"The Kuban Wall" Campaign

[IckyATLAS]

The new updated and extended Campaign based on IL2 Version 5.204b can be downloaded now!

 

Here you can download: The Kuban Wall campaign V07-24

 

IMPORTANT!  read the Read Me file inside the folder where you will have all the necessary information to play this campaign. You have additional missions and multiple improvements.

 

Requirements:

Maps: Stalingrad, Moscow, Kuban, Bodenplatte.

Collector planes:   All except: P38, F190-D9, Henschel, Ta 152, CG 4A Glider, C47A, Spitfire MK.XIV, Arado AR 234, .

Collector vehicle:  GAZ-MM-72K is required.

 

Check also this post on news on the campaign and updates down below. I have kept the older update history at the end of this post.

 

 

New release Log

 

Correction 06/07/24

A very unfortunate bug has been detected related to the new folder naming.

As the all the sound and image files have an address that are hardcoded using the filename path, a change on the top released folder name has made all the image and sound files inaccessible. This has been corrected, and the Read Me file adapted too.

The new Campaign folder zip file must be re-downloaded and reinstalled in the game folders. 

Sorry for the inconvenience.

 

Update and Revision 25/06/2024

This is a new release after two years. I have debugged a lot added a lot and improved elements and also used the new planes as they were coming like the IAR 80, the Li2, etc. I also improved certain missions by either adding additional features or trying to make the mission more interesting, and added three new ones. See the list of Missions to date below after the project description.

I have also made a combined release. You can load the Campaign and the single missions at the same time and so you will have the choice of playing as you wish. You will have more info in my Read Me file in the release.

 

Development History

The Kuban Wall Version 1 that had only two missions and was based on a concept where the war theater was active all over the map independently of the player, so that the player was immersed like in a real war where events happen, and you can be part of it through your actions. Unfortunately, computers are not powerful enough for such a concept and I had very high time dilation which made planes fly slow. It did impact too much the playability.

 

Before adding new missions, I had first to completely review the game design concept. The initial concept was war theater centric where the player is just an object like another in this war that happens anyway and goes on even if he decides to stay parked and admire the sky. Today’s computers are not powerful enough and so I had to move to a player centric concept where things happen only around the player’s sphere of influence at least for most of the actions. I had to redesign the two initial missions and then add new ones.

 

Version 2 is released after nearly 16 months after the first version and has tried to correct the time dilation issue. To do that the various actions on the map will happen according to the player and are loaded and activated/deactivated, spawned/deleted according to the mission plan. It has improved a lot the playability and reduced drastically the time dilation. I cannot guarantee it is completely zero always but if it happens it should not be really perceived.

 

The Campaign has also integrated all the new updates and improvements of the game over these last months and uses some new collector items like the vehicles. When the new cloud system will be released, I will check about some of the missions where I may release an update with a better atmospheric model, mainly but not only for Mission 06 which overcast visual rendering is not too nice.

 

The wait is worth because instead of the initial two missions there are now 7 released mission (see below) and at least five to six are already in the pipeline for Part 2 which release date is unknown even to me.

 

The June 2024 Update (no more versioning or partitioning) is now 14 missions long and there are two more planned before we end this campaign.

 

The Wall of Kuban in a nutshell

The Kuban Wall campaign is centered in the Novorossiysk - Gelendzhik region, in summer 1943. 

You are a pilot with a lot of experience that became an ace during the battle of Stalingrad and has been sent in the Kuban area that is in dire need of pilots and do your best in stopping the German counter-offensive.

The campaign plays from the west of Kerch to Krasnodar on the southeast, and down to Sochi on the seaside, and inland further southeast in the high mountains. Some action takes place on the Black Sea too. It is an Air, Land and Sea campaign.

Please read the Campaign Description file in the released package for more details on the campaign scenario.

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

What is this campaign and what it is not

It is a scripted campaign which means that the missions have a chronological order, and that to move to the next mission you need to succeed first in the present one. Each mission have primary and multiple secondary objectives.

 

This campaign is freely inspired from real historical events that took place in that region around that period and is a fictional scenario that has absolutely no pretention to depict or describe faithfully what really happened. Names of existing persons are mentioned and of existing events but only to build a consistent fictional scenario and nothing more.

 

This campaign is not for those that want just quick missions, ten minutes of fighter combat do the mission and then to the next. All the missions are complete and will last a more realistic time. As I said you have land, air, and sea missions. You have always to take off and must land according to your mission. If you have not succeeded say because you are out of ammo or badly damaged then all is not lost, find an active service installation on a friendly airfield, and rearm, repair, refuel and go back to finish your mission that means to reach the main objective. After that you can continue playing to each the secondary ones.

 

Otherwise, you are free to fly and fight in the mission’s theater / map. You have at friendly airfields the capability to rearm reload repair and refuel. This campaign is for those that love flying and besides the mission objective, can continue flying and fighting in this theater for a long time and discover all what has been implemented. Therefore, one mission has no time limit, you decide when to stop, but to advance you must at least reach the primary objective.

 

To succeed in your mission you have to finish your flight and land at the mission airfield. Just landing is not enough though. You must land and park your plane anywhere you like on the airfield which means you have stopped moving, that will get you the mission success. Don't be in a hurry and end your mission too early just after having landed on your airfield as this will not record your success. When the mission is properly ended you will get a nice visual mission success confirmation message.  The message can appear only if the HUD is active but in any case the mission success will be recorded. There is no need to go to the service center and rearm, refuel or repair, to register a mission success unless you need to do so (if you are out of ammo or too damaged to continue) to be able to fly back again to complete your main mission objectives.

 

The mission route waypoints are there "for info" as a guideline, and only for the primary objective. When you activate the autopilot during the mission it will send you to the last active waypoint which may be counterproductive. I do not think there is a command to switch waypoints during the game. The secondary objectives to be carried are free flight, you have to plan your way for them.

In this campaign missions there is a time and space continuity. I mean that what impacts the map in one mission will be there on a following mission.

 

The maintenance hangars are where there is a white or soviet flag flapping in the wind. It is not near the fuel tanks. That's risky, in case of attack on fuel tanks the whole maintenance place can burn or be blown up. To be able to activate the maintenance you have to park twenty to thirty meters from this flag. You can use the arrow panels that will indicate where the parking place is. Your plane, and wings must not trespass the panels that show the limit. This creates a free zone between your plane and the hangars where some animation takes place that I let you discover.

 

Why all this work for free and not try to have a product for sale

There are many reasons for that:

The first and most important one I did not want to have the constraints of a product that is to be made for sale. This means that if someone will pay for it, legitimately he will expect to have a product that not only works "flawlessly" but also that is playable and can run well enough on whatever machine he uses to play IL2 and with the BOX version he has, using the basic planes that come with the game etc. etc. I suppose that if you sell a product you want to maximize the gain and so a vast majority should be able to play if they buy it. As a result, you must go to the bare minimum and do a lot of compromises.

 

The second as well as important, is that I wanted to do a campaign using all what I have in hand without limitations and push the editor to see if he could handle heavy loads, and I have not seen the limits yet. I also wanted that with the coming next generation graphic cards as well as CPU chips this campaign will profit from this added power. This to say that the missions to play need a very robust system. The map has thousands of objects and will take some time to load. I get on my system over 120 fps and practically no time dilation, so it is fine to play but I have a 11900K at 5 GHZ with 125 GB fast ram and fast SDD drives, and an RTX 3090 GPU. 13900K at 6 Ghz with 256 GB Fast Ram, 4 NVMe Gen4 drives for  a total of 17TB, and a RTX 4090 GPU. To play you also need to have BOS, BOM, BOK, BOBp, and nearly all the collector planes and the two collector vehicles (check Read Me). 

 

The third is that this campaign is a continuous WIP that I enjoy a lot (I develop more than I fly so I hope you will fly much more than I do) and that I decided to share with you. I hope to improve things add new missions and not have the missions frozen once for all but improve them according to the comments and new ideas as they come. I expect also to exchange on this through your posts and comments. I do this in my spare time and want to be free to work on this campaign as I please.

 

Mission difficulty is very delicate to define. I should play a lot all my missions in various ways to really be able to carefully balance the difficulty, but too many parameters come into play, and I do not have all this time. I count on your feedback on this topic and will adapt increasing or decreasing it according to your reactions.

 

 

The released Campaign Mission as per 25 June 2024

 

00 - Welcome to Kuban

 

01 - Know your enemy

 

02 - Stop the Bombers

 

03 - Save the convoy

 

04 - Scramble

 

05 - Nightmare

 

06 - Silence

 

07 - Eagles Nest 

 

 

08 – Operation DKF

 

09 - Training

 

10 - For Your Eyes Only 

 

11 - Hit and Run

 

12 - Vengeance

 

13 - Iron Fist

 

Two additional missions in the works. Stay Tuned.

 

 

Development History Log

 

Update 06/06/24

The campaign hence all the missions have been reworked and improved. It is a new release.

The campaign as well as the individual mission are compatible with version 5.204b.

 

Information 23/02/23

The campaign as well as the individual mission should be compatible with version 5.004b.

There is a 5.101 version that has been announced and that should be ready by April 2023.

The campaign and missions may become incompatible if they update the code so that editor functions have different effects.

This is something I will have to check in due time.

This campaign has a Part 2 that is planned but due to various professional and personal obligations at the moment I am unable to devote enough time to finalize those missions. I hope that I may resume work in the future. Stay tuned.

 

Update 06/05/22

As promised you can download below all the Scripted Missions as independent missions. This will allow you to play them as you wish and avoid if one is too difficult to be blocked in the progress of the campaign.

 

Here you can download: The Kuban Wall Missions V2 - Part1 - Update 5.004b

IMPORTANT! read the Read Me file inside this folder.

If you have already installed the Campaign then you do not need to bother with the Plane Skins, you have them already installed. Otherwise you will have to install them as mentioned in the Read Me document.

Requirements are the same as per the campaign above.

 

Update 09/03/22

After the new IL2 sim update to 4.702b I take the opportunity to adapt and improve globally the missions as well as adding new ones.

A few examples here:

 

1) The IL2 last update as you know has modified the Atmospheric model. This has impacts on certain missions, and I had to modify when necessary the atmospheric model to be coherent with the scenario.

 

2) Those who played already the campaign saw that the mission to Save the Convoy coming from Tuapse was so difficult that it was impossible to win and so to move to the next one. This has been corrected. I am in a testing phase now. It is very difficult to not do the opposite and have a too easy mission. I have also to better check other missions to be sure that they can be done.

 

3) I have added three mission as we are waiting for version 4.703 with the new skydome:

 

Mission 07 - Eagles Nest: which is a vehicle mission with the collector vehicle Gaz AA 72k. This one was created recently nad did not exist before in my scenario and mission plan. 

 

Mission 09 - Training: this one will give you the opportunity to fly a FW190 and be trained on that plane for the next mission. This one was planned in Part2 of the campaign, but finally it was nearly ready so I decided to add it in this release. 

 

Mission 10 - For Your Eyes Only: I hope I can make it on time, but it is not yet finished and in any case it will be that last of this first part of this campaign. This is a secret mission so I cannot tell anything here. You need to play it to know what it is all about. The only thing I can say is that Mission 09 and mission 10 are a story inside the campaign story. 

 

There are also some additional improvements made in each mission, more action and events added, having a better continuity (persistence) from one mission to the other, the scenario has also been improved to better reflect events, many bugs have been corrected, time dilation down to zero  etc. 

 

Update 03/11/21

In a campaign you cannot move to or unlock the next mission if you cannot register the primary mission success. Secondary successes or failures have no impact on this. The reasons are related to some errors in the mission objective code management, which have been corrected and they were present in all missions this is why the whole campaign has been updated, and the link will allow you to download the updated version. The reason lies behind the fact that during the game the mission status can change according to what happens. As you can continue to play to fulfill other secondary mission objectives even when your main mission has succeeded you can be in a failed status again. I did a modification so that once you have indeed landed into the mission required airfield (you can land on another one say to rearm but this will not count) and you get the mission success media play (sound and images) then this mission status will become definitive so that if you continue, even if you get shot down and killed your success status will not change. Beware however that if you fulfill all the objectives but get killed or crash before landing alive and in one piece and park at your destination airfield then the mission will fail. Same if you do things during the mission that can get you court martialed before registering your success objective. This is why it is important to read each Mission documentation where you will have all the necessary information.

 

Let's be realistic, I do not have the time to properly test all the quite complex missions. Other errors are possible. The difficulty of each mission is also not easy to calibrate. To stay blocked and not be able to continue unlocking the next mission is very frustrating either if it is too difficult or if there is a bug. This is why I have decided to release this campaign in two formats and I added the form of individual missions that you can play independently as you like. You can have both one in your Campaign folder and the other in your mission folder and then choose how to play. These mission have a given chronology as they are part of a complete scenario, and it is good to play them in order but after all, the main objective is having fun so at least you can play them all without any restraint. Nevertheless I would be pleased to get your comments good or bad, so as to improve over time.

 

Edited September 11, 2024 by IckyATLAS
New redesigned campaign updates

[Hirschmannhirschmann]

Klasse,

wir freuen uns darauf ??

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

Wonderful! 

What kind of planes will be flying?

I hope you include the collector Plane Yak 9, so I have a good extra reason to buy it/them.

Edited July 5, 2020 by =gRiJ=Roman-

[WM_KMS]

Wonderful, I love scripted campaigns, I will play them all one day

 

[sevenless]

Sounds great!

[Pikestance]

I am guessing this is for the 109 and you later switch to a 190 (06 - Training (Part1))????

[IckyATLAS]

8 hours ago, =gRiJ=Roman- said:

Wonderful! 

What kind of planes will be flying?

I hope you include the collector Plane Yak 9, so I have a good extra reason to buy it/them.

Yes the Yak 9 is one of the planes you will fly.

6 minutes ago, [=PzG=]-FlyinPinkPanther said:

I am guessing this is for the 109 and you later switch to a 190 (06 - Training (Part1))????

Mission 06 and 07 are two parts of one mission. You did not guess it right, but no spoiler here. Just do not forget that you are a soviet pilot in all this campaign.

[56RAF_Roblex]

Looking forward to seeing the links.  

[keeno]

Brilliant!

[Chief_Mouser]

• My cup of tea! Thanks for making this. ?

[Lusekofte]

The share effort in presenting this campaign give me high expectation 

?

[=MOCAP=Thaddeus_Darwin]

I am a fan already - sounds right up my street. As much as I want to get more involved in the multiplayer side of the game (I'm still learning to fly, really...!), I do like to just be told where to go and what to do from time to time when I'm feeling a little lazy - and who doesn't like to follow along and maybe lose yourself with a bit of a story once in a while - that's why I love these scripted campaigns...! and sometimes, you know - I just like to fly...!

 

I, for one, appreciate the time and effort that has obviously been put into this and I hope that people can be professional in their feedback upon its release - constructive criticism rather than gripes and moans...!

 

I look forward to realising your vision (If I can ony find out which one of these damned knobs starts this god-forsaken plane - DAMNIT...!)

 

Well done. 

[IckyATLAS]

13 hours ago, Thaddeus_Darwin said:

I am a fan already - sounds right up my street. As much as I want to get more involved in the multiplayer side of the game (I'm still learning to fly, really...!), I do like to just be told where to go and what to do from time to time when I'm feeling a little lazy - and who doesn't like to follow along and maybe lose yourself with a bit of a story once in a while - that's why I love these scripted campaigns...! and sometimes, you know - I just like to fly...!

 

I, for one, appreciate the time and effort that has obviously been put into this and I hope that people can be professional in their feedback upon its release - constructive criticism rather than gripes and moans...!

 

I look forward to realising your vision (If I can ony find out which one of these damned knobs starts this god-forsaken plane - DAMNIT...!)

 

Well done. 

You should appreciate what is coming ? 

[Semor76]

@IckyATLAS

 

Any plans for custom skins for your campaign,or will you stick to the default ones?

[IckyATLAS]

Except one custom skin which I made for the B25 with the red star that you will receive with the corresponding mission, all others are default.

It is complicated to use skins made by skinners as I may need to get an approval for each one. 

 

[Semor76]

14 minutes ago, IckyATLAS said:

Except one custom skin which I made for the B25 with the red star that you will receive with the corresponding mission, all others are default.

It is complicated to use skins made by skinners as I may need to get an approval for each one. 

 

Ok. Sad to hear that. With so many skinners out here, I´m sure you could get the skins needed in no time. Maybe I will swap the skins by hand after the campaign release or I leave your campaign out this time. Sorry, no offence here. I appreciate your work! But since a long time I wont play with those cloned generic skins anymore. This throws me every time out of the immersion. (but this my very personal point of view ?)

 

Anyway, wish you luck with your work!

 

Cheers.

[IckyATLAS]

2 hours ago, Semor76 said:

Ok. Sad to hear that. With so many skinners out here, I´m sure you could get the skins needed in no time. Maybe I will swap the skins by hand after the campaign release or I leave your campaign out this time. Sorry, no offence here. I appreciate your work! But since a long time I wont play with those cloned generic skins anymore. This throws me every time out of the immersion. (but this my very personal point of view ?)

 

Anyway, wish you luck with your work!

 

Cheers.

Interesting, but can you tell me what would be the skins you would like to have. I perfectly understand your point and the visual immersion is for sure an important element. Yes there are a lot of skins out there, but choosing and which one is best for the storyline is a difficult choice. We must not forget that even if some planes were particularly decorated thousands had as you say cloned standard skins. Many pilots had a plane assigned for the mission. Having its dedicated plane was already an exception.

 

 

As you all know 4.008 has been released, I downloaded it and now starting tests to ensure the missions are compatible. A lot of goodies here.

I still expect to release by this Friday if there are no particular issues with this new release. This new version should improve visually things. As I have IL2 bombing missions all default skins are now 4K. 

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by IckyATLAS

[LLv44_Manof]

On 7/6/2020 at 7:46 AM, IckyATLAS said:

Yes the Yak 9 is one of the planes you will fly.

Mission 06 and 07 are two parts of one mission. You did not guess it right, but no spoiler here. Just do not forget that you are a soviet pilot in all this campaign.

Does this mean that one can't fly German planes at all?

[IckyATLAS]

There is one mission where you fly a german plane. In this campaign you are on the red star side.

 

[IckyATLAS]

Some final tests with the 4.008b version just released.

[IckyATLAS]

Misson 00 ready to go. Mission 01 in final testing now. Looks good.

[IckyATLAS]

CAMPAIGN V 1.0 RELEASED !!! ?  

Missions 00 and 01 are out for you to play.

 

As promised after a week of final tests here is the scripted campaigne released.

I hope you enjoy it and have fun.

 

Check on top post of this topic.

Edited July 13, 2020 by IckyATLAS

[jollyjack]

Great, and thanks !!!

[alpenspion]

Can you make a correct front line? It feel more "historical"

[=MOCAP=Thaddeus_Darwin]

Downloaded and itching to give it a try...! 

[IckyATLAS]

5 hours ago, alpenspion said:

Can you make a correct front line? It feel more "historical"

Noted down for the next update.

[Falcon41]

IckyATLAS,

     I've downloaded your campaign; however, when I attempted to play the first mission, it ran very slowly.  Any idea what might be the cause as other campaigns I've installed have run fine?

Falcon

[WM_KMS]

1 hour ago, Falcon41 said:

IckyATLAS,

     I've downloaded your campaign; however, when I attempted to play the first mission, it ran very slowly.  Any idea what might be the cause as other campaigns I've installed have run fine?

Falcon

Same with me, my FPS stays around 40-50 but the Yak-9 flys like an A-20 lol  it's like the world is running at half speed, it's probably more activity than my system can handle, all other campaigns have been fine.

[Chief_Mouser]

Yep, I've got the slowdown too.  ?  FPS at 80 and the Yak-9 at walking pace. We've had this occasionally flying PWCG co-ops as well. My guess would be the number of objects on the map, but it's just a guess.

Edited July 13, 2020 by 216th_Cat

[IckyATLAS]

I found a bug in the sound file addressing of the media translators. The missions can be played but you will not get the speech sounds and communication sound files which are a very important immersion element. 

Please reload the campaign (see first post) to have the two missions properly corrected.

Sorry for this inconvenience.

[Falcon41]

IckyATLAS,

     Thanks for the quick response.  Here's hoping you get the sound files figured out just as quickly.

Falcon

[Falcon41]

IckyATLAS,

     I guess I spoke too soon, for after downloading the corrected missions I found that they still ran very slowly and had the messages in them that you thought had caused the slowdown.  You might want to re-examine the file you corrected to determine if the sound elements are still included leading to the slowness of the mission.  Sorry to complain as I understand just how difficult it is to get a mission just right in the ME.  I'm building one myself at the moment and it takes a great deal of patience.  

Falcon

[Juri_JS]

The Slowdown effect is caused by too many objects with complex AI (aircraft, playable tanks). Especially aircraft with several crew positions have a huge impact. When the CPU is unable to cope, the game will slow down, even when the GPU isn't having any problems and the FPS are still fine.

 

In my campaigns I usually try to have not more than 25 aircraft active at the same time to keep the missions playable for people with older CPUs. If necessary additonal aircraft groups can the activated later, when some planes have been shot down or landed.

[Gambit21]

1 minute ago, Juri_JS said:

The Slowdown effect is caused by too many objects with complex AI (aircraft, playable tanks). Especially aircraft with several crew positions have a huge impact. When the CPU is unable to cope, the game will slow down, even when the GPU isn't having any problems and the FPS are still fine.

 

In my campaigns I usually try to have not more than 25 aircraft active at the same time to keep the missions playable for people with older CPUs. If necessary additonal aircraft groups can the activated later, when some planes have been shot down or landed.

 

Slow down, or Time Dilation (TD) is something we've been testing extensively, and it's not so simple to get a handle on unfortunately.

In other words, it doesn't come down to just too many aircraft, or too many tanks. I've had time dilation creep in with a very small number of aircraft, say only Four A-20's,(each it's own flight) but with 3 to 4 of them engaging their attack logic at once TD creeps in, or with just a handful of AA guns/searchlights in combination with these few aircraft.

 

Map also plays a part it seems. I'm having to be concerned with TD with FAR fewer units active on the Rhineland map than with the Kuban map.

TD is not an issue with my "Havoc" campaign at all despite a very large number of active aircraft and vehicles. On the Rhineland map however TD creeps in at a far smaller number of units, and it's not always consistent/not predictable.

 

I thought of this issue when Icky said "I still haven't found the limit" with regard to the editor. The limit becomes is very apparent indeed.

Bottom line, you have to be economical and building all the way to the extent of your 'vision' is just not possible in many cases.

[IckyATLAS]

Gambit is right when he says that the number of aircraft flown is not always the first TD culprit. Finding the exact cause that is the cause of the slow down is difficult, and there can be may reasons combined. This campaign tries to have a theater where you have Land, Air and Sea action that happens independently of your mission as in real life. This means you have ships, trains, convoys, planes all alive across the map. It is an ambitious target lot to handle but that was part of the initial objective and really a challenge. 

Now to be fair I did not try to reach the limits at editor level, it is simply that I did not encounter them  as I was developing the campaign. 

In my system I run between 80-90 FPS, with everything set to ULTRA or MAX and in 4K  3820x2160. Antialising is MSAA. This is my reference, which I agree is totally subjective and personal.

I know that many systems out there will have problems to handle this campaign and I have mentioned it in the initial post. New hardware will probably cope better over time and I hope too that Jason will improve the speed of his simulator.

I have not made a TD analysis at the moment, but I will do and see how it handles in my system and post results. I have some ideas to improve TD on Mission 00, but it has to be tested.

This is a WIP Campaign and all your comments are warmly welcomed.

 

[Nocke]

Having 80 or 90fps does not mean anything. The weird thing with the time delay is you can be in varying degrees of slow motion, perhaps not even noticing it, while still having high frame rates. Hosting Coops I have seen two different behaviours on overload: The"normal" one: You get the server overload message, tick delay in the server application goes up and sps down, the game stutters for the clients. The time delatation thing is different: There may be an initial server overload message, but it goes away. However the slow motion stays, but its smooth, not stuttering. And the really surprising thing is the tick delay staying at 25 or below, and the sps maintaining 50. Perhaps sometimes some slowdown mechanism kicks in, which prevents stutter, but causes slow motion?

[FaQgo_show]

Why is the campaign locked under scripted campaigns?

[WM_KMS]

4 hours ago, FaQgo_show said:

Why is the campaign locked under scripted campaigns?

Click it then continue button and it'll tell you why, you may need to buy a plane

Edited July 16, 2020 by WM_KMS

[unlikely_spider]

Is there a list of planes needed for this campaign? I don't have all of the collector planes.

[IckyATLAS]

44 minutes ago, unlikely_spider said:

Is there a list of planes needed for this campaign? I don't have all of the collector planes.

I see that I have not put the list in the ReadMe text. Will be done by tomorrow, but most of the collector planes are needed.