P-47

[TWC_Ace]

So late P47 isnt a joke anymore?

[CountZero]

1 hour ago, =VARP=Tvrdi said:

So late P47 isnt a joke anymore?

did it get 20mm insted usless.50 ? no

did it get rid of arcade time limits for engines ? no

so yes its same as before just now you can get few kmh more if you have 150oct fuel.

Not worth taking when you have Spitfire IX, Tempest V with 1h combat timers and real guns, even P-38 with its timers atleast have 1 real gun... and only differance now is you cant turn like zero before update when drop flaps and you get out of dives mutch harder, so thats good.

 

So americans build engine that have 5min timer, but 7min supply of water for it, they could not build engine that can last full 7min ? lol so real engine just brakes if you use it for 6 min looking how its in game kkkk and on top bug with techchat messages that tell you when timers expired or recharged dont showing up when techchat realisam setting is turn on is still not fixed.

Edited July 9, 2020 by CountZero

[mattebubben]

45 minutes ago, CountZero said:

did it get 20mm insted usless.50 ? no

did it get rid of arcade time limits for engines ? no

so yes its same as before just now you can get few kmh more if you have 150oct fuel.

Not worth taking when you have Spitfire IX, Tempest V with 1h combat timers and real guns, even P-38 with its timers atleast have 1 real gun... and only differance now is you cant turn like zero before update when drop flaps and you get out of dives mutch harder, so thats good.

 

So americans build engine that have 5min timer, but 7min supply of water for it, they could not build engine that can last full 7min ? lol so real engine just brakes if you use it for 6 min looking how its in game kkkk and on top bug with techchat messages that tell you when timers expired or recharged dont showing up when techchat realisam setting is turn on is still not fixed.

 

150 octane impacts all engine modes though.

Continous power in the 47 with 150 octane is up around 50 inches of manifold which gives it much higher cruise speeds and climb rate.

Combat power (15 mintes) with 150 octane is 65 inches of manifold so you can maintain higher speeds for a significant period of time.

And then you have the Wep at 70 inches MP which gives you an extra 200hp as compared to wep with 100/130 grade fuel further boosting performance.

 

I find that the P-47 with 150 is a great preformer and i will confidently take on any german prop plane with 150 octane (especially in the D-22 that thing is a beast).

 

And im having no issues with the guns.

I run it at 340 meters convergence and usually a short burst is enough to secure a kill.

 

And yes the way the timers work are not perfect but that is true across the board and not something unique for the P-47

(Though i do wish you could regen WEP time with time spent in combat mode like in the German fighters)

 

So i find the P-47 (D-22 especially) is highly competitive with 150 octane.

Edited July 9, 2020 by mattebubben

[CountZero]

5 hours ago, mattebubben said:

 

150 octane impacts all engine modes though.

Continous power in the 47 with 150 octane is up around 50 inches of manifold which gives it much higher cruise speeds and climb rate.

Combat power (15 mintes) with 150 octane is 65 inches of manifold so you can maintain higher speeds for a significant period of time.

And then you have the Wep at 70 inches MP which gives you an extra 200hp as compared to wep with 100/130 grade fuel further boosting performance.

 

I find that the P-47 with 150 is a great preformer and i will confidently take on any german prop plane with 150 octane (especially in the D-22 that thing is a beast).

 

And im having no issues with the guns.

I run it at 340 meters convergence and usually a short burst is enough to secure a kill.

 

And yes the way the timers work are not perfect but that is true across the board and not something unique for the P-47

(Though i do wish you could regen WEP time with time spent in combat mode like in the German fighters)

 

So i find the P-47 (D-22 especially) is highly competitive with 150 octane.

On continous it gives you only around 10kmh more then normal, on combat yes its mutch bigger but you have it only 15min AND recharg is 30min so you cant use it to climb on start for example as you need to wait and recharg AND if you use WEP it drains your combat also so you have to save it for WEP... its a mess, good old Spit9, Tempest you get 1h no worry combat timer , have to worry only about emergancy 5min, and with still not working techchat messages when server set it ON, why bather with american engine mess. 

Tipical mission is what 45-1h, look at SP missions or scripted campaigns they all aim for short missions, so why have such long recharges ? where do they even get historicly that P-47 needs to wait 30min after it flys on combat settings for 15min, what book has that in it?  and if its true should that not be adjusted to game conditions of not flying 8h+ missions , whats 30 min recharg wait after take off climb for that long mission, nothing, but in game thats whole mission, if 5/ 15 min timers are so strickt for game sake, then recharges should not be... and adjusted also.

 

Nice first look at D-22:

 

Edited July 9, 2020 by CountZero

[mattebubben]

Just a short update and response to this concerning the engine timers.

Have been flying the P-47 a lot recently and after i saw this post

I decided to play around a little and test it out. (This was done in the D-28 due to the Additional water)

 

and using 150 octane not only can you maintain 65 inches (without water) for long periods when using a lower RPM setting like 2550RPM

(30 minutes according to goteed and i just spent atleast 25-30 minutes constantly cycling between Wep with 70MP+2700-2550RPM and Combat 65Mp and 2550 RPM and only after almost 30 minutes did i the combat timer run out after i spent a few minutes at 65 MP and 2700RPM just to test it)

 

and since 2550 RPM gives you more speed in level flight then 2700 RPM this is not an issue.

(And gives you a faster 30 min combat cruise speed then most German fighters with only the D-9 Being faster at combat power)

 

but it also allows you to regen WEP time! similar to the German fighters!

Its possible to go to 70 inches MP (and either 2700 RPM or lower) untill you reach the 5 minute limit,

and at that point turn off water injection and drop back to 65 inches mp and 2550 RPM and at which point the WEP time will start to regen!

And its possible to keep this cycle between wep and combat power untill you run out of water. (Or fuel as its thirsty at these power settings)

 

Dont think ever i tested this before the patch (only listened to people who said it was not possible to do this)

but it works in a similar same way as on the German fighters!

 

Which is a huge + in terms of performance for the P-47 as you no longer have to be as scared in using Combat or WEP since as long as you keep the engine temps within Norm you can go back and forth between the two for a long time!

 

And this is also a thing that actually gives the D-28 a significant edge over the D-22.

As the D-22 will run out of Water after 5-7 minutes at wep (1.5 cycles) while with the D-28 yo get 2-3 cycles at full Wep.

 

So while the D-22 is still faster at the same Power settings the D-28 with its additional water supply can cycle between wep and combat many more times then the D-22 can.

Edited July 12, 2020 by mattebubben

[Talon_]

2 hours ago, mattebubben said:

Just a short update and response to this concerning the engine timers.

Have been flying the P-47 a lot recently and after i saw this post

I decided to play around a little and test it out. (This was done in the D-28 due to the Additional water)

 

and using 150 octane not only can you maintain 65 inches (without water) for long periods when using a lower RPM setting like 2550RPM

(30 minutes according to goteed and i just spent atleast 30-35 minutes constantly cycling between Wep with 70MP+2700-2550RPM and Combat 65Mp and 2550 RPM and only after 30-35 minutes did i run out after i spent a few minutes at 65 MP and 2700RPM just to test it)

 

and since 2550 RPM gives you more speed in level flight then 2700 RPM this is not an issue.

(And gives you a faster 30 min combat cruise speed then most German fighters with only the D-9 Being faster at combat power)

 

but it also allows you to regen WEP time! like on the German fighters!

Its possible to go to 70 inches MP (and either 2700 RPM or lower) untill you reach the 5 minute limit,

and at that point turn off water injection and drop back to 65 inches mp and 2550 RPM and at which point the WEP time will start to regen!

And its possible to keep this scycle between wep and combat power untill you run out of water. (Or fuel as its thirsty at these power settings)

 

Dont think ever i tested this before the patch (only listened to people who said it was not possible to do this)

but it works in the same way as on the German fighters!

 

Which is a huge + in terms of performance for the P-47 as you no longer have to be as scared in using Combat or WEP since as long as you keep the engine temps within Norm you can go back and forth between the two for a long time!

 

And this is also a thing that actually gives the D-28 a significant edge over the D-22.

As the D-22 will run out of Water after 5-7 minutes at wep (1.5 cycles) while with the D-28 yo get 2-3 cycles at full Wep.

 

So while the D-22 is still faster the D-28 with its additional water supply can cycle between wep and combat many more times then the D-22 can.

 

This is pretty game changing for the Jug, doubly so now that it's the fastest plane in the game at some altitudes.

[HR_Zunzun]

9 hours ago, Talon_ said:

 

This is pretty game changing for the Jug, doubly so now that it's the fastest plane in the game at some altitudes.

Indeed. I have to try it my self.

[CountZero]

So to check if anything changed i try QM airstart at 2000m D-28 with 150oct mod, all max bost on( time in spec is set for 2700rpm and all max so i use that to be sure nothing changed):

Turned on techchat in relaisam and Instrument panel so i can see buged messages that should work with only techchat option on but still dont work,

after 5min message that bost expired shows up (as specs say it should) i turn boost off, at 15min from start message that bost recovered show up ( so same as before recovery on P-47 is 2xtime of safe use of boost, it took 10min it would take 10min also if i fly on 0 power or combat or continuous its always same 2x use) and at same time message that combat expired show up ( as specs say 15min). All works same as before, if i turn boost on now after i see that combat expired it will last 5min and my engine will brake sometime there as combat timer expired and is in that random time now that can be extra 1s or 7,5min, and as expected my engine broke at 20min from start.
Works same as before update, and same as without 150 oct mode or 150oct, even before boost recovered at combat like for any airplane in game any emergancy/boost mod recovers on combat or continuous same way always same time defined to that engine, sometimes 1x 2x 3x or even more for some earlyer airplanes.
BUT on P-47 and other american airplanes Boost 5 min EAT that 5min from your combat 15 min, in bobp 109 10min emergancy dont eat your combat 10min and recovery of emergancs or combat on 109 is 1x used time.

So nothing changed, you could play with engine settings same as before use less rpm or less MP ( as you go up alt timers expand as your not on same MP when on max) BUT as you have game with bugged techchat messages that should inform you when time expired or recharged not working even when server have techchat ON, you cant safly use that play with lover rpms or MP and so on as your timers are no longer 5min or 15min like on specs when you use settings spec time exactly work on.

 

 

Also benefits of 2550rpm work same as before, up to 7km, then you can turn off auto rpm and go to up to 3000rpm for few min and gain more speed, max was 732kmh at 8000m, works same as before without 150oct but then you do around 720kmh at 8km.

With D-22 up to 6km you se benefit of 2550rpm on yur speed and you can do 736kmh like that, but as you cant turn off auto rpm on D-22 , abow that alt you dont get benefit of manualy going to around 3000rpm like on D-28( i just check 1k intervals as i see nothing changed from how it behaved bfore updates). On deck fastes i see 150oct D-22 could go was 617kmh at end of timer.

Edited July 11, 2020 by CountZero

[CUJO_1970]

5 hours ago, CountZero said:

 On deck fastes i see 150oct D-22 could go was 617kmh at end of timer.

 

Wait, what? You are getting 617kmh on the deck? That's nearly 383 mph.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

1 hour ago, CUJO_1970 said:

 

Wait, what? You are getting 617kmh on the deck? That's nearly 383 mph.

You can reach these speeds by having a clean plane, the engine overboosted to 73" (would be in between 2900-2950 HP at auto rich and 2700 RPM), increasing mixture to full rich and decreasing RPM to 2600, which in theory increases the power more, but don't know to which extent in precise numbers.

Edited July 12, 2020 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[mattebubben]

14 hours ago, CountZero said:

So to check if anything changed i try QM airstart at 2000m D-28 with 150oct mod, all max bost on( time in spec is set for 2700rpm and all max so i use that to be sure nothing changed):

Turned on techchat in relaisam and Instrument panel so i can see buged messages that should work with only techchat option on but still dont work,

after 5min message that bost expired shows up (as specs say it should) i turn boost off, at 15min from start message that bost recovered show up ( so same as before recovery on P-47 is 2xtime of safe use of boost, it took 10min it would take 10min also if i fly on 0 power or combat or continuous its always same 2x use) and at same time message that combat expired show up ( as specs say 15min). All works same as before, if i turn boost on now after i see that combat expired it will last 5min and my engine will brake sometime there as combat timer expired and is in that random time now that can be extra 1s or 7,5min, and as expected my engine broke at 20min from start.
Works same as before update, and same as without 150 oct mode or 150oct, even before boost recovered at combat like for any airplane in game any emergancy/boost mod recovers on combat or continuous same way always same time defined to that engine, sometimes 1x 2x 3x or even more for some earlyer airplanes.
BUT on P-47 and other american airplanes Boost 5 min EAT that 5min from your combat 15 min, in bobp 109 10min emergancy dont eat your combat 10min and recovery of emergancs or combat on 109 is 1x used time.

So nothing changed, you could play with engine settings same as before use less rpm or less MP ( as you go up alt timers expand as your not on same MP when on max) BUT as you have game with bugged techchat messages that should inform you when time expired or recharged not working even when server have techchat ON, you cant safly use that play with lover rpms or MP and so on as your timers are no longer 5min or 15min like on specs when you use settings spec time exactly work on.

 

 

Also benefits of 2550rpm work same as before, up to 7km, then you can turn off auto rpm and go to up to 3000rpm for few min and gain more speed, max was 732kmh at 8000m, works same as before without 150oct but then you do around 720kmh at 8km.

With D-22 up to 6km you se benefit of 2550rpm on yur speed and you can do 736kmh like that, but as you cant turn off auto rpm on D-22 , abow that alt you dont get benefit of manualy going to around 3000rpm like on D-28( i just check 1k intervals as i see nothing changed from how it behaved bfore updates). On deck fastes i see 150oct D-22 could go was 617kmh at end of timer.

 

Yes it works the same in that time in Wep still takes time from the combat timer and it takes 2x to recharge WEP time.

 

BUT!

And this is the point and the thing is new.

At 65 inches MP and 2550RPM you get 30 minutes at combat power (with better level flight performance then 2700 rpm and only slightly worse performance overall)

And the reason this makes a huge difference is that at full combat with 2700RPM you have 15 minutes so in that case after 5 minutes of wep you dont have 10 min left in max combat to recharge it thus you runt out of combat power after 12-13 minutes (5 min in boost 7-8 in Combat)

 

But now with 150 octane and 2550RPM you do!

I have not done a huge amount of tests

(Just a few flights playing around with it to see what it can do)

but i can spend 26-28 minutes going between 70 inches and 2700RPM with boost and 65 inches MP and 2550 RPM untill i run out of both combat and wep time.

(and an extra 10-15 minutes spent in combat/boost is a gamechanger for the P-47)

 

With the D-22 i run out of water after 1.5 cycles (4-5 min wep 5min recharge then another 1-2 min in wep untill water dries out) and at that point i still have another 16 minutes in combat power at 2550 RPM!

 

but with the D-28 you have much more water so you can keep the cycles up longer (which results in running out of both timers combat at around 26-27 minutes due to more time spent in wep).

 

But the reason why this is a game changer is

N.1.

This is something you could not do before since without 150 octane there is no combat power setting that (that gave you a noticeable performance boost over continous power)

since doing 52 inches of MP (Max combat without 150 octane) and 2550 RPM still only gives you 15 minutes.

 

Edit: I was incorrect here you will get 30 minutes at 52 inches and 2550 RPM but you will get far less time if you combine it with boost as compared to 150 octane

(Cycling between Boost and 52 inches 2550 RPM gives you 16 minutes in the D-28 and 18 minutes in D-22 vs 26 minutes and 28 minutes when using 150 octane and 65 inches 2550)

 

And

N.2

Realistically you will never have to spend over 25 minutes in Wep and combat

(Since it has a very high fuel consumption and max continous with 150 octane already gives decent cruise speeds and climbing preformance)

 

so a more realistic flight will be 2-3 min spend in boost 3-5 min spent at combat power during an engagement

(using 2550RPM in level flight with the ability to go to 2700 if you need the extra climb performance)

followed by time spent in continous looking for the next target allowing it to regen.

With the added ability to sprint at high speed over longer distances using 65 inches MP at 2550RPM (If you need to get to a location quickly or running back to base etc).

 

And in a mixed flight where you use Boost at Max power, Combat at 2550  continous power then you should never run out of combat power untill you run out of water,

because if you need more then 25 minutes of constant Combat / boost power then you are doing something wrong.

 

So yes the timers do not work exactly as in the German airplanes.

BUT

 

They allow you to use it in the same way as you can spend 25+ minutes in Boost + Combat power settings

and i dont think i have ever had a flight in a German fighter where i have spent over 20 minutes constantly at combat power or WEP

(And i have been playing this game since 2014),

So this gives the Thunderbolt the same exact ability

(And as mentioned at 65 MP and 2550RPM it had a comparable top speed to a K4 at combat power with the D-9 being the only German prop with a higher top speed in combat mode).

 

I understand that you hate the way the game models US aircraft (Using the actual Manuals and Documents)

and that you wish it worked differently. (And partially i can agree that the Hard limits are not perfect)

 

But that does not mean you have to ignore the new way it can be used now and how much of an improvement it is for the P-47D.

 

So please test it again but using 2550RPM and 65 inches MP instead of just ignoring it by using 2700RPM and then saying that what i posted does not work...

 

Edit:

And in Regards to the lack of warnings when timers run out.

 

You can still safely use these engine settings without the Techchat warnings just dont use WEP for 5 minutes in a row just because you have 5 minutes.

 

Use the cockpit clock for reference (and keep track of how many minutes pass using it)

and try to use boost in short burst when you need it (and not just because you can)

 

And you will also get a short warning when out of timer before engine damage (Rpms will start fluctuate giving you a few seconds to throttle back).

So dont rely on just the Techchat warnings insted look at the RPM,MP and Temp gauges and you should be fine.

Edited July 12, 2020 by mattebubben

[CountZero]

3 hours ago, mattebubben said:

 

Yes it works the same in that time in Wep still takes time from the combat timer and it takes 2x to recharge WEP time.

 

BUT!

And this is the point and the thing is new.

At 65 inches MP and 2550RPM you get 30 minutes at combat power (with better level flight performance then 2700 rpm and only slightly worse performance overall)

And the reason this makes a huge difference is that at full combat with 2700RPM you have 15 minutes so in that case after 5 minutes of wep you dont have 10 min left in max combat to recharge it thus you runt out of combat power after 12-13 minutes (5 min in boost 7-8 in Combat)

 

But now with 150 octane and 2550RPM you do!

I have not done a huge amount of tests

(Just a few flights playing around with it to see what it can do)

but i can spend 26-28 minutes going between 70 inches and 2700RPM with boost and 65 inches MP and 2550 RPM untill i run out of both combat and wep time.

(and an extra 10-15 minutes spent in combat/boost is a gamechanger for the P-47)

 

With the D-22 i run out of water after 1.5 cycles (4-5 min wep 5min recharge then another 1-2 min in wep untill water dries out) and at that point i still have another 16 minutes in combat power at 2550 RPM!

 

but with the D-28 you have much more water so you can keep the cycles up longer (which results in running out of both timers combat at around 26-27 minutes due to more time spent in wep).

 

But the reason why this is a game changer is

N.1.

This is something you could not do before since without 150 octane there is no combat power setting that (that gave you a noticeable performance boost over continous power)

since doing 52 inches of MP (Max combat without 150 octane) and 2550RPM still only gives you 15 minutes.

 

And

N.2

Realistically you will never have to spend over 25 minutes in Wep and combat

(Since it has a very high fuel consumption and max continous with 150 octane already gives decent cruise speeds and climbing preformance)

 

so a more realistic flight will be 2-3 min spend in boost 3-5 min spent at combat power during an engagement

(using 2550RPM in level flight with the ability to go to 2700 if you need the extra climb performance)

followed by time spent in continous looking for the next target allowing it to regen.

With the added ability to sprint at high speed over longer distances using 65 inches MP at 2550RPM (If you need to get to a location quickly or running back to base etc).

 

And in a mixed flight where you use Boost at Max power, Combat at 2550  continous power then you should never run out of combat power untill you run out of water,

because if you need more then 25 minutes of constant Combat / boost power then you are doing something wrong.

 

So yes the timers do not work exactly as in the German airplanes.

BUT

 

They allow you to use it in the same way as you can spend 25+ minutes in Boost + Combat power settings

and i dont think i have ever had a flight in a German fighter where i have spent over 20 minutes constantly at combat power or WEP

(And i have been playing this game since 2014),

So this gives the Thunderbolt the same exact ability

(And as mentioned at 65 MP and 2550RPM it had a comparable top speed to a K4 at combat power with the D-9 being the only German prop with a higher top speed in combat mode).

 

I understand that you hate the way the game models US aircraft (Using the actual Manuals and Documents)

and that you wish it worked differently. (And partially i can agree that the Hard limits are not perfect)

 

But that does not mean you have to ignore the new way it can be used now and how much of an improvement it is for the P-47D.

 

So please test it again but using 2550RPM and 65 inches MP instead of just ignoring it by using 2700RPM and then saying that what i posted does not work...

 

Edit:

And in Regards to the lack of warnings when timers run out.

 

You can still safely use these engine settings without the Techchat warnings just dont use WEP for 5 minutes in a row just because you have 5 minutes.

 

Use the cockpit clock for reference (and keep track of how many minutes pass using it)

and try to use boost in short burst when you need it (and not just because you can)

 

And you will also get a short warning when out of timer before engine damage (Rpms will start fluctuate giving you a few seconds to throttle back).

So dont rely on just the Techchat warnings insted look at the RPM,MP and Temp gauges and you should be fine.

Thats nothing new you can see in topic about P-47D28 when it come out 2 years ago that same thing could be done before, people were posting all kined of ways to extand combat timers on it and  ~52" 2550 insted 52" 2700 extended your combat same way your saying, and it still does, this is how ppl go around short combat timers, now they(devs) just addede 150oct mod to D-28 but they didnt change a thing how engine timers work on it, just more MP can be used if they changed a thing they would post it in DD they dont hide changes.

 

You can go look old posts when D-28 come out and youll fined all kined of settings on how to extend timers and youll fined same what you tested and others that go more then 1h and so on... it worked same before, now only 150 oct mod was added for some reason, maybe historicly fits Normandy campaign.

Same as you can fly P51 1h on combat if you use settings from spit 9 or fly emergancy on spit 9 for 15 min if you use settings for 15min combat on 51 or i like to fly p-38 at 88/88 and have combat for ~30-35min depending on alts i use and so on...but that still dont change fact that times they say in specs only work for set of MP and rpms and dont work outside of thouse ranges (they get shortened or extanded), so if you wont to be safe your not in random fail time or you recharged fully only way to know that is techchat messages that are buged.

On american airplanes this things are normal your forced to look for ways to expand timers, and devs just make it harder by not fixing simple tech chat messages that are there to warn player when timers run out. Real pilots didnt have to worry about going more then recomended time, we in game have to worry about that so bear minimum is to have working warning system work bug free. If in real ww2 pilots had same strick tmers, airplane would be useless after he forhot he used boost for 10min insted 5 in heat of battle, engeners would build some red light or horn that would warn pilot he used boost 5min so he doesent become POW, it would be most important thing in cocpit if it worked so strickt in real life. 
For us this is techchat and its messages and thats why they should work as all other less important techchat messages when server have them on.

7 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

 

Wait, what? You are getting 617kmh on the deck? That's nearly 383 mph.

Yes with 150 oct mode no bomb racks, 100% trotle rpm at 2550, closed oil and cowls, inlet 50%, mix 100% turbo 100% and you hit that speed as your timer run out on boost, and you can get rid of 4 guns and go 623kmh   

Edited July 12, 2020 by CountZero

[mattebubben]

1 hour ago, CountZero said:

Thats nothing new you can see in topic about P-47D28 when it come out 2 years ago that same thing could be done before, people were posting all kined of ways to extand combat timers on it and  ~52" 2550 insted 52" 2700 extended your combat same way your saying, and it still does, this is how ppl go around short combat timers, now they(devs) just addede 150oct mod to D-28 but they didnt change a thing how engine timers work on it, just more MP can be used if they changed a thing they would post it in DD they dont hide changes.

 

You can go look old posts when D-28 come out and youll fined all kined of settings on how to extend timers and youll fined same what you tested and others that go more then 1h and so on... it worked same before, now only 150 oct mod was added for some reason, maybe historicly fits Normandy campaign.

Same as you can fly P51 1h on combat if you use settings from spit 9 or fly emergancy on spit 9 for 15 min if you use settings for 15min combat on 51 or i like to fly p-38 at 88/88 and have combat for ~30-35min depending on alts i use and so on...but that still dont change fact that times they say in specs only work for set of MP and rpms and dont work outside of thouse ranges (they get shortened or extanded), so if you wont to be safe your not in random fail time or you recharged fully only way to know that is techchat messages that are buged.

On american airplanes this things are normal your forced to look for ways to expand timers, and devs just make it harder by not fixing simple tech chat messages that are there to warn player when timers run out. Real pilots didnt have to worry about going more then recomended time, we in game have to worry about that so bear minimum is to have working warning system work bug free. If in real ww2 pilots had same strick tmers, airplane would be useless after he forhot he used boost for 10min insted 5 in heat of battle, engeners would build some red light or horn that would warn pilot he used boost 5min so he doesent become POW, it would be most important thing in cocpit if it worked so strickt in real life. 
For us this is techchat and its messages and thats why they should work as all other less important techchat messages when server have them on.

 

Yes using 52MP 2550 you can get 30 min. (And i will gladly admit to being wrong on that part and have edited my previous post to say as much)

 

BUT. (And this is my point)

 

When alternating between WEP and 52MP 2550RPM  you only get a combined time of 18 minutes using the D-22 (With water running out after 1.5 cycles of WEP)

and 16 minutes with the D-28 (Less total time since i could spend more time in WEP)

 

In comparison when using 150 Octane and Alternating between WEP and 62 inches MP and 2550RPM i get 28 minutes in the D-22

(with water again running out after 1.5 cycles of WEP)

and 26 Minutes in the D-28 (Since i can use several WEP cycles).

 

So when using 150 octane the WEP time does not eat as much into the Combat timer as it does without 150 octane

(Maybe because there is a smaller difference in Manifold Pressure between the two 70-65 instead of 64-52)

and as a result it gives you an extra 10 minutes of time! (And 10 minutes is a significant increase)

 

And that is the big difference with 150 octane in the P-47D that makes this method much more effective now.

Edited July 12, 2020 by mattebubben

[CUJO_1970]

8 hours ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

You can reach these speeds by having a clean plane, the engine overboosted to 73" (would be in between 2900-2950 HP at auto rich and 2700 RPM), increasing mixture to full rich and decreasing RPM to 2600, which in theory increases the power more, but don't know to which extent in precise numbers.

OK thanks, so more gaming the game to get completely fake results like is being done with some other planes.

 

No historical basis for these speeds, whatsoever. Not even close. These fake gaming the game settings need to go away. 

[Legioneod]

2 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

OK thanks, so more gaming the game to get completely fake results like is being done with some other planes.

 

No historical basis for these speeds, whatsoever. Not even close. These fake gaming the game settings need to go away. 

Really depends imo. If we were to lighten the load enough and boost it up to 70+ manifold it's possible to reach those speeds I would think. Maybe not 380+ but certainly 370-375mph with light load and high power.

 

 

[CountZero]

On 7/12/2020 at 1:35 PM, mattebubben said:

 

Yes using 52MP 2550 you can get 30 min. (And i will gladly admit to being wrong on that part and have edited my previous post to say as much)

 

BUT. (And this is my point)

 

When alternating between WEP and 52MP 2550RPM  you only get a combined time of 18 minutes using the D-22 (With water running out after 1.5 cycles of WEP)

and 16 minutes with the D-28 (Less total time since i could spend more time in WEP)

 

In comparison when using 150 Octane and Alternating between WEP and 62 inches MP and 2550RPM i get 28 minutes in the D-22

(with water again running out after 1.5 cycles of WEP)

and 26 Minutes in the D-28 (Since i can use several WEP cycles).

 

So when using 150 octane the WEP time does not eat as much into the Combat timer as it does without 150 octane

(Maybe because there is a smaller difference in Manifold Pressure between the two 70-65 instead of 64-52)

and as a result it gives you an extra 10 minutes of time! (And 10 minutes is a significant increase)

 

And that is the big difference with 150 octane in the P-47D that makes this method much more effective now.

Yes thats good incress compared to before, now if we had working techchat messages one could play realaxed like real ww2 pilots did, and not count how many min i can fly it now compared to before and so on... messages are in game, techchat is optionsl for servers there is no reason for them not showing up when player/server has them on, and then we can just play how we wont to extand timers and when time run out message tells us, as this all shows that timers are almost never what specs say as players dont play at that settings, why devs need to make things harder to use this arcade timer system is beyond me.

[Rei-sen]

4 hours ago, CountZero said:

why devs need to make things harder to use this arcade timer system is beyond me.

What's even more funny - you have an "unbreakable" option that according to the devs not only disables damage from collisions but also eliminates engine damage timers. But in reality all it does is just extending the times until the engine breaks down. I tried SP Career mission in P-47 with that option enabled, was cruising in combat power to the long distance mission area and suddenly my engine broke down ?I haven't touched Career mode since then. I hardly ever play this game anymore. 

[HandyNasty]

On 7/14/2020 at 6:24 PM, Arthur-A said:

What's even more funny - you have an "unbreakable" option that according to the devs not only disables damage from collisions but also eliminates engine damage timers. But in reality all it does is just extending the times until the engine breaks down. I tried SP Career mission in P-47 with that option enabled, was cruising in combat power to the long distance mission area and suddenly my engine broke down ?I haven't touched Career mode since then. I hardly ever play this game anymore. 

AFAIK, you're wrong here. With "unbreakable" on, the engine doesn't get damaged due to overboosting or being above engine limits. However, you can still make your engine quit due to exceeding the temperature limits.

[Rei-sen]

28 minutes ago, =FSB=HandyNasty said:

AFAIK, you're wrong here. With "unbreakable" on, the engine doesn't get damaged due to overboosting or being above engine limits. However, you can still make your engine quit due to exceeding the temperature limits.

It's exactly the opposite. I did some QMB dogfights in Aircobra. Most of the time there was a wall of white smoke behind me due to the overheating but the engine didn't fail.

[HandyNasty]

When venting water, your engine is not overheating immediately. Only if you reach the point of  "not-enough-water-remaining-in-the-cooling-system", your engine will start to overheat and then die out rather quickly.

Edited July 17, 2020 by =FSB=HandyNasty
Typo

[Legioneod]

3 hours ago, =FSB=HandyNasty said:

When venting water, your engine is not overheating immediately. Only if you reach the point of  "not-enough-water-remaining-in-the-cooling-system", your engine will start to overheat and then die out rather quickly.

As soon as you start venting water you should start seeing a spike in temperature almost immediate and it would constantly increase until failure. Boiling water can't really cool an engine, if the water is venting then it's boiling off and the engine won't be able to keep cool even with some water in the system.

 

This is one area that the sim could use some improvement, especially in cases like the 109. Once the pressurized system is damaged and starts to leak or the water boil off there's nothing you can do to change the outcome, the engine would overheat fairly quickly. Even reducing power won't save it as you still lost water due to venting or leaks and you would have less cooling capacity. Currently I feel overheating should be a bit more severe in liquid cooled engines that have vented water or sustained damage to the cooling system.

[Heckpupper]

3 hours ago, =FSB=HandyNasty said:

When venting water, your engine is not overheating immediately. Only if you reach the point of  "not-enough-water-remaining-in-the-cooling-system", your engine will start to overheat and then die out rather quickly.

 

Where's the water radiator on the P-47 again?

[Pierre64]

[Silavite]

I'm curious as to why decreasing RPM at SL increases level flight speed. An increase would make sense at higher altitudes (where the propeller tip speed at maximum RPM approaches or exceeds Mach 1), but not at sea level. Is this an artifact of the P-47 only, or does it affect other aircraft?

[Legioneod]

21 hours ago, Pierre64 said:

Has to be one of the ugliest looking aircraft I've ever seen but it was stupid fast iirc. 

P-47J isnt much better, though it is fast.

Edited July 18, 2020 by Legioneod

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

11 hours ago, Silavite said:

I'm curious as to why decreasing RPM at SL increases level flight speed. An increase would make sense at higher altitudes (where the propeller tip speed at maximum RPM approaches or exceeds Mach 1), but not at sea level. Is this an artifact of the P-47 only, or does it affect other aircraft?

It affects the Yaks where this characteristic is also mentioned in the irl manuals, max level speed is achieved with 2550 rpm rather then 2700 rpm below 1km.

Maybe the reason why doing the same thing in the P-47 was never mentioned was because it was never tested as such or the engine would start knocking.

 

Edited July 18, 2020 by =362nd_FS=RoflSeal

[HR_Zunzun]

15 hours ago, Legioneod said:

Has to be one of the ugliest looking aircraft I've ever seen but it was stupid fast iirc. One of the fastest P-47s to fly, only one faster was the J (500mph) which looked slightly less ugly.

 

Pierre´s picture is the XP-47-H with Chrisler engine. 2500HP water cooled engine that only managed to get the plane to 414mph at 30000ft. Together with some cooling problems it was enough to stop further development.

[Legioneod]

50 minutes ago, HR_Zunzun said:

Pierre´s picture is the XP-47-H with Chrisler engine. 2500HP water cooled engine that only managed to get the plane to 414mph at 30000ft. Together with some cooling problems it was enough to stop further development.

Ah rgr, my mistake. Thought it was faster. I know the J was the fastest P-47 to ever fly, figured the H was also pretty quick.

[HR_Zunzun]

2 hours ago, Legioneod said:

Ah rgr, my mistake. Thought it was faster. I know the J was the fastest P-47 to ever fly, figured the H was also pretty quick.

 

Also, do not forget the XP-72

 

 

With a PW 4360 giving 3500hp could achieve around 500mph at altitude. There two prototypes, one with a conventional propeller and another one (the one in the picture) with contra-rotating prop. Also with armament there were several proposals. One with 4 M4 37mm cannon. Probably not the best option for a fighter but would have been interesting shoting with it.

Although production was ordered in 1944, the end of war and the born or jet era had it cancelled.

[SAS_Storebror]

How to successfully derail a thread within 5 posts.

Well done mates.

 

Mike

[HR_Zunzun]

Well, the title said P-47 and P-47 was all about ☺️

[SAS_Storebror]

[HR_Zunzun]

I was somehow busy discussing p-47 instead of looking for tiny points.

[Talon_]

On 7/18/2020 at 11:19 AM, =362nd_FS=RoflSeal said:

Maybe the reason why doing the same thing in the P-47 was never mentioned was because it was never tested as such or the engine would start knocking.

 

 

It was mentioned in the manual for the Corsair which uses the same engine minus turbo.

[PainGod85]

On 7/18/2020 at 12:29 AM, Silavite said:

I'm curious as to why decreasing RPM at SL increases level flight speed. An increase would make sense at higher altitudes (where the propeller tip speed at maximum RPM approaches or exceeds Mach 1), but not at sea level. Is this an artifact of the P-47 only, or does it affect other aircraft?

 

It's because the propeller reduction gear was designed with the original, smaller 12 ft prop in mind. The larger ~13 ft paddle blades came with extremely high wingtip losses due to having a very high Mach number at 1.350 propeller RPM (B series Double Wasps with 2.700 engine RPM had a reduction gear of 0.5:1).

You lose a bit of raw shaft HP when you throttle down to 2550 or so RPM, but you gain much more thrust out of the prop disk due to the increased efficiency.

 

In the later C series R-2800 as it was used on the P-47M and N, the base 2800 RPM are offset by the more aggressive prop reduction gearing of 0.45:1, resulting in 1.260 propeller RPM.

 

Note that the propeller used on those later P-47s was the same as was used in refitting some of the older Ds to paddle blades in addition to having become factory standard for certain build series beginning in late 1943 or so.

 

At sea level in a normal atmosphere, the speed of sound is 761.1 mph. However, at just 580 360 mph plane speed, a 13 ft prop blade running at 1350 rpm would actually run at an effective 926.8 722.6 mph, a Mach factor of almost 1.22 0.95.

 

Math:

 

Prop speed:

V(p) = d * π * f

V(p) = (13 ft * 3,14... * 1350 /min * 60 min/h) / (5280 ft/mi)

V(p) = 722.9 626.5 mph

 

Aircraft speed:

V(ac) = 360 mph

 

Since any speed can be divided into (and recombined from) multiple vectors, we can now calculate the prop tip's actual speed by using the Pythagorean theorem:

 

√[(580 360 mph)² + (722.9 626.5 mph)²] = 926.8 722.6 mph

 

Thanks @ZachariasX for fact checking me.

 

I will say ICAO's standard atmosphere is +15 °C, so that is why I went with the corresponding speed of sound of 340 m/s.

 

As stated in his followup post, this does put the prop blade smack dab into an area where tip losses are excessive due to wave drag. Reducing RPM alleviates this.

Edited July 30, 2020 by PainGod85
I accidentally used 580 kph as mph instead of converting the value to the 360 mph it actually is. Also, I divided 13 feet by 2 and somehow arrived at 7.5 feet because I'm a knob. My bad.

[ZachariasX]

2 hours ago, PainGod85 said:

Aircraft speed:

V(ac) = 580 mph

Isn‘t that on the fast side of a P-47?

 

Besides, I get for 13 ft. (156 inches) @ 1350 rpm a tip speed of 627 mph. At -20 deg Centigrades, that is Mach ~0.87. At 420 mph TAS, that makes ~755 mph tip speed, 713 mph being the speed of sound (at -20 deg.). You need to be high up to reach 420 mph...

 

Down low at +20 deg Centigrades, speed of sound is 767 mph and the prop tip goes at Mach 0.93 (if you can do 420 mph down there), still a tad over the desireable range of 0.8 - 0.92 Mach.

 

Going down 10% in rpm puts you in the good bracket again anywhere between tree height and 8000 meters.

 

While I agree with your reasoning, with your numbers, you‘d have a infernally loud monster.

[PainGod85]

2 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

Isn‘t that on the fast side of a P-47?

 

Besides, I get for 13 ft. (156 inches) @ 1350 rpm a tip speed of 627 mph. At -20 deg Centigrades, that is Mach ~0.87. At 420 mph TAS, that makes ~755 mph tip speed, 713 mph being the speed of sound (at -20 deg.). You need to be high up to reach 420 mph...

 

Down low at +20 deg Centigrades, speed of sound is 767 mph and the prop tip goes at Mach 0.93 (if you can do 420 mph down there), still a tad over the desireable range of 0.8 - 0.92 Mach.

 

Going down 10% in rpm puts you in the good bracket again anywhere between tree height and 8000 meters.

 

While I agree with your reasoning, with your numbers, you‘d have a infernally loud monster.

 

FFS I mixed up mph and kph in the end. Hold on, I'll edit. Done.

Edited July 26, 2020 by PainGod85

[Silavite]

On 7/26/2020 at 12:58 PM, PainGod85 said:

 

It's because the propeller reduction gear was designed with the original, smaller 12 ft prop in mind. The larger ~13 ft paddle blades came with extremely high wingtip losses due to having a very high Mach number at 1.350 propeller RPM (B series Double Wasps with 2.700 engine RPM had a reduction gear of 0.5:1).

You lose a bit of raw shaft HP when you throttle down to 2550 or so RPM, but you gain much more thrust out of the prop disk due to the increased efficiency.

 

In the later C series R-2800 as it was used on the P-47M and N, the base 2800 RPM are offset by the more aggressive prop reduction gearing of 0.45:1, resulting in 1.260 propeller RPM.

 

Note that the propeller used on those later P-47s was the same as was used in refitting some of the older Ds to paddle blades in addition to having become factory standard for certain build series beginning in late 1943 or so.

 

At sea level in a normal atmosphere, the speed of sound is 761.1 mph. However, at just 580 360 mph plane speed, a 13 ft prop blade running at 1350 rpm would actually run at an effective 926.8 722.6 mph, a Mach factor of almost 1.22 0.95.

 

Math:

 

Prop speed:

V(p) = d * π * f

V(p) = (13 ft * 3,14... * 1350 /min * 60 min/h) / (5280 ft/mi)

V(p) = 722.9 626.5 mph

 

Aircraft speed:

V(ac) = 360 mph

 

Since any speed can be divided into (and recombined from) multiple vectors, we can now calculate the prop tip's actual speed by using the Pythagorean theorem:

 

√[(580 360 mph)² + (722.9 626.5 mph)²] = 926.8 722.6 mph

 

Thanks @ZachariasX for fact checking me.

 

I will say ICAO's standard atmosphere is +15 °C, so that is why I went with the corresponding speed of sound of 340 m/s.

 

As stated in his followup post, this does put the prop blade smack dab into an area where tip losses are excessive due to wave drag. Reducing RPM alleviates this.

Ah, I forgot about the prop change. That makes perfect sense.

[Cpt_Siddy]

Question is, is any of this prop stuff modeled in game.