Looking for advice to remove Warthog 'sticktion'.

[Mysticpuma]

Hi everyone. So here is my question if anyone can advise me please.
A few years back I had a Thrustmaster Cougar which I had modified to have a Gimbal and Hall Sensors, it was, to be honest, the best, smoothest stick I have ever used until finally it died.
Having been impressed with Thrustmaster I then ordered the Warthog, which is certainly a solid piece of kit.... but....... the 'sticktion" is frustrating me beyond belief.
I only fly WW2 Combat Flight Sims and getting in close and shooting accurately while working around the centre point of the Warthog is doing me noodle in!

So currently is there anything that other users can recommend so that I can get the stick nice and smooth when it comes to operating it for the intricate movements?

Links would be great along with prices, cheers, MP

[DD_Crash]

extention can help

[=RS=haikcube]

I lubricated mine with silicon grease, its a bit of a dust magnet and there will still be sticktion on the center point of the gimbal but i find that it reduces the plastic on plastic friction noticeably making operation smoother.

If you require even more precision,you could look into modding the warthog with a weaker gimbal spring or getting a stick extension to make it easier to push past the "center zone"

If your interested in a stick extension , one of our fellow forums denizen is selling those but I'm not being paid to advertise his products so do shop around.

https://warthog-extensions-by-sahaj.com/

 

[HunDread]

57 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

Hi everyone. So here is my question if anyone can advise me please.
A few years back I had a Thrustmaster Cougar which I had modified to have a Gimbal and Hall Sensors, it was, to be honest, the best, smoothest stick I have ever used until finally it died.
Having been impressed with Thrustmaster I then ordered the Warthog, which is certainly a solid piece of kit.... but....... the 'sticktion" is frustrating me beyond belief.
I only fly WW2 Combat Flight Sims and getting in close and shooting accurately while working around the centre point of the Warthog is doing me noodle in!

So currently is there anything that other users can recommend so that I can get the stick nice and smooth when it comes to operating it for the intricate movements?

Links would be great along with prices, cheers, MP

 

I had a saitek x52 pro once which had bad sticktion. I tried several lubricants from wd-40 to silicon grease. All helped a bit temporarily but made it worse in a couple of hours.

 

Finally I found a product - Nyogel damping grease (they have several products actually) which worked like a dream. No more sticktion and even gave a nice hidraulic feel to the stick. It's quite pricey but one tube will probably be enough for your grandchildren too.

 

But also note that I never had the warthog so I cannot be sure the sticktion is the same as it was with the saitek.

 

[JG1_Vonrd]

Hi MP,

I don't have a Warthog but when I was considering getting one I came across this:

 

 

[Vortice]

I finally gave up on Thrustmaster after 15 years of Cougar and Warthog frustrations and bought a Virpil VPC WarBRD base.

 

Currently using the WarBRD base with the Cougar handle and it works like a dream. I couldn't be happier with the outcome and it is giving me my best plane control experience ever.

[69th_Panp]

I have used MolyKote / 44 medium from dow Corning on all my warthogs.

Works great and wont damage any plastics

[von_Tom]

Extension plus a VPC MongoosT-50CM2 Base.

 

von Tom

[Mauf]

Heya MP,

 

yes, the warthog stiffness is a real nuisance... or a huge blessing when you use an extension. What it is too much without, it is just right with. There was a way to mod it by removing the big centering spring and inverting the cap springs over the gimbal (so the cap presses down on the stick when the cover is put on) which ends up with a pretty noodly stick but workable. I advise against that as it might damage components over time.

 

Do yourself a favour and get an extension because that will get you the max out of the great resolution the hall sensors afford you.

 

And once that is done, get real dirty and do stuff like this:

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Mauf

[Sokol1]

Best way to deal with this Warthog stiction issue is buy a VirPil WarBRD base, more suitable for WWII CFS than VirPil MoongosT50 CM2 base.

Warhog grip is compatible with VirPil bases, what gimbals ins made in metal, with bearings in pivots (simiular do old Cougar UberNXT gimbal) and better, use CAM for centering, what you allow customize, changing springs, CAM profiles, setting the center position, more defined or more soft.

 

Anyway the palliative for warthog stiction is disassemble the gimbal, sand gimbal ball imperfections and lubricate with Nyogel 767-A, a damper grease.

See this Jabber's (joystick reviewer) video:

 

 

 

[Mysticpuma]

Thanks all of you. Will start investigating options, cheers, MP

[von_Tom]

4 hours ago, Sokol1 said:

... buy a VirPil WarBRD base, more suitable for WWII CFS than VirPil MoongosT50 CM2 

 

 

I’m curious why you think that. I can understand one being suitable as a desktop joystick and the other on a mount, but on a mount with an extension my Mongoos base is excellent. 
 

@Mysticpuma My opinion of the VPC/VIRPIL  base is that you don’t get an immediate “wow” moment but after an hour you realise everything is smoother and more accurate and that there are incremental improvements over the Warthog in every aspect. 
 

The only frustrating thing is the initial setup. If you do go down this route I recommend the Aviasim cams - soft centre for elevator and no centre for ailerons is my choice. Strong springs. 
 

You can still use TARGET too. The only potential downside with the Mongoos base is that you need a desk mount and then a desk mount for your throttle if you don’t have one already. The T50CM2 throttle is a big improvement over the Warthog throttle too. 
 

von Tom

 

ps. Downside 2 = £££££££

Edited May 28, 2020 by von_Tom

[choctaw111]

On 5/27/2020 at 11:43 PM, Sokol1 said:

Best way to deal with this Warthog stiction issue is buy a VirPil WarBRD base, more suitable for WWII CFS than VirPil MoongosT50 CM2 base.

Warhog grip is compatible with VirPil bases, what gimbals ins made in metal, with bearings in pivots (simiular do old Cougar UberNXT gimbal) and better, use CAM for centering, what you allow customize, changing springs, CAM profiles, setting the center position, more defined or more soft.

 

Anyway the palliative for warthog stiction is disassemble the gimbal, sand gimbal ball imperfections and lubricate with Nyogel 767-A, a damper grease.

See this Jabber's (joystick reviewer) video:

 

 

 

Having just replaced my CH setup I've had for nearly 20 years with the Warthog HOTAS, I see what people were talking about how stiff the stick is!  I was ready to buy the VirPil WarBRD base from their US website and see it's on backorder!  Would there be some other alternatives that come close or is this one simply the best by far?

[1Sascha]

16 hours ago, choctaw111 said:

I was ready to buy the VirPil WarBRD base from their US website and see it's on backorder!  Would there be some other alternatives that come close or is this one simply the best by far?

Everything is always "on back order" in the Virpil store. They are working on overhauling their store, but for the time being, that's how it is. If they have your products on hand, your order will be sent out very quickly. If not, you'll have to wait a bit, but support is excellent and they will tell you how long the expected wait time is if you shoot them an email.

 

That said: They're currently still working on getting all the orders from BF and X-Mas sales out the door. Some folks have been waiting since late Nov, but it's mostly down to some items being scarce at the moment. IIRC, the new stuff like the Alpha Prime grips, CM3 base and a lot of the accessories (mounts, dust-covers, springs) are currently what are holding things up. Virpil will wait until all your products are in stock before they ship your order, so if you have, say, a €20 adapter rail ordered along with your €400+ throttle (like I do), the order will not get shipped if the throttle is available/ready to ship but the adapter isn't. It's not a huge deal if you know what you're in for plus I did get a 10% discount because I ordered during the X-mas sale. If everything goes well, I should have my throttle here within 10 to 14 days from now (I ordered on Jan 3rd).

 

WarBRD is actually their entry level product. It doesn't have dampening and it's not recommended for use with extensions. Personally, I would either go for the CM3 base from Virpil (which *does* have dampeners/clutches) or with the VKB Gunfighter. Don't get me wrong: I'm sure the WarBRD is a very good base, but I wouldn't want a stick in this price-range without dampening. When I ordered back in August 2022, the VKB was quite a bit less expensive than the Virpil CM3 and since I already owned a Gladiator Evo and was very happy with it, I stuck with VKB. Now that they've raised their prices on the GF (at least over here in the EU-store), I probably would be looking at the Virpil CM3 if I was shopping right now.

 

 

 

Overall, the Gunfighter is a very good product and the best stick, by far, I've ever used in 25+ years of sim-flight. The precision and smoothness are incredible and there is a marked improvement even over their Gladiator Evo - which is also a very, very good stick.

 

 

S.

 

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by 1Sascha

[BladeMeister]

On 5/26/2020 at 10:46 AM, Mysticpuma said:

Hi everyone. So here is my question if anyone can advise me please.
A few years back I had a Thrustmaster Cougar which I had modified to have a Gimbal and Hall Sensors, it was, to be honest, the best, smoothest stick I have ever used until finally it died.
Having been impressed with Thrustmaster I then ordered the Warthog, which is certainly a solid piece of kit.... but....... the 'sticktion" is frustrating me beyond belief.
I only fly WW2 Combat Flight Sims and getting in close and shooting accurately while working around the centre point of the Warthog is doing me noodle in!

So currently is there anything that other users can recommend so that I can get the stick nice and smooth when it comes to operating it for the intricate movements?

Links would be great along with prices, cheers, MP

Get rid of the Warthog and get a VKB Gunfighter III with a 200mm extension and a drop mount or build a custom floor mount. One of the Best purchases I have ever made. Only wish I had done it much sooner.

 

S!

[choctaw111]

14 hours ago, 1Sascha said:

Everything is always "on back order" in the Virpil store. They are working on overhauling their store, but for the time being, that's how it is. If they have your products on hand, your order will be sent out very quickly. If not, you'll have to wait a bit, but support is excellent and they will tell you how long the expected wait time is if you shoot them an email.

 

That said: They're currently still working on getting all the orders from BF and X-Mas sales out the door. Some folks have been waiting since late Nov, but it's mostly down to some items being scarce at the moment. IIRC, the new stuff like the Alpha Prime grips, CM3 base and a lot of the accessories (mounts, dust-covers, springs) are currently what are holding things up. Virpil will wait until all your products are in stock before they ship your order, so if you have, say, a €20 adapter rail ordered along with your €400+ throttle (like I do), the order will not get shipped if the throttle is available/ready to ship but the adapter isn't. It's not a huge deal if you know what you're in for plus I did get a 10% discount because I ordered during the X-mas sale. If everything goes well, I should have my throttle here within 10 to 14 days from now (I ordered on Jan 3rd).

 

WarBRD is actually their entry level product. It doesn't have dampening and it's not recommended for use with extensions. Personally, I would either go for the CM3 base from Virpil (which *does* have dampeners/clutches) or with the VKB Gunfighter. Don't get me wrong: I'm sure the WarBRD is a very good base, but I wouldn't want a stick in this price-range without dampening. When I ordered back in August 2022, the VKB was quite a bit less expensive than the Virpil CM3 and since I already owned a Gladiator Evo and was very happy with it, I stuck with VKB. Now that they've raised their prices on the GF (at least over here in the EU-store), I probably would be looking at the Virpil CM3 if I was shopping right now.

 

 

 

Overall, the Gunfighter is a very good product and the best stick, by far, I've ever used in 25+ years of sim-flight. The precision and smoothness are incredible and there is a marked improvement even over their Gladiator Evo - which is also a very, very good stick.

 

 

S.

 

 

Thanks for the info.  I did email them and they said about 4 or 5 weeks.  I'm good with that so I ordered a VPC MongoosT-50CM3 Base, VPC MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle, and a VPC Constellation ALPHA Prime for about $1,000 total.  Now I have a brand new Warthog HOTAS that I REALLY don't like.  I thought it would be better than my custom CH setup but it's not even close.  I think that the Virpil setup will be a big improvement over the CH though and I'm really anxious to get it set up!

[1Sascha]

7 hours ago, choctaw111 said:

I'm good with that so I ordered a VPC MongoosT-50CM3 Base, VPC MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle, and a VPC Constellation ALPHA Prime for about $1,000 total.

Nice! That is about as good as it gets WRT luxury HOTAS (IMO). I hope you didn't forget to grab some desk-mounts, because I'm pretty sure that CM3 isn't really meant to be used sitting on the desk... And with the spring-strengths and dampening involved, I am pretty sure it wouldn't be much fun to have it sitting on the desk anyway.

 

Plus it's just sooooo much nicer to have the stick sitting between your legs as it would in a real WW2 fighter.

 

 

S.

[choctaw111]

2 hours ago, 1Sascha said:

Nice! That is about as good as it gets WRT luxury HOTAS (IMO). I hope you didn't forget to grab some desk-mounts, because I'm pretty sure that CM3 isn't really meant to be used sitting on the desk... And with the spring-strengths and dampening involved, I am pretty sure it wouldn't be much fun to have it sitting on the desk anyway.

 

Plus it's just sooooo much nicer to have the stick sitting between your legs as it would in a real WW2 fighter.

 

 

S.

I have an old office chair that I modified as a sim chair and have been using it for nearly 25 years.  The stick and throttle are positioned for the best ergonomics for me

[1Sascha]

Just adding this here, because it's the first vid I came across to show the CM3's internals in close-up and in detail, and... yeah... that thing looks insanely overbuilt and rugged.

 

 

Being a relatively new GF user but with already quite a bit of experience in taking it apart and putting it back together, there are some smaller details about the CM3 that I really like (and that I also mentioned in my comment on the vid). Like the fact that that internal cable at around 4:50 has an additional layer of insulation around it and is tucked away rather neatly and out of the way. Or the fact that taking the housing apart to get to the gimbal seems very convenient/hassle-free and well thought out (connection daughter-board just "snaps" in and out for example).

 

That said: I've never used, let along taken apart the CM3, so there might be other pitfalls hidden within its construction when you have to dig deeper... not sure about that. All in all, this looks like an insanely good gimbal and VKB should probably start working on a GF Mk IV if they plan to keep up. Especially now that they've raised the price to nearly €500 - which is about the same as the CM3 plus T50 CM2 grip on sale and only ~€60 less when the CM3 isn't on sale.

 

Without having used it, I can see only one drawback at the moment, and that's the CM3's outright gigantic dimensions compared to the GF's base ... so integrating it into my HOTAS/desk/chair setup might be a bit problematic - especially since I fly center-stick and my chair does not have a stick/extension cutout in its seat.

 

 

S.

 

 

[69th_Panp]

Best way to deal with this Warthog stiction issue is buy a VirPil WarBRD base, 

 

I couldnt agree more 

Picked up my CM3 and never looked back?

 

2 warthogs collecting dust in the garage. ?

Edited January 26, 2023 by 69th_Panp

[[CPT]Crunch]

Have the original CM base from first batch production 2017 along with the first release big throttle, all still going strong, feel as great as the first day I used them.  Put the full length curved extension on this year, updated the chair, works great.  Built for a lifetime, put lots of hours on them trouble free.  Had a button or two pop off from getting hooked on clothing, but a little dab of glue fixes that.  No trouble with switches or buttons.  Stick software corrupted once, thought it was bricked because windows couldn't see it, but the VPC software saw an unidentified device and a quick reflash back to factory spec fixed it.  

 

Rock solid kit after six years of heavy use, and this is the first batch stuff before they perfected it all.  And the software never abandoned this first gen hardware as typical for most products.  Top notch company.  Did get a panel #3 in the last six months from US store, my 35 year A&P brothers comment when I used his metal bender to make a mount for it, "this is aviation grade stuff".

 

Also grabbed a warthog for my young ones, blah, over priced plastic crap.