FXAA/MSAA in VR compared

[Talon_]

No AA, FXAA and MSAA compared in VR.

 

Note on the final pic (the first test I did) that there is no difference in FXAA image quality when moving the slider from 2 to 4. Best place to look on that one is the railings near the tail.

 

For better viewing, right click > open in new window then use your browser zoom to enlarge.

 

2000m Stalingrad Winter, Me262 left Bf109G-14 right

 

 

7000m Rhineland Summer, Fw190D-9 left, Bf109K-4 right

 

 

[=420=Syphen]

Nice comparisons @Talon_   4x MSAA certainly looks much better if people have the horsepower in their rigs to run it. 

[SCG_Wulfe]

Hmm, 

 

I guess another question is whether we are better off lowering supersampling and running 4x MSAA or whether no AA but higher SS is better for performance/graphics. 

 

 

[Alonzo]

I suspect that best spotting is going to be 4x MSAA in-game and zero (or rather 1.0) supersample for the headset, and that best graphics is going to be 4x FXAA in-game and then as much supersample for the headset that your GPU can handle. (Actually best graphics is going to be 4x MSAA in-game plus supersample, but we're not all running 2080ti K!ngP1n cards...)

 

I'll be interested to see how Fenris' usual testing goes, and maybe Chili will organize some more benchmarking. Someone said their old track files were broken but I haven't confirmed that.

[YoYo]

Someone tested FPS?

What is better now? To have FXAAx2 or MSAAx2?

 

I feel that better performance has FXAA than MSAA. Not a big difference in picture.

Edited May 20, 2020 by YoYo

[SCG_Wulfe]

29 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

I suspect that best spotting is going to be 4x MSAA in-game and zero (or rather 1.0) supersample for the headset, and that best graphics is going to be 4x FXAA in-game and then as much supersample for the headset that your GPU can handle. (Actually best graphics is going to be 4x MSAA in-game plus supersample, but we're not all running 2080ti K!ngP1n cards...)

 

I'll be interested to see how Fenris' usual testing goes, and maybe Chili will organize some more benchmarking. Someone said their old track files were broken but I haven't confirmed that.

 

I think you may be right. 

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

Fxaa has better performance but jaggy image, msaa has better image performance hit...

[Talon_]

More comparisons:

 

2.0, 1.1 and 1.0 SS + FXAA

 

2.0, 1.1 and 1.0 SS + MSAA

 

 

Both AA modes combined

 

 

Noticeably the pixels on the inner cockpit are *identical* in FXAA at 2.0 and 1.1 SS. Supersampling was confirmed by OTT HUD each time.

[SCG_Wulfe]

6 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

More comparisons:

 

2.0, 1.1 and 1.0 SS + FXAA

 

2.0, 1.1 and 1.0 SS + MSAA

 

 

Both AA modes combined

 

 

Noticeably the pixels on the inner cockpit are *identical* in FXAA at 2.0 and 1.1 SS. Supersampling was confirmed by OTT HUD each time.

 

Thank you!

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

I’ve settled for 2xMsaa and turned my steamvr to %130 ss 
frames are at least 75-80 in qmb, 16 fighters, Rhineland map over Eindhoven..

distant landscape gets a bit jaggy but I can Id what plane is coming at me from a distance now

[SCG_Wulfe]

 

50 minutes ago, [APAF]spartan85 said:

I’ve settled for 2xMsaa and turned my steamvr to %130 ss 
frames are at least 75-80 in qmb, 16 fighters, Rhineland map over Eindhoven..

distant landscape gets a bit jaggy but I can Id what plane is coming at me from a distance now

 

Thanks, 

I have a very similar setup other than the graphics card (I only have a 1080) I will have to give this a try. 

[von_Tom]

In VR (Index) I notice a big difference between 0, 2x and 4x AA.  For me the best overall result is 4xFXAA - MSAA drops fps too much.

 

von Tom

[blitze]

1 hour ago, [APAF]spartan85 said:

I’ve settled for 2xMsaa and turned my steamvr to %130 ss 
frames are at least 75-80 in qmb, 16 fighters, Rhineland map over Eindhoven..

distant landscape gets a bit jaggy but I can Id what plane is coming at me from a distance now

Could people please tell us their SteamVR - Video - App Render Target Resolution. 

That and their Hardware.

 

SteamVR 130% tells us nothing.

 

Greatly appreciated.

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by blitze
Need more juice

[Talon_]

4 minutes ago, blitze said:

SteamVR

 

SteamVR doesn't perform as well as OpenComposite so you'll likely not get many respondents.

[blitze]

You refuse to give any information pertaining to the render resolution and device you are using for your results. How are we to help you or work it out?

 

Aren't only Oculus users ones who can use Open Composite?  You should still be able to give out the SS render target info from that. 

 

But, hey, no problem my end, just had a wonderful furball over Kuban in my Spit with no issues spotting and identifying targets.  Would hope for you guys to have the same.

Love the way the new lighting shows up the curve of the Spits wing.

[Alonzo]

4 minutes ago, blitze said:

You refuse to give any information pertaining to the render resolution and device you are using for your results. How are we to help you or work it out?

 

Aren't only Oculus users ones who can use Open Composite?  You should still be able to give out the SS render target info from that.

 

I don't think Oculus users with OpenComposite actually know their render target, we're not being deliberately obtuse.

 

Can we calculate render target from "Rift S, 1.1 pixel density, OpenComposite" ? That's what people in the Oculus ecosystem will be able to tell you easily.

[Talon_]

8 minutes ago, blitze said:

You refuse to give any information pertaining to the render resolution and device you are using for your results. How are we to help you or work it out?

 

 

I don't need your help, this thread is for information for others. I'm one of the better VR spotters in the MP community and I am very happy with my settings thank you ? 

[Creep]

I too would like configuration information since the latest patch for SteamVR. I have an HP Reverb Pro and to my knowledge, OpenComposite is not an option for me.

[Guest deleted@134347]

i'm running ~2,300x~2,500 per SteamVR in VivePro..

 

MSAA and AA=2 seems to be OK. Had to turn off the canopy reflections, they add quite a serious performance hit and quite distracting in general.

 

In the sunlight the look of the ball indicator/leveler looks awesome, like a pure glass ...

[Wolfred]

CPU intel 9900 overclocked to 5 ghz, nvidia 2080 super, hp reverb pro, steam vr overall settings plus 150%, il2 stettings in steam VR minus 84%.

Very very good update, best sim for me "the only one maybe"

But i have to use 60hz refreshrate on my reverb, its super smooth but distorted, cause the left screen is bigger than right screen, newest win 10 update, wmr update, and steam vr update, holographic drivers, no mods no betas.

DCS on 60hz settings, both screen the is the same and is not distorted.

Thx for to il2 crew for outstanding patch, and hard work with flying circus to.

[E69_Qpassa_VR]

So, the best is to use FXAA and set antialiasing = 0 ? Thanks

[YoYo]

2 minutes ago, E69_Qpassa_VR said:

So, the best is to use FXAA and set antialiasing = 0 ? Thanks

Where do you want to set up antialiasing to 0?

[Talon_]

6 minutes ago, E69_Qpassa_VR said:

So, the best is to use FXAA and set antialiasing = 0 ? Thanks

 

The best visually appears to be MSAA to 4. FXAA does very little in VR.

[E69_Qpassa_VR]

2 minutes ago, YoYo said:

Where do you want to set up antialiasing to 0?

[YoYo]

Yes but if you set up here as 0 FXAA or MSAA doesnt work. So here was my question.

You can take kind of antialiasing and next set up 2 OR 4, not 0. Zero turn off any kind of antialiasing.

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by YoYo

[VA_Gearhead]

Can someone with a Rift CV1 give me a hand with the latest patch? I need an order of steps to take thats up-to-date for getting good frames. Should I start with settings at high and everything on except for AA and use SS until I'm happy and then try AA? 

 

I'm just confused as to what order to do things to get reasonable frames at good FPS. I have an I7 @4.4 ghz and a 2070Super. What are acceptable frame rates like? How much jaggies am I always going to see?

 

Googling this stuff has answers from 2017 on and its so hard to get a good idea of what I should reasonably be able to achieve.

 

Thanks

[E69_Qpassa_VR]

41 minutes ago, YoYo said:

Yes but if you set up here as 0 FXAA or MSAA doesnt work. So here was my question.

You can take kind of antialiasing and next set up 2 OR 4, not 0. Zero turn off any kind of antialiasing.

 

Ahh ok ok, thanks

33 minutes ago, GearheadXII-A said:

Can someone with a Rift CV1 give me a hand with the latest patch? I need an order of steps to take thats up-to-date for getting good frames. Should I start with settings at high and everything on except for AA and use SS until I'm happy and then try AA? 

 

I'm just confused as to what order to do things to get reasonable frames at good FPS. I have an I7 @4.4 ghz and a 2070Super. What are acceptable frame rates like? How much jaggies am I always going to see?

 

Googling this stuff has answers from 2017 on and its so hard to get a good idea of what I should reasonably be able to achieve.

 

Thanks

Are you using open composite,  it is said it gives way more fps than SteamVR 

[VA_Gearhead]

5 minutes ago, E69_Qpassa_VR said:

Ahh ok ok, thanks

Are you using open composite,  it is said it gives way more fps than SteamVR 

No, I don't even know what that is but I can look into it.

[blitze]

2 hours ago, Talon_ said:

 

I don't need your help, this thread is for information for others. I'm one of the better VR spotters in the MP community and I am very happy with my settings thank you ? 

 

You're welcome -just find it weird people bitching they can't Id at 500m in VR and need 5x + Zoom in a mod to give them 500% enlargement over real life for identifying aircraft.?

 

Maybe they have poor configurations or they might want to visit an optometrist.

 

Good to hear though you haven't this issue and are quite formidable with Il2 Multiplayer in it's standard guise. ?

2 hours ago, Talon_ said:

 

I don't need your help, this thread is for information for others. I'm one of the better VR spotters in the MP community and I am very happy with my settings thank you ? 

 

You're welcome -just find it weird people bitching they can't Id at 500m in VR and need 5x + Zoom in a mod to give them 500% enlargement over real life for identifying aircraft.?

 

Maybe they have poor configurations or they might want to visit an optometrist.

 

Good to hear though you haven't this issue and are quite formidable with Il2 Multiplayer in it's standard guise. ?

 

Had to repeat it twice to keep up with ya.

[VA_Gearhead]

14 minutes ago, blitze said:

Good to hear though you haven't this issue and are quite formidable with Il2 Multiplayer in it's standard guise. ?

 

 

I'll take your help!

[blitze]

1 hour ago, GearheadXII-A said:

I'll take your help!

 

I'm stabbing in the dark with the Rift as I don't own one but if you are using SteamVR - well more recent updates have made it considerably better so not to worry too much there.

 

I would probably start with Oculus Rift setting at 1, SteamVR Video at 100% and High or Ultra settings in Il2 Graphics.  See how that works.

 

If slow, try SteamVR Video at 50% and add some FXAA at x2 and see if that helps.

 

If fast - bump SteamVR Video to 200% and see how that works but with no AA.

 

You have a native res of 1080 x 1200 per eye res.  See if you can dial that in with SteamVR and how it looks with colour depth, contrast and clarity for you.  If a little jaggy, try AA.

 

With current headsets there will always a little jagginess and it is compromise between decent resolution and FPS.  For spotting you want more vibrant colours and contrast than a smooth / blurry image.

 

Alaising might be a thing of the past when we have 8K per eye or more VR headsets.

 

Hope that helps.

 

@Talon_ apologies for the rant - I know this title is very VR friendly and hearing some of the dummy spits people have been posting sort of pissed me off especially given how much of an improvement, again, the dev's have delivered to this sim but this time in the Graphics department across the board.  Reflections, planes, environment/terrain and ground objects - all improved.

 

 

[VR-DriftaholiC]

I tested a bit on stream. First was FXAA 2X then no AA then MSAA 2X. Then flew a basic escort mission to test some more.

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by driftaholic

[kuk111]

Just got done flying a P-38 campaign mission and Loving the game on Rifts S and 4x MSAA no SS.  Smooth and looks great!  Well done DEVs

[DD_Arthur]

3 hours ago, GearheadXII-A said:

Can someone with a Rift CV1 give me a hand with the latest patch?

 

I'm just confused as to what order to do things to get reasonable frames at good FPS. I have an I7 @4.4 ghz and a 2070Super. What are acceptable frame rates like? How much jaggies am I always going to see?

 

Hi Gearhead.  We have very similar systems and I use a Rift CV1.  I get very, very good performance indeed with this new patch and I'm very, very happy with GBS.  These are my ingame settings;

 

I get a very smooth performance with no ghosting, hiccups, etc. and spotting and general performance are very good indeed.  There are other things that can be done too but this is the place to start.

 

Lastly - but very importantly - I don't use Steam VR at all.  I use something called OpenComposite which is for Occulus use only. Therefore it has no need support every other VR headset out there like Steam VR has to.  It's all a lot less demanding on the system when your run it.

 

It's very simple to set up and you can leave the default settings as they are.  Run it before you start your Rift and make sure you have selected OpenComposite.  Then close it and launch your Rift and then IL2. Simples.

 

 

[VA_Gearhead]

24 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

Hi Gearhead.  We have very similar systems and I use a Rift CV1.  I get very, very good performance indeed with this new patch and I'm very, very happy with GBS.  These are my ingame settings;

 

I get a very smooth performance with no ghosting, hiccups, etc. and spotting and general performance are very good indeed.  There are other things that can be done too but this is the place to start.

 

Lastly - but very importantly - I don't use Steam VR at all.  I use something called OpenComposite which is for Occulus use only. Therefore it has no need support every other VR headset out there like Steam VR has to.  It's all a lot less demanding on the system when your run it.

 

It's very simple to set up and you can leave the default settings as they are.  Run it before you start your Rift and make sure you have selected OpenComposite.  Then close it and launch your Rift and then IL2. Simples.

 

 

Thanks! I'll start there. Do you have any super sampling in the oculus tray tool or just the in-game MSAA? Appreciate you're in depth help!

 

 

1 hour ago, blitze said:

 

I'm stabbing in the dark with the Rift as I don't own one but if you are using SteamVR - well more recent updates have made it considerably better so not to worry too much there.

 

I would probably start with Oculus Rift setting at 1, SteamVR Video at 100% and High or Ultra settings in Il2 Graphics.  See how that works.

 

If slow, try SteamVR Video at 50% and add some FXAA at x2 and see if that helps.

 

If fast - bump SteamVR Video to 200% and see how that works but with no AA.

 

You have a native res of 1080 x 1200 per eye res.  See if you can dial that in with SteamVR and how it looks with colour depth, contrast and clarity for you.  If a little jaggy, try AA.

 

With current headsets there will always a little jagginess and it is compromise between decent resolution and FPS.  For spotting you want more vibrant colours and contrast than a smooth / blurry image.

 

Alaising might be a thing of the past when we have 8K per eye or more VR headsets.

 

Hope that helps.

 

@Talon_

 

That sure does help! I guess I just never know how much jagginess is normal. I'll try what you said and what someone else above suggested and see what I can get! Cheers!

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

7 hours ago, blitze said:

You refuse to give any information pertaining to the render resolution and device you are using for your results. How are we to help you or work it out?

 

Aren't only Oculus users ones who can use Open Composite?  You should still be able to give out the SS render target info from that. 

 

But, hey, no problem my end, just had a wonderful furball over Kuban in my Spit with no issues spotting and identifying targets.  Would hope for you guys to have the same.

Love the way the new lighting shows up the curve of the Spits wing.

Hey, little late to respond sorry,

I don’t touch render target, have no idea what that does...

I have my steamVR set do default 1440 per eye,

then video setting per program slider is bumped up to %130 supersampling so I get 1872... it’s enough to smooth things out and not kill my frames

 

My odessey+ is great but really considering upgrading to something with a  native resolution closer to the quality I like..

But I can’t decide if I should up my gpu as I see to be getting all I can out of my 2070

[DD_Arthur]

2 hours ago, GearheadXII-A said:

Thanks! I'll start there. Do you have any super sampling in the oculus tray tool or just the in-game MSAA? Appreciate you're in depth help!

 

That sure does help! I guess I just never know how much jagginess is normal. 

 

When I use Occulus Tray Tool I've got it on 1.2 but since this latest patch I haven't used it so it's at OpenComposites default setting of 1.

Using MSAA x 2 seems fine at the moment.

[VA_Gearhead]

1 hour ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

When I use Occulus Tray Tool I've got it on 1.2 but since this latest patch I haven't used it so it's at OpenComposites default setting of 1.

Using MSAA x 2 seems fine at the moment.

Interesting. I just grabbed the standalone version for a clean install and OpenComposite so I'll try 1.0ss first. Thanks

[SCG_Wulfe]

Well, 

 

Tried a bunch of combos last night. MSAA x4 with some super-sampling looks phenomenal. Unfortunately my GTX 1080 doesn't have the horsepower to run this with a half decent framerate. 

 

The second best that I found is still no AA and higher super sampling. 

 

Time to start a piggy bank for a new graphics card. 

[Bernard_IV]

On my Reverb with native resolution using Sketch's spotting mission I seem to have the best spotting with no AA.  MSAA spotting is pretty good but crushes my frames.  FX spotting is a bit worse but it does not crush my frames.  The cockpit reflections are annoying so I turned them off.  My performance has improved so I turned my draw distance to 150km which is nice.  The new update doesn't like my 5.1ghz overclock so I backed down to 5.0ghz which hurts my overclocking pride.  The landscape looks great and the performance is nice.  I get some strange ground reflections or pixelation but it isn't bad.  I think I'd need a 3080ti to run MSAA with this headset.  I have 7700k and 1080ti.  I might try to lower or raise my resolution to see how that affects spotting later.