Artificial Intelligence (AI) should be improved before release of Normandy - Agree or Disagree

April 18, 2020

1 minute ago, Raven109 said:

That's not what the poll is asking.

"Artificial Intelligence (AI) should be improved before release of Normandy - Agree or Disagree:"

It's asking the users of this game whether they'd want the AI to be improved before BoN is released. As you can see, it doesn't ask whether we think that the devs can do it, or whether the devs should start tomorrow if more people Agree than Disagree.

The devs can look at this poll, see what their milestones are, see if they have the necessary resources, see what benefits they could get from a better AI long term (i.e more people buying the game in the future), compare this prediction to the prediction about profits from releasing BoN.. etc... no one is forcing them to do anything via a poll.

The devs don’t have to look at anything. THEY ALREADY HAVE AN AI PROGRAMMER WORKING TO IMPROVE THE AI. Problem solved.

April 18, 2020

2 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

The devs don’t have to look at anything. THEY ALREADY HAVE AN AI PROGRAMMER WORKING TO IMPROVE THE AI. Problem solved.

Ok... we can still say what we want via the poll, you keep quoting parts of what I say and ignore the rest. Did the devs hire you to speak for them? I assume not, so I don't understand why are you so busy talking about what the devs can and cannot do.

Anyway, I'll leave it at that... If the devs can't do what the people want, that's ok, but if they find a way, this poll shows what we want, no harm done in the end.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Raven109

April 18, 2020

5 minutes ago, Raven109 said:

you keep quoting parts of what I say and ignore the rest.

Here is the poll question:

1. Artificial Intelligence (AI) should be improved before release of Normandy - Agree or Disagree

They have an AI programmer. Assuming that the programmer is competent, the AI will be improved before the release of BoN. Period. If you’re commenting on anything else, then you’re just trying to distract from the fact that this is a ridiculous useless poll. Go ahead and waste your time responding to it.

April 18, 2020

Back in the 19th century, after one of the many conflicts that plagued central Europe, a treaty was signed which required a new border between Poland and the Russian Empire to be laid down. While the surveyors were trudging across the bleak central-European plain, carefully placing border markers after triangulation with compass and theodolite, they came across a dingy-looking peasant's hut. Slap bang on the border. This was clearly awkward, and after much head scratching they came to the conclusion that it would be better to move the border a few feet, so the hut was on one side or the other. But which side? Just as they were thinking about tossing a coin, a peasant opened the door of the hut, to see what all the fuss was about. The surveyors explained the problem, asking "which side of the border would you prefer to be, lowly peasant"? To which the peasant replied "I'd much rather be in Poland: Russian winters are much colder!"

The poll here is asking a similar question.

April 18, 2020

@Raven109 @Pericles Perhaps a more profound question would be "Do you want/are you hoping to see AI improvements before or at the final release of Normandy? My guess is sometime in 2021. But I mean, what are some of these AI improvements that you want to see done?

For argument sake one thing involving AI that I would like to see improved in pilots NOT bailing out when the engine quits, and at like 200 feet. In the game CFS3 once you reached a certain altitude, you couldn't bail out.

Some things that I'd like to see improved more are Radio Comms and Commands.

April 18, 2020

You can’t just say, I’d like it improved. They have an AI programmer. By definition, the AI will be improved. You have to be specific about what you think should be improved. If you think “make it like a good human player” is realistic and specific, they will just laugh at you. Ok, I will laugh at you. They will probably just ignore you.

April 18, 2020

AndyJWest wrote: "This whole thread is silly, since it seems to be based on the premise that things get done faster by making them 'priorities'. They don't. Getting things done faster involves making specific decisions based on the resources and information you have available."

Would you read this again, and confirm that you actually mean this? I'm not sure how a thinking person could write something so unintelligible and still believe it after re-reading and reflecting on it.

You are saying that setting priorities does not increase the rate of progress in those priorities. When someone sets an objective as a priority, if they truly believe that it is a priority, they will allocate more resources towards that priority so as to achieve that priority. That is what it means.

Here are some other highlights from this thread:

BraveSirRobin initially wrote: "The AI was improved with the last update. Problem solved!"

Raven109 wrote: "I.e., it's simple to say what needs to be improving: take a human player, define a series of behaviors, etc..." and "...this thread is not about how easy it is to implement AI."

BraveSirRobin replied: "I’m fully aware of that. And your response about how you’d like it be better really has nothing to do with how it could be better. It’s just silly grandstanding."

59 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

The devs don’t have to look at anything. THEY ALREADY HAVE AN AI PROGRAMMER WORKING TO IMPROVE THE AI. Problem solved.

12 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

You can’t just say, I’d like it improved. They have an AI programmer. By definition, the AI will be improved. You have to be specific about what you think should be improved. If you think “make it like a good human player” is realistic and specific, they will just laugh at you. Ok, I will laugh at you. They will probably just ignore you.

--

Ok, I'm checking out of this thread. My opinion and the "premise" of this poll are as clear as day, and will remain so to anyone with moderate intelligence. AndyJWest and BraveSirRobin, if you are thinking and writing in all honesty then I am sorry for your brains.

April 18, 2020

4 minutes ago, Pericles said:

BraveSirRobin, if you are thinking and writing in all honesty then I am sorry for your brains.

lol

Right back at ya...

April 18, 2020

I agree.

My issue with the Ace AI is that they will continually cross in front of you, giving you easy shots, and stay in front of you until you've shot them down or they've run far enough away you have to turn and they will come back around.

I setup a 109 G-4 against four p51s and they would continuously get on my six with easy shots, not shoot, then pull in front of me for an easy shot on them. I've taken some damage, but not once did they ever take me out of the fight the way a 4 v 1 should have. For comparison, RoF AI decimate me with only 2 aces.

The only thing the Ace AI does right is when their plane has a power advantage it stays fast.

In a 1v1 or 1v2, The Ace AI are really easy to put into an h.scissor and win because they wont pull the G's or maneuver to win it. They do sometimes run away.

The Ace AI in a p39 vs G-4 is sad. Even with a few snap / quick shots available to it, the AI refused to shoot, could have easily ended the fight for me and then is quickly tricked into letting me behind it as it turns a very slow turn which you easily keep up with using a small lag turn then come down on it with a lead turn and an easy shot because you don't have to lead it.

That being said, I'm glad they have a guy working on the AI. AI is tough. I can't even do A* pathfinding AI and that's your "Hello World" algorithm when it comes to AI.

April 19, 2020

1 hour ago, BraveSirRobin said:

You can’t just say, I’d like it improved. They have an AI programmer. By definition, the AI will be improved.

Again, the question is whether it will be improved before the release of BoN, not whether it will be improved at all. You are assuming that there will be a release of the improved AI before the release of BoN, that one dev can make substantial changes before BoN etc. Lots of assumptions.

April 19, 2020

Good grief guys, go read a book, take a walk outside, or do any number of other things instead of arguing here over something that has already been acknowledged by the developers as needing improvement and is being improved even now. They aren't stupid and are quite aware of where they can best focus their efforts.

April 19, 2020

2 hours ago, Raven109 said:

Again, the question is whether it will be improved before the release of BoN, not whether it will be improved at all. You are assuming that there will be a release of the improved AI before the release of BoN, that one dev can make substantial changes before BoN etc. Lots of assumptions.

Sweet Jesus. They have an AI programmer. The AI is being improved RIGHT NOW.

Since you obviously have no idea how development for this product works, I guess I have to add that BoN won't be released for at least 18 months. There will be at least 6 to 8 updates (possibly more) between now and then. And I'm not sure if I mentioned, but they're working on the AI RIGHT NOW. So it isn't really an outrageous assumption to say that the AI will be improved before BoN is released. In fact, it will be improved several times.

Edited April 19, 2020 by BraveSirRobin

April 19, 2020

All in all, this is a badly titled thread. It has the impression that it’s saying ‘Sorry devs, you can’t begin EA of BoN until you improve the AI; as well as, you can’t release patch 5.001 until the AI is improved.’ Therefore, spending additional resources on a random user’s suggestion.

I do think that the OP is trying to say, do you agree that AI should be improved during BON development.

3 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Sweet Jesus. They have an AI programmer. The AI is being improved RIGHT NOW.

Since you obviously have no idea how development for this product works, I guess I have to add that BoN won't be released for at least 18 months. There will be at least 6 to 8 updates (possibly more) between now and then. And I'm not sure if I mentioned, but they're working on the AI RIGHT NOW. So it isn't really an outrageous assumption to say that the AI will be improved before BoN is released. In fact, it will be improved several times.

Then how about you vote Yes, if you haven’t already. BTW, I haven’t voted yet.

April 21, 2020

AI should've been improved as of the day of the Bodenplatte release. It's career suffers the most from the poor AI. IMHO, but you can't call it a full release with a career like that. I've played several missions and when I return back, open the debriefing and look at my squadmates' performance. Well, this is a perfect description:

Spoiler

April 21, 2020

Well I think career itself have some blame in how AI work. I am flying coops with my mates twice a week and find ai to do what expected by them and opponent ai to do more than desired. They manage to take one of us every time we get bounced. We use Patrick Wilson generator.

There is a lot ai going to have to do, if missions are set a little wrong ( how waypoints are prioritized among other) you find ai to less adequate. It is not all to blame the ai code

April 25, 2020

During caree mision I saw 2 AI 109 planes chasing an L5 AI, one 109 succeeding in chooting the L5 while the other 109 behing the other 109 succeed in chooting down this 109.

Also the same situation but the 2 chasing planes colided together.

Compare to the COD one the IL2 GB's ace level in QM or caree is a piece of cake.

April 27, 2020

On 4/19/2020 at 3:28 AM, BraveSirRobin said:

Sweet Jesus. They have an AI programmer. The AI is being improved RIGHT NOW.

Since you obviously have no idea how development for this product works, I guess I have to add that BoN won't be released for at least 18 months. There will be at least 6 to 8 updates (possibly more) between now and then. And I'm not sure if I mentioned, but they're working on the AI RIGHT NOW. So it isn't really an outrageous assumption to say that the AI will be improved before BoN is released. In fact, it will be improved several times.

Thats great, because finally after 10y of complaining about the AI (from RoF until now BoN) the much needed action has been done. Because indeed the enemy AI behavior in fight could use some improvements. Not going to say this must be implemented before BoN. Only I would advice the devs for something to adjust this AI behavior, as you can do in WoFF, otherwise this AI discussion will keep on.

April 28, 2020

Yesterday I was flying that Yak-7, BoK mission; I crashed into a hill (at roughly level flight) due to loss of elevator control, and my wingmen followed me into the hill.

Just thought I’d point that out for an AI tweak.

Cheers.

May 9, 2020

Well yesterday flying Mustangs in a 352nd FG campaign I had a great bounce on Bf 109k's and 4 of my eight man unit decided to smash into the ground at different intervals during the dogfight. I don't see anything wrong with the AI at all... ?

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Artificial Intelligence (AI) should be improved before release of Normandy - Agree or Disagree