Reshaders

[von_Tom]

33 minutes ago, H_Stiglitz said:

Reshade or not, if you do not see a guy 2km from you heading straight for you, you‘re sleeping or blind.

 

 

I'm not so sure.  Most of the time I am quartering the sky looking for contacts and it can still be very easy not to see someone before they get in firing range.  After all, many pilots lost their lives to enemies that they never saw.

 

Having a black blob or black aircraft on my screen instead of a small camouflaged fighter would make a huge difference.

 

von Tom

 

 

[Beazil]

2 hours ago, mincer said:

I think you miss my point. I am not asking advice on "becoming a better pilot". I am talking about having a more or less even playing field for everyone. From my point of view,  given how much impact visibility has in this game, enabling injectors massively defeats this goal. That is all from me.

You are becoming a better pilot every time you lift.  An even playing field is available for everyone.  If you want mods on servers you can use them.  If you don't want to (for whatever reason) you don't have to.  I have no mods on, so I can log into any server I like without too much thought.  I don't spend my time worried about whether or not the other player is using a mod.  And mincer don't think you are being picked on.  You are not.  You don't have to feel like you have to defend yourself.  You are not being attacked on your point of view, just challenged.  I'm pointing out that you don't control other players any more than I do; so why pour effort into trying to convince others ( no control) vs adapting your behaviour (something you have complete control over).  It doesn't always mean sour grapes to exercise your choices any more than acceptance of mod use means endorsement of "cheating'.  Salute man. 

[Giovanni_Giorgio]

In the meanwhile, due to the jetlag I missed that the Finnish server disabled injectors. 
 

Most people are not blind and have common sense.

[Beazil]

37 minutes ago, mincer said:

In the meanwhile, due to the jetlag I missed that the Finnish server disabled injectors. 
 

Most people are not blind and have common sense.

And as was stated in the thread you linked, nonone has been caught cheating.  Common sense indeed.

[ITAF_Gerry_Lil_Rocket]

hi

foreword...my "not so brilliant" results in dogfighting skill are doubtless a consequence of several factors (spotting,strategy and airmanship just to say some..) depending all on me.

That said I think that reshade is definitely a cheat. Yes some player could use it just to enhance their in game graphic performance but this limited and responsible use of reshade it's all on their shoulder and, outside on their pc, no one can verify this. If I mind about some shaders like comic and cartoon you can just agree with me.

at this point I think that the right choice will be ban reshade from every mp server. but for the playability  of the game (and the future of the game too, especially in mp) a less realistic but increased spotting capability could be a desirable choice of devs. All depends on what we consider the most desirable objective for the game and for us as players. To me engage tactitcs (like a chess game more or less) airmanship and gunnery could be most interesting aspects so better spotting possibility without the need of graphic injectors/cheat coul be the right choice to increase playability. Just my opinion

good flights

P.S.: by the way in another thread someone asked to real life pilots about the realism of spotting aircraft in Il-2. To me, working as helo pilot in real life, spotting in Il-2 is very realistic....some time with indications from air traffic controllers about heading, altitude, type of aircraft and often even with a Tcas indication on screen it's very difficult spot aircraft and which aircraft is. Maybe this is the reason why Adolf Galland made an out of aircraft configuration installation of a rifle shooting scope in the front cockpit glass of his ME  Bf 109E-4/N.

Edited June 25, 2020 by ITAF_Gerry_Lil_Rocket

[Giovanni_Giorgio]

12 hours ago, JG51_Beazil said:

And as was stated in the thread you linked, nonone has been caught cheating.  Common sense indeed.

So sad they did not "change their mindset" to "become better pilots" 

[Beazil]

2 hours ago, mincer said:

So sad they did not "change their mindset" to "become better pilots" 

I think you are missing the point.  Laugh it up.  When you are done recovering from your hilarious joke let us know how railing against others and contemptuous self serving statements are working for you.  Cheers.

[BlackBadger]

Hey so here's a crucial piece of information.

 

Reshade by itself doesn't help you to achieve ungodly spotting as shown in the video at the very top. It's a shader called "cartoon" that does that. Obviously it gives and unfair advantage and banning it as a server side setting is ok from my perspective as there's no way currently for reshade or Il-2 devs to control which shaders are used or not.

 

However! there might be a solution to this. As there's still no word on when the visibility/spotting system will be reworked  we should allow some sort of augmentation/shaders. We have to use some variant of this not only to allow us to enhance the look of the game,  but also to help people that are colour-blind or have various others eye deficiencies.  At the very least things like exposure, highlights, blacks, clarity, sharpening and colour/vibrancy should be available to change.

 

One such possible solution is to allow us to use Nvidia Freestyle.

 

https://www.geforce.com/en_GB/gfecnt/whats-new/articles/nvidia-freestyle-ansel-enhancements-geforce-experience-article

 

Freestyle comes with a basic set of filters and my understanding is that existing competitive games only enable basic filters and do not allow import of any exotic ones. Of course for this to happen in an official manner the game would have to be added to GeForce experience.

 

This leaves us with AMD, to which my understanding is those users can already alter the look of the game via AMD Adrenaline..?

 

 

 

 

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

@hnbdgrAMD has no image altering filters available. Using 5700XT now. Regarding reShade and other injectors. Maybe devs of games should provide more room for adjusting image quality, colors etc. rather than force feed presets or almost no adjustment at all..would render those injectors useless. As long as any 3rd party program can be tweaked to give an advantage it will be done to hell and back.

Edited July 7, 2020 by LLv34_Flanker

[ITAF_Gerry_Lil_Rocket]

I think that in the end we are all turning around the point .....in MP we have to start with same conditions, no advantages for anyone. This is imho the way to develop the community right with the max fun possible. Obviously no one can intervene on anyone hardware ( like monitors/ graphic adapters/trackir/vr and so on.....that likely affects the most some crucial aspects of playing like spotting and SA) but basicly we would have to play with the best strategy, airmanship, gunnery, coordination etc. to perform a successful mission/dogfight. If you play i.e. on Berloga server which is one of them that still allows Reshade, when you spawn in immediately you can see where are the aircrafts and i.e that probably  the higher are German and the lower are Russians....you can proceed higher and when identified the enemy think which strategy could be the most effective and start the attack. This is an undoubted and unfair advantage....the fact that after such planning and thinking I succeed in downing the ennemy aircraft it's a whole other story??

[BlackBadger]

On 7/7/2020 at 3:43 PM, LLv34_Flanker said:

S!

 

@hnbdgrAMD has no image altering filters available. Using 5700XT now. Regarding reShade and other injectors. Maybe devs of games should provide more room for adjusting image quality, colors etc. rather than force feed presets or almost no adjustment at all..would render those injectors useless. As long as any 3rd party program can be tweaked to give an advantage it will be done to hell and back.

 

Hi Flanker! That could be one way of going about it. If done carefully and providing shaders/tweaks that are useful would perhaps be an ok stop-gap solution. The endgoal for the devs should be to normalize and improve spotting. I still think that if you can see tracers at 6km, there's no reason you shouldn't see aircraft that far either.

 

On 7/8/2020 at 10:12 AM, ITAF_Gerry_Lil_Rocket said:

I think that in the end we are all turning around the point .....in MP we have to start with same conditions, no advantages for anyone. This is imho the way to develop the community right with the max fun possible. Obviously no one can intervene on anyone hardware ( like monitors/ graphic adapters/trackir/vr and so on.....that likely affects the most some crucial aspects of playing like spotting and SA) but basicly we would have to play with the best strategy, airmanship, gunnery, coordination etc. to perform a successful mission/dogfight. If you play i.e. on Berloga server which is one of them that still allows Reshade, when you spawn in immediately you can see where are the aircrafts and i.e that probably  the higher are German and the lower are Russians....you can proceed higher and when identified the enemy think which strategy could be the most effective and start the attack. This is an undoubted and unfair advantage....the fact that after such planning and thinking I succeed in downing the ennemy aircraft it's a whole other story??

 

Sure we all want the same starting position with no unfair advantage. But with spotting being the way it is at the moment there's not much fun in searching for enemy a/c. The spotting bubble is too small and unpredictable from angles and against different backgrounds. Most people use reshade etc. simply to make it less of a chore, as that's what it is. And if you have a game mechanic that players feel is a chore and unpredictable it will turn many away. If this game improved spotting I bet you'd see many more people returning to multiplayer.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

8 hours ago, hnbdgr said:

I still think that if you can see tracers at 6km, there's no reason you shouldn't see aircraft that far either.

Well one such reason would be that tracers emit light. We can see stars that are a gazillion km away. For "dark" objects the maths are completely different though - earlier in this thread I calculated the max distance at which the human eye can see a He-111 is around 15km, so 6km doesn't seem unreasonably far off for a fighter. And in-game, I've spotted fighters at far longer distances (a flight of bf-109s at ~10km just now).

 

8 hours ago, hnbdgr said:

The spotting bubble is too small and unpredictable from angles and against different backgrounds.

As it should be. All those things matter a lot in real-life. The more I read about it, the less I'm convinced that spotting and identification in IL2 is actually harder than in real-life.

[ITAF_Gerry_Lil_Rocket]

On 7/10/2020 at 9:11 AM, hnbdgr said:

 

Hi Flanker! That could be one way of going about it. If done carefully and providing shaders/tweaks that are useful would perhaps be an ok stop-gap solution. The endgoal for the devs should be to normalize and improve spotting. I still think that if you can see tracers at 6km, there's no reason you shouldn't see aircraft that far either.

 

 

Sure we all want the same starting position with no unfair advantage. But with spotting being the way it is at the moment there's not much fun in searching for enemy a/c. The spotting bubble is too small and unpredictable from angles and against different backgrounds. Most people use reshade etc. simply to make it less of a chore, as that's what it is. And if you have a game mechanic that players feel is a chore and unpredictable it will turn many away. If this game improved spotting I bet you'd see many more people returning to multiplayer.

I agree with you....but i've read a post from Jason where he explained the difficulties in setting ingame spotting characteristics to match anyone taste....and that's absolutely true! but under realism perspective the game as it is now it's absolutely realistic....all of us have read dogfighting stories from wwii fighter pilots (the enemy you didn't see is the enemy that will shoot you down..) and, to be precise, pilots during wwii were from 18 years old  up to 26/28 mainly to have better spotting capability (Greg Pappy Boyngton 26 yo was nicknamed Grumpy from his fellows pilots of Marines 214 VFN Black Sheeps ?).imho the question at this point is how many players could like a little bit less realism and a little bit increased spotting capability. I'm among the latter .

[BlackBadger]

On 7/10/2020 at 5:25 PM, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Well one such reason would be that tracers emit light. We can see stars that are a gazillion km away. For "dark" objects the maths are completely different though - earlier in this thread I calculated the max distance at which the human eye can see a He-111 is around 15km, so 6km doesn't seem unreasonably far off for a fighter. And in-game, I've spotted fighters at far longer distances (a flight of bf-109s at ~10km just now).

 

As it should be. All those things matter a lot in real-life. The more I read about it, the less I'm convinced that spotting and identification in IL2 is actually harder than in real-life.

 

I'm curious as to why in your calculation you picked 4m when you could have picked the length or width of the he-111? 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_eye

 

in the article they refer to a resolution of 0.3m @ 1km.

 

Under ideal conditions a fighter with a length of 8m ought to be visible more or less at 26km.  Now i will stress that is ideal conditions.

 

On 7/11/2020 at 4:16 PM, ITAF_Gerry_Lil_Rocket said:

I agree with you....but i've read a post from Jason where he explained the difficulties in setting ingame spotting characteristics to match anyone taste....and that's absolutely true! but under realism perspective the game as it is now it's absolutely realistic....all of us have read dogfighting stories from wwii fighter pilots (the enemy you didn't see is the enemy that will shoot you down..) and, to be precise, pilots during wwii were from 18 years old  up to 26/28 mainly to have better spotting capability (Greg Pappy Boyngton 26 yo was nicknamed Grumpy from his fellows pilots of Marines 214 VFN Black Sheeps ?).imho the question at this point is how many players could like a little bit less realism and a little bit increased spotting capability. I'm among the latter .

 

Exactly. is it possible to please everyone? no of course not. But undoubtedly you'd see more people online if the current system is improved. And to be clear I'm mainly talking about short distance spotting - 2-3 km behind you or below you that's currently the most frustrating part.  I don't need to see 15 km ahead. 6~9km depending on atmospheric conditions is fine.

 

Regarding getting bounced etc. In the old Il-2 cliffs of dover that I used to fly a lot, spotting was still difficult and challenging and you'd get bounced a lot but it was never nearly this frustrating. (that is around 2014 or so when they fixed whatever bug there was with it. )

 

Look guys, at the end of the day this is a very similar thing as with the original time compression limit and bouncy planes fm and other stuff. People picked up on it as they recognized it as a problem that's in the way of this game reaching its full potential. You then had lots of people come out in defence of it - cooking up all sorts of rationalizations in why that's actually better. In case of the fm - why the fm is actually really supposed to be this way.... ?‍♂️ Then once it got fixed, those people stopped mentioning it as they recognised the improved fm was indeed improved.

 

Some issues seem to follow this same pattern. I hope it will get fixed one day soon and when it happens this game only stands to gain from it. Right now I'll fly for a while every now and then and eventually shelve it for a few weeks at a time as I can't be bothered massively straining my eyes for an hour peeping for specks of dust. It should not be that hard/unrewarding.

I also frequently play Quick Battles against AI and find that i have to turn the icons on 2-3x during a fight as I lost sight of them even though all 4 enemy a/c are right there 2km behind me.

 

Until the spotting mechanic reaches a level that the majority of the community finds acceptable for use, these threads won't go away. Anyway that's the last out of me on this, I hope I didn't offend anyone - it's just frustration speaking.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

On 7/14/2020 at 6:59 PM, hnbdgr said:

I'm curious as to why in your calculation you picked 4m when you could have picked the length or width of the he-111? 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_eye

 

in the article they refer to a resolution of 0.3m @ 1km.

 

Under ideal conditions a fighter with a length of 8m ought to be visible more or less at 26km.  Now i will stress that is ideal conditions.

Good question. Now first of all, I'll re-iterate that I am not an expert in human vision (though I will claim some expertise in computer vision) but I've thought about it some more and I think 4m is correct for a Heinkel. Take a hair for example; although it can be rather long, you won't see it if you're more than let's say a metre away. If your eyes cannot perceive a height less than 1 arcminute, everything smaller will have a perceptive height of 0 which means it will be invisible. So you should take the smallest dimension, and hence a fighter should not be visible at much more than 10km under normal circumstances, at which the angular height of the fighter sinks below 1 arcminute and hence becomes imperceptible.

 

But that's just the engineer in me speaking; a neurologist or optomotrist might differ

 

On 7/14/2020 at 6:59 PM, hnbdgr said:

Look guys, at the end of the day this is a very similar thing as with the original time compression limit and bouncy planes fm and other stuff. People picked up on it as they recognized it as a problem that's in the way of this game reaching its full potential. You then had lots of people come out in defence of it - cooking up all sorts of rationalizations in why that's actually better. In case of the fm - why the fm is actually really supposed to be this way.... ?‍♂️ Then once it got fixed, those people stopped mentioning it as they recognised the improved fm was indeed improved.

I'm someone who generally comes out in defence of the current situation (although definitely not always!). It's perfectly valid for people to say that the current functionality is not fun to them. That's subjective, so I cannot argue with that. If they say, however, that the current way is *wrong*, then the burden of evidence is on them to prove so. Often that's very easy; it might be enough to give a counterexample from a well-documented real-life WW2 flight report. But regrettably even that rarely happens. People (in general, I'm not specifically talking about you) post about whatever they perceive is "wrong" with the sim without ever giving a shred of evidence that that's indeed the case. That tires me.

 

In this particular case, despite all the complaining, I've yet to see any evidence that spotting is indeed harder than in real-life. On the contrary, accounts from WW2 pilots and also from real-life pilots here on the forums (see ITAF_Gerry_Lil_Rocket's post above) indicate that spotting might actually be very realistic.

 

You are correct in stating that enhanced spotting would likely improve the gaming experience for some and *might* (I'm not as convinced as you are) draw more people online, but there are also people, of which I'm one, who like things as realistic as possible, including spotting. Hence, unless someone brings in any actual evidence that spotting is indeed unrealistic, this whole thing is a matter of opinion and not some "issue" that needs to be "fixed".

[Velxra]

If the game was not so washed out with a blurry filter on top. There would be no reason for using reshade. But since the game has both these problems that will never be fixed we have to adjust the image for better realism. The game looks dull grey like it's trying to be a ww2 film and many people dislike this altered reality look. I have been using reshade for years to fix this issue in iL2. Now it looks dull again by limiting reshade, great. 

 

Guess I'll just have to live with cartoon bright colors via broad stroke nvidia control panel...

[jollyjack]

On 6/13/2020 at 3:09 PM, ITAF_Airone1989 said:

Try to look: DelanClip. It's cheaper and works pretty the same, I use that and have no difference with TrackIr.

 

I bought a trackhat, no hat, but the unit with the battery, it's around 80 GPB now, but i think i paid quite less, but a while ago.

Works fine, but with the opentrack software better.

It takes a while to get set op right, so that the software only sees the 3 points ONLY, before you start trimming the x-y-z curves.

 

PS what i miss in this 'cheating' aspect of the reshade discussion:

the difference between the graphic cards used; are you a cheater if you own a 'better' class GPU?

Edited August 14, 2020 by jollyjack