Migoto Is a Cheat. Devs please Ban this!

[SharpeXB]

On 5/11/2020 at 2:25 AM, III/JG52_Al-Azraq said:

The devs implemented a different spotting solution which made it quite easy but this forum lost its mind about it and made 1C so revert the change adopting a middle ground solution which consisted in the old rendering system, with extended range.

The Devs own lead engineer did not like it either. It was very unrealistic and allows you to see aircraft too far away. 

On 5/11/2020 at 2:25 AM, III/JG52_Al-Azraq said:

So why people is not demanding the servers to turn on the new visibility and are using this tool instead?

Servers can run either Alternate or Normal Visibility. Most players prefer Normal so that’s how the server owners have responded. Alternate was tried online for quite a while but most players didn’t like it. 

[Beazil]

We are only a couple weeks from deferred rendering.  I'm looking forward to what is coming and the potential changes it may bring as far as this issue is concerned.  Maybe one day (soon?) this whole discussion will be moot.

 

 

[LemonQuat]

17 hours ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

 

 

I think I'm going to just start spamming this any time people start spreading misinformation. 

 

 

 

Pictured: Objectively bad vanilla spotting compared with actually decent spotting.

Note the lack of jagged, anti-aliasing on the distant contact with migoto, and how the airplane still maintains a clear, crisp profile which contrasts well with the background sky. Compare with the poorly aliased, washed out wreck that comprises the abortion that is monitor spotting. Note how the monitor user must disable anti-aliasing to prevent the pixels at the edge of the planform from being aliased into the background, and also note how completely washed out the whole image is do to the overabundance of blur effects present in vanilla that cannot be  removed without changes to the config file of the game. Note how while migoto users are clearly able to see, track, and identify an object which is quite believably a plane, monitor users have to contend with staring at jagged, flickering pixel-clusters that look ripped straight from IL-2 1946. 

The problem isn't that migoto users have supervision. The problem is the objectively bad spotting everyone else has to put up with. 

Edited May 13, 2020 by -332FG-LemonQuat

[JaMz]

Shocking, that's what it is..

 

The ones that are not moaning do not pipe about it as its given them clear advantage, yet quick to jump on anyone that mentions it,  giving the numbers experiencing it and the vast differences in hardware we all have, its clearly an issue..

 

The blurred band you have literally running along the horizon is where most contacts are lost for me, unless they are shimmering like F against clouds. 

 

I hope that the deferred rendering gives them the opportunity to address this issue although i throw caution out there to anyone thinking the first patch with it working will fix this issue from the get go.

 

The reality is that they are loosing players/customers because of it, as its just not fun being involved in a game your not able to spot anyone, yet have no drama with CloD or DCS..

Edited May 13, 2020 by Han_Solo

[SCG_Wulfe]

3 hours ago, -332FG-LemonQuat said:

Pictured: Objectively bad vanilla spotting compared with actually decent spotting.

Note the lack of jagged, anti-aliasing on the distant contact with migoto, and how the airplane still maintains a clear, crisp profile which contrasts well with the background sky. Compare with the poorly aliased, washed out wreck that comprises the abortion that is monitor spotting. Note how the monitor user must disable anti-aliasing to prevent the pixels at the edge of the planform from being aliased into the background, and also note how completely washed out the whole image is do to the overabundance of blur effects present in vanilla that cannot be  removed without changes to the config file of the game. Note how while migoto users are clearly able to see, track, and identify an object which is quite believably a plane, monitor users have to contend with staring at jagged, flickering pixel-clusters that look ripped straight from IL-2 1946. 

The problem isn't that migoto users have supervision. The problem is the objectively bad spotting everyone else has to put up with. 

 

I think you are not being objective at all. 

 

I would argue there is just as much (if not more) detail displayed in the monitor zoomed image as there is in the migoto 10x zoom.

 

Note, you can see the cooling intake and undercarriage on the monitor image. We can also see the rough colour of the aircraft and not just a dark object. Yes, it is slightly pixelated. However, keep in mind that my VR images were taken from an Odyssey plus which bleeds adjacent pixels together for a smoother, yet fuzzier, image. 

 

If we take the max zoom on monitor vs the 10x zoom of the migoto mod and blow both images up, this is what we see: 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by SCG_Wulfe

[HunDread]

1 minute ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

I think you are not being objective at all. 

 

If we take the 10x zoom of the migoto mod vs a monitor and zoom in, this is what we see. 

 

I would argue there is just as much, if not more, detail displayed in the monitor zoomed image as there is in the migoto 10x zoom. Note, you can see the air intake and undercarriage on the monitor image. Yes, it is slightly pixelated. However, keep in mind that my VR images were taken from an Odyssey plus which bleeds adjacent pixels together for a smoother, yet fuzzier, image. 

 

 

 

 

And in addition. 10x zoom with migoto in VR is just barely useable, just for max 1-2 seconds quick glance as it's very hard to keep your head still. 10x migoto + 1.5 default VR zoom is even worse, on the border of practically not useable.

[Beazil]

I find myself agreeing with Han on this.  It would be great if there were no need for the mod at all.  No mod equals no drama.  The perception alone that spotting is different has created too much negativity and I look forward to it's resolution.  For the immediate future I imagine many will still use the mod because of its near necessity for VR but hopefully those days are numbered.

[Talisman]

3 hours ago, Han_Solo said:

Shocking, that's what it is..

 

The ones that are not moaning do not pipe about it as its given them clear advantage, yet quick to jump on anyone that mentions it,  giving the numbers experiencing it and the vast differences in hardware we all have, its clearly an issue..

 

The blurred band you have literally running along the horizon is where most contacts are lost for me, unless they are shimmering like F against clouds. 

 

I hope that the deferred rendering gives them the opportunity to address this issue although i throw caution out there to anyone thinking the first patch with it working will fix this issue from the get go.

 

The reality is that they are loosing players/customers because of it, as its just not fun being involved in a game your not able to spot anyone, yet have no drama with CloD or DCS..

 

If CloD goes well with its new release and then moves on to incorporate VR capability successfully and has good air to air visuals for spotting, then I will move over to CloD as my flight simulation of choice in a flash.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

[III/JG52_Otto_-I-]

21 hours ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

 

 

I think I'm going to just start spamming this any time people start spreading misinformation. 

 

 

 

Please try to do same snapshots without reshade, ..if you are able to uninstall the reshade completely, without reinstalling the game.
Default spotting is worst than your pictures, at 1920x1080px whiout reshade in my PC, ( intel i7, 16Gb ram, GTX-1660TI).

[DD_Arthur]

2 minutes ago, 56RAF_Talisman said:

 

If CloD goes well with its new release and then moves on to incorporate VR capability successfully and has good air to air visuals for spotting, then I will move over to CloD as my flight simulation of choice in a flash.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

 

Lol. 

[Barnacles]

11 minutes ago, 56RAF_Talisman said:

 

If CloD goes well with its new release and then moves on to incorporate VR capability successfully and has good air to air visuals for spotting, then I will move over to CloD as my flight simulation of choice in a flash.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

CloD would be great in VR, imagine the frame rates!

[SCG_Wulfe]

47 minutes ago, III/JG52_Otto_-I- said:

Please try to do same snapshots without reshade, ..if you are able to uninstall the reshade completely, without reinstalling the game.
Default spotting is worst than your pictures, at 1920x1080px whiout reshade in my PC, ( intel i7, 16Gb ram, GTX-1660TI).

 

I do not have or use re-shade... I would suggest adjusting/playing more with your graphics settings. The monitor zoom image I took is with a completely unmodified game/no aids. 

Edited May 13, 2020 by SCG_Wulfe

[III/JG52_Otto_-I-]

21 minutes ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

I do not have or use re-shade... I would suggest adjusting/playing more with your graphics settings. The monitor zoom image I took is with a completely unmodified game/no aids. 

playing more with your graphics settings?? ... Are you suggesting that default setting in "ultra" is not the optimal configuration??   why are you thinking that??  

[SCG_Wulfe]

Just now, III/JG52_Otto_-I- said:

playing more with your graphics settings?? ... Are you suggesting that default setting in "ultra" is not the optimal configuration??   why are you thinking that??  

 

Absolutely I am suggesting that. 

 

There are already plenty of guides on optimizing the current graphical situation and biasing your settings towards spotting or identification or a mixture of both. 

 

To give two basic suggestions to start with:

 

- Higher resolution will aid identification, lower resolution will aid spotting. (it is a trade-off)

 

- Use the least amount of anti-aliasing that you are comfortable with in order to spot better. Some anti-aliasing can help with identification. Highly recommend against setting it to 4X. 

 

 

[SharpeXB]

32 minutes ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

- Use the least amount of anti-aliasing that you are comfortable with in order to spot better. Some anti-aliasing can help with identification. Highly recommend against setting it to 4X. 

I use 4x AA plus Sharpen in 4K and I can see all the other aircraft as razor sharp distinct profiles and I can read the marking on them. I can’t see turning AA down as a help at all. I can see distant aircraft as distinct sharp flecks as well. I wish I could post what I see but it loses quality in translation. 

 

An example is the G-14 here. In actual gameplay it is extremely visible to the point where I cannot miss it at all. The 262 is very visible too, of course because these are moving in the actual game.

Edited May 13, 2020 by SharpeXB

[SCG_Wulfe]

 

6 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

I use 4x AA plus Sharpen in 4K and I can see all the other aircraft as razor sharp distinct profiles and I can read the marking on them. I can’t see turning AA down as a help at all. I can see distant aircraft as distinct sharp flecks as well. I wish I could post what I see but it loses quality in translation. 

 

An example is the G-14 here. In actual gameplay it is extremely visible to the point where I cannot miss it at all. The 262 is very visible too, of course because these are moving in the actual game.

 

 

Turning down AA is well proven to help with spotting. This is especially the case against snow and sky. AA blends adjacent pixels with edge pixels to soften edges. The effect looks pretty. However,  you can imagine that on a distant contact... one that is only a handful of pixels big, losing contrast of the edge pixels is not going to help you spot it. 

 

I'm glad you can spot sufficiently with 4X AA. I know for a fact that many people, including myself, cannot. 

 

I have a feeling you would be surprised how much better some of us might be able to see than you simply based on messing with graphical settings in the standard game. 

[SharpeXB]

9 minutes ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

Turning down AA is well proven to help with spotting. This is especially the case against snow and sky. AA blends adjacent pixels with edge pixels to soften edges.

Yeah I see that. But you also get pieces or entire aircraft vanishing from view as it’s either back or white and no shading. I remember the vanilla Cliffs of Dover had no functioning AA and the spotting was horrendous. Plus it just makes the game look awful. And yes, that might help in high contrast conditions but combine that vanishing on an aircraft against the ground and it’s not a help. I’m also very much more concerned with IDing closer targets than seeing specks of distant ones. Those might as well be on the moon for as much as it affects me. The guy who kills me will be 100 yards away. 

[SCG_Wulfe]

18 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Yeah I see that. But you also get pieces or entire aircraft vanishing from view as it’s either back or white and no shading. I remember the vanilla Cliffs of Dover had no functioning AA and the spotting was horrendous. Plus it just makes the game look awful. And yes, that might help in high contrast conditions but combine that vanishing on an aircraft against the ground and it’s not a help. I’m also very much more concerned with IDing closer targets than seeing specks of distant ones. Those might as well be on the moon for as much as it affects me. The guy who kills me will be 100 yards away. 

 

Like I said, it is a trade-off. 2x AA suits many users just fine (I believe I used 2X AA for the image I took of the monitor for comparison purposes, I figured it most closely matched what most users set). In VR, I turn AA off.  I don't know about CLOD, but the way the I've found it handled in IL2-BOX is that you never have a contact disappear due to anti-aliasing being turned off. It will always display a pixel that it meant to. However with it on, it can all but blend that pixel out making stuff essentially disappear just like you said.

 

I won't dispute that anti-aliasing 'on' makes stuff look better. However for me, seeing those contacts as far away as possible, hopefully before they see me, allows me choices.

 

First of all, to choose to engage or not engage. Second, how to best position myself using factors such as the sun, other aircraft, or objectives.

 

This is half of why I hated the alternate visibility so much. It completely eliminated this realistic cat and mouse game of who-sees-who first. Everyone can see everything at pretty much all times. At that point, we may as well just spread the spawns far apart and only play on Berloga. 

Edited May 13, 2020 by SCG_Wulfe

[CountZero]

7 minutes ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

Like I said, it is a trade-off. 2x AA suits many users just fine (I believe I used 2X AA for the image I took of the monitor for comparison purposes, I figured it most closely matched what most users set). In VR, I turn AA off.  I don't know about CLOD, but the way the I've found it handled in IL2-BOX is that you never have a contact disappear due to anti-aliasing being turned off. It will always display a pixel that it meant to. However with it on, it can all but blend that pixel out making stuff essentially disappear just like you said.

 

I won't dispute that anti-aliasing 'on' makes stuff look better. However for me, seeing those contacts as far away as possible, hopefully before they see me, allows me choices.

 

First of all, to choose to engage or not engage. Second, how to best position myself using factors such as the sun, other aircraft, or objectives.

 

This is half of why I hated the alternate visibility so much. It completely eliminated this realistic cat and mouse game of who-sees-who first. Everyone can see everything at pretty much all times. At that point, we may as well just spread the spawns far apart and only play on Berloga. 

 

Yes so people using zoom cheats dont have advantage anymore over guys dont using it ?

[NiiranenVR]

10 minutes ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

BOX is that you never have a contact disappear due to anti-aliasing being turned off

well , in my pc / game I have the AA off , and and can happens for me that plane disappear ...

I have on film ,one day in flying Circus I could see planes 20-30 km away - own side - and I would take a look .... After long time flying iwas at the area and will soon get close to the plane and they disappear 

It happens first for some plane , but I saw others and then I decide 2 film it .... So , and it happens again 

For me the plane could disappear 

[Giovanni_Giorgio]

13 minutes ago, CountZero said:

 

Yes so people using zoom cheats dont have advantage anymore over guys dont using it ?

Exactly. Honestly, I think we should accept that given the current situation spotting just does not work and use some kind of markers. Yes, it is not realistic. But at least it will level the playing field and erase the advantage that ReShade and mods abusers have right now. 

[Velxra]

4 hours ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

I think you are not being objective at all. 

 

I would argue there is just as much (if not more) detail displayed in the monitor zoomed image as there is in the migoto 10x zoom.

 

Note, you can see the cooling intake and undercarriage on the monitor image. We can also see the rough colour of the aircraft and not just a dark object. Yes, it is slightly pixelated. However, keep in mind that my VR images were taken from an Odyssey plus which bleeds adjacent pixels together for a smoother, yet fuzzier, image. 

 

If we take the max zoom on monitor vs the 10x zoom of the migoto mod and blow both images up, this is what we see: 

 

 

 

If you use your peripheral vision and look slightly away from the images. You should be able to notice how much easier you pick up the plane on the right which is the mod version. The plane is also much more defined and does not blend into the light blue tinted background.

I do know iL-2 has a light blue tinting at distance. It makes the background scenery at distance light blue. Perhaps it is acting like a layer causing planes to appear more as one color thus blending in far more than they should. Then since we know the mod does not render in effects while zooming. I bet this light blue layering does not appear for VR users and that is why there is a difference here. If this light blue layering was removed perhaps that will help solve our spotting issue. 

[SCG_Wulfe]

43 minutes ago, CountZero said:

 

Yes so people using zoom cheats dont have advantage anymore over guys dont using it ?

 

Once again....

 

The zoom mod in VR does not let you spot anything you cannot see without it. No one is using it to spot distant contacts. I use no zoom at all to spot. 

 

The zoom is for ID. Further, the zoom in VR is completely comparable to monitor zoom. 

 

13 minutes ago, Geronimo553 said:

 

If you use your peripheral vision and look slightly away from the images. You should be able to notice how much easier you pick up the plane on the right which is the mod version. The plane is also much more defined and does not blend into the light blue tinted background.

I do know iL-2 has a light blue tinting at distance. It makes the background scenery at distance light blue. Perhaps it is acting like a layer causing planes to appear more as one color thus blending in far more than they should. Then since we know the mod does not render in effects while zooming. I bet this light blue layering does not appear for VR users and that is why there is a difference here. If this light blue layering was removed perhaps that will help solve our spotting issue. 

 

Once again, this is absolutely, positively, not used for spotting in VR. It is for ID purposes. (ID being the identification of what type of aircraft you have spotted while using no zoom at all)

 

Google:

 

spot

/spät/

gerund or present participle: spotting

1. 1.

   see, notice, or recognize (someone or something) that is difficult to detect or that one is searching for.

    

    

   i·den·ti·fy

   /īˈden(t)əˌfī/

    

   verb

    

   1. 1.

      establish or indicate who or what (someone or something) is.

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by SCG_Wulfe

[Velxra]

Your entire "sole" argument is defeated by your own pictures which clearly show there is a very clearly defined effect. On screen the plane is distorted with pixelization and using the mod the plane becomes quite well defined. So why you just keep repeating yourself of who uses what is beyond baffling. I stand by my previous statement regarding the light blue lighting layer playing a role in the issue. 

[CountZero]

3 hours ago, mincer said:

Exactly. Honestly, I think we should accept that given the current situation spotting just does not work and use some kind of markers. Yes, it is not realistic. But at least it will level the playing field and erase the advantage that ReShade and mods abusers have right now. 

Well it would help if game have better optons for icons, so servers can set only frendly or only enemy icons , or at what distances they start to show up, or they are just grey dot without info from far and get blue or red closer and give up simple info closer, like god old IL-2 had. I would not expect visability to get any changes for long time, what gona get fix is invisable airplane bugs and thats it. So as reshade is alowed by devs to be used, and no coment on this mod here your best bet is use all tricks you can to have same chance as others as you can see its free for all when it comes to enhancing poor options game gives you. 

3 hours ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

Once again....

 

The zoom mod in VR does not let you spot anything you cannot see without it. No one is using it to spot distant contacts. I use no zoom at all to spot. 

 

The zoom is for ID. Further, the zoom in VR is completely comparable to monitor zoom. 

 

 

Once again, this is absolutely, positively, not used for spotting in VR. It is for ID purposes. (ID being the identification of what type of aircraft you have spotted while using no zoom at all)

 

Google:

 

spot

/spät/

gerund or present participle: spotting

1. 1.

   see, notice, or recognize (someone or something) that is difficult to detect or that one is searching for.

    

    

   i·den·ti·fy

   /īˈden(t)əˌfī/

    

   verb

    

   1. 1.

      establish or indicate who or what (someone or something) is.

 

Yes Yes no advantages what so ever, people are just using it for good looks, but if its not baned that means its alowed so off we go zoom zoom

Edited May 13, 2020 by CountZero

[SIA_Sp00k]

So glad this thread isnt dead. It really is the best read on the forum

[Giovanni_Giorgio]

30 minutes ago, CountZero said:

Well it would help if game have better optons for icons, so servers can set only frendly or only enemy icons , or at what distances they start to show up, or they are just grey dot without info from far and get blue or red closer and give up simple info closer, like god old IL-2 had. I would not expect visability to get any changes for long time, what gona get fix is invisable airplane bugs and thats it. So as reshade is alowed by devs to be used, and no coment on this mod here your best bet is use all tricks you can to have same chance as others as you can see its free for all when it comes to enhancing poor options game gives you. 

Yes Yes no advantages what so ever, people are just using it for good looks, but if its not baned that means its alowed so off we go zoom zoom

Agree. Does anyone else thinks the same?

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Wulfe,

 

let the guys argue. It doesn't matter. The course is already set on how it proceeds, and I have mentioned it before:

 

Quote

 

To put you in the picture for Version 19:

 

- 2D zoom is disabled - mod won't work anymore for 2D monitor. An essential shader grab and modification got dropped to ensure it remains that way.

 

- VR zoom is reduced from 10x to 8.5x and coupled with 1.5x native zoom, for combined 10x. This is equivalent to the 2D Monitor's 5x native zoom.

 

That way, no more advantage for 2D monitor players is possible. We have removed all old versions of the mod which had enabled 2D zoom.

 

These are through-the-lens shots.

 

With the switch to deferred rendering, all old versions that someone had already downloaded stop working. 

All new versions will come with the mentioned, adjusted levels, and without 2D integration.

 

The aim was and is to always keep a fair environment. 2D players and VR players shall have the same zoom results. 

 

P.S. Mister Jason Williams himself (a futurist too that is into VR) has allowed the mod in its VR variant. It did not support 2D yet, so he never allowed it for 2D, and could not have been aware of this issue. This now gets corrected. So guys, stop trashing the damn forums with new threads about it, and take down that YouTube BS. You're giving the game a bad rep when continuing this rambling, especially if you know that in 2 weeks  with def rendering no old version of the mod will work in that way anymore! None. Good that the guy has no range and it gets downvoted so much.

 

P.S. The videos are actually modificiations of the shaders themselves. You are breaking the EULA by hacking it that way, especially that Daniel Frazer guy. We're currently gathering evidence on those who have done this.

 

P.P.S. When an ingame VR zoom comes, it comes. But for such a thing, it would need an announcement first. The devs are working their butts off on limited resources and all you guys post and spread videos on BULLS--- that will be yesterday's talk right in the minute the next patch comes. It cannot be magically removed to work right now with a switch of a button. And even then, it's a shader mod - you depend on the goodwill of the creator. You need to realize that, and that we all want a fair game.

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[SCG_Wulfe]

As much as I love responding to these circular arguments like it’s Groundhog Day... Enough has been said and shown in this thread to shed light on the subject. This zoom mod on a 2D monitor is completely not as intended in VR and is a cheat on a monitor. This is not at all the same thing as in VR where it brings parity (and quite simply has less magnification than when used on a monitor). 
 

Have fun all ?

Edited May 13, 2020 by SCG_Wulfe

[Velxra]

I'm just gonna facepalm on how far some people will go in denying issues or "various" outlining concerns. Especially if it involves an expensive product causing some to merely reply with an emotional response against clearly reproducible game breaking advantages. Truly amazing...

 

Also "again" as you say, the concern is the zoom feature being enabled for monitors providing this unfair advantage and not necessarily an issue in VR nor what they may or may not be doing with it. 

[Tonester]

I cant believe that people, particularly grown men, will cheat at this game, at any game....to what end? Bragging rights? you must have a very frail ego

or low self esteem if that is important to you. And YOU will always know that YOU cheated....you have achieved nothing...boggles the mind

[E69_geramos109]

9 hours ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

As much as I love responding to these circular arguments like it’s Groundhog Day... Enough has been said and shown in this thread to shed light on the subject. This zoom mod on a 2D monitor is completely not as intended in VR and is a cheat on a monitor. This is not at all the same thing as in VR where it brings parity (and quite simply has less magnification than when used on a monitor). 
 

Have fun all ?

Hahhahaha. Now the cheaters are the monitor users who can not see shit as well. 

Vr with this mod can outspot and outId anyone using just monitor is ridiculous

[HunDread]

1 hour ago, E69_geramos109 said:

Hahhahaha. Now the cheaters are the monitor users who can not see shit as well. 

Vr with this mod can outspot and outId anyone using just monitor is ridiculous

 

This has always been the argument. Not calling monitor users using the mod cheaters of course becouse not everyone does that you know, but that the mod probably gives advantage in 2d while not in VR.

 

At least take the trouble to read through the 15 pages of shitstorm you stirred up.

[E69_geramos109]

1 hour ago, HunDread said:

 

This has always been the argument. Not calling monitor users using the mod cheaters of course becouse not everyone does that you know, but that the mod probably gives advantage in 2d while not in VR.

 

At least take the trouble to read through the 15 pages of shitstorm you stirred up.

???? that is why there are no tons of treats on the forum about shit visibility and that is why Vr people were spoting way better since the path Xd. 

Is amacing how some beliebe is not an advantage on VR 

Edited May 14, 2020 by E69_geramos109

[SCG_Wulfe]

44 minutes ago, E69_geramos109 said:

???? that is why there are no tons of treats on the forum about shit visibility and that is why Vr people were spoting way better since the path Xd. 

Is amacing how some beliebe is not an advantage on VR 

[III/JG52_Al-Azraq]

On 5/12/2020 at 8:31 PM, SharpeXB said:

The Devs own lead engineer did not like it either. It was very unrealistic and allows you to see aircraft too far away. 

Servers can run either Alternate or Normal Visibility. Most players prefer Normal so that’s how the server owners have responded. Alternate was tried online for quite a while but most players didn’t like it. 

 

Yes, I get that. But now many players are using this cheat with the excuse of bad visibility. My point is, that they are using it for cheating because otherwise they would be demanding to just turn alternate visibility on.

[SCG_Wulfe]

21 minutes ago, III/JG52_Al-Azraq said:

 

Yes, I get that. But now many players are using this cheat with the excuse of bad visibility. My point is, that they are using it for cheating because otherwise they would be demanding to just turn alternate visibility on.

 

We all agree, that on monitor, it is a cheat. 

 

Those of us in VR don't want to cheat, we want the same ability to identify contacts as monitor users. We don't want to be at a needless disadvantage to monitor users simply because the base game doesn't give us the same level of zoom as you. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by SCG_Wulfe

[von_Tom]

1 minute ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

We all agree that on monitor it is a cheat. 

 

Those of us in VR don't want to cheat, we want the same ability to identify contacts as monitor users... plain and simple. 

 

….preferably without alternate visibility as it is currently implemented.

 

Of course, this whole thing is moot in those servers where alternate visibility is disabled.

 

This thread is a gift that keeps giving though.

 

von Tom

[DD_Arthur]

1 minute ago, von_Tom said:

This thread is a gift that keeps giving though.

 

Only another couple of weeks of this garbage thankfully.  @Wulfe m8;  don't bother.....honestly

[E69_geramos109]

I guess VR users also need to blur the terrain, quit the prop and all this features ?