Is Flugpark Using Simplied Physics? Why It Matters!

[US103_Baer]

Let me state clearly here, no-one is suggesting server operators are deliberately creating unfair advantage. While we might differ in opinions on some map matters, FC is a niche within a niche and we're all grateful for the hard work and resources committed to maintain a dedicated server. There is likely a simple explanation.

 

However, something has felt 'off' on Flugpark for a little while, and last Thursday a couple of experienced pilots started noticing too. Time to run some 3rd PG tests (see video below).

 

Short answer, Flugpark is likely running with 'Simplified Physics ON'.

I believe this was designed to allow mouse users to fly on the same server as joystick users. Here's a quote from the Devs about it...

"The answer to this dilemma is a special 'advanced helper' that receives 'I want to do this but I don't know how to' commands from a player and translates them to real plane controls input, not touching physics level at all. This comes with a price however, as everything in life - the helper chooses optimal 'right' trajectories, which simultaneously prevents a player from critical errors and limits the extreme maneuvers the plane can perform like Barrel roll, Snap roll, Hummerhead, Sideslip and others. This enables players who use a mouse and players who use a joystick to fly together and don't have a clear advantage caused by their control device. Winning a fight requires tactical positioning and understanding the composition of air fight, what, we feel, is the goal in this situation."

 

"Limits extreme maneuvers like rolls.." Not really suitable for an expert server I'd suggest.

 

If that was the end of it though it wouldn't be so bad, however it clearly limits some planes more than others, and that is more than just bad. 

 

On top of the ongoing DM debacle it really is just what we needed

 

 

Edited June 22, 2020 by US103_Baer

[emely]

Hell shit! :-(((

[=IRFC=Gecko]

 

Yeah I was just imagining things.

 

Along with the totally invisible dogfight my flying partner was engaged in while I sat back and watched his tracers shooting at ghosts I couldn't see until after they had engaged me. Then I was back seat in his BrisFit that was fighting against some Dr.1s' while having no struts or rigging at all on the right wing and only the inboard pair of struts on the left with no rigging but magically my Camel can fall apart with 0.7 damage. 

 

Regards Shot

[J5_Adam]

4 hours ago, US103_Baer said:

Let me state clearly here, no-one is suggesting server operators are deliberately creating unfair advantage. While we might differ in opinions on some map matters, FC is a niche within a niche and we're all grateful for the hard work and resources committed to maintain a dedicated server. There is likely a simple explanation.

 

However, something has felt 'off' on Flugpark for a little while, and last Thursday another experienced pilot started noticing too. Time to run some tests (see video below).

 

Short answer, Flugpark is likely running with 'Simplified Physics ON'.

I believe this was designed to allow mouse users to fly on the same server as joystick users. Here's a quote from the Devs about it...

"The answer to this dilemma is a special 'advanced helper' that receives 'I want to do this but I don't know how to' commands from a player and translates them to real plane controls input, not touching physics level at all. This comes with a price however, as everything in life - the helper chooses optimal 'right' trajectories, which simultaneously prevents a player from critical errors and limits the extreme maneuvers the plane can perform like Barrel roll, Snap roll, Hummerhead, Sideslip and others. This enables players who use a mouse and players who use a joystick to fly together and don't have a clear advantage caused by their control device. Winning a fight requires tactical positioning and understanding the composition of air fight, what, we feel, is the goal in this situation."

 

"Limits extreme maneuvers like rolls.." Not really suitable for an expert server I'd suggest.

 

If that was the end of it though it wouldn't be so bad, however it clearly limits some planes more than others, and that is more than just bad. 

 

On top of the ongoing DM debacle it really is just what we needed

 

 

 

 

Sent a message to Greentails on Discord. If it is turned on it most likely by accident and went unnoticed until now. 

Edited June 22, 2020 by J5_Adam

[1PL-Sahaj-1Esk]

interesting ... I cannot open the video for the moment

[US103_Baer]

2 hours ago, J5_Adam said:

 

 

Sent a message to Greentails on Discord. If it is turned on it most likely by accident and went unnoticed until now. 

 

Thanks. Yeah, not the sort of thing you'd look for, can imagine it being missed easily

It might be helpful if we can get a confirmation once turned off.

[Garven]

Did notice having a hard time in the one fight flying in the camel, figured it was my lack of time in the plane.  Se5a felt normal.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Danneskjold

[US103_Baer]

1 hour ago, 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk said:

interesting ... I cannot open the video for the moment

 

Odd. Will it run on YouTube site?

Anyone else unable to play it?

[J2_Bidu]

Actually I felt my DR1 acting a bit weird in one extreme maneuver I do for fun, but since the DR1 is weird most of the time, I thought it was due to height and gave it no more thought.

 

A similar thing in a D7F but that was some dsys ago. For how long do you think this has been happening?

Edited June 22, 2020 by J2_Bidu

[US103_Baer]

Hey @J2_Bidu 

Not sure how long, but about a month ago I recall having a session that felt 'syrupy'. Have noticed it a few times since, but put it down to my ping.

D7 seems to be among the least affected in our tests, but we haven't done all the planes yet.

[emely]

Maybe it came unnoticed, along with the update of the game?  Interestingly, the guys who keep the server will say about this situation.

[1PL-Sahaj-1Esk]

4 hours ago, US103_Baer said:

 

Odd. Will it run on YouTube site?

Anyone else unable to play it?

 

Now, it works. So, well the evidence is clear, thank you for sharing BAER - important find!

 

May I ask the server operators since when SIMPLIFIED PHYSICS is turned on, on Flug Park?

 

 

Edited June 22, 2020 by 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk

[JGr2/J5_Baeumer]

I can look into it later today and relay findings.

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

Settings might have been borked following one of the recent updates. That probably explains why I got killed yesterday.

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

12 hours ago, Groggy-Gecko said:

magically my Camel can fall apart with 0.7 damage. 

Don't think that's caused by the simplified physics. That's just piss poor damage modeling, Now having simplified physics turn off may make it worse, You'll pull more G's with it off, At least I think that's what will happen. I personally think the hit boxes are to big but I haven't seen seen them to clarify. Don't think we can, can we?   

[emely]

I do not see any answers to the question - what rules apply to Flugpark.  Today, none of my comrades wanted to take part in flights on this server.  I also do not want to play arcade games for preschool children.  If such conditions are permanent there, and these rules will apply to FiF, then Adler Legion will be disbanded and we will simply stop playing this game forever.

Edited June 22, 2020 by emely

[J2_Bidu]

38 minutes ago, emely said:

I do not see any answers to the question - what rules apply to Flugark.  Today, none of my comrades wanted to take part in flights on this server.  I also do not want to play arcade games for preschool children.  If such conditions are permanent there, and these rules will apply to FiF, then Adler Legion will be disbanded and we will simply stop playing this game forever.

 

It's probably a glitch in server configuration, who would opt for that?

 

6 hours ago, J5_Baeumer said:

I can look into it later today and relay findings.

 

Yeap, DR1 behavior is consistent with simplified physics.

Edited June 22, 2020 by J2_Bidu

[emely]

1 hour ago, J2_Bidu said:

 

It's probably a glitch in server configuration, who would opt for that?

I have long ceased to believe in words.  For too long, there is no answer to this important question.

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

1 hour ago, emely said:

I do not see any answers to the question - what rules apply to Flugpark.  Today, none of my comrades wanted to take part in flights on this server.  I also do not want to play arcade games for preschool children.  If such conditions are permanent there, and these rules will apply to FiF, then Adler Legion will be disbanded and we will simply stop playing this game forever.

Emely I get your frustrations, Allied planes have been given a rough deal but I don't think J5 would give us simplified physics on purpose. I bet it hurts some of the central planes as well like the alb. 

[emely]

I don’t think the J5 is to blame for anything.  However, the rules of the game must be known BEFORE it starts.  I am ready to play even Russian roulette, but I must know the rules!

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

2 hours ago, NO.20_W_M_Thomson said:

Emely I get your frustrations, Allied planes have been given a rough deal but I don't think J5 would give us simplified physics on purpose. I bet it hurts some of the central planes as well like the alb. 

 

Nothing can save the Alb I'm afraid.

Edited June 23, 2020 by J5_Klugermann

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

35 minutes ago, J5_Klugermann said:

 

Nothing can save the Alb i'm afraid.

Little love from the developers could help maybe, Same with the SE5, Little love for that little guy too please. But the Bristol, oh god that's a mess, Way too slow and falls apart just looking at it. That needs the most love. So please developers, give a Bristol pilot down on his luck something to love again.

[JGr2/J5_Baeumer]

Yes, it appears there was a mixup in settings as we worked to create a second practice server over the last month or so. 

 

As of this posting, the Flugpark does not have simplified settings enabled.  The icons on Flugpark 2 practice server does have simplified physics on, in case pilots are wondering what the impact of simplified settings has.  I wonder whether there will be more or less complaints about wingshedding etc. moving forward? 

 

Sorry for any stress this caused anyone.  Thanks to Baer et.al for bringing this to our attention.

Edited June 23, 2020 by J5_Baeumer

[J2_Bidu]

5 hours ago, J5_Baeumer said:

Sorry for any stress this caused anyone.  Thanks to Baer et.al for bringing this to our attention.

 

I want my money back.

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

11 hours ago, J5_Baeumer said:

Yes, it appears there was a mixup in settings as we worked to create a second practice server over the last month or so. 

 

As of this posting, the Flugpark does not have simplified settings enabled.  The icons on Flugpark 2 practice server does have simplified physics on, in case pilots are wondering what the impact of simplified settings has.  I wonder whether there will be more or less complaints about wingshedding etc. moving forward? 

 

Sorry for any stress this caused anyone.  Thanks to Baer et.al for bringing this to our attention.

 

Does this mean you will busted to Feldwebel ???

[1PL-Sahaj-1Esk]

Thanks for clarifying Bäumer!