[MOD] Torpedoes for German Aircraft

[=FEW=Hauggy]

Nice!

I always thought it was such a shame we didn't get this along with Kuban's release.

It was obviously the thing to do. I hope there's some plan to share it with the devs so they can finally add some to the game itself and we can sink ships online.

[Jason_Williams]

2 hours ago, =FEW=Hauggy said:

Nice!

I always thought it was such a shame we didn't get this along with Kuban's release.

It was obviously the thing to do. I hope there's some plan to share it with the devs so they can finally add some to the game itself and we can sink ships online.

 

1. There were no torpedo equipped squads in the Kuban like you think.

 

2. Why do you think they are so easy to adapt to airplanes already? Because we designed them that way. You're welcome. Lemon did not invent anything radical.

They just don't fit the aircraft and scenarios we have, so we left them out. Sometimes you like it when we are historically correct, and sometimes you don't. We can't win.

 

Jason

[C6_lefuneste]

12 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

There were no torpedo equipped squads in the Kuban like you think.
They just don't fit the aircraft and scenarios we have, so we left them out. Sometimes you like it when we are historically correct, and sometimes you don't. We can't win.

 

Jason

A lot of people used Kuban to "simulate" other battle field in online campaign. For example Tomio setup a campaign on new guinea (with macchi as ki  61), there is an ongoing campaign "channel 42",...

Having this torpedoes in vanilla game should be a great addition for this context.

Edited April 26, 2020 by c6_lefuneste

[CanadaOne]

Geez, someone is feeling like a victim today.

 

Radical or not the torpedoes are great. Damn good fun and glad to have 'em.

[namhee2]

Il-2T

Torpedo bomber version for the Soviet Navy with the VYa-23 cannons removed to save weight, it was able to carry a single 45 cm (18 in) torpedo.^[5][42] Evidently, it was only a design as the 23rd Attack Air Regiment of the Black Sea Fleet flew regular Il-2M-3s fitted with torpedo racks as a field modification, and that no such aircraft were ever noted in the battle sortie logs.^[43]

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

13 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

 

1. There were no torpedo equipped squads in the Kuban like you think.

 

2. Why do you think they are so easy to adapt to airplanes already? Because we designed them that way. You're welcome. Lemon did not invent anything radical.

They just don't fit the aircraft and scenarios we have, so we left them out. Sometimes you like it when we are historically correct, and sometimes you don't. We can't win.

 

Jason

 

Can you tell us if you will implement the torpedoes in BON?

(It would make BON special, believe me!) That move is a win.

We REALLY REALLY want them so bad .... 

Edited April 26, 2020 by =gRiJ=Roman-

[=FEW=Hauggy]

1 hour ago, Jason_Williams said:

 

1. There were no torpedo equipped squads in the Kuban like you think.

 

2. Why do you think they are so easy to adapt to airplanes already? Because we designed them that way. You're welcome. Lemon did not invent anything radical.

They just don't fit the aircraft and scenarios we have, so we left them out. Sometimes you like it when we are historically correct, and sometimes you don't. We can't win.

 

Jason

I think I had the Battle for the Kerch Peninsula in mind which took place in pretty much the same area.

I believe the Soviet Hospital ship Armenia was sunk by a torpedo armed He-111 unit operating in the black sea area.

So I guess that's not happening?

My mistake I got the period of time wrong yes.

That doesn't mean such a scenario can't be done on that perticular map, I think it would be nice to have them regardless.

Also I'm not sure if it's necessary to be so agressive and/or take everything personally. I doubt you designed those torpedoes yourself.

You're welcome for the money I gave you.

Hauggy

Edited April 25, 2020 by =FEW=Hauggy

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

Didn't the Ju 88 and He 111 torp planes have the bombsights removed and replaced by a more simplified version of the Torpedo Data Computer the U-boats used? to calculate torpedo gyro turn depending on the ships AoB and speed.

That could be one of the limitations of implementing that in the base game, to model that new system.

[FoxbatRU]

2 часа назад, namhee2 сказал:

Il-2T

Torpedo bomber version for the Soviet Navy with the VYa-23 cannons removed to save weight, it was able to carry a single 45 cm (18 in) torpedo.^[5][42] Evidently, it was only a design as the 23rd Attack Air Regiment of the Black Sea Fleet flew regular Il-2M-3s fitted with torpedo racks as a field modification, and that no such aircraft were ever noted in the battle sortie logs.^[43]

In reality, such an aircraft did not exist. And could not exist. In Russian there is a lecture of a large specialist in IL-2 (Oleg Rastrenin) . He said that the power set of the fuselage could not afford to suspend such a weight.

 

But torpedoes are great! I hope in Normandy we get them officially.

 

[Yogiflight]

2 hours ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

Didn't the Ju 88 and He 111 torp planes have the bombsights removed and replaced by a more simplified version of the Torpedo Data Computer the U-boats used? to calculate torpedo gyro turn depending on the ships AoB and speed.

That could be one of the limitations of implementing that in the base game, to model that new system.

At least, this was the official statement back in BOK days. There never was an explanation, that there were no torpedobombers at the Kuban front, but that it was too difficult to model it historically correct.

[CanadaOne]

2 hours ago, =FEW=Hauggy said:

Also I'm not sure if it's necessary to be so agressive and/or take everything personally. I doubt you designed those torpedoes yourself.

You're welcome for the money I gave you.

Hauggy

 

I don't get that either.

 

A paying customer takes it upon himself, on his own dime, on his own time, to make the game a little bit better and raise the enthusiasm for it, and the guy who makes the money off the game acts like the injured party.

 

What can you do, eh?

[LukeFF]

6 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

At least, this was the official statement back in BOK days. There never was an explanation, that there were no torpedobombers at the Kuban front, but that it was too difficult to model it historically correct.

 

Yes, years and years ago, when the Team Daidalos guys added German torpedo bombers to the old IL2, they showed how there was a torpedo data computer added to the observer's position that had to be set up properly for the torpedoes to hit (plus external model changes). So, it's not nearly as easy to add them here by just making them a loadout. 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by LukeFF

[BraveSirRobin]

9 hours ago, =FEW=Hauggy said:

 

Also I'm not sure if it's necessary to be so agressive and/or take everything personally. I doubt you designed those torpedoes yourself.

 

 

He isn't being "aggressive".  He's explaining why they didn't include torpedoes, and why it was so easy for someone to create a mod to add them.  The only one taking things personally is you.

[Yogiflight]

6 hours ago, LukeFF said:

So, it's not nearly as easy to add them here by just making them a loadout. 

And that is OK. I think everyone did understand that argumentation. It is a completely different story, if the torpedoes are implemented by a mod or by the game itself.

But, correct me if I'm wrong, I can't remember having been mentioned back then, there were no torpedo equipped squadrons at the Kuban area. Otherwise I would not have posted my quote on Juri's post about implementing the torpedoes in BON.

[LukeFF]

I'm not aware of any torpedo squadrons in Kuban in that area in the spring and summer of 1943. The main bomber units in that area were KG 55 and KG 51, and neither of them flew torpedo bombers.

[Blitzen]

I'm trying to use other of my AI squadron mates to carry torpedoes , attack shipping  AND for goodness sake ,draw some fire away from me, in the Kuban in imaginary QMB shipping attack.Can you tell me if my AI mates know how to use the new wonder weapons in low level attack or are they clueless?

Also , in my install I usually have to reload the torpedoes in the screen just before the mission starts.They don't seem to be there if I only load them in the strtoff QMB screen.I have got to do this for any of the aircraft I choose.Is this normal or just a glitch in my install? Thanks!

Edited April 26, 2020 by Blitzen

[Juri_JS]

Quote

I'm not aware of any torpedo squadrons in Kuban in that area in the spring and summer of 1943. The main bomber units in that area were KG 55 and KG 51, and neither of them flew torpedo bombers.

 

German torpedo bombers from KG 26 were active in the Black Sea region only in 1941 and 1942 flying the He-111. They were based in Romania and later on the Crimea at Saki, outside the area of the Kuban map. In April and May 1944 a Staffel of Ju-88 A17 from KG 26 was send to Romania, but no torpedo attacks were flown.

Edited April 26, 2020 by Juri_JS

[Yogiflight]

1 hour ago, Blitzen said:

I'm trying to use other of my AI squadron mates to carry torpedoes , attack shipping  AND for goodness sake ,draw some fire away from me, in the Kuban in imaginary QMB shipping attack.Can you tell me if my AI mates know how to use the new wonder weapons in low level attack or are they clueless?

I tried that one time withthe command 'Follow me and do like I do', but it didn't work, they didn't drop the eels. I don't think it will work, as AI will think he has two SC1000 under the fuselage.

 

1 hour ago, Blitzen said:

Also , in my install I usually have to reload the torpedoes in the screen just before the mission starts.They don't seem to be there if I only load them in the strtoff QMB screen.I have got to do this for any of the aircraft I choose.Is this normal or just a glitch in my install? Thanks!

This is odd. For me it works like every other weapon loadout.

[Viktor33_33]

On 4/25/2020 at 9:37 PM, Jason_Williams said:

 

1. There were no torpedo equipped squads in the Kuban like you think.

 

2. Why do you think they are so easy to adapt to airplanes already? Because we designed them that way. You're welcome. Lemon did not invent anything radical.

They just don't fit the aircraft and scenarios we have, so we left them out. Sometimes you like it when we are historically correct, and sometimes you don't. We can't win.

 

Jason

German torpedo bombers were used in the Kuban. He-111 torpedoes sank the tanker Valerian Kuibyshev on 2 April 1942. The place of the sinking is in our map Kuban.
But the Focke-Wulf 190 was never used in Stalingrad, but in our game this did not prevent it from being added there.

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Валериан_Куйбышев_(танкер)

Edited April 27, 2020 by Viktor33_33

[Danziger]

1 hour ago, Viktor33_33 said:

But the Focke-Wulf 190 was never used in Stalingrad, but in our game this did not prevent it from being added there.

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Валериан_Куйбышев_(танкер)

That was before Jason was in charge.

[1./JG42Nephris]

Quote

Lemon did not invent anything radical.

 

Motivation sounds different to me.?

 

 

 

@Lizlemon great job ,thx for your input to the community. Keep it up, to find some more ?

 

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by 1./JG42Nephris

[Ribbon]

On 4/25/2020 at 8:37 PM, Jason_Williams said:

 

1. There were no torpedo equipped squads in the Kuban like you think.

 

2. Why do you think they are so easy to adapt to airplanes already? Because we designed them that way. You're welcome. Lemon did not invent anything radical.

They just don't fit the aircraft and scenarios we have, so we left them out. Sometimes you like it when we are historically correct, and sometimes you don't. We can't win.

 

Jason

BoN=>groups of 90 ju88a17 attacked allied supply ships and british ports.??

I know it's not easy to implement them and it will require a new version of ju88 (developed from ju88a4) but it would expand il2 gameplay wise a lot.

 

//Throw in flyable B-25 and i'll send you my credit card number with verification code?//

 

@LizLemon thank you, thank you a lot, i avoid mods but this one i'm going to download and use a lot!

[Semor76]

Nice Gimick for QMB missions/ single flights in Multiplayer. But more or less useless for everything else. Due to the missing AI routine code.

 

On 4/26/2020 at 9:01 PM, Yogiflight said:

I tried that one time withthe command 'Follow me and do like I do', but it didn't work, they didn't drop the eels. I don't think it will work, as AI will think he has two SC1000 under the fuselage.

 

 

 

[E69_Qpassa_VR]

Amazing job @LizLemon!

[Yogiflight]

2 hours ago, Semor76 said:

Nice Gimick for QMB missions/ single flights in Multiplayer. But more or less useless for everything else. Due to the missing AI routine code.

 

 

For multiplayer there could be done something, to make it interesting, but mainly in an organized event, like FNBF, so you can organize some players flying torpedobombers, attacking a ship convoy with few escort ships. Escorting fighters and fighters defending the convoy and you could get some epic fun mission.

[Deacon352nd]

This is a great mod, LizLemon.  I don't care if its historically correct or not.  It adds so many possibilities to mission making on all the maps but especially the Kuban.  Thanks for all your efforts and keep them coming.  Thanks again.

[CanadaOne]

The stock game allows you to fly planes in places they never were against targets they never would have seen. The idea that everything has to be historically correct is deader 'n Elvis.

[Nadelbaum]

Elvis is dead?!?

[CanadaOne]

Not in our hearts.

[jollyjack]

Nice one! Will try it ASAP.

 

Is this possible for a Russian plane? I'd love to blow up some of those nasty U-boats and save brave allied sailors lives.

[DetCord12B]

Outstanding work as always.

 

@LizLemon did you want me to re-texture the torpedo's for you?

Edited April 30, 2020 by DetCord12B

[Beebop]

2 hours ago, DetCord12B said:

Outstanding work as always.

 

@LizLemon did you want me to re-texture the torpedo's for you?

You could always do it for me.  ?

[jollyjack]

Jeez Mr (?) Lemon, hats off: this is great fun, just tried the mod in Stoopy's Kuban interactive .... it's more fun than just plain bombing.

It ain't easy but if you level out and aim for the sweet spot on even a fast moving destroyer it works quite well.

It's hard to get a He111 with two of your torpedos off the ground, and i wasn't able to fire the guns ... but i am probably not used to this He111 yet. Tips?

 

BTW this is what i liked in Pacific, sinking big Jap ships.

Now a torpedo mod for Allied planes? A 'Sink the Bismark" campaign comes to mind. That if Brest is on the Normandy map. Here's the music:

 

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by jollyjack

[Deacon352nd]

Can the torpedoes be assigned to AI He111's?  And if so, how do you get them to attack a cargo ship?

[Beebop]

2 hours ago, jollyjack said:

It's hard to get a He111 with two of your torpedos off the ground... but i am probably not used to this He111 yet. Tips?

Try 50% fuel.  Mileage in Great Battles almost equals the mileage I get these days in my car. 

As for the guns, I dunno.

[Yogiflight]

25 minutes ago, Beebop said:

2 hours ago, jollyjack said:

It's hard to get a He111 with two of your torpedos off the ground... but i am probably not used to this He111 yet. Tips?

Try 50% fuel.  Mileage in Great Battles almost equals the mileage I get these days in my car. 

As for the guns, I dunno.

Yep, I also used 50% of fuel, and lifted the rear at about 80km/h, to get better acceleration. For the guns, I told my gunner to shoot at ground targets and it worked. But the front gun has a quite limited firing angle. You might want to use the MG/FF for front and belly gunner, who was shooting, too.

 

57 minutes ago, Deacon352nd said:

Can the torpedoes be assigned to AI He111's?  And if so, how do you get them to attack a cargo ship?

Yes, you can assign them to AI, but the command 'Follow and do like I do' didn't work, when I tried it and with the command to attack ground targets on their own, they turned away and started to climb. Don't forget, AI think they are carrying two SC1000 bombs.

[jollyjack]

8 hours ago, Deacon352nd said:

Can the torpedoes be assigned to AI He111's?  And if so, how do you get them to attack a cargo ship?

 

You got to find the sweet spot for dropping, and try it out .......

that's the fun of it, and torpedos always move about 4x the speed of a ship, and these do that. And they just follow the route you planned, no automatic ship tracking LoL.

[DetCord12B]

12 hours ago, Beebop said:

You could always do it for me.  ?

 

That's up to him if he wants to include it.

 

Spoiler

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by DetCord12B

[Beebop]

My comment was completely tongue in cheek.

That torp does look nice! ?

[LizLemon]

On 4/30/2020 at 10:14 PM, DetCord12B said:

 

That's up to him if he wants to include it.

 

  Hide contents

 

 

Send me the texture. I'm trying to make the ship AA less accurate right now.