Surprised

[jokerBR]

Just got jumped by two DVIIs (*maybe F version) which were *way* faster than my Spad, on a dive, with full throttle applied, on Flugpark server. This is a novelty to me. Is this from the last patch?

Cheers.

[jollyjack]

I tested a few FC1 planes in a mission where the should cover-protect a Ju52, and these buggers were fastest.

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

How much speed did they have before you noticed them?

[No.23_Triggers]

Yep. Ain't like RoF - those Fs will get ya unless you clear out early enough! 

[Stab/JG1_Klaiber]

I have a track of it.  And a TacView.  Though they're a bit buggy due to distance.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/y9gxed9s8p8akf4/AAA0YPrK9VxOeopRvvf1yp2-a?dl=0

 

It was two JG1 pilots (Maus and Hotlead), one in a DVIIF, but the other in a Pfalz.

 

They had height and energy on you, and after the first salvo, you turned back in on them.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Stab/JG1_Klaiber

[jokerBR]

On the first pass I turned into one and then I tried to extend... as I kept observing, the DVII kept closing the gap, even diving at full power and with bombs onboard (more weight). Never happened before, I thought that on a dive the Spad was untouchable (RoF days). Not anymore. Good to know, will start to chase Spads when flying on DVIIs from now on.

8 hours ago, US63_SpadLivesMatter said:

How much speed did they have before you noticed them?

More or less same speed/co-alt, but they did by the book, I went to one and the other climbed a little, gaining energy (which I thought would be useless once I started to extend on a shallow dive, because I remember the engines blowing on RoF if trying to dive too fast). Still learning the ropes with fighters (usually I fly 2 seaters).

[JGr2/J5_Hotlead]

I remember dogfight testing SPAD vs D.VIIF in Rise of Flight back in 2014 with my friend LIBERATOR2 and in one of those fights, I got in the exact situation you did; I dove out n away from Lib’s D.VIIF from 1000 meters like you did and to my absolute horror, he simply charged right after me, caught up with me, and shot me down. Since I was on the deck, I had nothing to do but turn and fight...with predictable results. 
 

So yeah, from the moment we engaged you at 1k well into our territory, you were pretty much screwed. It didn’t help that we had some height on you from the start and that we had already been diving for a bit whereas you were fairly straight and level initially. Of course, as soon as you noticed us, you started a shallow dive, but at that point even I in my Pfalz D.IIIa was catching up to you. With you being on the deck, you unfortunately had no more cards to play and ended up getting shot down.
 

What could have saved you is if instead of diving further into our territory after attacking our Halberstadts, you would have extended towards the front and climbed. As things were, when our bombers got attacked, they tried to push you towards us, and it ended up working. 
 

IMHO, if the exact same thing had happened at, say, 2-3k high, you would have had enough altitude to make it out before our D.VIIF had to pull up for fear of losing his engine. I still would have advised diving towards no man’s land and home rather than deeper into our lines though.

 

Anyways, that’s my two cents. I just thought I’d post this before I left for work this morning to share my thought process and help you know how to hone your skills. When I first got into ROF in 2012, other pilots did the same for me, and it proved invaluable. Heck, other pilots still do that for me now! I still have a lot to learn myself. ? 
 

Honestly, for a guy who only flies two seaters usually, you did pretty well! Just polish off some of the rough spots and you will be knocking people out in no time! ? You certainly had our two seaters worried for a bit there. 
 

Hope to see you in the skies again sometime. Salute! ?

 

JG1_Hotlead

Edited June 23, 2020 by JG1_Hotlead_J10

[jokerBR]

Surething, Hotlead. 
The reason I extended into enemy territory was that I was planning to extend until reaching the barge way up to the river, drop my bombs there and then return (I was pretty confident that I would leave you behind enough for you to cease pursuit - how naive, lol). It was a situation almost identical to a (long ago) mission in RoF where I tried to fly Spads and had success doing this, but not this time. That time however I was a little bit higher when I started the "maneuver", which can explain why it worked then. Knowing better now, the best course would have been just to gain altitude while going away from you both, not trying to dash between you thinking I would be safe when diving. Or - at least - not pressing so much on the first attempt like I did. Never expected a Spad to be slower than a DVII on a dive.
Guess I have to fly fighters more often to reset my knowledge about what they can and cannot do, and forget about RoF.

In a 2 seater, everything that flies can catch you. Perhaps it's healthier to keep this in mind while flying fighters, no matter which. ?
Cheers and thanks.

Edited June 23, 2020 by jokerBR

[No.23_Starling]

All us Spaddicts have been relearning the plane. It’s not been made easy by the various updates which have changed the dynamics repeatedly. Your wings won’t stay on now pulling many Gs if you get so much as a tickle, plus control surfaces can lock after a single stray hit. Plus no parachute unlike the Germans.

 

If you see a Dvii above you then always assume it’s an F and turn around. Don’t even bother engaging and dive for your own lines. So long as you dive before they do and you’ve separation you should escape, but don’t depend on the dive like in RoF. The Spad is now really an ambush plane or team bird. The Camel is for everything else! If you do engage a DviiF always do it with altitude and aim for the pilot or engine. The wings are now made of adamantium so there’s no more wing snipes like in RoF, and she can pull gs when riddled so don’t expect them to come off following you in a dive. Shoot and dive away or risk an energy fight if you have the skill and the sky is clear.

 

Good luck

Edited June 23, 2020 by US93_Rummell

[76SQN-FatherTed]

7 hours ago, JG1_Hotlead_J10 said:

 

IMHO, if the exact same thing had happened at, say, 2-3k high, you would have had enough altitude to make it out before our D.VIIF had to pull up for fear of losing his engine. I still would have advised diving towards no man’s land and home rather than deeper into our lines though.

 

3K is pretty much "hard deck" for me in a Spad/SE if near/over the lines when I'm lone-wolfing - and has been since long before the recent, ahem,  "troublesome" patches.  As Hotlead says, at only 1K in enemy territory, against two opponents who had bounced you (and one in a D. VIIF), I don't think it's a surprising result.

[NO.20_Krispy_Duck]

The best thing you can do for yourself, in the SE5a or the Spad, up-front and before the fight starts, is limit yourself to one or two passes at the enemy, and engage only with an energy advantage. The Spad retains its energy OK, and the SE5a has been discussed elsewhere as having issues with RPM and energy bleeding.

 

There is some historical basis for this - we know that the tactics of pilots like Fonck were slash attacks making use of marksmanship. In test flying a captured Spad VII (often described as a handier plane than the XIII), the German test pilot remarked about how "the first attack" from the Spad could be quite dangerous - another indication that the French were using slash attacks that exploited the Spad's stability and the V-8 engine layout. Though we also know the Spad VII and SE5a could dogfight effectively as well. The XIII seems to have been less of a dogfighter and more of a true energy fighter. This still does not address the damage concerns to the Spad XIII in FC, but that sort of another subject.

 

And you want a headstart to dive away to friendly lines. The D.VIIs can keep up in the dive well enough to continue firing, at least for a short time. There is no "instant out" in FC. Try to single out enemy fighters and take an energy advantage into the fight. If the enemy starts drawing flak and is firing away but missing, all the better because this may draw a friendly plane to relieve you.

 

With all that being said, the regulars on this board already probably know all of this. The casual people and newbies who become frustrated don't always visit this forum, and sadly they sometimes just give up on the game after getting frustrated trying to dogfight in a Spad or SE5a. You've been here long enough that you probably know all of this, but maybe someone will find this new information.

Edited June 24, 2020 by Krispy_Duck

[jokerBR]

Yes, I know what you mean. I've been playing WWI since (NeoQB's) RoF, being one of the few that actually paid for the software on day one, before it went the "free to play" road. Yet, never really got into fighters (I reserve DCS for this, although it has been a year since I last played that title, i guess). On WWI I'm more of a "mud mover", preferring the challenge of a well executed bombing mission where you usually fly alone, without cover, needing to know exactly where you are at all times (not only what direction the enemy/friendly lines are) and plan/navigate in a way that will provide you to accomplish everything without being detected - sorta "sniper mode". 
Every now and then I play fighters (usually alone, which is wrong), but even then very sporadically, not enough to know each plane well. For instance, I don't really know all the pros/cons of every fighter, only the most prominent ones, like Camels are for dogfight, Spads are for bounce, and so on. As I said, my (wrong) assumption was based on previous experience in RoF, where I could easily escape on Spads.
I'm not really into Spads, in reality. I find bouncing attacks pretty boring, when it comes to fighting. The "one go, one shot" I leave for when I'm flying the bombers. On fighters, I like more the Camel/Dr1 way. The reason I went with it that day is because I had a few minutes to do a quick mission, and Spads were the fastest planes available.

Very good tips at this thread, though.

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

31 minutes ago, jokerBR said:

Yes, I know what you mean. I've been playing WWI since (NeoQB's) RoF, being one of the few that actually paid for the software on day one, before it went the "free to play" road. Yet, never really got into fighters (I reserve DCS for this, although it has been a year since I last played that title, i guess). On WWI I'm more of a "mud mover", preferring the challenge of a well executed bombing mission where you usually fly alone, without cover, needing to know exactly where you are at all times (not only what direction the enemy/friendly lines are) and plan/navigate in a way that will provide you to accomplish everything without being detected - sorta "sniper mode". 
Every now and then I play fighters (usually alone, which is wrong), but even then very sporadically, not enough to know each plane well. For instance, I don't really know all the pros/cons of every fighter, only the most prominent ones, like Camels are for dogfight, Spads are for bounce, and so on. As I said, my (wrong) assumption was based on previous experience in RoF, where I could easily escape on Spads.
I'm not really into Spads, in reality. I find bouncing attacks pretty boring, when it comes to fighting. The "one go, one shot" I leave for when I'm flying the bombers. On fighters, I like more the Camel/Dr1 way. The reason I went with it that day is because I had a few minutes to do a quick mission, and Spads were the fastest planes available.

Very good tips at this thread, though.

You know you don't have to bomb alone right? Don't know what side you fly regularly but if you fly on Thursday thing we do a lot of bombing, and could use more bombers to follow us and help against the evil side when they attack, Don't have to be on TS just follow us. We usually start at 4:30/5:00, And to tell you the truth I'm not crazy about the spad either, Rather stick to my killer machine, the killer bee with a nasty stinger, the BRISTOL.   

[jokerBR]

Thanks @NO.20_W_M_Thomson, it would be nice, of course.

My present time zone is GMT-3, so it may be doable (I see you're at GMT-7, so this translates around 8:30~9PM my local time). I don't fly every day, unfortunately, but I'll try to form up.

Cheers

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

3 hours ago, jokerBR said:

Thanks @NO.20_W_M_Thomson, it would be nice, of course.

My present time zone is GMT-3, so it may be doable (I see you're at GMT-7, so this translates around 8:30~9PM my local time). I don't fly every day, unfortunately, but I'll try to form up.

Cheers

That would be awesome if you get to fly with us, 4 or more Bristol's will do some damage and good protection for us all, Maybe after we bomb the crap out of everything we can climb and help the 93rd pursuit group get some kills for a change lol.

 

  We don't do a lot of serious flying every day, just the Thursday and Sunday things then just the beating each other up or ai's on our own servers. But that's about 9:00 our time. You'd be snoring your head off at that time. 

[Chill31]

I dove away from a D7 yesterday in my Se5...after dogfighting him for a moment. I usually extend After a high aspect pass where my opponent is in a climb. It is a great time to run away...the reverse...not so much