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56RAF_Talisman

Am I the only one?

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I am regularly at about 18,000 to 20,000 ft, spotting aircraft below and diving to bounce them.  Licking my lips I am looking forward to a good bounce, but what's this?  As I get closer, the aircraft I am diving on disappears from view!

 

(I am not using the zoom function, but it is a bit like in the zoom function bug, were if you zoom in the bogie disappears).

 

Any one else finding this problem?

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

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I don't dare that height, but in dogfight turns i got the feel that them boogiemen are not always marked right when you got them cheater arrows active ..

definitely different behavior than in version 3.001 etc times.

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No, you're not. Me and others in my squadron feel the same way. But that seems to be a more general problem. To be honest, that was the case long before the big visibility changes. Anyway, I think there are already some threads that deal with this topic and we can only wait.
Some time ago Petrovich apparently opened a thread on the Russian forum about it. And Jason mentioned it again, I think in his briefing room, and said that there won't be a short-term solution to this. Nevertheless I hope that we can expect another try this year. Or that the new deferred shading will possibly solve some of the problems.  

 

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Posted (edited)

Talisman if I remember correctly you as I do come from cod. That game had issues with spotting aswell. But with training you could spot and once spotted with focus you did not loose them. 
Here it is the same way, but on shorter distance 

and indeed you loose them when closer in special to the ground. 
ai notice your approach and change direction. If your opponent did not notice, you need to get behind him and lower in order to see him. 
so you need to see the direction he is flying before diving. 
If you do this and do not see him in front of you. You need to use that energi to get the hell out of there. This means he did see you and have the advantage. 

Edited by 216th_LuseKofte
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, 6FG_Big_Al said:

No, you're not. Me and others in my squadron feel the same way. But that seems to be a more general problem. To be honest, that was the case long before the big visibility changes. Anyway, I think there are already some threads that deal with this topic and we can only wait.
Some time ago Petrovich apparently opened a thread on the Russian forum about it. And Jason mentioned it again, I think in his briefing room, and said that there won't be a short-term solution to this. Nevertheless I hope that we can expect another try this year. Or that the new deferred shading will possibly solve some of the problems.  

 

 

I took a look in the Russian forum yesterday and apparently the plan is to investigate this once the DM revision is out. Think the DM change work has taken all available resources for some time.

 

(incidentally, the Russian forum is something else - makes this place look like a Sunday school picnic...)

 

Edited by kendo
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22 minutes ago, kendo said:

 

I took a look in the Russian forum yesterday and apparently the plan is to investigate this once the DM revision is out. Think the DM change work has taken all available resources for some time.

 

(incidentally, the Russian forum is something else - makes this place look like a Sunday school picnic...) 

thank you for the info 😄

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Ok, a little clarification, I read back over the Petrovich post that I was referring to above. There may be several different visibility issues so I'll put the translated text below, and provide a link to his post as well:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/13195-ответы-джейсона-на-вопросы-нашего-сообщества/?tab=comments#comment-760113

 

Quote

Concerning the visibility of contacts:

 

As you remember, Jason asked me to deal with this issue in my free time . I was surprised, of course,  : biggrin: but I accepted the task.

 

In a topic specially created back in December, I collected all the information I needed to assess the situation. Thanks to everyone who wrote there constructively and on business. Anyone else who floods the topic - keep up the good work. The more flood and offtopic - the faster the ru-forum will be closed. We are one step away from this decision.

 

Further.

The information was collected, now we need to deal with the causes of the problems. It takes time. I warned right away that you should not expect quick results from me.

 

Ever since I left vacation at the end of the January holidays, I have had two days off. Two. Who has already watched Maxim Savelyev’s video - how I spent my last day off - this is the face of a man who slept for three and a half hours before being pulled out to the airfield. Because on the night before I was preparing a beta for the next DM test, which you all probably read about. And the last 2 months, all my working time, 12-15 hours a day, is spent on this particular DM.

 

I hope that I answered the burning question why the "contact visibility problem" is still not being solved 

 

Now Jason, seeing that the situation with "visibility of contacts" does not move at all (which was expected), suggested allocating a separate time for several key employees to search for a solution. I am only glad about this. Probably, we will deal with this after the release of version 4.005, because until that moment all the forces of the team are now going to prepare this update.

 

PS

 

Yes, just in case, I’ll clarify that the problem of “invisible airplanes”, which Daniel spoke about, that I’ll deal with it after the release of 4.005, concerns “ghost” airplanes in multiplayer (which appear out of the blue), and not low visibility on middle distances. These are two different problems. And for the "ghosts" I already have a task in terms of.

 

ps ending of that last line correct - Google Translate 😉

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Thanks Kendo.  I presume the ghost aircraft appearing out of the blue might also cover why they disappear at middle distance too.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

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It has happened to me a handful of times just this weekend: flying in circles chasing friendly flak clouds and no planes in sight. chasing an enemy at medium - high altitudes that suddenly vanishes while i am looking at it, and then reappears 30 seconds later in the same spot. 

 

this is different than watching planes low against terrain appear and disappear at long range - that is easy to deal with. invisible planes that are close in proximity is a much bigger problem (in my opinion).

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16 minutes ago, QB.Creep said:

It has happened to me a handful of times just this weekend: flying in circles chasing friendly flak clouds and no planes in sight. chasing an enemy at medium - high altitudes that suddenly vanishes while i am looking at it, and then reappears 30 seconds later in the same spot. 

 

this is different than watching planes low against terrain appear and disappear at long range - that is easy to deal with. invisible planes that are close in proximity is a much bigger problem (in my opinion).

This^^^

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I’ve experienced exactly what you are describing a number of times.  You set yourself up perfectly, coming out of the sun, and then part way down they just vanish.  I’ve also seen the cases where you’re getting so close to the friendly flak that you’re in danger of being hit, but the target aircraft is just not visible.

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Other thing is that you could spot tracers at 7km of distance but can't see source of it, or you could spot something and as soon as you zoom in it disappears, but if you zoom out it appear again....

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Sounds like the solution is for some ever yielding forumites and server hosts to organize a reproduction session (phrasing) and try to see if we can find ways to reliably reproduce the problem. 

 

Thinking, maybe draft some newbies into flying ~straighy and level and do high altitude bounces on them in various network states? 

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Your not alone, and its realy frustrating, cant see way its gona get any better in long time.

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You are not the only one. I have the same issue and it kind of ruined MP for me. 

I can never see anyone and I have perfect eyesight, great monitor and PC.

It was not a problem before the changes in visibility, now the few times I join MP I leave frustrated because I cannot see anything.

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13 hours ago, CountZero said:

Your not alone, and its realy frustrating, cant see way its gona get any better in long time.

 

And yet in this very  thread it says devs have been assigned, data has been collected and work will commence after next (imminent) patch, reason for holdup was explained... Who knows if new graphics engine may help some aspects

 

Doom and gloom much? 😎

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, 56RAF_Talisman said:

I am regularly at about 18,000 to 20,000 ft, spotting aircraft below and diving to bounce them.  Licking my lips I am looking forward to a good bounce, but what's this?  As I get closer, the aircraft I am diving on disappears from view!

 

(I am not using the zoom function, but it is a bit like in the zoom function bug, were if you zoom in the bogie disappears).

 

Any one else finding this problem?

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

Processor: Intel Core i7-8700K Coffee Lake CPU, 6 Cores, 3.7 - 4.7GHz, overclocked 
Case: Fractal Design Define R6 Case - Black 
Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB Graphics Card 
CPU Cooler: Corsair Hydro H100x CPU Cooler  
Motherboard: Asus STRIX Z370-F GAMING
Memory: 32GB DDR4 3000MHz Memory (2 x 16GB Sticks) 
OS Drive: 1TB Samsung 970 EVO M.2 PCIe Solid State Drive 
Secondary Hard Drive: Seagate 2TB FireCuda SSHD Hybrid Drive  
Optical Drive: 24x DVD-RW Drive 
Power Supply: Corsair RM850x 80 PLUS Gold 850W PSU 
Sound Card: Onboard High Definition Audio 
Operating System: Windows 10 Home 64-bit 
Monitor Samsung 2433BW 24" TFT, 5ms response time, Res: 1920x1200
MS FF2 Joystick
Thrustmaster VG TWCS Throttle
Saitek Pro Flight Throttle Quadrant
MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals
VR Pimax 5k +
eDimensional AudioFX2 FF Vibration Headset 
Gametrix KW-908 Jetseat (with SSA and SSW software)

 

 

 

Yes its a known problem.

Edited by =VARP=Tvrdi
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34 minutes ago, Dakpilot said:

 

And yet in this very  thread it says devs have been assigned, data has been collected and work will commence after next (imminent) patch, reason for holdup was explained... Who knows if new graphics engine may help some aspects

 

Doom and gloom much? 😎

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

This

I have read a lot of this in DD they admitted the problem and have said it is no easy solution. 
Adding to the problem is budget and getting to pay the employees. 
I know for sure I would have gotten the bombers I wanted if there was a economical grounded task to do, still I annoy them by asking for it. 
They need to produce things they get payed for, still we are seeing huge improvements on stuff they found a way to improve. 
In all honesty they proven thay are willing to fix everything they can fix

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2 hours ago, Dakpilot said:

 

And yet in this very  thread it says devs have been assigned, data has been collected and work will commence after next (imminent) patch, reason for holdup was explained... Who knows if new graphics engine may help some aspects

 

Doom and gloom much? 😎

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

For problems not concerning contacts that you can clearly see from far but imposibly hard to see from mid ranges, that problem he dosent talk about.

And seing how they decided to fix 9,5km bubble range problem, by making it wors to spot contacts in mid range and going in extreme at long ranges (because thats realistic but we play on monitors so whats realistic then, playing blined? ) then before, i have low fait in this problem geting better or even devs understanding what players need from visability in flying game.

What they talk about fixing is airplane disapering at close range, and invisable airplane in MP that show up when he shoot or do any action, not about making it better to see contacts that are there but porly rendered at mid ranges. 

With their visability fixes, things go frm bad to worse when they insted just keep same and make bubble 15-20km decided to reinvent the wheel and screw things up more.

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There appears to be a bug/glitch that I am not able to consistently reproduce. Usually when I start the game and immediatle launch a Track with 2 He111s that are 12km away they are clearly visible and span some pixels. Now if I do a quick mission and run the track again (in many cases but not all) the render of the planes shows just single, very hard to make out, pixels. 

 

I suppose this is something that also happens during regular dogfights and online, so sometimes we get a supersize render and sometimes we are left in the blue, but I can't identify why.

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35 minutes ago, CountZero said:

For problems not concerning contacts that you can clearly see from far but imposibly hard to see from mid ranges, that problem he dosent talk about.

And seing how they decided to fix 9,5km bubble range problem, by making it wors to spot contacts in mid range and going in extreme at long ranges (because thats realistic but we play on monitors so whats realistic then, playing blined? ) then before, i have low fait in this problem geting better or even devs understanding what players need from visability in flying game.

What they talk about fixing is airplane disapering at close range, and invisable airplane in MP that show up when he shoot or do any action, not about making it better to see contacts that are there but porly rendered at mid ranges. 

With their visability fixes, things go frm bad to worse when they insted just keep same and make bubble 15-20km decided to reinvent the wheel and screw things up more.

 

He talks about it here (though you probably won't like it...) This post is linked to from the previous one I posted and pre-dates it (Dec 2019). Think it's safe to assume from this that they are at least aware of the issues. (And I swear this is the last time i link to posts from the Russian forum  🙂  )

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/12732-235-я-часть-дневников-разработчика/page/29/?tab=comments#comment-742527

 

Quote

On the issue of visibility.
As I wrote earlier, I do not do graphics in this project, I do not have such competencies. But being a person interested and involved, this question, of course, excites me. And since I got the authority from Jason to figure this out (though only in my free time and without interruption from the planned tasks), I will write in brief my current position.

What I observe on the forum is the most acute question of (un) visibility of contacts at medium distances, from several hundred meters to 1–2 km. Many users claim that this is a new problem, and it appeared after changes were made to the visibility system. On the other hand, from the guys from the team I know that those changes that were made in the game should not have technically affected the visibility of contacts at these distances. I fully admit the situation that the problem of the disappearance of close contacts was before, but just now everyone was talking loudly about it because we basically touched on the subject of visibility distances.

I am not a supporter of comparisons of screenshots with disappearing contacts on the background of the forest, and a video from the RD with a clearly distinguishable contact on the background of snow. You need to compare under the same observation conditions. It would be ideal to compare two versions of the game - before the changes and after the changes, on the tracks on which the contacts have now (supposedly) disappeared - and it is quite possible that they disappeared before. You can be confused by such experiments, but there is no great practical sense (except to prove or disprove something) in them. Because be that as it may, I agree that the aircraft at these distances should be distinguishable better than it does in our game. So you need to look for ways how to solve this problem, and not reflect on whether it got worse or it was all the same.

I can’t name the exact and unambiguous reasons why the plane becomes invisible (or even invisible) at medium distances. I have some assumptions, they need to be sorted and checked. For example, on a vskidka, I think that an increase (or rather a more complex change) in the density of the haze can have a significant effect here, making the plane more contrasted against the background of the underlying surface. And generally speaking, I believe that such a transparent atmosphere as in our game is less common in real life than a denser one. But the change in the density of the haze is a difficult question, it leads to a reconfiguration of the weather, the dome of the sky, it's not as simple as it might seem. Jason generally believes that the slider in the menu could be the best solution here, and I absolutely agree with him. But this is a very large and voluminous work, requiring the participation of several employees at once, and neither Jason nor I have an answer to the question of when it could be done. This means that this (possible) option of a “quick” solution to the problem of missing contacts is temporarily removed, and you need to look for others ...

Another sore problem - the disappearance of contacts on the background of clouds - is also in the focus of our attention. Part of the situation has already been improved in a previous update. We reduced the pixelation along the contour of the aircraft, it played a positive role at all distances, but most of all it became at short and medium distances. In addition, a bug was fixed when the planes, in principle, disappeared against the background of clouds at a distance of> 2 km (though it seems nobody noticed this). Yes, we are aware that the situation has not yet been completely resolved. Yes, I agree that for an aircraft simulator, this is an important element that affects gameplay. The good news is that work is being done in this direction, and there are ideas. But quick results will not be here, and as Jason said, you need to be patient.

There is also the problem of "switching" LODs, and changing the color / light on some aircraft and in some conditions. Here you need a list of planes and distances at which you notice it, I will give this list to 3D-modelers for verification.

I will not raise the issue of the visibility range of remote contacts now, I have already written enough on the forum on this topic before. In general, as I understand it, since the option "augmented visibility" was introduced in the menu, the passions have subsided. I saw complaints that even with the option turned OFF, artifacts with scaling the size of the planes are still noticeable, I’m not ready to answer now, I need to look.

Since I don’t have free time, all these proceedings are likely to drag out. For a long time. Who wants to help is a welcom. The only request is to write briefly. VERY concise and to the point. Theme I created . Do not forget that there are many of you, and I am alone, so for a "chat" it is better to choose another topic. :)

 

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1 hour ago, CountZero said:

 

i have low fait in this problem geting better or even devs understanding what players need from visability in flying game.

 

 

Good grief, we seem to have the most incompetent game devs in history, they neither understand or play their own game.. 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

A few weeks back I was flying cap while my squadmates attacked a fleet of ships.  I noticed a curious thing.  While zoomed out I could clearly see three small ships and two big ships all close together in a group.  When I zoomed in to the maximum possible, the big ships simply vanished while the three smaller ones remained.  Zooming out half way made the big ships re-appear and zooming in again made them disappear again.   

We are not talking 'fuzzy visibility' or ''camouflage' or 'visibility bubble' or 'Distant dots changing to a less visible outline' . We are talking about a graphics bug that makes objects that were very clearly visible a  one or two thousand metres away suddenly vanish from view.    

 

I also see Talismans bug where you see a white or black dot and dive to investigate but it suddenly vanishes without you using zoom but I assume that is something to do with the transition from 'dot'  to 'low pixel count object' 

Edited by 56RAF_Roblex

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3 minutes ago, Dakpilot said:

 

Good grief, we seem to have the most incompetent game devs in history, they neither understand or play their own game.. 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

 

 

 

Why would they have time to play in MP , and this is where complains come from, this is where its important to see other airplanes without glitches that you can not pay atention in SP vs all seing AI. If they dontz play in MP they dont understand it then and think oh ppl complain about visability, lets make it more harder to see contacts thats what they wont, they wont to not be able to see airplanes, thats solution.

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You didn't read that post above, did you?

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1 hour ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

While zoomed out I could clearly see three small ships and two big ships all close together in a group.  When I zoomed in to the maximum possible, the big ships simply vanished while the three smaller ones remained.  Zooming out half way made the big ships re-appear and zooming in again made them disappear again.

I noticed the same issue in War Thunder sim mode. Not sure if it happens in non-cockpit-view too. When not, maybe it has something to do with the cockpit glass, idk.

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Well they are on it. 
I never complained about it. Because it is known to the devs sunce the start.
You fighter jockeys sure are whining a lot. 
Imagine how it feel flying and climbing for an hour. In order to get the right direction for a perfect bomb run. Then seeing that the target you dropped on that looked complete all the way in the sight in fact was destroyed already. 
Because that is how it is 6 k up there. You see only damaged building right over it in zoom. 
other times buildings do not show up before it is too late. You have to drop by the map icons

I tolerate this because they are trying

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9 minutes ago, CountZero said:

 

Why would they have time to play in MP , and this is where complains come from, this is where its important to see other airplanes without glitches that you can not pay atention in SP vs all seing AI. If they dontz play in MP they dont understand it then and think oh ppl complain about visability, lets make it more harder to see contacts thats what they wont, they wont to not be able to see airplanes, thats solution.

 

Sounds like you're smoking your own socks dude, 

 

I would lay off it until after lock down, when you can get some fresh air. 

 

To be clear I think many of the Dev team including Jason have a long background in combat sim MP to think they don't understand MP and their own product is a bit insulting

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Dakpilot said:

 

Sounds like you're smoking your own socks dude, 

 

I would lay off it until after lock down, when you can get some fresh air. 

 

To be clear I think many of the Dev team including Jason have a long background in combat sim MP to think they don't understand MP and their own product is a bit insulting

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

 

Just wait and see how new DM fixes go on, again same thing like visability, problem that is most complained by MP players, and new DM will not adress that complaines as again its tested in SP. Waist of devs time for not any improvments to main complin about it. It will end up same as visability problem, wors then now, and they cant just do same things again and agin so theyl go do other things, so i dont expect visability to be fixed for long time, same with new DM when it comes to how badly it is in MP compared to SP.

 

 

Edited by CountZero

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I've addressed this issue many times. It's not so simple. Very complex issue and not all players see the same thing!

 

Jason

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