Yak-9 elevator response

[ZachariasX]

Can someone tell me why the Yak-1 to -7 have a very responsive elevator control and the Yak-9 has an elevator that makes the 109 laugh?

[Guest deleted@134347]

yak-9 elevator response is indeed much shallower than that of the 109's. You must use the elevator trim for any kind of serious g-pulling maneuvers.

[216th_Jordan]

Yak-9T or regular Yak-9? The Yak-9T uses a copycat of the 109 flight stick and I think this is why it behaves so differently.

[ZachariasX]

12 minutes ago, 216th_Jordan said:

Yak-9T or regular Yak-9? The Yak-9T uses a copycat of the 109 flight stick and I think this is why it behaves so differently.

Yak9T. But the stick is about the same lenght? I mean torque forces should be indentical at the same lenght?

[216th_Jordan]

1 hour ago, ZachariasX said:

Yak9T. But the stick is about the same lenght? I mean torque forces should be indentical at the same lenght?

 

I was wondering the same. But evem for same length the translation of forces does not have to be the same.

[=X51=VC_]

My understanding is that the Yak-9 had a redesigned wing. It's possible they re-balanced all the controls as part of the aerodynamic refinements. Heavy elevator forces are normally produced deliberately to avoid airframe overstress conditions, and this is done by changing the mass an aerodynamic balance of the elevator itself more than chaning the stick.

Edited July 15, 2020 by =X51=VC_

[ZachariasX]

1 hour ago, =X51=VC_ said:

It's possible they re-balanced all the controls as part of the aerodynamic refinements.

They made a colibry a rubber cow then. Why put in a steel wing spar when you restrict the aircraft to Cessna g tolerances?

[Lusekofte]

I have not flown yak that much. But flown the yak 9 T a bit. I really like it and can easily take sown all ai planes

[Avimimus]

Gee... guys, if I know you'd complained so much about it - I'd have pre-ordered one! You've not got me seriously interested in it.

[WheelwrightPL]

As German planes aficionado, I learned to appreciate Yak-9T for its manoeuvrability, all-around visibility and ruggedness. I also like a unique challenge of firing its 37mm gun (which BTW has a much larger cartridge and muzzle velocity compared to an underwhelming potato launcher on a P-39). Still, it is not easy to accurately hit anything fighter-sized. Also the designers had to push the cockpit back to accommodate this monstrous gun, which I think improved the look: 

[=X51=VC_]

6 minutes ago, WheelwrightPL said:

 Also the designers had to push the cockpit back to accommodate this monstrous gun, which I think improved the look: 

 

Absolutely agree with you here. Yaks look pretty good anyway, but they look extra good like that!

[ZachariasX]

10 hours ago, Avimimus said:

Gee... guys, if I know you'd complained so much about it - I'd have pre-ordered one! You've not got me seriously interested in it.

I'm not complaining at all. The plane is fun. I'm just wondering WHY there can be such a marked difference in handling for the Yak-9T. The plane as such is fun and shooting things with high caliber is fun too. I certainly don't regret buying it.

[Diggun]

I've pulled 8g in the - 9 before, I assume it's a deliberate weakening of elevator response due to the fact that you can reach some actual decent speeds in the - 9 and - t before you start leaving control surfaces behind you, unlike earlier models. I love them, but do lawndart not infrequently. My other main ride is a spit, and it's a little jarring moving between the two! 

[Guest deleted@134347]

I enjoy 9T thoroughly because of this shallow elevator response. In general with vvs planes it's pretty easy to induce a blackout compared to 109 (except maybe mig3). The 9T levels the field where it doesn't matter how much I pull on the stick it goes in to a nice smooth turn and follows the 109 without problems. To get a sharper turn all I have to do is trim the stabilizer with a rotary axis, which is a lot more forgiving and precise and a lot easier to control/expect the oncoming g-lock.

[Diggun]

What I'd love to know is how those 109s and 190s stay on my tail and pull lead and shoot at me despite my blacking out and the fact that I should be turning inside them. 

[Mollotin]

18 minutes ago, Diggun said:

What I'd love to know is how those 109s and 190s stay on my tail and pull lead and shoot at me despite my blacking out and the fact that I should be turning inside them. 

 

i do following: throttle zero, start turning same time as the yak ahead and immediately pulling lead. this means no matter what, i get at least one firing solution cause our turn circles have different central points. If my speed is lower then the enemy i can pull tighter turn while experiencing same or less G. therefore being able to follow them. they might gain 10 or 50 meters distance if i am much slower but it really doesnt matter as i will still be withing 200 meters.

[Diggun]

@Mollotin

 

Thank you. This makes complete sense. I need to chop throttle more and turn less predictably. 

[TAIPAN_]

4 hours ago, Mollotin said:

 

i do following: throttle zero, start turning same time as the yak ahead and immediately pulling lead. this means no matter what, i get at least one firing solution cause our turn circles have different central points. If my speed is lower then the enemy i can pull tighter turn while experiencing same or less G. therefore being able to follow them. they might gain 10 or 50 meters distance if i am much slower but it really doesnt matter as i will still be withing 200 meters.

 

That's pretty much what I figured as well, when I'm chasing a 109 in the Yak or Spit and he does a split-S under me he doesn't black out. But if I follow him I will black out.

The reason is his speed is lower, or he has less energy. Those leading edge slats must be fun on the 109s they seem to do quite well at low speeds unlike the Focke Wulf

 

I never had issues with the elevator response on the Yak 9 - I've rarely ever needed to pull full deflection, and lighter movement of the stick is always better for energy retention. Occasionally if on edge of stall it can be useful to have more elevator auth, but in normal energy fights there's plenty to get the movement you need.. just have to pull a bit harder than other planes.

 

I lost my online virginity in the Yak 9T taking out 2x109s, fun with the 37mm love this plane. Probably not the best gun for fighter vs fighter but certainly is a laugh. I want to spend some time in the regular Yak 9 to see how it compares to the 1b, I think the armament looks the same.

[RIPSkyKingTasmanaut]

On 7/17/2020 at 7:14 AM, Mollotin said:

 

i do following: throttle zero, start turning same time as the yak ahead and immediately pulling lead. this means no matter what, i get at least one firing solution cause our turn circles have different central points. If my speed is lower then the enemy i can pull tighter turn while experiencing same or less G. therefore being able to follow them. they might gain 10 or 50 meters distance if i am much slower but it really doesnt matter as i will still be withing 200 meters.

SHHHH! This is the actual secret of how to gain angles and firing solutions in any plane... Now others know...

[=X51=VC_]

So your "secret tactic" is to dump all your energy and hope you secure the kill quickly? ?

[BlitzPig_EL]

Remember, this is still just a video game, and gamerz will game.

 

Be sure.

[=X51=VC_]

2 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Remember, this is still just a video game, and gamerz will game.

 

Be sure.

 

Fine to an extent, but there's the perfectly good technique of cutting their turn and taking a deflection shot as they cross your nose, which achieves exactly the same thing with very little G load or energy cost. OK this is tough to pull off in a 109 because its ailerons feel like they're in treacle at any useful attack speed, but it's still better than making yourself a sitting duck for the sake of a cheap shot.

Edited July 18, 2020 by =X51=VC_

[Mollotin]

On 7/18/2020 at 9:32 PM, =X51=VC_ said:

 

Fine to an extent, but there's the perfectly good technique of cutting their turn and taking a deflection shot as they cross your nose, which achieves exactly the same thing with very little G load or energy cost. OK this is tough to pull off in a 109 because its ailerons feel like they're in treacle at any useful attack speed, but it's still better than making yourself a sitting duck for the sake of a cheap shot.

True, but its ten times harder (for me at least) to hit that kind of a deflection shot. And of course i only tend to cut throttle and pull lead if we already have similar energy states, at that point, i just want to end the fight quickly, so some energy loss is better than fight continuining for minutes.