IAR 80/81

[Cybermat47]

Actually, we do know that Roumania was allies with Germany, then King Michael staged a coup against Antonescu when the Russians began driving the Axis out of Romania, Romanian forces then supported the Red Army, and that the country then fell into the Soviet sphere of influence because the western powers weren’t willing to defend eastern Europe against the Soviets.

 

The thing is, though... none of that has anything to do with getting the IAR into the game.

[Aap]

1 hour ago, crristy19712 said:

... France ... France ... France ... France ... France ... France 

 

I see you have some kind of issue about France. Are there too many French planes in the game or what is your problem related to IAR and France about the game?

Anyway, many people have stated here and in previous topics that they would like to have IAR's in the game. It just seems that you are more interested in running some kind of political-historical agenda here than talking about IAR's, so would not really surprise me, if that topic ended up locked.

[crristy19712]

You dont understand or you wont...is your problem...beside i dont have nothing with France...i sed historycall point of wiew...and i repeat...you cant make a game where you say authentic 100% some battles or some maps without some important things...and when try to fix...that was what i sed...but some of you dont understand english i belive

[Cybermat47]

16 minutes ago, crristy19712 said:

but some of you dont understand english i belive

 

 

[Jaws2002]

I stand by my statement. It's enough to look at the ROF release schedule to know how the team does things. Start with the most famous planes and then add planes based on potential sales, regardless of their place in history. 

 As i said many years ago, when they were working out the plane set for Stalingrad, we have better chance to get tempest and Me262, than planes actually fought at Stalingrad...And i was right.

  

4 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

That's a bunch of dramatic nonsense, and you know it.  Every_single_plane modeled since the time Kuban was announced fits each scenario just fine. 

 

   Is it?  

 

They start the tank sims with the Tiger.....They start Flying Circus with the latest Spad and the Dr.1

 

This is how they always did things.

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, LF_ManuV said:

That a plane from your country is not in the game does not mean that the team wants only airplanes that sell more. I would like to have every option but that statement makes you a little bit selfish, right?

 

 

I'm Canadian. I left Romania twenty years ago.

[Jaws2002]

6 hours ago, PB_Cybermat47 said:

 

 

It’s a good thing that Roumania and Italy are both in the game, then.

 

 

 

I think I did a version of that as well. Cool and colorful 109. I think it was my first Emil skin.

 

 

 

 

 

[LukeFF]

5 hours ago, Jaws2002 said:

Is it?  

 

They start the tank sims with the Tiger.....They start Flying Circus with the latest Spad and the Dr.1

 

This is how they always did things.

 

And [edited] is wrong with that? All of them were relevant to the battles being simulated. I mean, seriously, how the hell can you argue about the Spad 13? Practically the entire French fighter air arm flew the thing! 

 

Good lord man, you really need to let this manufactured anger go. 

Edited August 23, 2018 by SYN_Haashashin

[Asgar]

but they're widely liked planes! you can't just start with those, you have to build suspense /s

[LukeFF]

3 hours ago, Jaws2002 said:

As i said many years ago, when they were working out the plane set for Stalingrad, we have better chance to get tempest and Me262, than planes actually fought at Stalingrad...And i was right.

 

Yes, we are getting those planes long after Stalingrad. So freaking what? You expect them to remain modeling the Stalingrad front indefinitely?

 

Go load up career mode and see how many planes one can choose from. The list is staggering. 

[Jaws2002]

59 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Asgar said:

but they're widely liked planes! you can't just start with those, you have to build suspense /s

 

 

Exactly!  

  

 This is the most anti-climatic way to work your way through a plane set. This team starts all their games with the latest monsters.

 

[crristy19712]

Yes..ok i understand now!

[LukeFF]

4 hours ago, crristy19712 said:

Atunci ma intelegi si pe mine de ce nu sunt de acord...dar banuiam ce mi ai spus si acum imi confirmi...iti multumesc de intelegere si te rog sa nu fi suparat pe mine ca sunt atat de inversunat mai ales ca imi place ce fac acesti baieti cu jocul,si de aceea cer atat de mult!

Toti au avioanele lor peste tot in jocuri...numai ale noastre sunt marginalizate..ca si in istorie...stiu ca EA este scrisa de cei puternici si de invingatori si conform intereselor lor..dar totusi!

 

The language of this forum is English. 

 

6 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

This team starts all their games with the latest monsters.

 

Their business, their decisions. They're still here after all this time, so apparently they're doing something right. What did you expect them to start Flying Circus with, the RE8?

 

Oh, and Bodenplatte has started with some of the least-performing planes. That Tempest and the 262 you like to bitch about? Still collecting research and the last plane to be modeled, respectively. 

 

Come on, man, get your facts straight. 

Edited August 23, 2018 by LukeFF

[Dutchvdm]

4 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

The language of this forum is English. 

 

Their business, their decisions. They're still here after all this time, so apparently they're doing something right. What did you expect them to start Flying Circus with, the RE8?

 

I’m with Luke here... I don’t like the 1918 planeset, but the majority does. My favorite would be the Fe2b, but i also understand that from a business standpoint those planes are not viable for a new productline.

 

Grt M

[Rjel]

15 hours ago, crristy19712 said:

IARs... not make money, but Ju-52 and Po-2 yes....i live dark days!Limited resurces and time...stupid scusses and lies i belive!here in my country i no at least 20 people ho wanted to buy and play IL-2 Battle of Stalingrad...but enside with IARs...i no manny here in virtual world the same....i think at least 100 peoples arrownd the world deserve to buy and have this plane...right?I hope and i belive one day soon...developers will give to IARs the right plase in this game!

20 people? 100 people? I guess that'll make the development team jump on the IAR-80, won't it? It would be an ok plane to have but it isn't in the same league as the Russian or German planes, in quality or in numbers. Leave out a LaGG, MiG or the Bf-109 and you would have an incomplete sim.

[crristy19712]

You can play one sim Il_2 with historic maps above Channel above England without Spitfire or Hurricane???I dont think so...thats why Battle of Stalingrad must to have IARs and Italian bombers and fighters...when you say authentics maps and missions like it was 75-80 years ago...you must put everithing in right plase...right???This is my opinion and for sure..IARs was a good fighters even against odds...

IARs made it history even some today dont want to recognize this!!!

[Dutchvdm]

You do understand that the devs have to make hard choices about the planes they are going to make for every scenario? I'm sure that if money and time weren't an issue there would be plenty of Romanian and Italian aircraft already. Keeping that in mind... How would your 10 vs 10 plane-set look like for the battle of Stalingrad?

 

Grt M

 

PS: For the BOM collectors plane there was a vote between the Mc202 and the IAR81.

Edited August 24, 2018 by I./ZG1_Martijnvdm

[crristy19712]

Guys for construction of the game im not person ho must talk here...ok?But i belive is important to keep in mind accuracy of the game when you say 100% historycal battles,missions and maps!Just say and make SF game, explain this for fans,and thats it!

[crristy19712]

General Ioan Dicezare, passed away August 10th, 2012, 2 days shy of his 96th birthday,

he was the last survivor of ”Grupp 7 Fighters”

pilots who managed to escape the Stalingrad encirclement.

Rest in peace, General! 500 combat missions 45 victorys confirmed

i will put here,all Aces from my Country to see how was Roumanian Fighters in the WW II...and how speak about them entire world...how manny acts of bravery etc... i hope you will enjoy guys!

[Asgar]

5 hours ago, crristy19712 said:

You can play one sim Il_2 with historic maps above Channel above England without Spitfire or Hurricane???I dont think so...thats why Battle of Stalingrad must to have IARs and Italian bombers and fighters...when you say authentics maps and missions like it was 75-80 years ago...you must put everithing in right plase...right???This is my opinion and for sure..IARs was a good fighters even against odds...

IARs made it history even some today dont want to recognize this!!!

mate... no, the IAR simply isn't as important as you want to believe... 436 or so were build... that's less than the least common variant of the Bf 109.  between December '44 and April '45 the Germans build more G-14s (while still building G-6s, G-10s and K-4s than the Romanians ever build IARs. Most Romanian pilots were flying German planes anyway and that is very well reflected in game. Pretending that the IAR had an bigger impact than the 109 F-4 or G-2 at Stalingrad is simply dillusional and doesn't help you bring across your point at all. 

Edited August 24, 2018 by 6./ZG26_Asgar

[crristy19712]

Is not important how manny was build in front of Me-109...important it was the impact, damage inflicted in aerial battles above Roumania,Rusia,Hungary,and Cehoslovakya..ok?He fighted against most powerfull airplains in the world...(B-17,B-24,P-38J,P-47,and P-51B over Roumania 43`-44` hundreds shot down and USA don t forget never that fights)and over Rusia the same, from 41`-44`all tipes...Against Germany Aug.44`-45 (Me-109 G and K all series FW-190 A-5,A-8 and D-9 Dora a dozens kills confirmed)..After the war Russians killed or put in death camps allmoust all Aces or pilots ho have toghether hundreds victorys...on this Eagles and Bombers or Me-109 fighters (E,G2 and G6)thats why you don t no nothing about them and own profesionalism...pls read history before talk..ok?How manny Countries have it by own ariplanes in WW II and good one??? Few...so pls im proud... verry...Ofcourse manny pilots dead in combat over Europe in 4 years of war in this beautifull and special plane...too soon exceeded...don t forget in Sept.39`was the 3rd fighter in the world...i don t spoke for me this...but History!!!

[Asgar]

you seriously wanna tell us that Romanian IARs shot down "hundreds of B17s"? If you can bring me one source that was not printed during the Romanian dictatorship i  might believe you

in september 39 it was third fighter in the world? what? first of all, the first fighters were build in WW1, second of all, the IAR-80 entered service in February of 1940

Edited August 24, 2018 by 6./ZG26_Asgar

[LuftManu]

Can't wait to shoot down ME 262, F-15s and F-22s in a IAR 80.

 

 

 

 

/S

Edited August 24, 2018 by LF_ManuV

[crristy19712]

Asgar pls read one of the manny...(And is not Comunist information...Comunist Party and Russians hate it Royal Roumanian Air Force after the war so much because in school i didn t no nothing till 89 about awer History in WW II...ownly what wanted THEM!)So pls...try someone else...Read about TIDAL WAVE above Ploiesti Rafinerys in 1943...(Americans speak)read about awer Pilots and how manny victorys gain beetwin 41`-45 and awer AA...and in that first mission above Roumania how manny Bombers B-24 losses...Read about all Americans missions above Roumania and how manny losses inflicted RRAF..in special that IARs...till then before talk..READ!Exist Wikipedia...and don t forget IS IMPORTANT..HISTORY is made it by winners..allways,,right???

[Asgar]

okay, the 3 highest scoring Romanian aces:
Constantin Cantacuzino 69 total, 43 confirmed kills (flying Bf 109, later P-51)

Alecandru Serbanescu 47 confirmed kills (flying 109 mostly and some IAR 80, which isn't even further specified in the article i could find)
Ion Milu 45 total kills (couldn't find an other info on him)

that puts the 3 top scoring Romanian aces in the lower middle of axis aces, and mostly in Bf 109s. 

I know you really want the IAR to be super important, but in the grand scheme of WW2, it really wasn't.
It is interesting and i would like to see it in game some day, but to say the BoS can't work without it is just wrong.

Edited August 24, 2018 by 6./ZG26_Asgar

[crristy19712]

you no to count?Ownly this 3 you find it shot down 135 plains(west official count)...but it is 30 at list another Roumanian Pilots fighter there,with (beetwin 5 and 15 victorys)...ALL OF THEM TOGHETHER shot down(it means what i sed) HUNDREDS...And Prince Bazu Cantacuzino one flight was with P-51B in return home from FOGGIA where one American Colonel try it to fly the Me-109 G6 of Cantacuzino and crashing on landing...that was in 27 Aug 1944 when Roumania return Prisoniers of war crewmans of Bombers or Fighters..(1110 prisoniers)Cantacuzino was on Foggia send it with one big American Commander Colonel shot down over Roumania 2-3 month ago...in thanks and respect for this PILOT ACE..Americans give him to return home one P-51 escorted by another 4 P-51s...AND IF YOU WEST PEOPLES DON T WANT TO NO THE TRUTH OR YOU DON T NO...pls ASK or try to read about Axes Pilots ok?By the way..the most good pilot of USA ACE ower Europe..how manny victory have???Or English..or Russian?Now i now you don t like verry much the truth...

[LuftManu]

This is getting hilarious. I respect the pilots and history but the IAR 80 wasn't that important overall in the conflict. That doesen't mean I want it less than other types or that Romanian pilots did not do well in the conflict. You are mixing oranges and apples.

[Rjel]

11 minutes ago, LF_ManuV said:

This is getting hilarious. I respect the pilots and history but the IAR 80 wasn't that important overall in the conflict. That doesen't mean I want it less than other types or that Romanian pilots did not do well in the conflict. You are mixing oranges and apples.

Well that does reflect the world in general right now, considering that facts are not facts and the truth is really only a perception....

 

Romania had an odd way of crediting victories also. Multi engined aircraft counted as more than one kill. It's difficult to know what some of their aces actual kill totals actually were.  

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Rjel
spelling

[crristy19712]

look here one example...100 US fighters P-38 attacked on 10 June 1944 the base of Popeşti-Leordeni, defended by the 6th Hunting Group, led by the pilot Dan Vizanty. In just 12 minutes, Vizanty's pilots, with 36 Romanian IAR-80 planes, fled the Americans, writing a glorious page in the history of the Second World War.Hunting pilot Dan Vizanty, born in Botosani region, was one of the Romanian military aircrafts of the first half of the 20th century, alongside Constantin "Bâzu" Cantacuzino, Alexandru Şerbănescu Ioan Milu,and others.A legend of World War II on June 10, 1944, Vizanty, who led the 6th Popeşti-Leordeni Group of Hunting, near the capital, was the artisan of one of the darkest days of American aviation, which he had knocked over 20 flight machines. The courage and skill of the Romanian pilot, who had the madness of an actor and the lightning of a lightning, made him one of the most frightened, but even more respected opponents in the air. On the Eastern Front, in the struggles with the Soviet pilots, he gained the reputation of "The Wolf of the Carpathians".After the war, he was thrown into communist prisons, after which he worked as a crane or farm worker. His salvation then came from the President of France, Charles de Gaulle, with the support of whom Dan Vizanty left Romania in 1977 and never returned. He died in Paris in 1992 at the age of 82.On June 11, 1944, the American newspapers Denver Post and Boston Herald reported on a painful defeat of United States aviation over Romania during World War II: 24 Lightning P -38J were shot down the day before, on 10 June 1944, by German aviation near the Ploiesti oil field.In 24 hours, pictures and drawings on site would change the data of the problem. Newspapers in Chicago, Boston, New York, and Washington presented pictures of the group that struggled among US military aviation. They were, in fact, Romanian airplanes IAR-80, and the artisan of this victory was Romanian Dan Vizanty, commander of the 6th Popeşti-Leordeni hunting group.The military pilot who received the reputation of the "The Fear of the Lightning" after this battle has severely damaged or damaged that day 13 US fighter . Not by accident, American author Thomas McKelvey Cleaver, in the "Air Fight Annals," called that day "Blackest Day". Richard "Dick" Wilsie, a US aviator who participated in the raid on June 10, 1944, declared, according to the book "Journey of Flight," by the same McKelvey Cleaver: "That day I felt as if the sky had fallen over we. We felt on our skin that we were beaten badly. " Vizanty wrote on that day one of the most glorious pages of the history of Romanian military aviation with his IAR-80 plane, engraved on the line 344.

[Rjel]

2 minutes ago, crristy19712 said:

look here one example...100 US fighters P-38 attacked on 10 June 1944 the base of Popeşti-Leordeni, defended by the 6th Hunting Group, led by the pilot Dan Vizanty. In just 12 minutes, Vizanty's pilots, with 36 Romanian IAR-80 planes, fled the Americans, writing a glorious page in the history of the Second World War.Hunting pilot Dan Vizanty, born in Botosani region, was one of the Romanian military aircrafts of the first half of the 20th century, alongside Constantin "Bâzu" Cantacuzino, Alexandru Şerbănescu Ioan Milu,and others.A legend of World War II on June 10, 1944, Vizanty, who led the 6th Popeşti-Leordeni Group of Hunting, near the capital, was the artisan of one of the darkest days of American aviation, which he had knocked over 20 flight machines. The courage and skill of the Romanian pilot, who had the madness of an actor and the lightning of a lightning, made him one of the most frightened, but even more respected opponents in the air. On the Eastern Front, in the struggles with the Soviet pilots, he gained the reputation of "The Wolf of the Carpathians".After the war, he was thrown into communist prisons, after which he worked as a crane or farm worker. His salvation then came from the President of France, Charles de Gaulle, with the support of whom Dan Vizanty left Romania in 1977 and never returned. He died in Paris in 1992 at the age of 82.On June 11, 1944, the American newspapers Denver Post and Boston Herald reported on a painful defeat of United States aviation over Romania during World War II: 24 Lightning P -38J were shot down the day before, on 10 June 1944, by German aviation near the Ploiesti oil field.In 24 hours, pictures and drawings on site would change the data of the problem. Newspapers in Chicago, Boston, New York, and Washington presented pictures of the group that struggled among US military aviation. They were, in fact, Romanian airplanes IAR-80, and the artisan of this victory was Romanian Dan Vizanty, commander of the 6th Popeşti-Leordeni hunting group.The military pilot who received the reputation of the "The Fear of the Lightning" after this battle has severely damaged or damaged that day 13 US fighter . Not by accident, American author Thomas McKelvey Cleaver, in the "Air Fight Annals," called that day "Blackest Day". Richard "Dick" Wilsie, a US aviator who participated in the raid on June 10, 1944, declared, according to the book "Journey of Flight," by the same McKelvey Cleaver: "That day I felt as if the sky had fallen over we. We felt on our skin that we were beaten badly. " Vizanty wrote on that day one of the most glorious pages of the history of Romanian military aviation with his IAR-80 plane, engraved on the line 344.

 

I've got to be honest, having read a book written in both Romanian and English, there is a lot lost in the translation. You're writings follow the same patterns. 

[Asgar]

aand? i'm not sure what those claims are supposed to mean for why we need the IAR to make BoS correct.

just like the "Romanian aces have hundreds of kills" so had Erich Hartmann, by himself

[crristy19712]

Asgar from where you are?If you are from Germany..respect!i no well German Aces and im proud with them...and must you no..THE BEST FRIENDS OF THEM was...ROUMANIAN PILOTS..why???Because fighted toghether 4 hard years... nowing well eachother and if you read German Acess speak with verry much RESPECT about Roumania and pilots...please don t be selfish and recognize the truth...IAR-80 and 81c was a good fighter plane against all odds...Hartmann sed one time...IS NOT IMPORTANT MUCH IN FIGHT THE PLANE...BUT PILOT!

And i belive him!

[Aap]

[crristy19712]

JG77_Kemp...i see you!

is a joke..no offense,no hard fillings

 

[SYN_Haashashin]

Hi all,

 

Locked until I have the time to read all and most probably send some PMs...

 

Haash

[RideroftheMark]

Would be awesome to have the IAR 80 in BoS

[Eicio]

Black magic is at work here....

[SOLIDKREATE]

I think the plane modules in here work with real wind tunnel data and real NACA profiles. To make this plane would require that mathematical information which may not be available. The team would also need Operations Manuals as well and other data like Pilot Notes. I'd like to see it too to make some early war missions but we have to respect their efforts. They have given us high quality flight models and I do not think they will settle for anything made "half-assed".

[CrazyDuck]

52 minutes ago, SPEKTRE76 said:

I'd like to see it too to make some early war missions 

Not only early war and not only Soviet opponents. In 1943 Romanian IARs have been intercepting USAAF heavies quite effectively, and as late as June 1944 they clashed with USAAF P-38s, both sides suffering severe losses. Only in July 1944 they were withdrawn from service.

 

That said, I agree fully on the "half-assed" point.

Edited January 11, 2019 by CrazyDuck

[DD_Arthur]

1 hour ago, SPEKTRE76 said:

I think the plane modules in here work with real wind tunnel data and real NACA profiles.

 

Hmmm....did anyone really put a U-2VS in a wind tunnel?

[Chief_Mouser]

22 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

Hmmm....did anyone really put a U-2VS in a wind tunnel?

 

Surely it would come out backwards?