Upgrade advice please ... 4k screen or VR ... (Have never experienced VR)

[KPnutskgwanchos]

Hi All ... sorry if there is a basic intro I need to read regards VR but here  are my questions (sorry some of them are really noob but Ive never used VR!) ....

 

1. I have a Sapphire Radeon RX 580 8GB NITRO+ Graphics Card (states VR ready) and an i5 3470 will this be ok for VR (maybe need a faster CPU?)
2. How do you use the keyboard if you are in VR !! 
3. How well integrated is VR in IL2 GB now ? .... I don't want to have to fiddle endlessly with tweeks and mods etc
4. Im in the UK .... What is the best bang for buck headset that most people use (not most expensive)
5. Is VR really that good over a 4k screen or is it a bit of a gimmick like 3d movies?

 

Thanks in anticipation 

 

Karlos

 

 

[simfan2015]

4 minutes ago, KPnutskgwanchos said:

Sapphire Radeon RX 580 8GB NITRO

You won't have any problem with IL-2 GB in 4K.

4 minutes ago, KPnutskgwanchos said:

Is VR really that good over a 4k screen or is it a bit of a gimmick like 3d movies?

That's easy ... get *both* a big high end 2d 4k monitor/TV as wel as e.g the HP reverb for IL-2 (according to many reviews I read on it).

As you know ... so many games have no VR version (yet) !

There are hundreds of posts on this subject, this was only my very personal opinion. 

But as always ... YMMV (and will)

[56RAF_Roke]

1 hour ago, KPnutskgwanchos said:

How do you use the keyboard if you are in VR !! 

 

With some difficulty... Voice Attack software is a gossend for many, and you can't have too many mappable functions on your controllers

 

1 hour ago, KPnutskgwanchos said:

How well integrated is VR in IL2 GB now ? .... I don't want to have to fiddle endlessly with tweeks and mods etc

 

I moved to VR very recently... no mods are required now that zoom is sorted IMO. You will need to experiment with graphics settings, but it's not too bad. 

 

1 hour ago, KPnutskgwanchos said:

Im in the UK .... What is the best bang for buck headset that most people use (not most expensive)

 

Rift S. The better the headset, the beefier the PC required to take full advantage. My Ryzen 3600 and 4 year-old Titan X pascal (approximate 1080Ti equivalent) drive the game just fine on the Rift S. I tried a Vive Cosmos and the higher resolution made it much more of a struggle. 

 

1 hour ago, KPnutskgwanchos said:

Is VR really that good over a 4k screen or is it a bit of a gimmick like 3d movies?

 

Oh, it's no gimmick, it's fantastic 

 

As to the 4k screen, it depends how many other non-VR games you play. If Il2 is the main one, VR should be your priority IMO.

 

Roke

 

[SIA_Sp00k]

Listen to us and theres a chance you get it wrong. Listen to yourself and you cannot go wrong.

[KPnutskgwanchos]

3 minutes ago, TWC_Sp00k said:

Listen to us and theres a chance you get it wrong. Listen to yourself and you cannot go wrong.

No worries Spook .... in the end I will listen to others opinions and use them in the mix to  form my own .... but sometimes getting it wrong is just a town you pass thru on the way to getting it right   

19 minutes ago, 56RAF_Roke said:

 

With some difficulty... Voice Attack software is a gossend for many, and you can't have too many mappable functions on your controllers

 

 

I moved to VR very recently... no mods are required now that zoom is sorted IMO. You will need to experiment with graphics settings, but it's not too bad. 

 

 

Rift S. The better the headset, the beefier the PC required to take full advantage. My Ryzen 3600 and 4 year-old Titan X pascal (approximate 1080Ti equivalent) drive the game just fine on the Rift S. I tried a Vive Cosmos and the higher resolution made it much more of a struggle. 

 

 

Oh, it's no gimmick, it's fantastic 

 

As to the 4k screen, it depends how many other non-VR games you play. If Il2 is the main one, VR should be your priority IMO.

 

Roke

 

Very useful thanks Roke ..... must say Im struggling with the no keyboard use with VR ... and I only have an Sidewinder 2 stick so maybe I would need new controls as well ! 

[firdimigdi]

4 hours ago, KPnutskgwanchos said:

Hi All ... sorry if there is a basic intro I need to read regards VR but here  are my questions (sorry some of them are really noob but Ive never used VR!) ....

 

1. I have a Sapphire Radeon RX 580 8GB NITRO+ Graphics Card (states VR ready) and an i5 3470 will this be ok for VR (maybe need a faster CPU?)
2. How do you use the keyboard if you are in VR !! 
3. How well integrated is VR in IL2 GB now ? .... I don't want to have to fiddle endlessly with tweeks and mods etc
4. Im in the UK .... What is the best bang for buck headset that most people use (not most expensive)
5. Is VR really that good over a 4k screen or is it a bit of a gimmick like 3d movies?

 

Thanks in anticipation 

 

Karlos

 

 

 

2. Touch typing helps but binding all the essentials to your controller/HOTAS is optimal. if that isn't an option then as mentioned above voice recognition helps, just make sure you can toggle it on and off or it's properly trained; don't want it lowering gear while you're praising an opponent's ability to avoid your bullets.

3. The flying, presence (motion/positional audio) and controlling is very very well done. Turrets need some loving as they're a bit clunky with mouse control but anything else is really good. Maybe if our cockpits were interactive and touch controller support was added (with mouse support for screens) it would be nice and would go a way to reduce the amount of non-essential input bindings you have to make but it's certainly not critical. Performance might vary based on hardware and one session will be required to fine-tune it to your liking.

5. I have a 43" 4K monitor and still prefer VR when playing. The colors and resolution on the monitor, plus the fact that it's less taxing on your system so you can turn on all the  bells and whistles puts it very much ahead of VR as far as rendering fidelity goes ... BUT... in VR I am actually sitting in a freaking ww2 warplane getting my ass shot at.

[KPnutskgwanchos]

10 minutes ago, Firdimigdi said:

 

2. Touch typing helps but binding all the essentials to your controller/HOTAS is optimal. if that isn't an option then as mentioned above voice recognition helps, just make sure you can toggle it on and off or it's properly trained; don't want it lowering gear while you're praising an opponent's ability to avoid your bullets.

3. The flying, presence (motion/positional audio) and controlling is very very well done. Turrets need some loving as they're a bit clunky with mouse control but anything else is really good. Maybe if our cockpits were interactive and touch controller support was added (with mouse support for screens) it would be nice and would go a way to reduce the amount of non-essential input bindings you have to make but it's certainly not critical. Performance might vary based on hardware and one session will be required to fine-tune it to your liking.

5. I have a 43" 4K monitor and still prefer VR when playing. The colors and resolution on the monitor, plus the fact that it's less taxing on your system so you can turn on all the  bells and whistles puts it very much ahead of VR as far as rendering fidelity goes ... BUT... in VR I am actually sitting in a freaking ww2 warplane getting my ass shot at.

Thanks Firdimigdi .... right so immersion is the vibe Im getting ..... Im very  tempted by this aspect of the experience .... so if Im reading you right the game wont LOOK better in VR (maybe worse) but the immersion  factor is thru the roof ....    

[firdimigdi]

Yeah, it's very hardware dependent on how much you can can crank up the pretties. And in IL-2's case game-mode dependent come to think of it - career mode if it's set to high activity levels can take a fair chunk of framerate out of it, but I believe the latter is the same if played on a monitor.

 

If you have a way of trying it out before diving in, like a mate with an headset that you can try the game on, then that'd probably be best.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Firdimigdi

[DD_Crash]

A quote from the DangerDog forum when Arthur tried his Rift

I mean....where do you start?

 Apart from getting it going I've done no fine tuning or anything. I've still got the blue ring down at my feet. It's still rough and ready.

I'm still going through the 'Blade Runner' moment. 

 

I'm flying a Spitfire.  The cockpit is.....just right.

  It's not too big - like a P47, where it seems there's room for another one standing. It's not too tight, like the FW190D.  Now that really is one steel and glass coffin!

 I look down through the perspex at the sweep of the wings and below the trailing edge I can see the earth between racing clouds. 

Ahead and to my left a distant smudge is slowly resolving into a Heinkel.  It gets bigger and bigger and it's round and fat.  The sun twinkles on it.

 It's big.  I slide my little Spitfire in behind it.

 I open fire and big chunks start to fall off. Lots of smoke just above my mirror.  I sit inside my cockpit and my aircraft is alive. 

 I fire again and can't see too much now because of the smoke coming out of it but yes, it's on fire. Really on fire. 

This big, fat aeroplane which I'm alongside of is on fire and the crew are crawling out and their chutes are opening.  The tail is riddled by bullet holes.

 I have to jink out of the way as the Heinkel drops a wing and lurches towards me.

It goes under me and I loose it.   It's gone.  I hurt something in my neck looking for it.

   I've managed to put my 'plane in a steep dive.

The ground starts to come up.  No, I really don't want to do that.  I REALLY don't want to do that!

I feel some....unease,  as the the ground comes rapidly up into my face.  And it's over and I think I'll take this thing off......

I'm sweating. 

Edited June 11, 2020 by DD_Crash

[Hoots]

The ground coming up still gets me. The other thing I really notice is light flak, it's just as the descriptions of it are, so slow at first and then it's all over you at some tremendous speed.

I've tried going back to 2d but it's not the same as it used to be.

 

[dburne]

2 hours ago, Hoots said:

The ground coming up still gets me. The other thing I really notice is light flak, it's just as the descriptions of it are, so slow at first and then it's all over you at some tremendous speed.

I've tried going back to 2d but it's not the same as it used to be.

 

 

Yeah it is so realistic, I will oftentimes come in  fairly low and close to the runway, then bank and make my turn onto final as I watch the ground continuing to rise upa t me.

That feeling of sensation, of the height , is hard to express. It truly is an incredible feeling.

And this game - IL-2 Great Battles, is just so dang gorgeous in VR. Even on my Rift S which is not top of the line in resolution, it still is quite gorgeous.

I fly a lot in IL-2, practically every day. Yesterday I did around 6 hours of flying. 

And each and every mission, I get that feeling all throughout. 

 

I was a regular player of IL-2 GB before I got into VR in Jan 2017. But I will say after I got my first headset and they added VR support, my play time has increased

dramatically.  The sense of actual presence in the game now, is just an incredible feeling. I do all my PWCG missions cold start and taxi to runway.

Love having the canopy open hanging my head out a little. I can almost feel the breeze and smell the exhaust from planes in front of me as we taxi.

When I put my headset on and launch IL-2, I literally escape totally into that world.

[TWC_NINja]

I was in the same boat you're in 7 months or so ago...

 

I used to fly on a 49" 4K and it's gorgeous... but I was itching to try out what VR was like. So I got a Rift S when it was on sale. Turns out, my i7 2700k and GTX 970 was too weak to enjoy VR fully. So I got a GTX 1080Ti. Much improved but still choking on CPU, and robbed me of any real enjoyment.

 

Finally, Black Friday arrived and I got a new rig with i7-9700k and RTX 2080S. NOW I'm experiencing some smoooooth VR.

But the Rift S had some screen door effect, and the image wasn't as clear as I had hoped...

 

So I pulled the trigger on a Reverb. And since then, I've been tweaking settings almost every time I fly just to get the best balance between eye-candy and performance. And each time, as I get close to attaining nirvana, there's an update. And the process repeats. More tweaking...

 

This game has come a long way in just a few months, and although I haven't tested VR in a lot of games, I truly enjoy donning my goggles and flying. The experience is as real as it gets. The first few flights (even with shortcomings) I was feeling "airsick" from barrel rolls and when I land and taxi to a full stop, I always lurched forward when the aircraft stops. As the flight time increased, these become trained in and I no longer feel the adverse effects. Now I only feel the rush of closing in on a bandit for the kill, and the occasional joy ride cruising the skies of Belgium and winding around, 100 ft above the waterways, enjoying the scenery.

 

The realism of VR ABSOLUTELY increases the enjoyment, and the immersive experience multiplies your situational awareness exponentially - mush easier to track targets, gauge distance and speed, and overall perception of surroundings. VR is lighyears ahead compared to TrackIR.

 

Sorry to ramble, but I can't say enough about the benefits of VR. I will never go back to flat screens. And as technology improves, so will the experience.

 

Good luck, whichever way you choose.  

Edited June 11, 2020 by TWC_NINja

[Stoopy]

What gets me is the little unexpected things that produce an involuntary physical reaction.    For example just the simple task of taxiing.   When I'm going along a taxiway and come up to the runway,  I always check for any traffic on final before I pull onto the runway.   

 

I do it all in on smooth motion so as I'm looking to the side and pressing the brakes, my upper torso involuntarily leans forward in the chair as if by momentum as the plane comes to a stop,  every time.  I have no idea why my brain is making my body do that, but it's awesome.   Or it might just be that I'm not really physically doing that, but my brain is telling me that I am.

 

And the way your stomach sinks down the first few times time you do a roll or loop in VR ... never gets old. 

10 minutes ago, TWC_NINja said:

The first few flights (even with shortcomings) I was feeling "airsick" from barrel rolls and when I land and taxi to a full stop, I always lurched forward when the aircraft stops.

 

LMAO - Dude!!!!  You posted this while I was writing about experiencing that exact same physical reaction!!!

 

Been tweaking my Reverb too and have finally landed on some AMAZING settings, I'm not gonna touch it now.  Been meaning to post.

 

 

[TWC_NINja]

1 hour ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

Been tweaking my Reverb too and have finally landed on some AMAZING settings, I'm not gonna touch it now.  Been meaning to post.

 

I think I'm dialed in on mine now, too. Looks great, and smooth on 60Hz.

[VR-DriftaholiC]

14 hours ago, KPnutskgwanchos said:

Hi All ... sorry if there is a basic intro I need to read regards VR but here  are my questions (sorry some of them are really noob but Ive never used VR!) ....

 

Far from a gimmick! Just read 

 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

First things first, a bit blunt but honestly important:

 

1. You will definitely need to ugprade your CPU and RAM. Target CPU: SingleCore speed to 4.8GHz overclocked (no AVX handbrake), and RAM DDR4 at 3200MHz.

2. You will need to upgrade your GPU as well, the Sapphire Radeon RX 580 8GB NITRO+ barely keeps up with a GTX1070.

 

@TWC_NINja gave very good advice in which direction to upgrade. Avoid AMD if you can, their CPUs don't do well in VR with Simulations (SingleCore speed important), and their GPUs produce some artifacts (especially recently). Also note Ninja's point on the comparison RiftS vs Reverb for Simulations. The latter is much better for this and still in humane price ranges. 

 

Now to what I'd recommend:

3. I have a 4K 65" OLED (LG C8) and have had most headsets out there for comparison (see signature). I recommend VR.

[56RAF_Roke]

My CPU frametime, whilst flying several hours multiplayer last Sunday never got above 8.1 for about 98% of the time. GPU frametime hardly ever above 11.5. Graphics in general on medium to high settings. 

 

That's with Ryzen 3600. Having an Intel CPU used to be critical, but the devs seem to have successfully shifted a lot of the load from the cpu to gpu with recent updates. Most of the time my Ryzen doesn't break into a sweat. 

 

Roke

 

[KPnutskgwanchos]

Thanks so much for the advice on VR folks. I'm desperate to try it out as it sounds incredible. Unfortunately it seems I will have to spend what to me is a small fortune to get a decent experience out of VR at the moment. So I will prob have to go with a nicer screen for now and wait for the tech to advance to a point where the power required to run VR doesn't come with cutting edge prices.  I really look forward to that day tho. Thanks again folks ?

[DD_Crash]

There is always ebay Last generation MB/CPU/1070 might do you

[dburne]

3 hours ago, 56RAF_Roke said:

My CPU frametime, whilst flying several hours multiplayer last Sunday never got above 8.1 for about 98% of the time. GPU frametime hardly ever above 11.5. Graphics in general on medium to high settings. 

 

That's with Ryzen 3600. Having an Intel CPU used to be critical, but the devs seem to have successfully shifted a lot of the load from the cpu to gpu with recent updates. Most of the time my Ryzen doesn't break into a sweat. 

 

Roke

 

 

I would say a little of the load has been shifted with deferred rendering, but VR in IL-2 is certainly still very CPU dependent. Same thing I observed with DCS which moved to deferred rendering some time ago. My CPU still gets a pretty hard workout, more so than my GPU does.

 

[DarKcyde]

On 6/11/2020 at 2:23 AM, KPnutskgwanchos said:

1. I have a Sapphire Radeon RX 580 8GB NITRO+ Graphics Card (states VR ready) and an i5 3470 will this be ok for VR (maybe need a faster CPU?)
   1. YES you'll  want faster.  That's very close to minimum spec in VR.  5Ghz CPU overclock is your target, and as much GPU as you can afford.  VR is still very hard on your system, unless you only play BeatSaber.
2. How do you use the keyboard if you are in VR !
   1. You don't.  HOTAS with plenty of buttons required.
3. How well integrated is VR in IL2 GB now ? .... I don't want to have to fiddle endlessly with tweeks and mods etc
   1. It works great out of the box.
4. Im in the UK .... What is the best bang for buck headset that most people use (not most expensive)
   1. Best bang for buck right now is Rift S.
5. Is VR really that good over a 4k screen or is it a bit of a gimmick like 3d movies?
   1. The difference between playing a game about airplanes, and flying an airplane.

 

 

[Bernard_IV]

On 6/11/2020 at 2:23 AM, KPnutskgwanchos said:

Hi All ... sorry if there is a basic intro I need to read regards VR but here  are my questions (sorry some of them are really noob but Ive never used VR!) ....

 

1. I have a Sapphire Radeon RX 580 8GB NITRO+ Graphics Card (states VR ready) and an i5 3470 will this be ok for VR (maybe need a faster CPU?)
2. How do you use the keyboard if you are in VR !! 
3. How well integrated is VR in IL2 GB now ? .... I don't want to have to fiddle endlessly with tweeks and mods etc
4. Im in the UK .... What is the best bang for buck headset that most people use (not most expensive)
5. Is VR really that good over a 4k screen or is it a bit of a gimmick like 3d movies?

 

Thanks in anticipation 

 

Karlos

 

 

1. You might be able do do OK on one of the lower end headsets at 45fps or so with that system but to run a VR headset at top performance takes a beast PC.  I run a 7700k and a 1080ti which can be had for reasonable prices lately and I find that to be really good but could benefit from a bigger graphics card with Reverb.

2. Lift up the headset a quick sec.

3. It's really good but requires high end hardware to run really well.

4. Rift S probably for the best bargain.  Index and Reverb have their strong points but are more expensive.

5. VR is really fun and immersive but if you are serious about it you'll want a newer processor at 4.8ghz+ and a 1080ti or better.  For me I need that high framerate to be comfortable, your experience may vary.

[56RAF_Roke]

1 hour ago, dburne said:

 

My CPU still gets a pretty hard workout, more so than my GPU does.

 

 

Hi dburne

 

I'm just looking at the fpsvr readout from steam (yes, I know I should run Open Composite ?), which suggests (based on reported frametime) its the opposite for me. 

 

Happy to share the readings, but is there another measurement I should be looking at? I realise you have plenty of experience with this. 

 

Roke

[dburne]

1 hour ago, 56RAF_Roke said:

 

Hi dburne

 

I'm just looking at the fpsvr readout from steam (yes, I know I should run Open Composite ?), which suggests (based on reported frametime) its the opposite for me. 

 

Happy to share the readings, but is there another measurement I should be looking at? I realise you have plenty of experience with this. 

 

Roke

 

I am just basing it on the observed GPU usage and temps, and compare to CPU usage.

Unscientific I know, but suggests to me it is still pretty dependent on CPU core speed. Pretty sure my GPU could easily handle more thrown at it.

It would be nice to get even more load off the CPU onto the GPU, but not quite there yet. My GPU hardly breaks a sweat. 

It gets a little more workout when heavy clouds enter the picture.

And yes I do run Open Composite.

 

 

Edited June 13, 2020 by dburne

[Alonzo]

2 hours ago, dburne said:

I am just basing it on the observed GPU usage and temps, and compare to CPU usage.

Unscientific I know, but suggests to me it is still pretty dependent on CPU core speed. Pretty sure my GPU could easily handle more thrown at it.

It would be nice to get even more load off the CPU onto the GPU, but not quite there yet. My GPU hardly breaks a sweat. 

It gets a little more workout when heavy clouds enter the picture.

And yes I do run Open Composite.

 

4 hours ago, 56RAF_Roke said:

I'm just looking at the fpsvr readout from steam (yes, I know I should run Open Composite ?), which suggests (based on reported frametime) its the opposite for me.

 

Based on the CPU frame times, I'd say a lot of the load has shifted to the GPU. Whenever I drop below 80 FPS (framerate cap on my Rift S), it's because of GPU time, not CPU time. Now, I only run High settings, it might be that Ultra and lots of eye candy pushes the CPU harder. But I'm seeing very low frame times, like 5-6ms, on my 8086K @ 4.9ghz.

 

Basically I would recommend a 9600K with a decent cooler, get it to 4.8ghz, then put the rest of your money into the GPU.

[WheelwrightPL]

VR and 4k each have advantages and disadvantages. So if your budget allows: go for both because they are so different and complement each other so well.

However if you must choose it depends on what you prefer: if you prioritize that "wow" realization of actually being in a WW2-fighter cockpit, and the actual physical sensation of flight (to some degree), then go for VR.

 

If you are more after a good gameplay, than the experience, I would say go for a 4k monitor, because compared to VR you will be able to spot targets sooner (4k image is much sharper, even HP Reverb doesn't come close), check your 6 o'clock effortlessly, use all the keyboard commands and so on.

 

For VR I recommend this joystick (I use Mk2 Pro version of it myself): https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=gladiator-k  The reason is because all its buttons and switches are designed to be easily found blindly, it didn't take me long at all to operate it entirely by feel.

 

Also you will need extreme hardware for the best image-quality VR experience (by which I mean the Reverb). As an owner of that VR headset I cannot run Reverb at high quality settings in IL2 despite having RTX2080Ti. Speaking from personal experience: the switch to a new graphics engine in IL2 didn't make a noticeable improvement to the (unsatisfactory for me) VR performance.

 

 

[chiliwili69]

13 hours ago, KPnutskgwanchos said:

So I will prob have to go with a nicer screen for now and wait for the tech to advance to a point where the power required to run VR doesn't come with cutting edge prices

 

Hey man, listen to me.

Buy a second hand Rift-S or even Rift CV1 and just try IL-2 VR even with a basic joystick and keyboard (just to try the VR thing).

Then, if you like it, you will save every penny to have better headsets and HOTAS or full equipped joystick.

[kirk66]

It's already been said, but well worth repeating: IL-2 on a 4k screen is playing a beautiful game - but still a game. IL-2 in VR is flying beautiful airplanes.

 

I'm not a gamer, but I am a pilot - and I love IL-2 in VR.

 

Vulture

[unlikely_spider]

I'm not one of those people who think that it feels like "playing a game" in 2d but "flying a plane" in VR - each has its pros and cons. Especially if you get a very high resolution screen - the current quality of most VR headsets is kind of hard to swallow by comparison. I can happily go back and forth between the two depending on my mood or the situation.

I am interested in seeing reviews of the new HP headset coming out this fall though.

 

Edit - and talking about it got me to go and pre-order one, lol. That headset seems to have all the bells and whistles at a relatively good price.

Edited June 13, 2020 by unlikely_spider