PimaxNow Event

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Howdy folks,

 

it seems like Pimax is hosting a PimaxNow event today. The Pimax 8KX has started shipping (somewhat pricey but still humane dual 4K with wide FOV headset that won the CES 2020 award over all competition) today. 

 

It is rumored they will talk about the EyeTracking integration, which is expected to work natively on RTX 2xxx cards with Dynamic Foveated Rendering (no game support needed), handtracking, and other things. 

 

It starts here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD38JaCjWwM

 

US East Coast 2 PM

Great Britain  7 PM

EU Central 20:00

 

Just letting you know, could be interesting! Have some nice summer days guys! 

 

Fenris

Edited June 29, 2020 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

The outcome in text form:

 

https://community.openmr.ai/t/pimax-now-tldr-summary-page-aftershow-q-a-summary/28863

 

 

They will indeed have Eye-Tracking at driver level, starting to ship in July already. It has been developed by a third party. That means it should work properly in any game, including IL-2 GB. Gives around +36% performance on the GPU, avg from tests. Only works with Nvidia RTX 2xxx cards due to driver reasons (AMD does not support DFR right now, maybe they'll do in the future).

Edited June 29, 2020 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[spitfirejoe]

The Dynamic Foveated Rendering Looks nice...……..I also like the hand tracking device.

I hope Pimax gets everything sorted right now with built quality and delivering process without any delays.

Edited June 30, 2020 by spitfirejoe

[TCW_Brzi_Joe]

The Dynamic Foveated Rendering is answer how to go above 4k per eye. And all that in driver level. Nice one Pimax.

 

[spitfirejoe]

I had never the chance to try a Pimax myself in real. The long Video presentation yesterday catched my interest though. There are many new cool features and items added to the Pimax world.

I was always sceptical about the concept of a 2 times 4k resolution, because of tough PC hardware requirements. But coming along with dynamic Foveated rendering based on drivers is a good game changer.

 

[TCW_Brzi_Joe]

@spitfirejoe Pimax 8kx allegedly needs no supersampling; I use now with supersampled 5k+ similar resolution, so I am ready for 8kx. With DFR you can go much much higher, if cable allows it.

But they have since yesterday also optical cable for data transfer, I can't wait to see what that can do.

[coconut]

Don't get too excited about PiMax' foveated rendering, dynamic or fixed. It works with IL-2 for a few minutes then crashes the game. It works with DCS but with minuscule benefits (for me, at least). I don't remember it working with Elite Dangerous. But maybe it's a new implementation that works better, driver-level instead of in-app injection? They say it's based on NVidia's VRSS (or whatever it's called, not sure of the name), but previous attempts to get that to work with IL-2 weren't very conclusive. It worked for me but was useless, and just didn't work for everybody else. I think I've read VRSS doesn't play well with deferred shading.

But then there's another technique called VRS, and that looks more interesting. Maybe that's the technique PiMax is using?

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

That's because FFR was their own makeshift solution, injection in OpenVR or App, don't know. The one we talk about now, for 7Invensun's Eye-Tracking in Pimax 8KX is on driver level and uses VRS provided by DX12 API.

 

So basically all VR games feature it natively. The system is fully fleshed out and stable. The company 7Invensun developed and builds the ET as their core competency. All Nvidia RTX 2xxx cards support VRS (AMD does not, but maybe in the future, they have driver problems).

 

 

I don't remember right now, is IL-2 on DX12? Should be, right? Has been released 2014. 

 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[coconut]

2 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

I don't remember right now, is IL-2 on DX12? Should be, right? Has been released 2014. 

IL-2 is DX11. It was 32-bit DX9 when it was released, IIRC.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

DX11 is from 2009... 

 

 

Edit to the Edit:

 

Seems like VRS does support DX11 too 

https://developer.nvidia.com/vrworks/graphics/variablerateshading

 

According to Nvidia. Needs RTX 2xxx though. Need to read up on that. Not these weeks though, maybe second half of next month. I'm ordering the Eye-Tracker as well and will give my review of how it works in games then as well, comes the time. They start shipping in July.

Edited June 30, 2020 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[Alonzo]

The performance numbers that Sweviver posted are unfortunately only a basic demo. The eye tracking actually does a whole lot better than just +36% performance, but the headset was hitting its 75hz framerate cap. Some of the sequences in SkyrimVR were running at < 10ms GPU frame time, which would be > 100 unconstrained FPS.

 

It's obviously going to depend on the game, but I think the $200 eye tracking module (if games with DFR are stable) is going to be more than the difference between a 2080 and 2080ti. That's huge. Heck, if I can iron out the rest of the kinks with my Artisan (1700x1440 per eye) I'd get an eye tracker just to be able to run IL2 in Parallel Projection mode and 4x MSAA.

[chiliwili69]

Looks they made some progress. It is nice to have the Pimax guys always breaking the ice into VR unexplored territories. 

I hope other major VR companies follow their steps in FOV, resolution and eye tracking developements. But not in pricing... ?

 

One think it realy surprises me is that the Pimax8K/5K+ had about 6000+ backers IIRC. But for the 8KX there is ONLY 500. How this can be possible??

[spitfirejoe]

Alonzo........here it was said that the Dynamice Foveated Rendering from Pimax will not work with IL-2 because it must use DirectX12 and IL-2 uses Dx11.

Is that correct? If yes that would be a huge downside. The DFR concept sounds really promising and I would like to have that aswell.

1 minute ago, chiliwili69 said:

Looks they made some progress. It is nice to have the Pimax guys always breaking the ice into VR unexplored territories. 

I hope other major VR companies follow their steps in FOV, resolution and eye tracking developements. But not in pricing... ?

 

One think it realy surprises me is that the Pimax8K/5K+ had about 6000+ backers IIRC. But for the 8KX there is ONLY 500. How this can be possible??

 

I heard that many former Pimax backers don´t trust them anymore, because the built quality of their first headsets were bad and people had to wait for ages to get their promised HMD, lots of long delays and besides all that the customer support was crap. I don´t know how the situation is now.

 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Yeah, Dx11 is from 2009. Dx12 exists since 2014... that may be a problem. I don't know whether it'll work for IL-2 yet, but I'll get Eye-Tracker anyway. There are more titles than this, and the large mass of titles will support it.

 

 

There are some Pimax backers that are very vocal and had mistaken what it means to kickstart a start-up company for buying a finished product - in 2018. I had a 5K+ Serial No 203 before built in March 2019, which I RMA'd - that was problem-ridden and hair-pulling indeed. The build-quality is much better nowadays, I had received a great 5K+ SN204 built in October 2019, that had no distortion, no cracks, proper alignment of lenses, good fitting. It also had better screens, which didn't waste pixels like the older versions. Hence, a sharper picture even. I had mounted Comfort Kit and Vive DAS to it, and the thing just worked very well, like you'd expect. I've just sold it, expecting the 8KX in July, but I already miss it. Fantastic unit, and the one that made me send back my first Index. It was the unit that convinced me to order 8KX.

 

From what I can tell Pimax have built a proper assembly line now in their own factory on which the 8KX is getting produced, and proper quality control.

 

 

Excourse:

Same story like with Virpil in Belorussia. Their first bases and sticks were problem ridden, basically garage-assembled, the stock for Europe at the home of a guy at the border to Belorussia in Lithuania. I talked with him, I was a first hour customer (and spied on his address via google maps, hence I know lol, didn't trust this unknown company back then!). They have since moved into a proper factory building, a picture of how this thing ramped up can be seen here:

https://virpil-controls.eu/news/post/2-years-in-review/

 

From what you'd call Garage assembly and some forwarder guy importing to the EU at the border and storing boxes in his living room to this. Amazing!

Edited July 1, 2020 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Update:

 

Just got confirmed that Pimax has automatized optical alignment for the production models of the 8KX before starting batch 1. That'll keep things in line as distortion due to misaligned panels, lenses, unfitting distortion profiles, basically what MRTV experienced with his pre-production model, but what was not there for him during CES2020.

 

It also means he wasn't lying when he or his testers said there was distortion, after the fallout he had with Pimax - his pre-production/prototype-8KX was hand-assembled and didn't get its own distortion profile.

 

It seems I'm within the first 200 upgraders (after 400 backers) that will receive the 8KX in July, so I can probably tell soon enough.

Edited July 1, 2020 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[Alonzo]

12 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

One think it realy surprises me is that the Pimax8K/5K+ had about 6000+ backers IIRC. But for the 8KX there is ONLY 500. How this can be possible??

 

8KX was the most expensive backer option, so I guess less people would choose it. I think also, because of delays, Pimax offered downgrade options and pushed the 5K+ quite hard, so that might be the reason too.

 

9 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

There are some Pimax backers that are very vocal and had mistaken what it means to kickstart a start-up company for buying a finished product - in 2018.

 

Exactly this. I just found out yesterday that one of the moderators for the /r/Pimax Reddit is one of the loudest anti-Pimax voices on there. He claims to be "giving information to people" but mostly it's just shit-disturbing and causing an issue. Pimax have pulled out of the sub and created their own new official subreddit. Apparently (based on prior behavior from Pimax employees) the new sub might end up being a utopian happy place where no bad news or disagreement is allowed, but it says something that they've abandoned a 5,000 subscriber sub due to the moderator's actions.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Yeah true. Well some have been waiting for a long time so I do understand their feeling. However, moderating a Reddit against the company and keep pushing sh'tposts it's kind of getting old. Pimax had its birth problems. Most startups fail. They are delivering now, got professional manufacturing for the 8KX (and 8K+, Artisan too now) and we'll see how that turns out then. 

 

I'm very curious about it.

[Alonzo]

On 7/2/2020 at 2:03 PM, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Yeah true. Well some have been waiting for a long time so I do understand their feeling. However, moderating a Reddit against the company and keep pushing sh'tposts it's kind of getting old. Pimax had its birth problems. Most startups fail. They are delivering now, got professional manufacturing for the 8KX (and 8K+, Artisan too now) and we'll see how that turns out then.

 

I want to give them the benefit of the doubt, but my brand new Artisan already has two hairline cracks forming in the housing. They made a lot of noise about fixing the problems, but they clearly have not. I've done nothing but baby the headset, so I'm quite disappointed. Their big noise about fixing the cracking, and then it happening to me within one week, makes me trust them a lot less. I can see how disillusioned owners could turn into mostly-Pimax-bashing on Reddit.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Ah damn, I thought they had fixed that as well. That is rather annoying. Did you have the black case? Well, best to immediately open a ticket then, or send it back to the seller if you can still return it. 

 

I realize I have been incredibly lucky with that 5K+ unit. Good lenses, no distortion, no pixel issues, no cracks, no issues.. I account that to luck by now. 

 

Pimax has only one chance with me with the 8KX. If they mess it up, I'll look elsewhere. Got an HP G2 on pre-order as a backup.

Edited July 5, 2020 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[fiddlinjim]

2 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Ah damn, I thought they had fixed that as well. That is rather annoying. Did you have the black case? Well, best to immediately open a ticket then, or send it back to the seller if you can still return it. 

 

I realize I have been incredibly lucky with that 5K+ unit. Good lenses, no distortion, no pixel issues, no cracks, no issues.. I account that to luck by now. 

 

Pimax has only one chance with me with the 8KX. If they mess it up, I'll look elsewhere. Got an HP G2 on pre-order as a backup.

My 5K+ unit continues to perform beautifully with daily use and never had a serious issue.   

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Yeah. It really is a bit of a lottery. From what I have heard, 9 out of 10 are fine and that they have shipped "a low 5-digit number of headsets", of which hundreds have issues. There was an entire bad batch of casings going around. I still don't understand it how they couldn't get and trash them. Probably didn't keep docs, checks and numbers on what part came out of which batch in their stock.