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oc2209

Courland Suggestion

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I've long wanted to fly the La-7 and Yak-3 in Great Battles, but it appears the possibility is remote for the near future.

 

I have an idea for a cost-effective way to get both planes into the game with a minimum amount of development. My dream scenario would be a Battle of Berlin map, with the ability to use all the Bodenplatte planes, plus new Russian planes, over the city's hellscape. Even better, would be an alt-history scenario where Russian planes could fight the Western Allies in career mode. However, all of this would be pretty involved from a development and technical (Berlin would destroy framerates?) perspective.

 

So, as a compromise, I propose a Courland mini-DLC that would cover a small portion of the region, and include the La-7, Yak-3, and perhaps the IL-10 (as a collector plane?).

 

Of course, the Courland area isn't a necessity; I'm just using it as an example. Any other mostly rural area along the Eastern Front would work.

 

Am I in a minority, in desperately wanting to fly the La-7 and Yak-3?

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Posted (edited)
On 7/1/2020 at 10:57 PM, oc2209 said:

Am I in a minority, in desperately wanting to fly the La-7 and Yak-3?

 

Nope you are not. A lot of folks hope for them to continue 1943-1945 with modules for the eastern front. It is an Il-2 game after all. Maybe we will know more, once they are close to getting BoN out of the door, which could happen somewhere 2021. The late war VVS planes certainly are very attractive.

Edited by sevenless

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On 7/1/2020 at 10:57 PM, oc2209 said:

My dream scenario would be a Battle of Berlin map, with the ability to use all the Bodenplatte planes, plus new Russian planes, over the city's hellscape. Even better, would be an alt-history scenario where Russian planes could fight the Western Allies in career mode. However, all of this would be pretty involved from a development and technical (Berlin would destroy framerates?) perspective.

 

Those are great ideas, indeed. And while Berlin itself is not possible, they could do a Battle of Seelow Heights-module and treat Berlin like they treated Moscow in the BoM-module. Pitting late war Soviet designs against late war western Allies is also tempting, especially Yak-3 vs P-51.

 

However I would prefer Courland, since I like the scenario better. And it would be an opportunity to bring the Ju 87 D5 which was stilled used up there.

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22 minutes ago, FliegerAD said:

And while Berlin itself is not possible, they could do a Battle of Seelow Heights-module and treat Berlin like they treated Moscow in the BoM-module. Pitting late war Soviet designs against late war western Allies is also tempting, especially Yak-3 vs P-51.

 

A map roughly sized Berlin-Poznan (W-E) along the Oder river (S-N) should be pretty feasible.

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Courland would be nice, although my suggestion would be East Prussia (October 1944 - May 1945). The events in the area were quite dramatic (Gumbinnen Operation, Heiligenbeil Pocket, Battle of Königsberg, Samland Offensive, Operation Hannibal). When Danzig was lost, parts of JG 51 continued to fly missions from a small pocket at the Vistula estuary until the last days of the war.

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1 hour ago, Bremspropeller said:

 

A map roughly sized Berlin-Poznan (W-E) along the Oder river (S-N) should be pretty feasible.

One extra problem for an Berlin/Poland map is the large advancements the soviets made in Vistula-Oder Offensive from Warsaw to the Oder river in 3 weeks (12-01-1945/02-02-1945), they already reached the Oder river in late January.

So if you put Berlin just outside the west end of the map most of the luftwaffe airfields are lost since they are either on the same line (North/South) as Berlin or west of Berlin after the Vistula-Oder Offensive.

 

Best would be if Berlin would be located just outside either North or South of the map.

North of Berlin could be from Hamburg till Poznan (W-E) and Berlin till the Danish border (S-N).

South of Berlin could be from Magdeburg till Poznan (W-E) and Berlin till Prague (N-S).

Both above maps are smaller compared to Rheinland/Bodenplatte so depending on the devs resources it could be expanded to include more airfields, both maps could be expanded eastward to include more soviet airfields, or for South of Berlin could be expanded westwards to include more Allied airfields.

 

North could give us several airbases for the Ta152 from mid February till end of April + some bases where the He162 where located, map is mostly flat with an coast in the North.

South only has 2 airbases for the Ta152 for 2/3 weeks, none for the He162, map is more mountainous along the Czech border so it would be an more attractive map, also operations could be extended till 11-05-1945 because of the Prague Offensive.

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17 hours ago, ww2fighter20 said:

One extra problem for an Berlin/Poland map is the large advancements the soviets made in Vistula-Oder Offensive from Warsaw to the Oder river in 3 weeks (12-01-1945/02-02-1945), they already reached the Oder river in late January.

So if you put Berlin just outside the west end of the map most of the luftwaffe airfields are lost since they are either on the same line (North/South) as Berlin or west of Berlin after the Vistula-Oder Offensive.

 

Best would be if Berlin would be located just outside either North or South of the map.

North of Berlin could be from Hamburg till Poznan (W-E) and Berlin till the Danish border (S-N).

South of Berlin could be from Magdeburg till Poznan (W-E) and Berlin till Prague (N-S).

Both above maps are smaller compared to Rheinland/Bodenplatte so depending on the devs resources it could be expanded to include more airfields, both maps could be expanded eastward to include more soviet airfields, or for South of Berlin could be expanded westwards to include more Allied airfields.

 

North could give us several airbases for the Ta152 from mid February till end of April + some bases where the He162 where located, map is mostly flat with an coast in the North.

South only has 2 airbases for the Ta152 for 2/3 weeks, none for the He162, map is more mountainous along the Czech border so it would be an more attractive map, also operations could be extended till 11-05-1945 because of the Prague Offensive.

 

I love the idea of the southern map.  This also gives us the Halle/Leuna/Merseburg area which was the scene of some of the largest air battles of the 8th AF strategic bombing campaign.  Not much use for campaign purposes, but it would be amazing for creating single player missions.

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On 7/11/2020 at 6:25 PM, ww2fighter20 said:

North could give us several airbases for the Ta152 from mid February till end of April + some bases where the He162 where located, map is mostly flat with an coast in the North.

South only has 2 airbases for the Ta152 for 2/3 weeks, none for the He162, map is more mountainous along the Czech border so it would be an more attractive map, also operations could be extended till 11-05-1945 because of the Prague Offensive.

 

Ta 152 and He 162... Not sure. I mean, I love the He 162 and I would buy it immediately. In fact I have a number of documents like the pilot manual at home. But planes like those can be perceived as power creep if not outright power fantasy by some. Some would also demand plane x (likely a Meteor, or if less historically accurate a P-80), and then we are heading straight to 1946. That being said, I would not mind a battle between the Ta 152 and the Yak-3, or a He 162 vs a Meteor.

 

Considering we have some high-performance German airplanes left, which saw more regular service, we should favour them if possible. In Courland e.g. we would have a Bf 109 G10 and a Fw 190 A9. And if I want another Tank design, it is the A9, the pinnacle of BMW 190s. And what I like about Courland is the availability of low-tech aircraft; not good for MP but nice for SP.

 

Perhaps another argument for Courland: the evacuation efforts in May 1945 was the last great operation of the German Luftwaffe in WW2; again another great SP scenario.

 

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Posted (edited)

Basically, there are enough German aircraft remaining for one last go at an Eastern Front scenario, and many of them could also be used as well on the Western Front maps:

 

  • Bf 109 G-10
  • Bf 109 G-14/AS
  • Fw 190 A-9/F-9
  • Ju 87 D-5
  • Hs 129 B-3

 

Add to the Soviet side the:

  • La-7
  • Yak-3
  • P-39Q
  • Il-2 with arrow wings
  • Tu-2

And you would have a very good planeset. And, that would still leave other planes like the Yak-9U and Il-10 to fill things out for a spring 1945 scenario. Any way you put it, there is still plenty of good material out there that could be modeled, whether early war or late war.

Edited by LukeFF
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

Basically, there are enough German aircraft remaining for one last go at an Eastern Front scenario, and many of them could also be used as well on the Western Front maps:

 

I think that's a reasonable aircraft set. However, I wonder whether it goes against the Great Battles modus operandi by only including German aircraft that are very closely related to existing variants.

 

What kind of map would you envision for this aircraft set? I can think of many Fall '44 scenarios but none are an obvious choice.

Edited by Mitthrawnuruodo

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4 hours ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

What kind of map would you envision for this aircraft set? I can think of many Fall '44 scenarios but none are an obvious choice.

 

I like the Courland scenario. It would allow for a long campaign and would allow the player to fly (on the German side) in both Bf 109 and Fw 190 units (both ground attack and fighter), along with the Ju 87. Include enough of East Prussia, and you'd have the area flown by Hs 129 B-3s. 

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12 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

I like the Courland scenario. It would allow for a long campaign and would allow the player to fly (on the German side) in both Bf 109 and Fw 190 units (both ground attack and fighter), along with the Ju 87. Include enough of East Prussia, and you'd have the area flown by Hs 129 B-3s. 

Hungary (Battle of Budapest, Operation Spring Awakening) would be another possibiliy. Although I think the Tu-2 was not active in the area, instead a late A-20 would be necessary.

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