Inverted spins saved by lowering landing gear?

[il2crashesnfails]

So I was in my first inverted spin after getting an elevator blown clean off by cannon fire. 

 

1. I applied full opposite rudder. However, after abit I became disorientated I wasnt sure wich way I was spinning. So I just contiuned to hold down full left rudder.

I was running out of time and the spin continued so I lowered the gear and applied full flaps. 

 

It seemed to level the aircraft almost straight away. Does anyone know if this was just a coincidence or was it a technique used?

 

 

 

 

 

[AndyJWest]

Definitely an inverted spin. From watching the video, I think you were already coming out of the spin before the gear came out though. Personally, I'd have bailed. Nice recovery anyway.

 

I don't think that extending the gear is a normal inverted spin recovery procedure in real life, though given the complex physics involved in spins, it is just possible it might have a positive effect. Increasing the drag might slow rotation, and in the case of an A-20, lowering the gear moves the CG forwards, which should help (if the gear extension mechanism has the oomph to push the gear up, which it might well not). On the other hand, it might put the tail into turbulence, which definitely isn't a good thing.

 

In the early days of BoS, I got a Bf 109 F4 into an inverted flat spin at high altitude. Nothing I tried initially seemed to make any difference, though I didn't try extending the gear or flaps. Eventually it recovered, though I never really figured out why - perhaps the increase in air density was a factor? Like I said, complex physics. Few aircraft sims seem to model spins well, and I don't think it is realistic to expect them to be 100% accurate - not just because of the complexity, but because the necessary data is unlikely to exist in the first place. IL-2 GB does it better than most, but there may still be edge cases where doing weird stuff works. Otherwise, enjoy the ride, and bail out when you run out of altitude and ideas...

 

 

 

[Aurora_Stealth]

Really well recovered.

 

Agreed, lowering the gear will in theory just apply a great deal of drag to the aircraft which can sometimes hinder a normal dive recovery when you need to regain energy - but this was an inverted spin so you had a different scenario...

 

Sometimes lowering the gear and applying some drag will interfere with the spinning effect or at least knock some of the momentum out of the spin which in turn gives you a brief window to apply some aileron and elevator force and pull the aircraft up-right and (then) begin the dive recovery. It's pretty dicey though, so credit there.

 

You might find that when you begin to accelerate and regain energy in the dive (after righting the aircraft and regaining some stability) then retracting the gear again will help you to pull out of the dive sooner as an aircraft with mild positive stability like that (especially with flaps down) should naturally rise back up again as you gain decent speed.

[Raptorattacker]

Ha! Ha! Absolutely CLASSIC CnF scenario!! The only thing that shocked me was that you didn't get obliterated on the ground!! That's what normally happens, innit? I actually laughed out loud when the plane goes across the camera with the gunner shooting madly, it was like a Keystone Cops thing!!

Cheers mate, for bringing a little light (again!).

Rap

[il2crashesnfails]

after not knowing what to do I watched this vid by requiem.

 

 

 

 

in the video it is laid out to do the following 

 

1. idle the throttle. "I didnt do that I had them pinned at MAX"

2. Centre Stick        " I also didnt do that I was moving it all about"

3. Opposite Rudder  "This seems to be the only thing I did right"

4. Bring nose up       

and lastly

5. centre rudder, increase power.

 

I think this is a good SOP to have if it happens again. I would be nice to see requiem opinion as to whether the landing gear helped or it was just a coincidence. 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by il2crashesnfails

[Raptorattacker]

7 hours ago, il2crashesnfails said:

I would be nice to see requiem opinion as to whether the landing gear helped or it was just a coincidence.

Ask him. Are you on his Discord Channel?

https://discord.gg/TgW8RWK

[JG27*Kornezov]

What got you out of the inverted stall was the pulling  of the stick at the right moment. The gear had nothing to do with it. In inverted spin you pull the elevator in normal spin you push the elevator.

Edited May 11, 2020 by JG27_Kornezov

[il2crashesnfails]

21 hours ago, JG27_Kornezov said:

What got you out of the inverted stall was the pulling  of the stick at the right moment. The gear had nothing to do with it. In inverted spin you pull the elevator in normal spin you push the elevator.

 

You maybe right and its just a coincidence. However, seems pretty lucky the moment i pull the gear it levels out

[busdriver]

I can't recall the specifics, just that it was a (TWA or United) Boeing 727 late at night. High altitude cruise, ferry flight (no passengers) and coffin corner airspeed seem to part of the set up. The crew departed controlled flight (another way of saying stalled, then entered post-stall gyrations, possibly including spinning). They tried "doin' some of that pilot sh*t" without success. Out of ideas the guys threw the gear down, and apparently it helped either by the extra drag or the inertia of the gear lowering. The nose stabilized and they recovered safely after losing a lot of altitude.

 

Going through UPT, I had a T-37 IP bud demonstrate an inverted spin.  It wasn't part of the syllabus, and it convinced me I didn't want to become a T-37 FAIP (first assignment instructor pilot). Lowering the gear was not part of the recovery. That was the one and only inverted spin I've experienced.

 

WRT the A-20...

 

[Bremspropeller]

31 minutes ago, busdriver said:

Going through UPT, I had a T-37 IP bud demonstrate an inverted spin.  It wasn't part of the syllabus, and it convinced me I didn't want to become a T-37 FAIP (first assignment instructor pilot). Lowering the gear was not part of the recovery. That was the one and only inverted spin I've experienced.

 

What? No way!

 

Spoiler

 

 

[busdriver]

@Bremspropeller Holy sh*t...I love it

 

"I'm gonna hook 'em all!"

Edited May 12, 2020 by busdriver

[AndyJWest]

@ Busdriver: How could anyone not want to fly a plane that looked that cute?  ?

Edited May 12, 2020 by AndyJWest

[Bremspropeller]

6 minutes ago, busdriver said:

@Bremspropeller Holy sh*t...I love it

 

"I'm gonna hook 'em all!"

 

Brings back memories?

 

One of my favourite bands for sure!

[busdriver]

3 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

Brings back memories?

 

I did NOT want to spend 4 years in Columbus MS, even being a guy that matriculated in Valdosta GA (both are in Lowndes County).

[il2crashesnfails]

7 hours ago, busdriver said:

I can't recall the specifics, just that it was a (TWA or United) Boeing 727 late at night. High altitude cruise, ferry flight (no passengers) and coffin corner airspeed seem to part of the set up. The crew departed controlled flight (another way of saying stalled, then entered post-stall gyrations, possibly including spinning). They tried "doin' some of that pilot sh*t" without success. Out of ideas the guys threw the gear down, and apparently it helped either by the extra drag or the inertia of the gear lowering. The nose stabilized and they recovered safely after losing a lot of altitude.

 

Going through UPT, I had a T-37 IP bud demonstrate an inverted spin.  It wasn't part of the syllabus, and it convinced me I didn't want to become a T-37 FAIP (first assignment instructor pilot). Lowering the gear was not part of the recovery. That was the one and only inverted spin I've experienced.

 

WRT the A-20...

 

 

 

So basicaly below 5000 ft in uncontrolled spin bailout

[ZachariasX]

On 5/10/2020 at 2:53 PM, il2crashesnfails said:

It seemed to level the aircraft almost straight away. Does anyone know if this was just a coincidence or was it a technique used?

There are two kinds of inverted spins, the inverted spin and the inverted flat spin. They differ in how you control them.

 

In your video, you made a negative flicked roll and from there you departed in either an inverted spin or an inverted flat spin. The only thing you knew for certain is the direction of your spin, as this one was determined by the rudder pedal you kicked when doing the negative flick roll.

 

As for normal inveted spins, to exit you kick full rudder against your turn and then swiftly pull the stiack all the way back. See here in more detail:

Spoiler

 

 

Now, if that doesn't work, you might be in an inverted flat spin. It is a wholly different maneuver even if it sounds and looks kind of similar.

 

In the inverted flat spin, it is the gyroscopic precession of the prop that drives the maneuver. You can pull back (against lots of pressure) as much as you want, only setting throttle to idle will stop the maneuver 8as will increasing rpm acellerate the spin). See here:

Spoiler

 

 

Now, I'm not sure how in how much detail IL2 scripts these things, but let's assume it did. If you happened to cut the throttle while deploying the gear, I could say you were in an inverted flat spin and throttling back did the trick and landing gear deployment is not related to your outcome.