gunsight to the RAF recommended 250 yards, yet every time I'm ready to fire I can tell the enemy is waay closer than that based on the wing tip distance. The lowest the gunsight goes to is 150 yards (140 metres) so I might try that.

 

51 minutes ago, Mauf said:

.303 for long range, cannons only around convergence or very sure deflection shots. Use the 303 to plink and scare enemies. Make them evade or do something stupid which allows you to get in range for the cannons. The 303 is your tool for psychological warfare, the hispanos are for sealing deals. Choose your convergence for the hispanos, the 303 don't need to be perfectly converged, too little firepower to warrant offsetting the big hammers.

Lol yes I have sprayed mg before to try and bring a higher enemy down to me.

 

35 minutes ago, Diggun said:

12 half second bursts, then head home when the cannon are dry. Them hispano are proper killers, a half second on target is a real bad day for anything fighter sized. 

I've been using 1/2 second bursts, but each 109 took about 4 or 5 bursts (definitely hit them). Probably not doing as much damage because my convergence was set to 230m and I was shooting extremely close. Hopefully if I bring my convergence in they'll do more damage.

 

Also do you guys go for similar close convergence on the Tempest? Or go a bit longer range because it's got more ammunition and different fighting style?

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I think the most important factor with the Spits is being in-plane when pulling the trigger, so you won't have either rounds speed by the target.

Not sure if using a short covergence-distance is helping.

 

Learning to shoot (takes lots of time!) at higher deflection-angles is probably the best bet. And so is closing in for the kill, instead of shooting the empty sky to pieces at 500 yards out.

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1 hour ago, Bremspropeller said:

I think the most important factor with the Spits is being in-plane when pulling the trigger, so you won't have either rounds speed by the target.

Not sure if using a short covergence-distance is helping.

 

Pulling the trigger - for me in the spit and VVS native aircraft is more like tapping the trigger LOL

Extreme ammo conservation but it allows for a few kills per sortie if I am lucky.

 

1 hour ago, Bremspropeller said:

Learning to shoot (takes lots of time!) at higher deflection-angles is probably the best bet. And so is closing in for the kill, instead of shooting the empty sky to pieces at 500 yards out.

 

Yeah - at 500meters or even worse, yards - there isn't much to shoot at.  If you have your mg's in the nose, then a short burst at distance to panic the target might be something but with wing mounted mg's - waste of ammo and time.

 

Only issue I had earlier on with up close and personal shooting was with bits of the target plane falling off and ruining my prop or worse.  Not as bad now with the updated damage models - bits still come off but less easily and easier to dodge.🥳

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230m is a good distance I think for convergence. Do remember that the gunsight in the VB is adjustable, but uses Imperial measurements so setting that to 251 yards give you 230m, and use 33ft for Luftie fighters wingspan (109 is a wee bit smaller but makes no odds, and seeing an honest to goodness Luftie bomber online is is rarer than I like my steaks cooked). It doesn't have the fancy prediction functionality of the later sight, but this will ensure that you can judge when you will be firing at convergence, and that is the key to hitting them hard. 

 

I do love the Vb, so pleasant to fly, plus when you finally get your hands on an IXe it feels like you've got ammo for days! 

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Posted (edited)

In the Vb, I set the convergence at 200 meters. I use the .303s at 200m or closer to get the right angle with short bursts. I have my trigger set up with 2 stages and when I am getting hits in a vital area like cockpit, engine or wing root with the MGs, I pull the trigger all the way and give them a dose of the 20mm. A couple of rounds usually does it. 

 

If I am closer than 200 meters, which I prefer, I offset my aim and use the guns from one wing to set my aim with short bursts. The other guns will be missing to one side, but it doesn’t matter. If I am really close, I will aim by guessing because the guns are about 6 feet away. In that case, I try to shove my wing in their cockpit and pull the trigger and it usually results in an instant kill.

 

I think I have gotten as many as 6 kills in a mission before, but the cannon rounds will be gone after 4 max. I have gotten kills with just the .303s but it takes hitting the cockpit at convergence range.

 

When I say short bursts, I mean only tapping the trigger.

 

 

Edited by Jaegermeister
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Thanks guys, some things to try out.

 

2 hours ago, blitze said:

Only issue I had earlier on with up close and personal shooting was with bits of the target plane falling off and ruining my prop or worse.  Not as bad now with the updated damage models - bits still come off but less easily and easier to dodge.🥳

 

Yeah I've been killed by the enemies explosion before, loud noise then I was dead

 

56 minutes ago, Jaegermeister said:

In the Vb, I set the convergence at 200 meters. I use the .303s at 200m or closer to get the right angle with short bursts. I have my trigger set up with 2 stages and when I am getting hits in a vital area like cockpit, engine or wing root with the MGs, I pull the trigger all the way and give them a dose of the 20mm. A couple of rounds usually does it. 

 

I think I have gotten as many as 6 kills in a mission before, but the cannon rounds will be gone after 4 max. I have gotten kills with just the .303s but it takes hitting the cockpit at convergence range.

 

When I say short bursts, I mean only tapping the trigger.

 

Curious which stick are you using with the dual-stage? I recently switched my VKB over to the Kosmosima grip but the dual-stage seems clunky.. I really need to give it a good squeeze after holding down the initial stage in order to feel the difference between them which precludes any "tapping" on the trigger. It also throws off my aim a bit if I attack the trigger too aggressively.

So I'm still using 2 separate buttons, 1 button for MG only, and 1st stage trigger for MG+Cannon with nothing on the 2nd stage.

 

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Posted (edited)

Progress, switched to 140m convergence and they actually die on a burst now - Thanks for the tips!

Progress.PNG

Edited by Dan_Taipan
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1 hour ago, Dan_Taipan said:

Curious which stick are you using with the dual-stage? I recently switched my VKB over to the Kosmosima grip but the dual-stage seems clunky.. I really need to give it a good squeeze after holding down the initial stage in order to feel the difference between them which precludes any "tapping" on the trigger. It also throws off my aim a bit if I attack the trigger too aggressively.

So I'm still using 2 separate buttons, 1 button for MG only, and 1st stage trigger for MG+Cannon with nothing on the 2nd stage.

 

I have a Thrustmaster Warthog. The index finger trigger is set to MGs on the 1st stage and all guns on the 2nd. By tapping the trigger I am describing a very brief gentle squeeze. Maybe a 1/4 to 1/2 second burst. I don't actually "tap" it. There is a good bit of travel between the 1st and second stage, but I don't remember feeling any actual resistance like on a 2 stage pistol trigger.

 

I have trouble with a separate button for cannons requiring changing hand position slightly, and that throws my off aim. I would rather use the MG ammo than miss with the cannons on the Vb.

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46 minutes ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

I have a Thrustmaster Warthog. The index finger trigger is set to MGs on the 1st stage and all guns on the 2nd. By tapping the trigger I am describing a very brief gentle squeeze. Maybe a 1/4 to 1/2 second burst. I don't actually "tap" it. There is a good bit of travel between the 1st and second stage, but I don't remember feeling any actual resistance like on a 2 stage pistol trigger.

 

I have trouble with a separate button for cannons requiring changing hand position slightly, and that throws my off aim. I would rather use the MG ammo than miss with the cannons on the Vb.

I use the index trigger for machine guns, and the paddle trigger for full fire. 

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45 minutes ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

I have a Thrustmaster Warthog. The index finger trigger is set to MGs on the 1st stage and all guns on the 2nd. By tapping the trigger I am describing a very brief gentle squeeze. Maybe a 1/4 to 1/2 second burst. I don't actually "tap" it. There is a good bit of travel between the 1st and second stage, but I don't remember feeling any actual resistance like on a 2 stage pistol trigger.

 

I have trouble with a separate button for cannons requiring changing hand position slightly, and that throws my off aim. I would rather use the MG ammo than miss with the cannons on the Vb.

I set my MGs on a thumb trigger and my cannons on the index for this very reason.  Harass and snapshot with the MGs with my hand loose on the stick until I get in close, and then the hand position changes for fine control with the index finger at the ready.

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I used to have the Warthog, quite a good trigger.

 

VKB has a mini trigger as well, so I can use 2 fingers on 2 triggers at once if I want or back and forth.

I've re-assigned the dual stage and will keep flying with it see if I like it, but at the same time I can keep the mini-trigger assigned and use it as needed.

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