Yak-9 First Impressions?

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

Does anybody know the AP / He ratio in the 37mm mixed loadout gun belt?    It seems to me that it fires a few AP rounds first and then 1 HE but, I can't quite tell.  

It doesn't seem to me that the ammo belt for mixed loadout is staggered 1:1 between AP and HE.   

 

Anybody else notice that, or is it just me?  

[CountZero]

6 minutes ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

Does anybody know the AP / He ratio in the 37mm mixed loadout gun belt?    It seems to me that it fires a few AP rounds first and then 1 HE but, I can't quite tell.  

It doesn't seem to me that the ammo belt for mixed loadout is staggered 1:1 between AP and HE.   

 

Anybody else notice that, or is it just me?  

 

from file:

[GunAmmunition=1]    // 15 бронебойных и 15 осколочно-фугасных снарядов 37x198 (к пушке НС-37)
    ExpendableMass = 22.50
    ResidualMass = 31.35
    MaxMisFiresInMagazine=0
    MaxRoundsInMagazine=30
    RoundsInMagazine=30
    ReservedMagazines=0
    AmountRoundsWithOneTracer=2    // каждая 2-я пуля с трассером
    object0="LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Ballistics/Projectiles/SHELL_RUS_37x198_AP.txt"
    object1="LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Ballistics/Projectiles/SHELL_RUS_37x198_HE.txt"
    target0="LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Ballistics/Projectiles/SHELL_RUS_37x198_AP.bin"
    target1="LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Ballistics/Projectiles/SHELL_RUS_37x198_HE.bin"
    BushConfig = "LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Trash/Batch_case30-37mm.txt"

 

So it seams its 1:1 ratio 15AP and 15 HE and every 2nd is traicer

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

16 minutes ago, CountZero said:

 

from file:

[GunAmmunition=1]    // 15 бронебойных и 15 осколочно-фугасных снарядов 37x198 (к пушке НС-37)
    ExpendableMass = 22.50
    ResidualMass = 31.35
    MaxMisFiresInMagazine=0
    MaxRoundsInMagazine=30
    RoundsInMagazine=30
    ReservedMagazines=0
    AmountRoundsWithOneTracer=2    // каждая 2-я пуля с трассером
    object0="LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Ballistics/Projectiles/SHELL_RUS_37x198_AP.txt"
    object1="LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Ballistics/Projectiles/SHELL_RUS_37x198_HE.txt"
    target0="LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Ballistics/Projectiles/SHELL_RUS_37x198_AP.bin"
    target1="LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Ballistics/Projectiles/SHELL_RUS_37x198_HE.bin"
    BushConfig = "LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Trash/Batch_case30-37mm.txt"

 

So it seams its 1:1 ratio 15AP and 15 HE and every 2nd is traicer

 

Thanks.  

 

I was attacking tanks in QMB and I thought I was seeing 2-3 hits with AP and then 1 He round.  It would have been interesting if that was the case.  The shooting style would basically be:  Poke holes, then insert HE round. 

Considering getting 4 direct hits in a close pass isn't that hard, it would make for some devastating shots.  Albeit, not 1 shot, 1 kill on tanks - which should be reserved for back armor engine and turret hits anyway. 

Edited May 21, 2020 by 69th_Mobile_BBQ

[Jaws2002]

46 minutes ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

Poke holes, then insert HE round. 

 

 

The chances of hitting the same hole with two bullets, from a 500km/h aircraft are slim to none. and if you don't the HE shell will just explode harmlessly outside the armor.

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

1 minute ago, Jaws2002 said:

 

 

The chances of hitting the same hole with two bullets, from a 500km/h aircraft are slim to none. and if you don't the HE shell will just explode harmlessly outside the armor.

 

With a close enough grouping of AP shots, It might weaken an area enough to allow a HE to punch through or send more concussive energy through the AP holes though.  A steady hand and good aim certainly could produce a tight grouping of shots with this weapon.

[LukeFF]

7 hours ago, 306_Eugenio said:

I've anyhow doubts if one of the primary Russian planes should be sold as "premium". The Yak-9 is as elementary for red star air-force in 1940's as T-34 for army. There is nothing special in Yak-9 series1.

 

There were not that many Yak-9s in the Kuban region during the battles of 1943, and the Yak-9T wasn't really there until 1944. In that context, it makes sense why both were sold as premium planes.

[Birdman]

I have the Yak-9s1, I've used it mainly in MP and it's a very forgiving plane imho: rolls well, turn well, climb is decent and goes decently fast as well.

 

The guns do a lot of damage but you don't have a lot of ammo, so need to be careful with that.

 

It's trim intensive so need to be mindful of that especially if dives are involved.

 

And gotta be careful with black outs (but not to the extent of a spit).

 

Overall, cool stuff.

 

I'll be getting the T version soon and see what this potato launcher is all about.

[Pict]

2 hours ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

Does anybody know the AP / He ratio in the 37mm mixed loadout gun belt?    It seems to me that it fires a few AP rounds first and then 1 HE but, I can't quite tell.  

It doesn't seem to me that the ammo belt for mixed loadout is staggered 1:1 between AP and HE.   

 

Anybody else notice that, or is it just me?  

 

I haven't use the mixed belting on the 37mm yet for air to air or air to ground, as it seems to me like taking my already small ammo count and cutting it in half.

 

I prefer to use HE on large cannons like the 37mm for air to air. You have mixed belting on the UBS 12.7mm machine gun anyway and it's no slouch at 850-900 rpm and would probably put more AP rounds into the target than the slow firing 37mm and if so, would most probably have a better chance of hitting something critical.

 

At least we have all these options, so it's a case of whatever floats your balloon till someone pulls the pin  

 

 

[Pict]

7 hours ago, 216th_Jordan said:

 

There is not 100% guarantee. Likelyness goes up, especialy for HE but with AP it is a different issue, surely an AP round of that energy class will deal a lot of damage to the parts in its way, but there are many variables for outcomes.

 

Apart of that it would be nice if the sim would model tumbling of projectiles, AFAIK it does not.

 

My comment was from what I've read of NII VVS testing at the time of Yak-9K development in early 1944.

 

Quote

Factory-testing between 3-5 January produced entirely predictable results and on the 12th, the Yak-9-45 prototype was passed to the NII VVS for State examinations. The institutes evaluations were thorough, and twice the machine was sent to NIPAV for firing trials with the NS-45. Predictably, the 45mm canon was awesome and could easily punch through 50mm of face-hardened armor plate at a 45 degree angle and 85mm of steel plate at 90 degrees from 500m.

Nudelman and Suranov had provided another fearsome incendiary/fragmentation round and NIPAV determined that any aircraft falling within a blast range of 10m from the point of destruction would be destroyed; the fate of an aircraft suffering a direct strike - even by a single round - was beyond question.

 

The testing on the NS-37mm canon of the Yak-9T almost exactly one year earlier in January 1943 was a similar story;

Quote

With little surprise, firing trials revealed that the NS-37 would be devastating - it was capable of penetrating 30mm of face-hardened armor plate at a 45 degree angle from 500m and 45mm of steel plate at 90 degrees. The NIPAV's supply of derelict air-frames was also placed into severe jeopardy by the Yak-9T, every one when fired upon by the NS-37 being completely destroyed; even twin engined bomber like the IL-4 would break up when struck by such a shell.

 

No need to stand next to a WW2 aircraft and ponder it's size in comparison to the relatively small rounds of ammunition that were designed, engineered and thoroughly tested to destroy such an aircraft. The information about all of that is readily available.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Pict

[Jaws2002]

15 hours ago, II./SG.1-MarkWilhelmsson said:

 

Well now, a person who finally understands external ballistics. 

 

It's funny how physics works.

 

I've fired a 45gr Varmint Grenade from an AR15 at a coyote and had it deflect enough off of a small twig of a bush to cause a miss. Had slow motion video of it but lost it long ago.

 

 

This isn't about external ballistics. From the moment the projectile hit the target we are talking about about terminal ballistics. 

 Your varmint grenade example, while real and very plausible, is an example of the projectile hitting something, well before it got to the target.

 But you are talking about a 45 grain bullet, specially designed, for fast yaw and fragmentation, to dump it's energy as soon as possible after it hit something.  That's how you get a 3000+feet per second bullet to tumble, and fragment in small game.

    That bullet has around three grams and it's designed to fragment. We are talking about a two pound hardened, cannon shell going 3000+ feet per second. 

 

The heavier the bullet is, the harder it is to move it from it's flight path.  This has been proven multiple times. The Russians did a lot of testing comparing their 5.45x39mm vs 7.62x39mm. They discovered, just like the US military in Vietnam, that a lot more of the, heavier, 7.62mm bullets were getting to the target after passing through thick brush, than the lighter 5.45mm or 5.56mm bullets.

 Now we are talking about a 760 grams cannon shell that's traveling at 880m/s.  300.000 Joules of energy. A lot of energy is required to deflect that chunk of steel out of it's way.

Any part  of the structure that can do that will have to absorb the same amount of energy.

 Then this long heavy projectile starts tumbling inside the plane tearing everything in it's path.

 

Edited May 22, 2020 by Jaws2002

[II./SG.1-MarkWilhelmsson]

6 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

 

 

This isn't about external ballistics. From the moment the projectile hit the target we are talking about about terminal ballistics. 

 Your varmint grenade example, while real and very plausible, is an example of the projectile hitting something, well before it got to the target.

 But you are talking about a 45 grain bullet, specially designed, for fast yaw and fragmentation, to dump it's energy as soon as possible after it hit something.  That's how you get a 3000+feet per second bullet to tumble, and fragment in small game.

    That bullet has around three grams and it's designed to fragment. We are talking about a two pound hardened, cannon shell going 3000+ feet per second. 

 

The heavier the bullet is, the harder it is to move it from it's flight path.  This has been proven multiple times. The Russians did a lot of testing comparing their 5.45x39mm vs 7.62x39mm. They discovered, just like the US military in Vietnam, that a lot more of the, heavier, 7.62mm bullets were getting to the target after passing through thick brush, than the lighter 5.45mm or 5.56mm bullets.

 Now we are talking about a 760 grams cannon shell that's traveling at 880m/s.  300.000 Joules of energy. A lot of energy is required to deflect that chunk of steel out of it's way.

Any part  of the structure that can do that will have to absorb the same amount of energy.

 Then this long heavy projectile starts tumbling inside the plane tearing everything in it's path.

 

 

 

The point of my illustration, as mentioned a little bit further down in the thread, is that almost nothing is impervious to some sort of deflection when it impacts an object. 

 

Also, an object would not be required to absorb the entirety of the projectiles KE to cause a deflection. If the projectile is still moving, then it still has KE, which means that it did not expend all of its energy on the target. This means that the object that caused the deflection did not have to absorb all of the projectile energy to deflect.

Edited May 22, 2020 by II./SG.1-MarkWilhelmsson

[Lusekofte]

4 hours ago, Pict said:

than the slow firing 37mm and if s

Nothing beat the black big puff’s of a 37 mm hitting a plane

[CanadaOne]

54 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Nothing beat the black big puff’s of a 37 mm hitting a plane

 

Except two big black puffs from two 37mm hitting a plane.

 

Viva la IL2-43!

[CUJO_1970]

I’m no yak driver, but I bought both of them because I like just about anything that flies and to further fund development. 
 

I like both of them, beautiful aircraft - I think the Yak-9T is the most interesting Russian aircraft in the sim for me.

[JG13_opcode]

48 minutes ago, CUJO_1970 said:

I’m no yak driver, but I bought both of them because I like just about anything that flies and to further fund development. 
 

I like both of them, beautiful aircraft - I think the Yak-9T is the most interesting Russian aircraft in the sim for me.

 

The Yak-9 (not the T) is no slouch either. I took it for a spin on the combat box dogfight server and manhandled some 109Ks with it.  I suck at aiming the ShVAK and UBS but the aircraft let me dominate the engagements from Co-E.

[Talon_]

8 hours ago, II./SG.1-MarkWilhelmsson said:

 

 

The point of my illustration, as mentioned a little bit further down in the thread, is that almost nothing is impervious to some sort of deflection when it impacts an object. 

 

Also, an object would not be required to absorb the entirety of the projectiles KE to cause a deflection. If the projectile is still moving, then it still has KE, which means that it did not expend all of its energy on the target. This means that the object that caused the deflection did not have to absorb all of the projectile energy to deflect.

 

Considering it wasn't deflected appreciably by a 30mm armour plate at 45 degrees, I'd posit that some duralumin aircraft skin is gonna cause minimal change in the shell's flight path.

[Blackhawk_FR]

I'm loving the Yak9T because of the cockpit moved a bit to the rear. It gives such a look. 

Even if the 37mm can be frustrating (the more I test it offline, the more I feel I often need more than one hit to kill a 109), it's not so hard to aim (good velocity of the munition). So it must be potent for air to air (more than P39). 

[II./SG.1-MarkWilhelmsson]

1 hour ago, Talon_ said:

 

Considering it wasn't deflected appreciably by a 30mm armour plate at 45 degrees, I'd posit that some duralumin aircraft skin is gonna cause minimal change in the shell's flight path.

 

I don't disagree with your statement. But I'm sure if hitting directly in the tail from dead 6 position it might be hitting more than just a single sheet of skin before it gets to the cockpit area. I would still expect it to likely hit the pilot though. Maybe what folks think is them firing in a perfectly straight line directly to the pilot isn't really that. If they are angled off or yawed  a tiny bit it could possibly give the illusion that they are going to hit the pilot area but actually not? I haven't tried it yet because I don't own the aircraft, just playing devil's advocate since everyone always seems to just immediately jump on the devs like they made a mistake when some potentially aren't considering other factors at play.

 

I know I've personally had dozens of instances where I swear I should have penetrated through to the cockpit with the 30mm AP on the duckling but no pilot injury happened. 

[Lusekofte]

Yak 9 has been my favorite qmb plane. 
with unlimited ammo of course 

I can see myself as a yak jockey after all

[Rhyn0]

On 5/20/2020 at 3:49 PM, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

Looks like multiplayer environment severely decreases the 37mm effectiveness sometimes, like this video from Krup shows

All of the planes shown in this video returned to base
 

 

 

 

It seems it's not only the Yak 9T 37mm HE that's affected, the 110's BK seems to suffer same fate online.

 

This was yesterday, 3x 3.7 HE hits on Yak9T (ironic) full 90 degree deflection on 2 shots, continued to fly and be controllable.

 

 

[E69_geramos109]

The net code isues on MP are well Known. 

[216th_Jordan]

13 hours ago, Pict said:

 

My comment was from what I've read of NII VVS testing at the time of Yak-9K development in early 1944.

 

 

The testing on the NS-37mm canon of the Yak-9T almost exactly one year earlier in January 1943 was a similar story;

 

No need to stand next to a WW2 aircraft and ponder it's size in comparison to the relatively small rounds of ammunition that were designed, engineered and thoroughly tested to destroy such an aircraft. The information about all of that is readily available.

 

No offense but even the words with which it is described suggest propaganda. 

I'm fine with hard data, not with accounts praising the incredible awesomeness of a weapon - they sound just blown up, no pun intended.

[Lusekofte]

I read some place that penetration And blast improved and fragmentation decrease in these cannon 

we will see one shot kills and we will see empty the ammo and no kill

[Zeev]

I somewhat disappointed by both variations of Yak9, by its performance and also by its aim. 
For comparison, the feel is totally different than trying other Soviet collector planes.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Zeev

[CountZero]

1 hour ago, Rhyn0 said:

 

 

It seems it's not only the Yak 9T 37mm HE that's affected, the 110's BK seems to suffer same fate online.

 

This was yesterday, 3x 3.7 HE hits on Yak9T (ironic) full 90 degree deflection on 2 shots, continued to fly and be controllable.

 

 

But its from MP, it could be anything ?

[Lusekofte]

59 minutes ago, Zeev said:

I somewhat disappointed by both variations of Yak9, by its performance and also by its aim. 
For comparison, the feel is totally different than trying other Soviet collector planes.

Are you having spikes on your stick?

I am confused, I find it a very good weapon platform. You need to try it one more time. 
are you using twist stick for rudder? Anything that make it a little different

[56RAF_Roblex]

15 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

 

I am confused, I find it a very good weapon platform. You need to try it one more time. 
are you using twist stick for rudder? Anything that make it a little different

 

I agree.  It is so stable that flying straight & level feels like having auto-level on but it is still maneuverable when you want it to be.  I think he must mean the 37mm cannon trajectory on the 9T is not the same as the 20mm on the earlier Yaks.  The Yak-9s1 guns though are identical to the Yak-1b.

[Danziger]

I had some more time to play around. I get better results with the 20mm and 12.7 in the Yak-9 than with the 37mm in the T. I have played with all the loadout options. Maybe I get more hits on target with the faster 20mm? The NS37 is no Mk108 that's for sure. Actually, I think I am going to get back into the LaGG and see if things are the same.

[Diggun]

10 minutes ago, Danziger said:

37mm in the T.

Strange, I find the T absolutely devastating, though I'm so poor a shot I try to hold my fire till I'm shoving 37mm up their tailpipe (oo err) from 100m or less... And be sure to take the 100%HE load out. 

 

I'm really enjoying both though, they seem a beautiful balance of turn-and-energy fighter. As someone who never could get on with the gunnery in the La5&FN, it's great to get my hands on a pair of Russian fighters capable of causing real problems for even the really late war Axis stuff. 

[ACG_PanzerVI]

I was enjoying the Yak9T right up until Krupinski shot me down twice last night with one!

Seriously though, I would like to see someone post some actual performance eval data.  The gun is sometimes one shot, sometimes two or three, and the flat trajectory means it flies on essentially the same sight line as the MGs, making it much easier to hit with than the low v guns in other platforms.  Underwhelming in ground attack, but that might just be my marksmanship.

[Lusekofte]

40 minutes ago, ACG_PanzerV said:

Underwhelming in ground attack, but that might just be my marksmanship.

If it cannot choose ap only  I think tanks will be problematic and I think if you hit a plane with ap it will be less dramatic than he

[Pict]

4 hours ago, 216th_Jordan said:

 

No offense but even the words with which it is described suggest propaganda. 

I'm fine with hard data, not with accounts praising the incredible awesomeness of a weapon - they sound just blown up, no pun intended.

 

Says the guy who's input to the debate was, "Have you ever stood beside a WWII plane? Its huge compared to 3.7cm. Certainly don't see a 90% chance, no offense intended."

 

If you like hard data so much, how about putting some on the table, instead of that hollow stuff above? 

 

================

 

The stuff I posted is translated from the LII VVS, it was the Soviet military aviation testing institution and it also goes well with the video clip I posted earlier of the very same tests.

 

Lest we forget, these people at LII VVS were testing on behalf of the government. They had nothing to gain from lying about any test subject results in any way, to either enhance or otherwise. They had everything to lose on the other hand if they were found out to be lying.

 

1 hour ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

If it cannot choose ap only  I think tanks will be problematic and I think if you hit a plane with ap it will be less dramatic than he

 

The Yak-9T has options for mixed AP/HE, AP only & HE only for the NS-37 canon. And from what I've already done with it, you are spot on correct in your assumption.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Pict

[=621=Samikatz]

47 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

If it cannot choose ap only  I think tanks will be problematic

 

If you come in low and pop off two shots at a PzIV's rear it burns up near every time, it's actually great at it

[Pict]

17 minutes ago, =621=Samikatz said:

 

If you come in low and pop off two shots at a PzIV's rear it burns up near every time, it's actually great at it

 

Is that with HE?

 

I ask, as the HE was an incendiary/fragmentation round and it's ability to regularly flame aircraft in the sim is representative of the real thing I reckon.

 

Edited May 22, 2020 by Pict

[=621=Samikatz]

2 minutes ago, Pict said:

 

Is that with HE?

 

 

Only tried with AP and mixed, with mixed I assume it's the AP doing the legwork

 

I have managed to shoot down planes with AP, though. Killed a 109's engine with a single round, earlier

[Bremspropeller]

There needs to be a Yak-9T skin called HE-Man.

[MattS]

9 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

There needs to be a Yak-9T skin called HE-Man.

 

Or "HE, man" ?

[Danziger]

I have flown the LaGG with SH37 and it is no different (which is correct as the only difference was the amount of ammo and the slightly slower firing gun). However, I seem to have a lot more success against B25s and Ju88s than He111s for some reason the 111s seem to soak up more hits. I was able to one shot kill a couple of Ju88s and one shot explode a couple of B25s. 

[Pict]

42 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

There needs to be a Yak-9T skin called HE-Man.

 

There also needs to be a Luftwaffe skin called Home-work...

 

as in, a Yak-9T ate my home-work.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

7 hours ago, Rhyn0 said:

 

 

It seems it's not only the Yak 9T 37mm HE that's affected, the 110's BK seems to suffer same fate online.

 

This was yesterday, 3x 3.7 HE hits on Yak9T (ironic) full 90 degree deflection on 2 shots, continued to fly and be controllable.

 

Yeah, it seems for cannons the ones with lower rates of fire are more affected, heard some stuff about the MK 103 being funky sometimes not as effective as the 108 when they should be the same.