Ai Cold Start Start Rules

[PatrickAWlson]

The AI will taxi and take off, but sometimes they don't.  Sometimes they do not start their engines.  Sometimes they do not taxi.  Sometimes they crash into each other on the taxiways.   Are the rules and proper procedures well documented?  I want to understand the rules in detail to allow debugging of complaints when things go wrong.

[Thad]

Salutations,

 

I don't think Airfields start out with functioning or active taxiway routes. The mission programmer as to activate, input or adjust them.

 

Perhaps taxiways are activated when the airfield is made a Linked Entity. Or not. If I make a mission without setting up the taxi routes the craft will land and stop on the runway only.

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Thad

[JG7_X-Man]

Oh dude! This has caused 101 headaches!

 

This setup seems to work the best IMHO

 

 

These are the must haves to get the basic functionality, then you can tweak from here

 

1. The lead aircraft is closest to the active runway (for this 4 ship flight) 

2. The Fake Airfield object "USAAF Florennes NE" is very close to the parking area and oriented in the same direction as the active runway (for this flight)

3. Concert taxi ways is easier on AI than dirt and grass taxi ways

4. The taxi nodes seem to affect AI taxi speed but too few or too many cases issues like (random spinning and loss of orientation)

5. Round the curves with nodes but not too close to keep them on center line

6. Taxi paths that are 90° angles work very well in some instances

7. AI tend to not like taxi paths that run parallel to the takeoff/landing path (during taxi, AI has a tendency to veer off course directly to the takeoff VPP)

8. Note how close the parking area is the active runway.

9. AI skill may have a role to play as well (but not tested fully)

 

Hope this help and we appreciate your work!

To add - This works best for open area airfields

 

With Command Takeoff set to "No taxi Takeoff"

 

Note, the single node must be in the same heading as the VPP path or the leader will incorrectly line up and takeoff - this might be just user error but this setup works for me.

[Murleen]

Good list! I know a number of the taxi paths in PWCG violate #1 - I want to add some code that reverses the order of the parked planes in these cases to fix it, but I haven't figured it out in detail yet.

 

A few more rules I've worked out:

• If a taxi point is closer to the takeoff VPP than it is to the next taxi point, the planes will skip the rest of the taxi path and go straight to the runway (probably responsible for #7 above)
• I find it's best to have the final taxi point in line with the runway, as otherwise bombers get stuck taxiing on to the runway for ages
• Similarly, don't have the last point too close to the takeoff VPP or planes take a long time to get into position - I think I go for at least 60m.

[JimTM]

In addition to the information above, have a look at this post I did. It's best to go through the whole post, particularity where BlackSix chimes in. I haven't tested all this for quite awhile.

[Gambit21]

Please note, that the taxi problems that I reported in beta have not to my knowledge been addressed as of yet.

There are a few taxi behaviors that are tied into the same 'under the hood' logic, including aircraft taxiing into each other on the taxi way.

According to the Devs both problems (not taxiing/collisions) are related to the same issue.

 

The taxi problem does not happen in all cases, it's situational depending on where the aircraft and taxi path is placed.

[JG7_X-Man]

OMG! Tempests taxi so slow!!!

[JG7_X-Man]

 

This setup also works!

[PatrickAWlson]

Is it possible (or even a good idea) to limit the number of taxiways.  On PWCG runways we generally have takeoff in one direction or the other.  Have just one single route with one set of start points for each eventual takeoff location, thereby limiting the possibility of error.

[Gambit21]

If there’s an opportunity to keep it simple, take it. Always best where these things are concerned IME. Minimizes bug hunting later.

[JG7_X-Man]

5 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

Is it possible (or even a good idea) to limit the number of taxiways.  On PWCG runways we generally have takeoff in one direction or the other.  Have just one single route with one set of start points for each eventual takeoff location, thereby limiting the possibility of error.

 

Totally agree!

 

The idea of multiple runways is just when a randomization of the spawn group is used. As an example, with four possible runways and one for each possible spawn groups, only one of the four will groups will spawn and only use one of the four runways at mission being. This simply generates some randomness and sense of variety to an active airfield in single player. I come from the FSX/P3D world and love active airports with realistic AI liveries that fly real world routes and time tables. 

 

In PWCG your idea of a single runway for an all AI flight is ideal. However, having two or more flights using the same runway has cased some issues in my testing. flights never taxi out in sequence and thus get co-mingled on the runway and never start their taxi run.

[PatrickAWlson]

1 hour ago, JG7_X-Man said:

 

Totally agree!

 

The idea of multiple runways is just when a randomization of the spawn group is used. As an example, with four possible runways and one for each possible spawn groups, only one of the four will groups will spawn and only use one of the four runways at mission being. This simply generates some randomness and sense of variety to an active airfield in single player. I come from the FSX/P3D world and love active airports with realistic AI liveries that fly real world routes and time tables. 

 

In PWCG your idea of a single runway for an all AI flight is ideal. However, having two or more flights using the same runway has cased some issues in my testing. flights never taxi out in sequence and thus get co-mingled on the runway and never start their taxi run.

 

Only player flights take off, so the scope is only one to several (for coop) flights.  AI flights are all air start.  I think players would enjoy randomization but not at the cost of not working  .  When faced with a complex problem the best answer is usually to get the simplest solution working first and then build on it.  I was hoping to define what the simplest solution might be.

 

[Gambit21]

If it's any help, I have no issues placing 2 airfield objects/taxi paths at airbases with multiple/crossing runways.

What I try and stay away from is getting more complex than this and activating/deactivating airfield objects in order to facilitate different taxi paths in overlapping space etc. if that makes any sense.

[Wulfkai]

As a possible workaround until a more solid solution becomes available would it be possible to add the airstart to the airfield that we would takeoff from in our bombers or make it movable in the briefing map? Right now it is awefully close to target from a bombers perspective
 

thanks

[PatrickAWlson]

Reviving. Still trying to understand why this is so hit and miss.  Read through this thread and the other linked earlier.  

 

I have two airfields: Nikolskoye and Ruza on the Moscow map.  Nikolskoye works, Ruza does not. 

 

On Ruza the player's plane starts the engine, lets it run for awhile, then stops it.  The AI flight leader never starts his engine.

Mission attached.Cold Start 1941-11-02.zip

 

Given advice above about the possibility of two runways causing confusion I reduced the number of defined runways to 1 per airfield.

 

An analysis of the two airfield shows the following:

 

Nikolskoye parked to taxi initial distance: 53
Nikolskoye taxi distance 1: 69
Nikolskoye taxi distance 2: 68
Nikolskoye taxi distance 3: 47

 

Ruza parked to taxi initial distance: 66
Ruza taxi distance 1: 59
Ruza taxi distance 2: 82

 

So we are not asking the planes to go further at Ruza.  

 

So what can we say about the rules?  I really need "if you do a, b, and c within these parameters cold start works".  I'm writing software so this process and the boundaries for each step of it has to be able to be defined procedurally.

Edited November 17, 2020 by PatrickAWlson

[JG7_X-Man]

@PatrickAWlson So it was very hard to follow what you are doing with all the object links . Is there any way you can make a simple mission of what what you are trying to do?