AI gunners do not fire when WP priority is high

[PatrickAWlson]

As the title says: high priority WP disables gunners.  Opinion: I don't think that this should ever happen.  Gunners should fire - period.

 

This plays into the previous problem.  One of the ways that I stop bombers from doing stupid tricks is to set WP priority to high - but then gunners don't fire.  

[[DBS]Browning]

This is a good bug report.

[Tarkus8]

The AI makes this game barely playable in single player

[PatrickAWlson]

I don't know what aspect of the internals of the game make this so difficult, but this really is a big deal.

 

There are four distinct issues that all play into each other.

Enabled AI uses lots and lots of CPU

AI sometimes flies bombers like fighters.

AI will not fire weapons on high priority waypoints.

Formation and cover commands cannot be applied to spawned units.

 

So I have to use spawned flights because of CPU issues.  I could make that flight keep pretty good formation if I could use high priority waypoints.  I cannot do that because they will not defend themselves.  If I could use a formation command on a spawned flight they might be more inclined to hold formation, taking minimal evasive action, but I can't do that because formation commands do not work on spawned entities.  If the AI would never fly bombers like fighters the effects would not be as noticeable, but since they sometimes do (circumstances unknown) it results in some pretty silly missions with B25s doing loops, rolls, and split-S. 

 

Please consider some changes.  I have heard it stated that SP is 90% of your customer base.  These four issues really do combine to make SP and Coop mission building difficult.

[SAS_Storebror]

Let me put my signature under your post @PatrickAWlson.

And let me add that this also is a big issue for Dogfight Mission building as soon as AI flights are involved, so in summary it affects all aspects of the game.

 

Mike

[357th_KW]

I would add that the fact that high priority on a waypoint keeps fighters from reacting is quite useful, as you can setup scenarios where players can bounce an AI (and then use a damage report to trigger them to react etc).  Otherwise the AI will pretty much always see you and react before you get in firing range.  So it would be nice if current AI pilot behavior remained unchanged, but just the gunners were able to react.

Edited September 8, 2020 by KW_1979

[PatrickAWlson]

41 minutes ago, KW_1979 said:

I would add that the fact that high priority on a waypoint keeps fighters from reacting is quite useful, as you can setup scenarios where players can bounce an AI (and then use a damage report to trigger them to react etc).  Otherwise the AI will pretty much always see you and react before you get in firing range.  So it would be nice if current AI pilot behavior remained unchanged, but just the gunners were able to react.

 

I'm not saying one should or should not do that, but I will argue the realism of the mechanism.  If you use a damage report the AI will not respond if you miss.  So it will keep flying straight and level until it gets hit.  I guess if you put the damage report low enough and assume that the player is not bad enough to miss completely then you can get a decent representation.

 

Having said that I would love for AI to be bounceable based on the AI quality value, but that is another topic.

[357th_KW]

1 hour ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

I'm not saying one should or should not do that, but I will argue the realism of the mechanism.  If you use a damage report the AI will not respond if you miss.  So it will keep flying straight and level until it gets hit.  I guess if you put the damage report low enough and assume that the player is not bad enough to miss completely then you can get a decent representation.

 

Having said that I would love for AI to be bounceable based on the AI quality value, but that is another topic.

 

Yeah, it's certainly not ideal.  But its the only solution I've found to overcome the infinite SA of even rookie AIs.  Medium priority can work as well - usually around 400-500 meters they will start to evade and act.  I've tried to use a variety of settings in the missions I put together to get the AI to react differently in each scenario, rather then just immediately furballing every time they see you.  I think most of my missions I made are broken at the moment due to DM changes - half the triggers don't work anymore, or else fights that were balanced before are now a one sided beatdown.  So that's certainly a downside to using damage and such as triggers - changes in the game can break your missions, and we'll probably see more changes coming with enhanced system damage modeling.

 

 

[SAS_Storebror]

I must say I have respawning "mud mover" flights (fake formations, as we can't spawn them) on our test mission for years now which approach their target at treetop level, with full speed and medium priority waypoints all along, consisting of fighter-bombers on each side.

I've never had issues with them engaging enemies over-aggressively, quite contrary: Sometimes you can sneak in from six-o-clock and throw your bullets into them from 50 meters distance before they drop their bombs and defend themselves.

Only if you clearly enter their view and get closer than let's say half a mile, they will drop bombs and try to get into a fight prematurely.

So that works just fine as much as I'm concerned.

Maybe the difference is that "my" fighters carry bombs.

Only devs could shed a light on this, but then again... how probable is it that a dev will come along and explain this issue and the underlying AI logic to us?

0%?

Might be too optimistic.

 

Mike

Edited September 9, 2020 by SAS_Storebror