Developer Diary 251 - Discussion

[Sketch]

6 minutes ago, SYN_Mike77 said:

Good Lord I hope not!  Everyone flying around at 100%  throttle with out a care in the world.  

Great! I would hope not too... However, this means the team needs to come up with a better solution to engine management than a ticking time bomb. 

[SJ_Butcher]

11 minutes ago, JG_deserteagle540 said:

Great update.

 

The deferred rendering looks awesome!

 

Good news to have an alternative anti-aliasing (FXAA) available soon.

 

Which AA is now at the moment installed?  TXAA, TAA, SMAA, MSAA, SSAA ?

 

Is temporal anti- aliasing the way to go in the future?

 

I remember to read something time ago that it was MSAA 2x or 4x

 

https://thegamingsetup.com/guides/what-is-anti-aliasing

 

Acording to that guide SMAA T2X should be the best right now in terms of performance and image quality

[RedKestrel]

20 minutes ago, Count_de_Money said:

 

the only ones IMHO that are somewhat difficult to figure out (at least for me) are the yaks. They have the wheels for the oil and water rads without any discerning markings, except for counting the turns, i.e. full turn = ~20%. The rest of the plane set has it much easier...

This is me too. I have tech tips turned off now with the new plane set as it is usually pretty easy to tell what your radiator settings are, and I haven't flown the yaks consistently for a while.

 

Just now, Sketch said:

Great! I would hope not too... However, this means the team needs to come up with a better solution to engine management than a ticking time bomb. 

It is not 100% clear, but I think that they mean that it will be a server-side difficulty setting, so that everyone in a given session has the same information. Not that there will be no technochat allowed whatsoever. 

I think most servers would leave tech chat on anyway, given the choice. 

[JG4_dingsda]

5 minutes ago, Sketch said:

However, this means the team needs to come up with a better solution to engine management than a ticking time bomb. 

I usually handle this by looking at the watch in the cockpit.

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by JG4_dingsda

[SCG_Wulfe]

Really

1 minute ago, RedKestrel said:

This is me too. I have tech tips turned off now with the new plane set as it is usually pretty easy to tell what your radiator settings are, and I haven't flown the yaks consistently for a while.

 

It is not 100% clear, but I think that they mean that it will be a server-side difficulty setting, so that everyone in a given session has the same information. Not that there will be no technochat allowed whatsoever. 

I think most servers would leave tech chat on anyway, given the choice. 

 

Really I think the best solution might have been to break out a few different version of techchat. 

 

One of which may have still indicated combat/emergency/boost power only. 

[CountZero]

3 minutes ago, JG4_dingsda said:

I usually handle this by looking at the watch in the cockpit.

 

I guess you dont play with american airplanes so i wil not ask how mutch P-47 emergancy mode lasts on 100ft cmpared to 10000ft, so ill ask how long thas it take to recover 30s of emergancy mode on 109g4 ? 

[smink1701]

Nice update

Semper Fi!

[CountZero]

3 minutes ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

Really

 

Really I think the best solution might have been to break out a few different version of techchat. 

 

One of which may have still indicated combat/emergency/boost power only. 

nah thouse flying without tech chat would not like that, full ON or full off is way to go, easyer for servers will adapt. Why would expert guys need any tech chat messages in this game ? 

[FTC_DerSheriff]

6 minutes ago, JG4_dingsda said:

I usually handle this by looking at the watch in the cockpit.

 

Yeah only really works cleanly with the german planes. Since the US planes E-Power eats very aggressively into the combat power timer. When you use the 2 minutes of the P-39 completely, you have no time remaining in the combat power setting as well. You need 2x the time to get it all back. The timers are all over the place and a clock alone wont help you really.

[WheelwrightPL]

30 minutes ago, Count_de_Money said:

 

the only ones IMHO that are somewhat difficult to figure out (at least for me) are the yaks. They have the wheels for the oil and water rads without any discerning markings, except for counting the turns, i.e. full turn = ~20%. The rest of the plane set has it much easier...

 

In my opinion it is Yaks that have it much easier because you simply look at your oil and water temperature gauges, and based on that turn the radiators wheels.

So no engine timers, just a feedback loop, which I personally prefer to counting seconds in emergency engine mode, with the engine irreversible damaged if I miscouted.

On the other hand those Yaks are quite forgiving if you overcook oil or water, because you have minutes to open-up radiators more which makes the engine run like nothing happened.

[sevenless]

Very nice. Can´t wait for the patch.

[RedKestrel]

6 minutes ago, DerSheriff said:

Yeah only really works cleanly with the german planes. Since the US planes E-Power eats very aggressively into the combat power timer. When you use the 2 minutes of the P-39 completely, you have no time remaining in the combat power setting as well. You need 2x the time to get it all back. The timers are all over the place and a clock alone wont help you really.

As far as I can tell there is really no 'official' documentation of how the engine timers and 'recharge' really works at all either.

My understanding is that WEP eats into Combat, so you can Fly 15 minute of Combat, or 5 minutes of WEP and 10 MInutes of Combat, etc. But you cannot fly 5 minutes of WEP and 15 minutes of Combat. But I have only gleaned this from other's comments like yours on the forum. Without this there is no way to know... 

Edited May 15, 2020 by RedKestrel

[Blitzen]

I finally have the settings working at the top of Pimax5K''s VR capabilities for my PC ( except for say FPS & the usual FPS rate,) and just in time for this new visual candy.Now if I could only weld everything in place before the new update with the possibilities of taking everything back to default's blur...

[JG4_dingsda]

5 minutes ago, CountZero said:

I guess you dont play with american airplanes so i wil not ask how mutch P-47 emergancy mode lasts on 100ft cmpared to 10000ft, so ill ask how long thas it take to recover 30s of emergancy mode on 109g4 ? 

 

2 minutes ago, DerSheriff said:

Yeah only really works cleanly with the german planes. Since the US planes E-Power eats very aggressively into the combat power timer. When you use the 2 minutes of the P-39 completely, you have no time remaining in the combat power setting as well. You need 2x the time to get it all back. The timers are all over the place and a clock alone wont help you really.

 

I tell you what I like about flying without technochat:

• Being more experienced in a plane shows. You really got to learn it.
• No more Min-Maxing. More of a conservative appoach. See above.
• A nicely layed out instrument panel actually means something.

What I like when others fly without technochat:

"Question: Power Settings?"

"75 - 75"

"grrrrr"

 

Other than that: "Ein jeder nach seiner Façon..."

[WheelwrightPL]

4 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

As far as I can tell there is really no 'official' documentation of how the engine timers and 'recharge' really works at all either.

My understanding is that WEP eats into Combat, so you can Fly 15 minute of Combat, or 5 minutes of WEP and 10 MInutes of Combat, etc. But you cannot fly 5 minutes of WEP and 15 minutes of Combat. But I have only gleaned this from other's comments like yours on the forum. Without this there is no way to know... 

 

I would prefer engine to give some warning when it is about to blow-up: a change in sound and/or shaking would be fine. And of course the temperature and pressure gauges should give that warning as well, if they did so historically.

[SCG_Wulfe]

15 minutes ago, CountZero said:

nah thouse flying without tech chat would not like that, full ON or full off is way to go, easyer for servers will adapt. Why would expert guys need any tech chat messages in this game ? 

 

Because its pretty darn hard to know what power mode you are in, even if you generally know the settings for each. Often you are near the edge of power and blipping into the next highest mode. 

 

But I can see the argument for removal and the argument to what I just stated is:  just don't fly that close to the upper limit of your power mode. Be conservative. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by SCG_Wulfe

[Pict]

Quote

Another option that has been requested for a while - now tech chat messages are a difficulty option so the players will be on equal terms in multiplayer.

 

[Jackrabbit710]

27 minutes ago, SJ_Butcher said:

 

I remember to read something time ago that it was MSAA 2x or 4x

 

https://thegamingsetup.com/guides/what-is-anti-aliasing

 

Acording to that guide SMAA T2X should be the best right now in terms of performance and image quality

I’m hoping MSAA hasn’t been totally removed as all post processing AA methods look too blurry in VR

[SJ_Butcher]

Just now, Jackrabbit710 said:

I’m hoping MSAA hasn’t been totally removed as all post processing AA methods look too blurry in VR

It has been added fxaa not removed anything according to the post.

[Jaws2002]

The P-38 screenshots show very well that excessive reflection effect on the wing is gone in the new version. That's a very welcome improvement.

 The clouds reflection into the water is very nice. It reminds me of that amazing early CLOD lighting engine.

[danielprates]

So it seems the mosquito will look even nicer when it finally comes out! And speaking of the mosquito ....

 

1 minute ago, Jaws2002 said:

 excessive reflection effect on the wing is gone

 

I always felt that the P38 and P47 on metal finishing looked kinda weird. Like they had been dipped in bodybuilder-grade oil and then brought under the sun.

Edited May 15, 2020 by danielprates

[Jaws2002]

8 minutes ago, danielprates said:

I always felt that the P38 and P47 on metal finishing looked kinda weird. Like they had been dipped in bodybuilder-grade oil and then brought under the sun.

 

 All planes have this issues. It was carried over from ROF. Even in ROF the skins had a sort of "wet' effect when seen from certain angles. 

Glad to see it gone.

[RedKestrel]

12 minutes ago, danielprates said:

 

 

 

I always felt that the P38 and P47 on metal finishing looked kinda weird. Like they had been dipped in bodybuilder-grade oil and then brought under the sun.

Oiling your Jugs before you go out in the sun doesn't provide enough protection, you need at least SPF 50 sunscreen to be safe.
 

[BlitzPig_EL]

Interesting, I never knew using, or not, the techchat was an issue.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

I hope there will be a setting to remove the warnings like overheat, engine damaged, but keep the percentages or visualize it like a bar that gets more or less filled up. There are planes that don't have visual indicator of their radiators for example and IRL the pilot can tell by feeling of operating the controls specially these wheels.

Another thing is some planes have optimal minimum drag position, like the Yak-7B, P-39, P-47 and the upcoming Yak-9s if you go by temperature alone you might end up closing them too much and having a performance penalty when the pilot would know more or less where is this neutral position with it's muscle memory feedback on operating the wheel. Having to stare at the wheel counting revolutions one at a time would be very clunky and a clear case of "harder doesn't equal realistic".

[dburne]

Nice DD, new rendering looks quite nice!!

[Ribbon]

Music to my ears, really nice update it will be!

Improving visibility and maybe performance, new water reflections?

2 hours ago, =gRiJ=Roman- said:

Awesome! Some work on the ship for BON ..... interesting ? 

I see torpedos and mines in my crystal ball!

Torpedos would be enough?

[Pict]

1 hour ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

I always wondered about that. Is it really anything else than diverting people to believe throttle rad and pitch is % 

I have never believed it was a advantage, more a disadvantage 

 

The advantage and disadvantages of the technochat are mostly about situational awareness. This won't affect a bomber or transport pilot much, but for fighter jockeys in a furball it can make all the difference. Keeping an eye on your opponent is essential, but engine management in a dogfight is equally important, so if you can do both at the same time, you have the advantage.

 

The technochat is a HUD that gives information about engine settings and more. So the pilot using it can manage the engine and maintain situational awareness all through the flight or fight.

 

Without it the pilot needs to read the cockpit gauges to know just how hard the engine is being pushed, so he is immediately at a disadvantage to an opponent using the HUD.

 

If you want a good example of this, have a look at some YouTuber IL2 BOX fighter pilots self promo videos, especially the 5 kills or more in a flight types. You will notice that they rarely look at the instruments in the cockpit, but mange to fly the fighter to the max without destroying their engine.

 

That's about to change as full switch servers will now be HUD free for everyone and the big aces will either have to adapt or fly on servers that will cater to their requirements for a HUD.

 

It's big step towards a more realistic experience on full switch servers  

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Pict

[CountZero]

5 minutes ago, Pict said:

 

The advantage and disadvantages of the technochat are mostly about situational awareness. This won't affect a bomber or transport pilot much, but for fighter jockeys in a furball it can make all the difference. Keeping an eye on your opponent is essential, but engine management in a dogfight is equally important, so if you can do both at the same time, you have the advantage.

 

The technochat is a HUD that gives information about engine settings and more. So the pilot using it can manage the engine and maintain situational awareness all through the flight or fight.

 

Without it the pilot needs to read the cockpit gauges to know just how hard the engine is being pushed, so he is immediately at a disadvantage to an opponent using the HUD.

 

 

And now finaly they will have ability to play exlusivly vs players who have tech chat off on their servers, and us few will not be taking advantage of them and will play on other servers without HUD off experts, hopfully with 100% working tech chats also ( see no reason why that would be imposible and so hard to do), unlike now where 100% is only posible when also Instrument panel realisam option is ON. All happy.

[Livai]

Now where is the improvement when here are compared "2k skin old reflected" with "4k skin new reflected" using a different skin with different colors =  apples pear comparison

BTW - The new waxing effect on the P-38J is so uncool.

[Jade_Monkey]

Really like what is coming up. 

 

Excellent job with the 4K skin upgrade, in particular I love all the additional stencils on the He111, but they all look great!

[Pict]

7 minutes ago, CountZero said:

And now finaly they will have ability to play exlusivly vs players who have tech chat off on their servers, and us few will not be taking advantage of them and will play on other servers without HUD off experts, hopfully with 100% working tech chats also ( see no reason why that would be imposible and so hard to do), unlike now where 100% is only posible when also Instrument panel realisam option is ON. All happy.

 

Yes, that ability will now be there if a server admin wants to use it. I know that the TAW guys wanted it, so we can expect it be available there.

 

I'm happy, as I like to fly using the gauges, but up until now you were never on a level playing field.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Pict

[LLv24_Zami]

1 hour ago, Jackrabbit710 said:

I’m hoping MSAA hasn’t been totally removed as all post processing AA methods look too blurry in VR

FXAA is just an option, you can select either way.

Edited May 15, 2020 by LLv24_Zami

[CountZero]

3 minutes ago, Pict said:

 

Yes, that ability will now be there if a server admin wants to use it. I know that the TAW guys wanted it, so we can expect it be available there.

 

I'm happy, as I like to fly using the gauges, but up until now you were never on a level playing field.

Yes TAW is more hardcore i expect also it will use it to turn off tech chat. Berloga and WoL i hope will have it ON, and then i hope all techchat mesages is visable then when i play on WoL or Berloga = me happy also

[HBB*Hunger]

Love the news! Thanks!

[kendo]

8 minutes ago, Livai said:

Now where is the improvement when here are compared "2k skin old reflected" with "4k skin new reflected" using a different skin with different colors =  apples pear comparison

BTW - The new waxing effect on the P-38J is so uncool.

 

? I would expect nothing less from you.

 

Livai commenting on his recent Euromillions Lottery win:

 

"It was Rubbish!! Only 14 million euros instead of the 20 million I expected. And they say it will be a week before the money is in my account. This is appalling service!!"

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

sorry for off-topic feel free to delete Mods

[Stoopy]

Fantastic DD!!

 

1. Looking forward to YAKness!

2. Am this same update to be having new glass reflectionals in cockpit vis a vis canopy and gauges per what Jason's last video thingy showed????  

3. I have been migrating towards getting less and less reliant on technochat and was considering shutting it off, so the change to make it a server setting comas at a good time (for me!). 

 

[Lusekofte]

51 minutes ago, Pict said:

That's about to change as full switch servers will now be HUD free for everyone and the big aces will either have to adapt or fly on servers that will cater to their requirements for a HUD.

Ok I admit that sound good

[RedKestrel]

26 minutes ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

Fantastic DD!!

 

1. Looking forward to YAKness!

2. Am this same update to be having new glass reflectionals in cockpit vis a vis canopy and gauges per what Jason's last video thingy showed????  

3. I have been migrating towards getting less and less reliant on technochat and was considering shutting it off, so the change to make it a server setting comas at a good time (for me!). 

 

Yeah the deferred rendering tech seen here is the same tech that allows them to do the improved cockpit reflections.

[Ala13_UnopaUno_VR]

Hace 1 hora, - = PHX = -SuperEtendard dijo:

Espero que haya una configuración para eliminar las advertencias como sobrecalentamiento, motor dañado, pero mantenga los porcentajes o visualizado como una barra que se llena más o menos. Hay aviones que no tienen un indicador visual de sus radiadores, por ejemplo, e IRL que el piloto puede notar al sentir que operan los controles, especialmente estas ruedas.

Otra cosa es que algunos aviones tienen una posición de arrastre mínima óptima, como el Yak-7B, P-39, P-47 y los próximos Yak-9 si solo vas por temperatura, puedes terminar cerrándolos demasiado y tener una penalización de rendimiento cuando el piloto sabría más o menos dónde está esta posición neutral con su retroalimentación de la memoria muscular al operar la rueda.Tener que mirar la rueda contando revoluciones a la vez sería muy torpe y un caso claro de "no es más difícil".

Algunas marcas, en la textura de las cabinas cerca de las ruedas del radiador, pueden ayudar ...

the more axes we have, the better we could adjust these values

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Ala13_UnopaUno_VR