IAR 80/81

[150GCT_Veltro]

No disrespect intended, each has his/her own interests. More aircraft would be great, but we already have some variety. Personally, I'd sooner pay for a Crimea map than another aircraft. For me, a wider variety of terrain would bring more interest.

 

Yes, but IAR is a must have for ETO.

 

You have variety adding Italians and Romanians who were there with their hown Aviations.

Edited January 26, 2017 by 150GCT_Veltro

[E69_julian57]

Hi, I really like this plane.

I hope to see you at the BoS

[LLv34_Temuri]

Would buy it. Nice looking plane, and I like it in Il-2 1946.

[ShamrockOneFive]

The question of what to pair a theoretical offering of the IAR80/81 with? Hrmm... for the early war the I-153 vs IAR80 on the Odessa map would be superbly interesting. For something more middle of the road I would love to see the Hurricane show up so Hurricane Mark II vs IAR80/81 would be interesting. It could be a mismatch... IAR80/81 and the Li-2.

 

All of these would be interesting additions to the series. I know there is still the desire out there to see the Bf109G-6 and La-5F. The team may elect to do those between BoK and Midway simply because they are based on previous models and wouldn't need a redo. But I don't want to discourage the cool ideas here either. Either way I'd be interested in some more Collector Planes to add to the mix.

[Chief_Mouser]

Wasn't the C version simply the B with the bomb racks removed?

In fact, seeing as armament was really the only major differences between the IAR 80 and 81 models it would be simple to model the whole lot as one plane: IAR 80A & B, IAR 81A, B & C using  'Unlocks'   for the different options.

Definitely a needed Collector plane - I'm in.

Cheers.

Edited January 26, 2017 by 216th_Cat

[jeanba]

I had voted for this plane as a bonus plane for BoS

[BlitzPig_EL]

The IAR and the I-153 would be a package made in heaven.

 

Historical side note...

 

Take a close look at the tail section of the IAR 80/81.   To some of you it will look, ummm... familiar.

 

NO cookies or kittens awarded for guessing it's origins, but it is just another interesting facet of this aircraft.

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

Pzl11, iirc.

[Finkeren]

Pzl11, iirc.

PZL 24 actually

[Jaws2002]

Wasn't the C version simply the B with the bomb racks removed?

In fact, seeing as armament was really the only major differences between the IAR 80 and 81 models it would be simple to model the whole lot as one plane: IAR 80A & B, IAR 81A, B & C using  'Unlocks'   for the different options.

Definitely a needed Collector plane - I'm in.

Cheers.

 

The IAR-80 was the fighter and the 81 was made as dive bomber. Not just fighter bomber, but dedicated dive bomber, with dive brake, automatic dive recovery, swing to throw the bomb outside the propeler arc during the dive and  bombs. 

 it all started with the IAR80. it had four 7.92mm Belgian made FN Browning machine guns. No bombs. THen came the 80A models with six of the same guns. then the 80B with four 7.92mm FN Brownings and a pair of 13.2mm FN Brownings. Then came the iar-81 armed like the IAR-80A (six machineguns) plus dive bombing equipment. It could carry a single 250kg bomb on center swing and a pair of 50kg bombs on the wings.

  Next up was IAR-80C, armed with four mgs plus a pair of Icaria MG-FF cannons. The last one and the most numerous, was the IAR-81C armed with a pair of belt fed MG-151/20 cannons and a pair of 7.92mm FN brownings, plus the same bombing equipment as the IAR-81.  Most of the 81C's once they got to the units had the dive bombing equipment removed and were used as fighters, otr fighter bombers, since Romania was getting Stukas from Germany by that time.

  In 1944 around a hundred earlier IAR-80s were up armed to the 81C standard, but without bomb equipment. This planes were renamed IAR-80M.

 

I agree with you that the whole series can be made with the unlocks.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Jaws2002

[EAF19_Marsh]

Would buy that, the Hurri and the I-153 (and Hs 123).

 

'Crap Planes' [ie Relatively Forgotten] FTW!

[Dutchvdm]

I would really like to know how many times these single planes need to be sold to be profitable. I think that would give some context on how realistic some of these collecter request are.

 

Grt M

Btw: I would buy this one as well.

[BlitzPig_EL]

PZL 24 actually

 

Ding! Ding! Ding!

[Jaws2002]

Ding! Ding! Ding!

 

 

  PZL P.24 was being built under licence by the Romanian  IAR factory. That's where the inspiration for the rear fuselage and rudder comes from.

[Finkeren]

"Inspiration" is to put it gently. They pretty much copied the rudder, tailfin and rear fuselage 1:1.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Finkeren

[URUAker]

Yes, but IAR is a must have for ETO.

 

You have variety adding Italians and Romanians who were there with their hown Aviations.

 

OMG!!! so much awesomeness in one picture!! IAR80/81 one of my favourites in 1946 also mc200

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

This plane sounds interesting, how's the timeline of the different variants? More or less to get which one would be in the different battles.

[Finkeren]

This plane sounds interesting, how's the timeline of the different variants? More or less to get which one would be in the different battles.

All the variants of the IAR 80 were available for the BoM timeline. The IAR 81s all fit BoS and later. By the time of BoK there were probably not many 80s left in service.

 

The problem with modeling this aircraft is the very small production numbers of each variant. Basically only the IAR 81C represents more than 100 airframes in total.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

All the variants of the IAR 80 were available for the BoM timeline. The IAR 81s all fit BoS and later. By the time of BoK there were probably not many 80s left in service.

 

The problem with modeling this aircraft is the very small production numbers of each variant. Basically only the IAR 81C represents more than 100 airframes in total.

 

Were the differences between the variants majorly substantial or are we talking G-2 vs G-4 differences?

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAR_80

 

Primarily armament and some features, but not only. IAR 81C was final fighter development and for sure would be a great addition. But I wonder, are there any decent writings about it ? About aircraft characteristics, features and how pilots experienced flying it ? Basically I wonder, from pilots perspective, what would make this aircraft unique, since I knew it for a long time but did not find much about its characteristics to be honest. 

[Chief_Mouser]

All the variants of the IAR 80 were available for the BoM timeline. The IAR 81s all fit BoS and later. By the time of BoK there were probably not many 80s left in service.

 

The problem with modeling this aircraft is the very small production numbers of each variant. Basically only the IAR 81C represents more than 100 airframes in total.

 

Quick look through Wikipedia suggests

 

IAR 80A - 50

IAR 80B - 50

IAR 81A -  50

IAR 81B - 60

IAR 81C - 150

 

although the production lines seem to have been modified as they went along, so some of one variant may well have been finished as, and included in, the number of aircraft of another.

Forget the M series as it was an upgrading of the surviving airframes to IAR 81C standard in 1944.

 

All told, not many, but still a great and fun aircraft for us to have.

 

Cheers.

[Notclear]

I think we can forget the IAR 81C too, they arrived when the IAR 80/81 were all send in defense of Romania  after the end of battle of Stalingrad in mid-january 43. Romanian fighters in East front after spring 43 are only Bf 109G

The only fights against soviets aircrafts for IAR81C were between the 20 and 25 August 1944.

 

I can be wrong, to be confirmed.

 

I apologize for my bad english.

[Jaws2002]

Quick look through Wikipedia suggests

 

IAR 80A - 50

IAR 80B - 50

IAR 81A - 50

IAR 81B - 60

IAR 81C - 150

 

although the production lines seem to have been modified as they went along, so some of one variant may well have been finished as, and included in, the number of aircraft of another.

Forget the M series as it was an upgrading of the surviving airframes to IAR 81C standard in 1944.

 

All told, not many, but still a great and fun aircraft for us to have.

 

Cheers.

Wiki got a bunch of things wrong.

 

No aircraft left the factory as IAR-81A, or IAR-81B.

There were orders placed for those, they were suposed to be dive bombers, the A armed with 4x7.92mm+2×13.2mm, and the B was suposed to have mg-ff 20mm cannons instead of the 13.2mm brownings. However, Germany cleared the Stuka for export to Romania, so the planes were finished as IAR-80B and IAR-80 C fighters, without bomb diving equipment.

 

 

When it comes to numbers, 415 IAR-80/81 were delivered.

 

Over 100 early iar 80s were upgraded to IAR-80M and this were different from the 81c. They had no dive brakes, no central bomb swing, no automatic dive recovery system, and a different wing, with shorter wingspan. Only the guns were identical with the 81c dive bomber. So, yeah it was pretty relevant version.

Obviously, in game it can be made from 81c, and when you don't take bombs, the game can select the 80m specs.

While the iar81c was delivered as dive bomber, the vast majority of them were used as fighter/ fighter bomber and had the central bomb swing removed at the unit.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Jaws2002

[Missionbug]

That is one lovely model of the IAR 80, certainly needs adding to this game for sure, maybe Jason should give the author a job in his team he could also make a Hurricane to go with

it as a collector set.

 

Still surprises me that a aircraft that was involved in the conflict from the start is not yet in the game and other far less deserving types are, hopefully the omission will be addressed soon.

 

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

[Finkeren]

Wiki got a bunch of things wrong.

 

No aircraft left the factory as IAR-81A, or IAR-81B.

There were orders placed for those, they were suposed to be dive bombers, the A armed with 4x7.92mm+2×13.2mm, and the B was suposed to have mg-ff 20mm cannons instead of the 13.2mm brownings. However, Germany cleared the Stuka for export to Romania, so the planes were finished as IAR-80B and IAR-80 C fighters, without bomb diving equipment.

 

 

When it comes to numbers, 415 IAR-80/81 were delivered.

 

Over 100 early iar 80s were upgraded to IAR-80M and this were different from the 81c. They had no dive brakes, no central bomb swing, no automatic dive recovery system, and a different wing, with shorter wingspan. Only the guns were identical with the 81c dive bomber. So, yeah it was pretty relevant version.

Obviously, in game it can be made from 81c, and when you don't take bombs, the game can select the 80m specs.

While the iar81c was delivered as dive bomber, the vast majority of them were used as fighter/ fighter bomber and had the central bomb swing removed at the unit.

So what you're saying is, that the 80M/81C will be the most logical way of modelling it and then have it available from BoS onwards?

[Jaws2002]

This plane sounds interesting, how's the timeline of the different variants? More or less to get which one would be in the different battles.

 

Here's the production timeline based on serial numbers. The page i posted above will show what version each serial number is.

 

 screenshot software

 

 

However, just because the planes were available, it doesn't mean they were immediately engaged in combat. 

Edited January 27, 2017 by Jaws2002

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

 

Here's the production timeline based on serial numbers. The page i posted above will show what version each serial number is.

However, just because the planes were available, it doesn't mean they were immediately engaged in combat. 

 

So roughly put for BoM we could have the 4x/6x rifle mg, for BoS the 4x rifle mg + 2xheavy mg and for BoK the cannon version?

[Jaws2002]

So what you're saying is, that the 80M/81C will be the most logical way of modelling it and then have it available from BoS onwards?

 

 

 Nope. It depends what campaign they want to do. At the start of the hostilities, on the eastern front, the Romanians had IAR-80 and 80A. So for a Odessa campaign, this plus the first IAR-81, are more appropriate. By the time they got to Oddessa, this planes are all armed with six 7.92mm brownings. 

   At Stalingrad they sent IAR80B and IAR81. So still no cannons armed IAR were involved in that battle. Cannon armed IAR's went in action in mid 43. While they were not sent to Kuban, cannon armed  IARs were engaged in Convoy protection in the Black Sea and saw quite a bit of action, against torpedo bombers starting in summer 1943. Of course, they were involved in combat against USAF during Tidal Wave. 

So, depends what they want to model, if they want to model it. But looking at other planes in the game, that got all the arming options from the start, regardless if was ever used in the area, or even ever used in combat......

Edited January 27, 2017 by Jaws2002

[Jaws2002]

So roughly put for BoM we could have the 4x/6x rifle mg, for BoS the 4x rifle mg + 2xheavy mg and for BoK the cannon version?

 

That's about right as timeline goes, but there were no IARs involved in the Moscow, or Kuban campaingn, but were available and engaged in other sectors. 

Edited January 27, 2017 by Jaws2002

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Meh, if its another machine premium like (190, P-40, Mc. 202 or whatever) than it doesnt have to be exactly related to specific campaign. Just if timeframe matches it will be fine. Considering BoK I think IAR 81c is totally fine. 

[NachtJaeger110]

I never noticed the IAR had no tailwheel until now

[Jaws2002]

I never noticed the IAR had no tailwheel until now

 

 

Yep. Lazy [Edited].

 

Actually, while cool, the IAR-80/81 are a sad example of a country that neglected it's military, until it was too late, and even then, made the monumental mistake of hoping for help from outside. 

  Most IAR-80's and 81s had abut the same engine and engine power, and They were never really serious about changing/ improving the engine. They will complain that Germans didn't want to give them DB-605, or BMW-801 engines to put in their IAR fighters, but hey never bothered doing something about it themselves. The IAR-80A involved in Odessa campaign in mod 1941 had same engine power with the last IAR-81C that left the production line in mid 1944. 

   You'll hear excuses that the engine reached it's maximum potential and they couldn't get nothing else out of it, but I'd call that one bullshit. They never even tried higher octane gas, they never tried cooling agents, like the water methanol injection, or changing alloys to allow the engine to run higher temperature. Nothing. They tried a jumo engine taken off a He111, then a DB-601 off an E3 and one DB-605 they got as spare from Germany for their G4-G6.

 

   It's no different today. They cut up all the local produced ground attack IAR-93s, they abandoned the IAR-95 project after they had access with everything from the West. They buried all their aircraft industry. 

 They have like twenty Mig-21s and just got six, third hand F-16s with ten missiles and that's what they call an airforce.

 

Pathetic as always.  I grew up there, but this is the truth.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Bearcat

[Falco_Peregrinus]

Well, as long as it is a new "exotic" addition to the game, I would buy it an istant.
I would definitely buy the IAR, as it will give something completely new to the game (not just another Yak or 109 version for instance).

 

And it's defintely a looker!

 

[Jaws2002]

I think we can forget the IAR 81C too, they arrived when the IAR 80/81 were all send in defense of Romania  after the end of battle of Stalingrad in mid-january 43. Romanian fighters in East front after spring 43 are only Bf 109G

The only fights against soviets aircrafts for IAR81C were between the 20 and 25 August 1944.

 

I can be wrong, to be confirmed.

 

I apologize for my bad english.

 

 

Your english is good enough. Mine sucks too. Thanks God for Google auto correct. 

 

 

   Starting in Summer 1943, IAR-80C equipped squadrons were active in Black Sea convoy protection, and were engaged against Russian torpedo bombers.

 

 

 

The following list of the successes of the 49th Fighter Squadron of the 4th Fighter Group, which had been detached to Yevpatoria under German command, was compiled from the book 

Vanatorul IAR-80 by Dan Antoniu and George Cicos and form the Luftwaffe kill list of Tony Wood (see http://tonywood.cjb.net). I also used the book Marina Romana in al doilea razboi moindial by Nicolae Koslinski and Raymond Stanescu for a view of the Romanian Royal Navy. 

 

7 July 1943 

The convoy made up of the cargo-ships Ardeal and Varna and escorted by NMS Marasesti, NMS Marasti, NMS Stihi, NMS Dumitrescu and an R-boot. Two other R-boots and 6 MFPs later joined the convoy. During the night it was attacked by a submarine (Sc-201), which NMS Marasesti manage to damage severely. In the morning, at about 0600 hours, the convoy was attacked by four DB-3Fs. NMS Marasesti opened fire and shot down one of them. The sailors claimed that they saw the fighters shoot down two Soviet aircraft. 

 

Here is what the two fighter pilots claimed: 

Adj. av. Mihai Mihordea 1xBristol* at 0650 hours 

Adj. av. Vasile Burcu 1xBristol at 0653 hours 

Adj. av. Mihai Mihordea 1xBristol at 0656 hours 

 

* The Romanian fighter pilots used to wrongly identify the DB-3F with the Bristol Beaufort. 

 

1 August 1943 

The convoy made up of the cargo-ships PLM 16, Prodromos, Kassa and Serose and escorted by NMS Marasti, NMS Murgescu, NMS Ghiculescu, NMS Dumitrescu and 2 R-boots was attacked at 0937 hours in the vicinity of Yevpatoria by two Soviet torpedo-bombers, coming from the south. The fire from the NMS Marasti and NMS Murgescu (probably the Romanian ship with the most aircraft shot-down) made them launch from far away (some 3,000m) and the torpedoes missed the destroyer. The airplanes machine-gunned the Xanten submarine-hunter, which had some casualties on board. Two IAR-80Cs of the 49th Squadron attacked the DB-3Fs and severely damaged them. The pilots did not see them crash, but they disappeared from German radar and the sailors claimed that the aircraft were shot down, so they were later confirmed. 

 

Lt. av. Gheorghe Butnaru 1xBristol flying the IAR-80C no. 271 

Serg. TR. av. Radu Costache 1xBristol flying the IAR-80C no. 241 

 

6 September 1943 

The convoy made up of the cargo-ships Burgas and KT 25 and escorted by NMS Regina Maria, NMS Regele Ferdinand, NMS Ghiculescu and 3 R-boots was attacked near Sevastopol by five Soviet bombers at 1220 hours and at 1251 by another four. The fighters intervened and claimed two kills, of which one was confirmed. 

 

Adj. av. Stefan Dumitrescu 1xBoston III* flying the IAR-80C no. 271 

Serg. TR. av. Radu Costache 1xBoston III probable flying the IAR-80C no. 274 

 

* Probably also DB-3Fs 

 

27 December 1943 

Adj. av. Mircea Mazilu 1xBoston III at 0730 hours 

 

30 January 1944 

Adj. av. Mircea Simion 1xBoston III 3.5 km NE Yevpatoria at 1510 hours 

 

3 February 1944 

Lt. av. Gheorghe Butnaru 1xBoston III N of Ak. Mafelka 

I have also found a mention of a German tug convoy being attacked near Odessa on 5 February and four Soviet aircraft being lost. Maybe this claim is actually for 5 February. 

 

16 March 1943 

Adj. av. Mihai Mihordea 1xBoston III at 1105 hours 

Adj. av. Mihai Mihordea 1xBoston III at 1108 hours 

Adj. av. Eugen Toflan 1xIl–2 at 1112 hours 

The Luftwaffe record shows these kills on 19 March. It seems there was no convoy on 16 March, but there was one to Sevastopol on 19-21 March.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Jaws2002

[Notclear]

I had wrong when I said the IAR 81C have fought against VVS just in end of August 1944, I found this (even if that stay a too late period for us):

 

"On 28 May, the 2nd Fighter Group received the order to move with all the squadrons on the Gheraesti airfield and join the 1st Air Corps which was engaged in the battle with the VVS on the front in Moldavia.

 

The first missions were flown on 30 May, when the group made 44 sorties, mostly bomber escorts. Eight IAR-81Cs from the 67th Fighter Squadron engaged a dogfight with about 20 P-39s. One IAR-81 was lost, without achieving any victories. The next day there were another 36 sorties and a dogfight between 8 IAR-81Cs and 15 Soviet P-39s. One plane was lost and another damaged, without achieving any victories over the VVS aircraft. This demonstrated again that the IAR-81 was obsolete and that there was a need for better aircraft. While escorting some Ju-88A4s from the 5th Bomber Group, the pilots from the 2nd Fighter Group even had problems with keeping up with the bombers.

The first victory against the VVS came on 6 June 1944, when 4 IAR-81Cs that were protecting a Hs-129B2 formation engaged 2 P-39s. In the following dogfight, adj. av. Mihai Mihordea achieved his 12th victory.

 

The group was moved to the Tecuci airfield. Between 5 and 12 June 1944 it had flown 18 missions, totaling 113 sorties. After this period of intense combat came a pause in the operations, which lasted from 26 June to 3 July. After this came the usual bomber or HQ aircraft escort missions.

On 27 July, 16 IAR-81Cs flew to the Husi airfield from where they were supposed to escort Romanian Ju-87Ds from the 6th Dive Bomber Group. The German AA defense of the airfield opened fire on the Romanian formation and continued to fire even when they were landing. As a result, two IARs were damaged and lt. av. Mihail Bulat was wounded. The next day, the same thing. When the 14 IAR-81Cs arrived near the Chisinau airfield, where they had to meet the bombers they had to escort, the German AAA opened fire and another airplane was damaged.

Nevertheless, operations continued and they even managed to score some victories. On 10 August, adj. av. Vasile Stana claimed a P-39 and 18 August (the black day of ARR) slt. av. Franz Secicar shot down a DB-3.

 

On 20 August, the Red Army launched the "Jassy-Kishinev" (Iasi-Chisinau) offensive. All available forces were thrown against the Soviet attack, including the 2nd Fighter Group. On the first day they flew 36 sorties. They engaged in several dogfights with larger Soviet formations and lost 4 airplanes and another two were damaged. The Romanian pilots claimed three victories, of which two by adj. av. Gheorghe Bucur: 1 LaGG and 1 P-39 probable. The next day, however, brought two victories (La-7s) for one loss. On 22 August there were 9 missions and 52 sorties, mostly escorts for bombers, and lost 3 airplanes to AAA They also provided an escort for marshal Antonescu on his last visit on the front.

The events of 23 August caught the 2nd Fighter Group, under the command of cpt. av. Ioan Ignat, on the Matca airfield. They received the order to move al available aircraft to the Urleasca airfield, where the declaration of the armistice with the Allied powers found them. The group had 19 airplanes."

 

http://www.worldwar2.ro/arr/?article=440

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

Pathetic as always.  I grew up there, but this is the truth.

 

Well, I dont know all that much about Romania. Know a little about cooperation between Poland and Romania in interwar period. What I recall is that Romania was a very poor country with fairly primitive social structure and limited industry, thus having little resources to work with. And as much as engine might be an excuse it may also be true, some engines are just not worth to adjust and improve since costs would greatly exceed benefits. It took over a decade a country like Japan to shift from license dependent industry to fully independent designing, constructing and manufacturing industry. Italy required German assistance with inline engines as well, despite quite decent experience they had with their industry. Poland tried its luck for some time as well and it turned out that silly ideas (air cooled inline engine) were too much, then when it came to developing new fighter lack of resources and former experience affected the outcome. Would Romania be able to carry research and development on sufficient level to achieve any substantial increases ? I honestly doubt so. It was much better to stick to something like BMW 601, particularly as engine wasnt bigger but provided much greater power output. That could bring a second life. But as it turned out there were none available for anyone else than Luftwaffe. 

 

I love IAR for its root as it dates back to PZL-24. Really hope it can make it. 

[Jaws2002]

True on all counts, but there was also rampant corruption, with politicians favoring contracts that bribed them the best. They liked to buy a little bit from here, a little bit from there, instead of investing in the local industry. When the war broke out they had aircraft from France, England, Germany, Poland, Italy and of course Romania. 

  The aeronautical industry was not supported by a solid research institutes, to help with development of new technologies and when something didn't work quite right, like the oil leaks on the IAR-80 engine, they usually blamed the only guys who actually did something.

 

  There's a Romanian book dedicated to the corruption in the Romanian Aviation in the twenties and thirties. It's called " S-a furat aviatia" ( the airforce was stolen) 

http://www.emag.ro/s-a-furat-aviatia-valeriu-avram-hos978-973-0-10872-9/pd/EHKC60BBM/

 

The corruption was rampant.

 

 There may be other reasons, though. The Romanians weren't very enthusiastic about fighting Germany's war after the Germans gave Transilvania to Hungary.  You can actually see that after they got back the territory USSR took in 1940, the Romanian Airforce didn't get too involved in the fighting on the eastern front, until Stalingrad. 

[Jaws2002]

Romanian PZL P.24.

 

upload a gif

 

picture share

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Pff, I got something better  

Check this out !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Corruption is nothing unheard of and that various foreign companies lobbied for their products, hence why they were picked, is something I can understand. That must have been hell to service all those aircraft though. 

 

 

The aeronautical industry was not supported by a solid research institutes, to help with development of new technologies and when something didn't work quite right, like the oil leaks on the IAR-80 engine, they usually blamed the only guys who actually did something.

Well, no clue how this could be helped. But I see there also serious lack of scientific background. To have decent aeronautical industry you need to educate engineers in such specific area. How many universities were in Romania back then ? Was aviation creating any interest in society ? What was the state of civil aviation ? 

To be able to push things forward you need specific culture, sufficient numbers of educated and interested in improving engineers, common interest from both military and government in further development. And money. 

[Jaws2002]

Pff, I got something better

Check this out !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Corruption is nothing unheard of and that various foreign companies lobbied for their products, hence why they were picked, is something I can understand. That must have been hell to service all those aircraft though. 

 

Well, no clue how this could be helped. But I see there also serious lack of scientific background. To have decent aeronautical industry you need to educate engineers in such specific area. How many universities were in Romania back then ? Was aviation creating any interest in society ? What was the state of civil aviation ? 

To be able to push things forward you need specific culture, sufficient numbers of educated and interested in improving engineers, common interest from both military and government in further development. And money. 

  P.11 manual in Romanian. That's cool. 

 

 

   

The aeronautical industry was pretty busy at the time. there were three or four aircraft factories, and general aviation was very popular. It's still called the golden era in Romanian aviation. 

   The Russian example is a great one. They had the Tzagi institute of aeronautical research. They developed a lot of new technologies, that were later shared with all the design teams and the whole Russian aviation industry was able to take advantage of their research. 

    The Russians started with similar French engines, but got them upgraded and then built new ones based on the lessons learned. In the same time, Tzagi dramatically improved their aircraft aerodynamics and lowered their weight. Look at the Lagg3 for example. It started draggy, heavy and weak and by the time it got to LA7, gained very little weight, gained power, firepower and dramatically lower drag.  

Edited January 27, 2017 by Jaws2002